Just have a question about using your bus if your unit does not have a generator or any AC units other then the original bus equipment. I recall when I drove a stage coach back a million years ago, when it got hot we would leave the coach run 24 hours a day to help keep it cooled for customers. I do not think that would go over well at a campsite or RV park.
Any input on what some options could be may help.
Unless it gets higher than the low to mid 80s screens on most of the windows with three roof vents open suffices. Otherwise the roof air will come on with the genny or if otr with the inverter is our approach.
Split unit ac's an inveter and lots of batteries.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on October 18, 2023, 07:37:48 AM
Split unit ac's an inveter and lots of batteries.
Dittos, mini split and batteries.
Don't let these guys tell you a 12,000 btu mini split with batteries is going to replace a 64,000 btu AC unit on a bus, it doesn't happen in the real world, I know people with $20,000 worth of Battle Born batteries ,2 inverters,3- 9,000 btu mini splits and solar that fight the heat lol they think they are in heaven in + 100 degrees if they get the temp down to 85 degrees
Quote from: luvrbus on October 18, 2023, 01:21:49 PM
Don't let these guys tell you a 12,000 btu mini split with batteries is going to replace a 64,000 btu AC unit on a bus, it doesn't happen in the real world, I know people with $20,000 worth of Battle Born batteries ,2 inverters,3- 9,000 btu mini splits and solar that fight the heat lol they think they in heaven in + 100 degrees if they get the temp down to 85 degrees
Yep. I did a calculation and quickly determined to simply run a 240v mini split unit. No way was solar going to cool the bus sufficiently or economically. It will kill the battery bank.
I have a 10k generator for the air conditioning if I can't get 240. Also, a transformer is probably more affordable than two inverters.
I realize the 120v systems can work, but they're just taking the edge off.
For cold months, I have a wood stove if I can't get 240v.
I have 3 low profile roof ACs, 15K unit over drivers seat, a 13.5K over the kitchen and a 13.5K over the bedroom with a heatstrip, no heat pump for me. I live in the desert with 100°s throughout the summer and 20s and 30° days in the winter. Propane heater in the living room/kitchen and the bedroom has one of the new Chinese Diesel heaters. Every thing is driven by pole power or my 13.5K diesel generator fed through my diesel engine tank...
64,000 btu AC unit on a bus Who said they had that?
Quote from: Dave5Cs on October 19, 2023, 07:50:10 AM
64,000 btu AC unit on a bus Who said they had that?
All those buses with factory air are 64,000 to 105,000 btu AC and heat and hard as hell to replace. With add on units,factory conversions like Marathon almost all have at least 60,000 BTU on the roof, 3 roof tops on the S&S RV has 45,000 btu
I think the DL is 93K btu.
So, first step is to park in the shade. Somehow. Even if it's a suspended tarp.
Next is massive air circulation. If there is no breeze, how about rigging a solar chimney? Shouldn't be that hard to do and they can generate pretty good airflow if done right.
In dry climates a swamp cooler is a bonus, also not too hard to rig. In humid climates park near water and take a dip in the crik. Except in Florida. Gators ya know.
Jim
If push comes to shove, you can always find a roadside motel.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and calculations. So what I think I am hearing is, throw about $15,000.00 worth of generator and AC parts at it would be helpful. "NO MORE HEAT"
To start out who has a nice diesel generator laying around?
I love coming to this forum and reading up on all the items covered by this group, you are some smart Bus people :^ :^ :^
Hello,You've heard some quite large numbers and they may be reasonable for those busnuts who need AC on demand and fully capable in 100 plus days. Before deciding you need $15k to achieve YOUR cooling needs, first establish your use patterns then determine capacity and other cooling specs. Same goes with cold weather conditions and heating requirements and specs.
A few key considerations and factors to include in your calculations are where do you travel? How many days do you expect to be where cooling is required? If you live in northern climates and travel in those zones, you probably do not need much capacity. On the other hand, if you spend many days in Arizona, Texas, or the humid south then you likely need more cooling.
How much cooling depends on a number of factors. How insulated your bus impacts how much cooling is required and the difference can be substantial. How much of the coach needs cooling at the same time? Cooling different parts of the bus at different times impacts how much energy you need on demand. For example, we keep the front cool during the day, then switch to the rear if required later in the day and evening. If we needed to cool the entire bus then that's double the capacity needed.
No pole or generator AC, what about solar? There are numerous working systems running on solar and lithium batteries. Mini-splits consume less energy than regular rooftops. Having a system that powers a single mini-split is quite achievable today and costs are coming down all the time.
My recommendation is to do more research, especially solar/lithium systems, do the work to calculate your energy needs on a daily and hourly basis that will help derive specs for systems that do what you want and need.
I don't know where you live but I'm debating whether to sell off my diesel generator and sub in a smaller portable as a backup when extended low solar days are not able to maintain adequate SOC (state of charge).
I was surprised at the flurry of answers. My first question was going to be what do you have? Or are you looking at a bus that has nothing but over the road air?
I have a bus with a big genny and 2 roof airs, but also have a wife that likes to go pole to pole at campgrounds so don't really need a genny. If you are solo in your life, I'd think hard about what Don said as far as where will you be going? Full timing it or a few trips a year? Might not need to spend 15K if you stay away from Yuma in the summer.
So...back to what do you have and what does it have now?
My idea which I have yet to implement is to chase 70 degree weather around the country.
Also my solar battery setup is run 30000 BTU of AC four or five hours a day at the most.
I do understand all the AC on the million dollar plus rigs and they will be used in the middle of the summer in the deep humid south.
I was in Brownsville TX to see the SpaceX launch and I was definitely in a RV park drawing shore power and as I was headed home in late May via Wyoming I parked overnight in RV parks to draw shore power to run AC at night.
I did notice the RV parks got more expensive the further north I got...
Quote from: windtrader on October 19, 2023, 03:02:39 PM
I don't know where you live but I'm debating whether to sell off my diesel generator and sub in a smaller portable as a backup when extended low solar days are not able to maintain adequate SOC (state of charge).
Don -Might want to re-think selling your genset. Most of the small portables are contractor units, which translate into noise. Exception being the Honda units - but either way, now you're having to carry another type of fuel.
Last winter one night when it was in the low teens, we had a power failure in the RV park I'm at. I went out, unplugged the umbilical cord, then fired up the genset, since my coach is all-electric. Burned three or four gallons of diesel, but stayed nice and toasty inside from my four electric heaters - as well as keeping the electric heaters in the baggage bays doing their thing. No way would a solar system have been able to do that overnight in freezing weather. Extreme? Yes, but as far as I'm concerned, it's better to have it and not always need it than to need it an not have the option.
IF not for you, but perhaps for someone who buys your coach later?
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
RJ
Quote from: Satelliteguy on October 17, 2023, 10:07:25 AM
Just have a question about using your bus if your unit does not have a generator or any AC units other then the original bus equipment. I recall when I drove a stage coach back a million years ago, when it got hot we would leave the coach run 24 hours a day to help keep it cooled for customers. I do not think that would go over well at a campsite or RV park.
Any input on what some options could be may help.
It is going to depend on how you plan to use the bus,you will get all kinds of answers ,Freds has it right follow the 70 degrees lol here we are close to the end of October and I have visitors with 4 buses plugged in staying cool in the afternoon, the nights are nice and cool no AC needed. When setting on the side of road for 2 days in the desert heat waiting on a tow truck believe it a generator is a wonderful piece of equipment BTDT in El Paso one year in July
We like that term "chasing 70 degrees", hence the reason to want to dual resident in FL & AK. It's phenomenal how similar a FL winter and an AK summer are. In fact the AK summer is a tad bit cooler - especially at night. A great combination except for the distance thus looking to fly instead in coming years. Already got a place & transportation on both ends.
Dan, I wonder how the gulf coast or S. Carolina and the north side of the great lakes might work out for that?
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on October 20, 2023, 09:23:18 AM
Dan, I wonder how the gulf coast or S. Carolina and the north side of the great lakes might work out for that?
Jim
It will work carry good rain gear and a 20 gauge to kill the mosquitos and you will be fine ,S Carolina or the Gulf of Mexico won't work for you 8) humdity
No? How about the mountains for summer and down in Georgia somewheres?
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on October 20, 2023, 10:22:50 AM
No? How about the mountains for summer and down in Georgia somewheres? even in Tennessee humidity is a killer
Jim
Took me a while till I started reading the weather maps and the humidity belt then I stayed away from those places,I grew up on the Gulf Coast and humidity can suck
Yeah, but I LIKE humidity.
Jim
Quote from: Satelliteguy on October 17, 2023, 10:07:25 AM
Just have a question about using your bus if your unit does not have a generator or any AC units other then the original bus equipment. I recall when I drove a stage coach back a million years ago, when it got hot we would leave the coach run 24 hours a day to help keep it cooled for customers. I do not think that would go over well at a campsite or RV park.
Any input on what some options could be may help.
Buy an already converted bus, you'll be further ahead. With as many coaches on the market now it is a wasted effort to build a seated coach from scratch. Unless you are looking for that mobil meth lab look lol! In any event you will need electricity. Solar needs sun, Shore cord needs a pole and when all else fails, a generator. Save yer dough for updates and upgrades. You never hear the horror stories here on failed attempts of newbies and novices who were overwelmed and just gave up. Wasted time, wasted money and dreams that dried up and blew away. Best of luck in your endeavors!
All it takes is$$$$
Choose wisely😉
Gulf coast humidity is not present in the winter months as the predominant winds are out of the NW. As for summer months it can get in the high 90s to 100s as far north as Winnipeg. When Alaska interior gets in the low 80s in July people melt.
Humidity can get bad in Cooks Inlet and Kenia Ak I couldn't tell much difference between Houston except it wasn't as hot and cooled down at night, when the wind comes out of the south on the Gulf it brings the humidity with it on the Texas coast
10-4 on Gulf of Alaska and points south of Palmer being humid same reason for that area being so much warmer than the Interior where Tok is - as much as +40F in winters. We're so acclimated to FL humidity it can hardly get worse than that anywhere but Texas can get real spongy.
@RJ - I'm not going to make any rash decision on ditching the genny. It's all bolted in, wired in, works great, and paid for. I don't need another 1/2 bay for stuff, running half full now.
I really think it's more a game that I don't use, need it, depend on it. The Honda was what I had in mind as they are quiet and not going to run many hours. But why spend money and time/enery making the swap. Anyone who says solar is all they need has not done it where it gets gray for more than a few days. Without a pole you have to generate power besides solar; i.e. generator.
Cold is fine on batteries as electricity is just to run fans, the Webasto is diesel and throws plenty of heat. I would not consider going electric heat and ditching the webasto. I am nuts but not certified as yet.
I just picked up 10 320watt panels, need to get then=m on the roof.
Quote from: windtrader on October 20, 2023, 07:18:59 PM
I really think it's more a game that I don't use, need it, depend on it. The Honda was what I had in mind as they are quiet and not going to run many hours. But why spend money and time/enery making the swap. Anyone who says solar is all they need has not done it where it gets gray for more than a few days. Without a pole you have to generate power besides solar; i.e. generator.
Cold is fine on batteries as electricity is just to run fans, the Webasto is diesel and throws plenty of heat. I would not consider going electric heat and ditching the webasto. I am nuts but not certified as yet.
I just picked up 10 320watt panels, need to get then=m on the roof.
You popped a lot of bubbles Don :P most of the guys won't tell you the downside
The question is....... How will I be using the bus....... I am interested in living in it full time and traveling as I feel like moving. I am hoping to go and look at a bus very soon that does not have the genny and AC. Its a nice looking bus from the pics and I am excited to go and see it. Wanting to live in it full time, I have to consider that I may not be able to always be in that 70 degree weather and hope to get some ideas on the best and lowest cost way of adding some AC to this coach. I use to drive charter buses in California/Nevada a life time ago and when it was hot we ran the bus 24 hours a day to keep them cooled down with the coach AC. Not really and option in a RV park or boon docking location.
A split Mini AC/heat unit maybe an option, still trying to get as much info as possible. At this late in life I hate making bad decisions as it takes so long to recover from them.
We don't use just solar either but have a small charger when the solar panels can not deliver it kicks in and finishes the charge back up to 29.6 by night time. Even though we are on the pole if it gets nice and sunny I will shut off the shore and put on the 4024 inverter to supplement our electric bill here which stays relatively low .
Winter same way even though it is snow season the sun seems to shine a lot and very few day overcast so just leave the panels turned on. Most times when have to use both ac's we are hooked to the pole or genny would be on but not any 64,ooo BTU's just 13,500 Coleman up front and the 12,000 portable in the back.
I see a lot of the new trucks have the 400 hr lithium battery banks and the AC units are DC no AC current or solar,buses are easier to cool when parked but not so moving.Small compact autos have 20+ btu for cooling
Quote from: Satelliteguy on October 21, 2023, 09:17:37 AMAt this late in life I hate making bad decisions as it takes so long to recover from them.
This statement casts a shadow that was not included in your original post. What is your definition of a bad decision as it applies to getting a bus? If you implied financial related then to keep your bus healthy and well fed be prepared to spend LOTS of money annually and generally get no financial return.
Gary may throw eggs at me on this board as he is vested in building the bus community but he'd probably agree it is more important for a prospective to research and go in with eyes and checkbook wide open.
Maybe start over and offer your insights on your plans and budget for a bus. You may rethink starting with a bus that has no generator or AC as that will be money sunk and not gotten back. We are all here to help so don't take any comments in a negative way, we really want to help you make the most appropriate decision for your situation.
Buses are expensive to keep up moving or setting, I got in deep thought one day looking at my Country Coach setting and costing me over 4 grand a year with out even moving and decided it needs to go
Agree - the main cost difference is fuel. Assuming the owner intends to use the bus Lots of costs are the same - insurance, aging out tires, regular fluid changes, roadside service, various travel club memberships, etc. I try to forget them all so I'm sure I'm missing a few. lol
clifford - that's the second time I've read youi mention selling the vehicle, you have others to travel on the road or hanging up the road vacations?
Quote from: windtrader on October 20, 2023, 07:18:59 PM
@RJ - I'm not going to make any rash decision on ditching the genny. It's all bolted in, wired in, works great, and paid for. I don't need another 1/2 bay for stuff, running half full now.
Don - If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
Quote from: windtrader on October 20, 2023, 07:18:59 PM
Cold is fine on batteries as electricity is just to run fans, the Webasto is diesel and throws plenty of heat. I would not consider going electric heat and ditching the webasto. I am nuts but not certified as yet.
Don - Not only does my coach have four electric Cadet toe-kick heaters, but it also has an AquaHot system for domestic hot water, cabin heat, and engine pre-heat, which, as you probably know, uses a Webasto diesel boiler. I don't use the AH very much - it's been cantankerous since the day I bought the coach back in 2018! I'd put effort into getting it running right, but at $5+ for a gallon of diesel, electricity from the power pole is much less expensive!
But that's one of the things that makes this hobby so unique - everyone's taste and needs are as different as every conversion.
However, as far as
Satelliteguy's questions go, I certainly agree with
Van - search out and find one that's already completed, live with it for awhile, then remodel if necessary. Far better nowadays than starting from scratch with a worn-out revenue-service coach.
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
RJ