I have been looking at the last pictures that have been posted and I was wondering where the vents are for the fridge, heater, hot water? Are they running all 120V? The sides have no evidence of any covers for the vents, so I very interested into what they have done. The last two conversion pictures sure do look nice, I can only hope ours will look 1/2 as good.
what are we referencing here?
no vents...likely all electric
I'm also curious about venting. Mainly, I'd like to know how I can vent my cooktop exhaust (when I install it) without using a cheapo sidewall vent like campers use. I'd also like to find a way to vent a propane water heater installed in a bay that wouldn't look bad. It'd be nice to find something that uses a powered exhaust that could be vented a bit more discretely. Until then, I'll likely not vent the cooktop and use a roof mounted exhaust fan and an electric water heater.
David
My fridge is a 12 cu ft house electric but I use propane for the cooking, mostly.
I have no vents for either of those except to open the normal roof vent. Believe me, the house fridge can expel a whole bunch of heat into the bus.
However, I have come up with a plan! ;)
I had an Atwood 20K Btu RV furnace that I was gonna install to add heat to the bus, but decided I'm going to go a different route for that. I have removed the blower from the furnace and am mounting it above the house fridge and putting one vent out the top of the bus. The intake side will have a replaceable filter to catch dust and crud. On the side of the blower there is an access port where one of the old duct connectors will fit. I plan on ducting this over to the stove and putting an intake vent with a grease screen there. This way I can vent both fridge and stove through the same hole in the roof. At a future time I may add more ducting to vent a gas water heater or even the holding tank gases.
By putting a sliding cover over the fridge side of the intake I can allow the heat from the fridge to stay inside and help warm the bus in the winter.
OK, clear as mud?
Dallas
I did not want to have too many roof items-would have liked to have the three roof tops off, but on a transit you just don't have the room underneath for basement air. I have a Norcold 12v/120v compressor type reefer, electric water heaters, only a propane furnace vented out the side. On the roof is the 3 air conditioners, 2 Fantastic fans, and the crank up bat wing TV antenna. When I cook, I have a ventless hood that blows the air out into the inside, but with a Fantastic fan right above the stove, it eliminates the need for a side vent. Good Luck, TomC
The venting I was refering to was the exhaust vent for propane fired items like a water heater, furnace, and a fridge. I have a travel trailer that I use now and all of the above items have vents on either side or the back of the trailer. But looking at the picture of those conversions I see vents for any propane fired items, so I guess they must run most of them on 120V.
Lloyd
Personally don't have a propane water heater-they're noisy and use alot of gas. May I suggest you reconsider using an absorption type reefer-they're finicky and cost alot to buy and repair. I have had my Norcold 12v/120v reefer (pulls 5.5amps at 12v) for 12 years with no problems. As to venting the propane items, strongly suggest you mount and run them according to manufacturers instructions. Elimiates the possibility of fires or gasing caused by improper exhausting. Good Luck, TomC
Hi TomC,
How much personal experience do you have with RV propane water heaters and refrigerators? You make the statement "...propane water heater-they're noisy and use a lot of gas.", and "...absorption type-reefer-they're finicky and cost a lot to buy and repair." My personal experience of living in 2 travel trailers and our bus for months at a time, while working construction, over many years, has not been as you describe. The two trailer reefers were Dometic and the bus reefer is Norcold. All three water heaters are Atwood. I had no problems at all with the reefers or water heaters in the two trailers, all of which had standing pilots. I have had two problems with the bus reefer electronic ignition, both times the points had too large a gap and would not fire. The no cost repair was simply to adjust the points to the recomended 1/8" gap. The other problem was a broken latch on the door. The new latch cost less than $2 and was in stock at the first RV repair place I stopped at. The only problem with the electronic ignition bus water heater was when I left it on when driving with a strong crosswind and the safety link burned out from the flame being blown back into the area of the electronic ignition. That repair cost about $16. As far as using a lot of propane, on our last two and a half month trip, in 2005, we used one full 30 pound tank of propane and a small part of another as we were almost back home when the first tank was empty. That was using the stove, reefer and water heater all on gas. We both do Navy showers daily and cook most of our meals in the bus. We were in Williston, North Dakota, in the Williston Basin oil fields, when we had our propane tank refilled at $.99 a gallon, (30#= about 5 gallons), so I don't consider that too costly for the summer. Now, if you had mentioned that an RV propane furnace uses a lot of gas, I would agree.
Thanks, Sam 4106
Sam, my experience is very similar to yours as far as propane appliances goes. I spent many many years with stick and staple Motor homes with these appliances and never found that repairs were ever a problem and the propane usage was so negligible that I never even considered it an expense.
The one drawback with the propane refrigerator was that in very hot weather in the desert it would not keep things very cold. I generally kept an ice chest to store the beverages in so that the refrigerator did not have to be opened as often.
I also found that a small 5 inch fan mounted in the exhaust path of the refrigerator helped a great deal. It was on a thermostat so that it came on automatically if the temperature exceeded 100 degrees.
Richard
Quote from: Sam 4106 on June 11, 2007, 07:00:14 AM
Hi TomC,
How much personal experience do you have with RV propane water heaters and refrigerators? You make the statement "...propane water heater-they're noisy and use a lot of gas.", and "...absorption type-reefer-they're finicky and cost a lot to buy and repair." My personal experience of living in 2 travel trailers and our bus for months at a time, while working construction, over many years, has not been as you describe. The two trailer reefers were Dometic and the bus reefer is Norcold. All three water heaters are Atwood. I had no problems at all with the reefers or water heaters in the two trailers, all of which had standing pilots. I have had two problems with the bus reefer electronic ignition, both times the points had too large a gap and would not fire. The no cost repair was simply to adjust the points to the recomended 1/8" gap. The other problem was a broken latch on the door. The new latch cost less than $2 and was in stock at the first RV repair place I stopped at. The only problem with the electronic ignition bus water heater was when I left it on when driving with a strong crosswind and the safety link burned out from the flame being blown back into the area of the electronic ignition. That repair cost about $16. As far as using a lot of propane, on our last two and a half month trip, in 2005, we used one full 30 pound tank of propane and a small part of another as we were almost back home when the first tank was empty. That was using the stove, reefer and water heater all on gas. We both do Navy showers daily and cook most of our meals in the bus. We were in Williston, North Dakota, in the Williston Basin oil fields, when we had our propane tank refilled at $.99 a gallon, (30#= about 5 gallons), so I don't consider that too costly for the summer. Now, if you had mentioned that an RV propane furnace uses a lot of gas, I would agree.
Thanks, Sam 4106
Gentlemen- just going on my personal experience growing up with 4 S&S and experiences from other RV'r friends.
On the reefers- being in hot and humid southern summer weather and not having a cold box to the point of having to buy ice to help out; having to pull the reefer to "burp" it when it was off level a bit to much; having the propane flame blow out numerous times; not being able to control the coolness easily (on a compressor reefer you can tell when the reefer goes on and off, making it easy to adjust the thermostat when the temp is right-by just turning the knob when the temp is right warmer and hearing the compressor turn off when it is cold enough); had a friend have the boiler tubes crack in Alaska from the heaves in the road (think that was a pain trying to get a new reefer there?); and finally, just look behind Camping World at the pile of old reefers that have had to be replaced. When was the last time you had to replace a home reefer and how long did the previous reefer last?
As to water heaters- have had them flame up to the point of blackening the side; if the burner gets dirty, it can pop and back fire; they're noisy on the outside (been next to more than one S&S very clearly hearing it kick on).
I only have two propane appliances in my bus- the stove and furnace that are right next to each other with the propane tank directly below for the shortest gas line run possible, and have an electric solenoid to be able to shut keep the gas shut off except when in use. Also as an ex truck driver saw more than one RV burn to the ground because of a propane gas leak. Many reasons why I went with electric water heater and reefer. In the 12 years they have been in, have had zero problems with them (just draining the water heaters when I remember to do it, and virtually nothing with the reefer). I don't think anyone can say they have had zero problems with their propane absorption reefers or propane water heater in the last 12 years? Good Luck, TomC
I'll probably go with a compressor type of 'fridge. As to the water heater... I'd prefer a propane / elec. combo. Lots of places we camp have 30 amp outlets. 15K A/C + 1500 (or 2000) watt water heater doesn't leave much room for anything else. It's hot and humid here in the South in summer. I'll need most of my available watts for keeping cool, not heating water. Until I find an acceptable way to vent the water heater, I'll proably use an electric one, but not really by choice. Also, the recovery of a gas + electric is much higher than either one alone. One possible solution is a 19 gallon electric that has a 120 volt element. It'll take longer to heat the water, but at least it'll last longer. Another thought is two electric water heaters plumbed in series - the big one first, the smaller one last. One to hold lots of hot water and one to bring it back to temp when needed. It sure would take a long time to heat that 19 gallons of water, but at night, I can get by with one A/C. Also, it won't be too difficult to add a relay to disconnect the big water heater when the compressor kicks in. Of course, when on gen or 50 amp, it won't be an issue.
David
David- I have 2- 10gal water heaters in series with the final water heater wired through the inverter to have hot water going down the road during the day. They were bought from Home Depot, and the 1500 watt element is less than $30 (although I haven't had to replace one yet). Good Luck, TomC
My biggest concern with propane refers (even though I have one) comes from driving past Bob's RV Surplus in High Springs Fla. nearly every day.
There, visible from the road are countless burned out motor homes and trailers, the vast majority of which clearly started at the refer.
Len
QuoteThere, visible from the road are countless burned out motor homes and trailers, the vast majority of which clearly started at the refer.
I do not doubt this Len, but I find it strange that in my 50 plus years of camping and meeting thousands of people in the desert or at rallies or just on the road, I have never met a
single person that had a fire started by a reefer.
Richard
Quote from: TomC on June 11, 2007, 08:51:31 AM
David- I have 2- 10gal water heaters in series with the final water heater wired through the inverter to have hot water going down the road during the day. They were bought from Home Depot, and the 1500 watt element is less than $30 (although I haven't had to replace one yet). Good Luck, TomC
That's an idea. I don't have an inverter that large yet, unfortunately. An option is a 24 volt element around 1000 watts. I found some online last year, and they were direct replacements for the standard elements. A smallish dual element water heater would be great; I could run one element on 24 volts and the other on 110. I've got a 5 or 6 gallon heater that was given to me. It's a 2000 watt model, so it'll definitely recover fairly quickly, but the current draw will likely be too much. I'll probably end up switching it out for a 1500 watt and adding another water heater later.
David
Hi TomC,
I am glad to hear that your opinion about propane reefers and water heaters is based on actual experience and not just hearsay. I have heard those negative comments from several people who have had no personal experience at all. We all make our decisions based on our personal preference and the way we use our RVs. With the amount of boondocking we do I wouldn't want to be dependant on batteries for the reefer and hot water. In our area and on many of our trips in the north country we don't need A/C so we can go a long time without having to charge our batteries. Thanks for the response, I always enjoy reading your posts.
Best wishes, Sam 4106