I need a new entry door for my bus. A local welding shop wil do the job for me.
They have suggested buying a door with frame instead of having them fabricate a door. Is there any reason not to use a front entry door from a motorhome? Winnebago Surplus has a number of doors in stock.
Brian, According to the look you want to maintain on your bus there are several ways to do it. I just seen a transit with 2 regular house entry doors on it, looked ok. But you have a very nice bus and I would try and keep the same lines. I would have them fabricate a door frame and hang it then you can skin it and install the glass yourself saving you $$$$. You might be able to reuse the glass from your existing door. I think most rv doors don't have enough glass in them for the view you need for driving. Post a picture of your existing door both opened and closed and I will give you some better thought out advice on the new door.
Brian can't they just fabricate normal hinges for your existing door.
It is a big challenge fabricating a door from scratch. I would guess in the $1500 range to have it done! I did it, I watched someone who is a very talented fabrictor do it (Sojourner). If there is any way possible to use an existing door and frame, go for it. George Meyers installed 2 RV type doors and frames on his RTS and it looked fine. You want to use the door and frame.
I also saw a bus with an opening cut and a house entry door installed, looked like poop.
The existing door is not well enough built to add hinges to it. Most of the folks who have looked at it just say to put in a new door either custom built or an RV door. The existing door is also way too tall and is twisted due to problems with it closing.
The quote I got for a custom door is $2195 not including windows. If I provide a door with frame they will do it for $900. Another guy didn't really want to do it, but said he charges $3500 just to build a custom door.
I am not looking at one of those cheesy RV doors like you see on a cheap travel trailer or 5th wheel. The door I am looking at is a real nice door like you see on a $150,000 diesel pusher. And no, there is no way I will use a house door!
I think $2195 for the door isn't bad, but having to buy windows seperate add a lot to the cost if I have to custom order them.
I don't think that is too bad of a price, providing they do the job right the first time...or stand behind the work.
I'll do it for $1595 w/ window and stand behind it. Way behind it ;D
I have an AMGeneral Transit that the walls have three slight angles to them. I kept both the doors, since the rear goes directly into my bathroom.
For doors, I removed the air powered bifold doors and took it down to the metal frame. I then framed it in with 1x3 kiln dried fir strips screwed into the metal frame. Then measured the interior opening of the door and had two custom RV type foam cored doors made. The front has a large clear window at top and a clear view window at the bottom with a fish eye decal for blind spot. The rear door has a frosted single window, non opening-but would have it opening if do it again for the bathroom. Both doors have screen doors. When the doors came, I simply screwed them into the wood frame and made an aluminum piece for the top rounded corners (look better than squared corners). They are slightly in from the side, and protrude slightly at the top and is even at the bottom. Also had them painted to match the bus. Personally, I thought they wouldn't last. But they've been on since 1996 with no problems, except keeping the screws tight (any door though). I have the normal combination lock and dead bolt RV lock, and am completely pleased with it. If I remember right, it was about $1600 for the two. Good Luck, TomC
It seems the only reason not to use a motorhome door would be looks.
I would like to do a custom door, but extra money for windows and time to get windows is a concern. I'll probably end up with a motorhome door unless I can find someone to create a customer door for a bit less than the price I got already.
(George Meyers installed 2 RV type doors and frames on his RTS and it looked fine.)
George Meyers is not a fine looking RTS. His bus is a Gillig which has straight sides and can accomodate the RV type doors.
Jim G. - 1979 RTS-II
Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
Quote from: belfert on June 08, 2007, 05:34:23 PM
It seems the only reason not to use a motorhome door would be looks.
I would like to do a custom door, but extra money for windows and time to get windows is a concern. I'll probably end up with a motorhome door unless I can find someone to create a customer door for a bit less than the price I got already.
Is the side of your bus straight? If you put a straight edge from the bottom to the top and there is a crown at the midpint, like on MCI's, even a high dollar door will look like real bad. They will have to build out either the top, bottom or both to fit the flat door in the crowned opening. You'll have an RV door + $500 or so to jury rig it to your bus and in the end, that's what it will look like. It should cost $2000 or less to have a door made from scratch. If you can't afford it now, I would wait...or convert the air motors on your existing door to electric. That wouldn't be hard to do.
BTW...The doors are pretty much all the same from a 30K 5th wheel to a 150K Monaco. Aluminum with a foam core. The 150K Monaco just has a nicer paint job.
Ross
Quote from: Ross on June 09, 2007, 03:33:18 PM
Is the side of your bus straight? If you put a straight edge from the bottom to the top and there is a crown at the midpint, like on MCI's, even a high dollar door will look like real bad. They will have to build out either the top, bottom or both to fit the flat door in the crowned opening. You'll have an RV door + $500 or so to jury rig it to your bus and in the end, that's what it will look like. It should cost $2000 or less to have a door made from scratch. If you can't afford it now, I would wait...or convert the air motors on your existing door to electric. That wouldn't be hard to do.
The side of the bus is not straight. It goes up about 4 feet straight and then angles in a few degrees at that point.
I don't believe anyone who I've talked to about a custom door intended to do anything but a flat door. The angle in the side is one of the reasons why it is hard to reuse the current door because someobody can't just throw a piano hinge or similiar on there.
The hinge does not have to go the full length of the door.
Quote from: jjrbus on June 09, 2007, 06:30:14 PM
The hinge does not have to go the full length of the door.
Exactly. MCI's, at least the older ones, are hinged at the bottom and in the middle where the walls 'tilt' inwards a few degrees. I've seen pics of where people have made single doors for the RTS to replace the split doors. I'm sure that wouldn't be a whole lot more difficult than making one for your bus, or modifying what you have now.
David
Quote from: jjrbus on June 09, 2007, 06:30:14 PM
The hinge does not have to go the full length of the door.
The door is something like 108" tall. Would a single hinge that can only go up 48" work okay? I'm not sure how the door could be secured at the top since it is so tall and it isn't very structurally strong.
I'm open to suggestions as I'm not a metalworker.
So add some steel to the existing door to beef it up. Hinge it along the bottom half. Leave your windows in and skin it well.
It'll be fine.
You could even modify the upper part so it closes like a safe door, with protruding knobs along the hinged edge that fit
into matching recesses in the frame when it's closed. That way the suction can't pull the top outward.
Here is a door fabricated for an Eagle by Sojourner,the Exulted Grand Master of master fabricators. The door is 92 inch tall with a 45 inch heavy duty stainless hinge.. The material, glass, lock, hinge, paying to have things formed at fabricating shop comes to about $1000.
Some options you may have are adding metal to existing door to strengthen. A large piece of glass put in with adhesive will also strengthen door. Adding a 2nd latch at top of door or reducing the height of the opening. Reducing the height would be my first choice if possible. HTH Jim
QuoteYou could even modify the upper part so it closes like a safe door, with protruding knobs along the hinged edge that fit
into matching recesses in the frame when it's closed. That way the suction can't pull the top outward.
Now there is a true engineer thinking outside the box, in my opinion. Great idea, Gumpy.
Richard
Thanks Richard. I've been thinking about that for awhile, for a couple of reasons.
It would probably only take one nub towards the top to keep it from pulling out.
Now, if you're really interested in security, you could install several slide bolts like they do in bank vaults ;)
Hello.
The newer MCI E and J models have an air powered wedge lock at the top of the entrance door to pull the seals tight against wind noise.
In the older ones, it was mid way up the opening side, where a door catch would conventionally be located.
Something else to add to the creativity!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Another issue that can probably be overcome for reusing the existing door is the glass is near impossible to remove. The window glass rubber is at least an inch thick. I had an auto glass guy try to pop the glass out and he gave up because he was afraid he would break it. I also wasn't sure I could get a seal if needed. I wanted the glass and rubber seal out so I could remove the fiberglass door skin on the inside which goes under the rubber seal. (I no longer care if the fiberglass is broken or not.)
I think maybe I'll talk to Craig about bringing the bus over for him to look at the door and offer some advice.
I really care that I have a functional door. I don't care so much if the door matches the lines of the bus exactly.
here's a pic of my door, less than $300 and about 5 hrs to build. all steel construction. once I get it skinned, (when I find a good deal on some stainless) it'll look stock. seals up tight so there is no wind noise. I'm pretty happy with it so far.
I wouldn't recommend using piano hinge though. It's just too crappy. get a couple heavy duty marine hinges. I'll probably cut the piano hinge off this door and use better hinges when I find what I want.
Very nice job. Great workmanship! We have a very large piano hinge on our Eagle, works great for us. We have a small vertical glass section for seeing down low outside for close encounters.
Happy Trails,
Paul
Dreamscape
I ended up going with an RV door as I have almost zero metalworking skills. My job is more complex as the opening needed to be reframed.
I supposed to get my bus back this evening. Total cost will be about $1100 to purchase an RV door and get it installed.
Quote from: belfert on July 31, 2007, 02:50:27 PM
I ended up going with an RV door as I have almost zero metalworking skills. My job is more complex as the opening needed to be reframed.
I supposed to get my bus back this evening. Total cost will be about $1100 to purchase an RV door and get it installed.
PICTURES! PICTURES! PICTURES!
We wanna see pictures!
;D BK ;D
did I mention we'd like to see some pictures?
I, for one, am incensed! To put a door from an S&S is tantamount to puttin' a screen door on a submarine! Just kidding.
Dennis
I can't take pictures of something that doesn't exist. My bus isn't back yet. Supposed to be back in an hour, but my camera batteries are dead. I need to find the charger.
Quote from: belfert on July 31, 2007, 05:08:44 PM
I can't take pictures of something that doesn't exist. My bus isn't back yet. Supposed to be back in an hour, but my camera batteries are dead. I need to find the charger.
Shhhh.... Brian's just buying some time on the BBS here, since he's not quite happy with the job. Don't tell him, but I snuck over and took this pic of his new door on his Dina...
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Buffalo SpaceShip on July 31, 2007, 05:20:09 PM
Quote from: belfert on July 31, 2007, 05:08:44 PM
I can't take pictures of something that doesn't exist. My bus isn't back yet. Supposed to be back in an hour, but my camera batteries are dead. I need to find the charger.
Shhhh.... Brian's just buying some time on the BBS here, since he's not quite happy with the job. Don't tell him, but I snuck over and took this pic of his new door on his Dina...
;D ;D ;D
That's a damn fine lookin' door ya got there Brian!
Dallas,
Not only is it a "fine door"
Look at the craftsmanship and planning.
When was the last time if ever you saw a Dutch door on the entry of a bus?
Also, the door saving, hinge it to swing in and avoid taking it off on a fire hydrant feature!
Very Cool! LOL
Cliff
Geez, Brian has pictures of everything!
I'm starting to get a bit ticked that my bus isn't here yet. I was told at 7 pm he was on his way to deliver it and it takes less than 45 minutes from where the shop is. (it is 8:15 pm here.) It is starting to get dark and it is very difficult to back the bus in when it is dark. (He offered to drive it back because he cancelled three appointments for me to pick it up.)
I found the battery charger for the camera and should be able to take a picture of the door tomorrow.
Yep, that's a door from an S&S...I'd recognize it anywhere. TEE HEE!
Dennis
Quote from: belfert on July 31, 2007, 05:08:44 PM
I can't take pictures of something that doesn't exist. My bus isn't back yet. Supposed to be back in an hour, but my camera batteries are dead. I need to find the charger.
Buy some you ;D tight wad! ;D ;D LOL! ;D If I had your ;D
$;D I'd use mine to start a fire! LOL! Brian I know you can buy'm shoot I broke down and bought a brand new (outdated digital camera tonight myself!!) LOL!
BK, I don't have any $$. I spent it all on my bus. I did get the camera batteries charged up.
The bad news is the guy working on the bus wanted me to meet him at his other shop near my house. He said he had some minor fixes to do on the bus before he gave it to me. It needed a LOT more than minor work! The door was not even riveted in fully and he didn't even have the correct rivets!
He shouldn't have told me the bus was ready to pick up when it wasn't even close to being ready! The good news is that everything looked real good. So, I might not have the bus for a few more days.
Good to hear that he didn't butcher it and it looks good.
Ron
Brian,
How did the door turnout?
Got Pics?
Cliff
I still don't have the bus back yet!
I went over to the guy's shop and looked at it this evening and he was busy finishing things up. He was not happy with how it turned out last week and so he ripped it all apart and reskinned it. He was going to use some cheap rivets, but he was good enough to order the same rivets I used.
It will be back at my house Saturday no matter what. I have keys for the new door and ignition keys and I will go get it if necessary. I need to start working on the bus to have it ready for my trip in late September.
Sounds good he has the integrity to make sure its done right, or at least to his satifaction. Better it takes longer - although I guess that's pretty frustrating for you!
Quote from: H3Jim on August 02, 2007, 09:38:02 PM
Sounds good he has the integrity to make sure its done right, or at least to his satifaction. Better it takes longer - although I guess that's pretty frustrating for you!
The most frustrating part has actually been a lack of communication from the guy. If he would simply call me and give me an update I would be a lot happier.
He made several promises that he was going to deliver the bus on at a certain time on a certain day and never showed up.
belfert, If he is doing quality work, that's what you really want. Sometimes a guy gets busy and forgets a few things. I understand communication is important, hopefully all will turn out as you want. Hang in there, you don't want to rush him and do a crappy job.
Paul
I must apologize that I have not taken a picture of my new entry door yet.
I did not get the bus back from the fabricator until about 9 PM Friday night. He needs to come back for some final work and has not asked for any money yet at least.
Quote from: belfert on August 05, 2007, 03:46:38 PM
I must apologize that I have not taken a picture of my new entry door yet.
I did not get the bus back from the fabricator until about 9 PM Friday night. He needs to come back for some final work and has not asked for any money yet at least.
How about now? Got pics?
Jay
87 SaftLiner
PICS ! We want PICS! Scotty said HE WANTS PICS! ;D BK ;D
I completely forgot about taking pictures. The bus has been back at my house for just over a week.
I will try to remember to take pictures on Tuesday. I have a digital camera, but I very rarely take pictures as I never look at them if I do spend time taking them.
I be after you are done with the bus, (if you ever get there) you will cherish haveing pictures of the process. I have taken quite a few of mine, and every once and a while I look at tehm, and really wish I had taken more. Its fun to see the progress.
do yourself a favor, get a digital camera and take lots of them.
I have had a digital camera for about 7 years, but I just never take any photos. Most of the time the NiMH batteries are dead when I want to use it as they self discharge. One of the issues is I need a new Smart Media card as mine is 16MB and fills up in no time. Smart Media cards are hard to find except online and not real cheap.
Yes, I probably should take more photos so I remember how I did everything for future repairs or changes, but I haven't so far.
When's the last time ou looked at memeory prices? they fall like bricks after a short time.
I have NiMH batterys, two sets, one is in the charger, the other the camera. And they make them much beter than they used to, almost twice the capacity of 4 years ago.
The cheapest Smartmedia cards are still $40 to $50 for 64mb or 128mb. SD cards are practically free at that size. Smartmedia never caught on. I would almost be better off with a new camera. It would cost more than the memory, but also do more.
I actually have two sets of NiMH batteries if I could find the other set. The camera uses AA batteries, but it came with the NiMH AA batteries and charger. The manual says to use the NiMH as alkaline won't last long.
Maybe put that camera on the e-place and get a fresh one?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
4 years ago I bought some AA NiMh bateries, and they were 1600 mAhours. the ones you get now are 2400 or 2500 mAhours. Big increase in capacity, same size and general type.
My issue with the NiMH batteries is not how long they last in the camera, but rather how long they last sitting. Every time I actually want to use my camera the batteries are dead due to self discharge.
Quote from: belfert on August 13, 2007, 06:43:18 PM
I actually have two sets of NiMH batteries if I could find the other set. The camera uses AA batteries, but it came with the NiMH AA batteries and charger. The manual says to use the NiMH as alkaline won't last long.
You could always take a couple of AAs out of your TV remote long enough to get a few pics to post. If you don't watch TV, certainly there are other devices in your home that use AAs.
Personally, I have pics from 45 minutes after I made the deal on my coach, as well as pics of EVERY stage of tear down/prep/construction, from every angle...well over 1000...they have already come in very handy.
Jay
87 SaftLiner
Quote from: belfert on August 14, 2007, 04:37:23 AM
My issue with the NiMH batteries is not how long they last in the camera, but rather how long they last sitting. Every time I actually want to use my camera the batteries are dead due to self discharge.
If you don't like the NiMH, and you only take photos infrequently, just buy some fresh Alkaline batteries, (NOT from the dollar Store), and keep them around for when you do want them.
They will stay fresh for years, with very little degradation. I have both NiMH and Alkaline for my camera and I can get around 100 photos with the Alkaline. The NiMH will give me around 400 to 800 depending on my settings.
Speaking of settings, with your 16Mb card, you can change your image size and dramatically increase the number of pictures you get.
Oh well, do it your way. But you will at some time want some documentation of what you've done with before and after shots.
Quote from: H3Jim on August 13, 2007, 10:42:10 PM
4 years ago I bought some AA NiMh bateries, and they were 1600 mAhours. the ones you get now are 2400 or 2500 mAhours. Big increase in capacity, same size and general type.
I buy rechargeable NiMh batteries at Harbor Freight every time they put them on sale. The original price is cheap but I get them on sale for under $4 for a 4 pack of AAs. I also keep AAAs around. The HF batteries are 2000mAh and I have been sucessfully using them for years. I have a bucket of about 30 batteries, and two chargers going all the time.
I take all of my photos at 640x480 and I get about 100 photos on the 16MB card. The full resolution only nets me 16 photos on the card.
I just don't do photos regardless if I had the world's best camera or now. Don't know why, but I just don't.
I hate NiMH batteries! I just recharged them last week and they are dead already! (I'll admit they may not have charged fully last week.)
I actually went outside to take the photos I promised yesterday and the darn camera shut off after less than 30 seconds. Time to start looking for a new camera I guess. (I have nice lithium AAs, but saving those for the GPS for the bus.)
Brian,
NiMH batteries are actually well suited for digital cameras. In fact, Pentax strongly recommends them for use in my DSLR and Canon does the same for my 2 year-old Powershot. NiMH batteries need to be kept charged if they're going to sit for a long time. After a numerous long periods of not being kept charged, they don't work properly. You also have a 7 year old camera. Most cameras that old are not as efficient as newer ones. You'd do better to use Lithium or even alkaline batteries, as your camera use is 'atypical'. FWIW, I got over 330 pictures with flash and LCD display before my Canon's battery meter showed any drop. My Pentax does better than that. I think 12 AA NiMH batteries and a 1-hour charger cost me around $20. I can charge the batteries from a cigarette lighter, too. I keep one set in each camera and one set in the charger, and I've not had a problem with batteries. I take my pics at max resolution (5.1 mp on the Canon and 6.1 with the Pentax). On a 512mb card, I get several hundred pics... twice that on a 1gb card. I believe the last gig SD card I bought was less than $25. www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html (http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html) has lots of camera info and reviews, if you're considering buying a new camera.
David
Brian, I hate to admit it, but it sounds like its time for a new camera. All that David says is true. I get 600 pictures on my card, and its just not that expensive. I have had the NiMh batteries in my camera now for well over a month and 100 pics and no sign they are diminshed. I have another set in the charger ready to go when they do finally get low.
My cell phone has 1.3MP digital camera capabilities, Our old Kodak DC210 only had 1.2MP or something like that.
The Kodak did have an optical zoom, which the cell phone doesn't, but the lens in the cell phone is a much better Carl Zies lens.
Our Sony camera has 6.1MP and a 5X optical zoom with lot's of bells and whistles and cost less than the cell phone or the Kodak.
Dallas
I've taken a bunch of pics of my bus as I was building it.
Before I installed the paneling on the ceiling or a wall I measured how far any wiring was from corners, floors etc and wrote the dimensions next to the wire and snapped a picture. Ditto for studs and plumbing. That way I can look back and determine where everything in the wall is located.
Came in handy when I hung a shelf over the kitchen sink before my last trip.
Jason Whitaker
4104