This is an example of loving to tell the EV people I told you so. This happened last month and buses are pretty much brand new. They are expected to be back in service next month but we'll see. I have seen them driving around but not ridden in one thus far. Oh, they are powered by PROTERRA.
https://www.fox6now.com/news/milwaukee-county-electric-buses-temporarily-out-service
Read on. Guess that didn't work out for them.
June 21, 2023 Announcement, Corporate
Nova Bus changes its business model and ends bus production in the US
Nova Bus is exiting bus production in the US market. Consequently, the company has decided to close its Plattsburgh manufacturing and delivery facility by 2025.
https://novabus.com/blog/2023/06/21/nova-bus-changes-its-business-model-and-ends-bus-production-in-the-us/
At least the overall crappiness didn't rub off on PREVOST. MCTS was a longtime NEW FLYER customer and in recent years GILLIG. I guess they got hooked and now they have some lemons.
Y'all know I a EV fanboy but it is disappointing but part of the natural capitalistic (/hybrid govt. partnerships) process on new markets; many try, few survive. It's still early days for mass rollout for public transportation and long haul, although Tesla Semi is very close and wise folk do not bet against Elon. He will lead the rest forward.
I went to the Vegas airport this morning and saw 3 of the Irizar ( Scania) buses I think they were electric but not sure,anyways the cops had traffic stopped and flagging you around because all three were broke down in traffic ,sharp looking buses 45 ft long with handicap ramps
Quote from: windtrader on September 12, 2023, 01:37:08 PM
Y'all know I'm an EV fanboy. . .
Don -I'm sure you're well aware that the electrical grid infrastructure cannot handle the EV demand the politicians have bequeathed upon us.
Wind and solar won't cut it, when there's no wind and the panels are covered in snow, there goes your power. . .
Nuclear is well proven clean energy, but the NIMBY environmental wackos fearmonger us into shutting them down. . .
Look how CA's long drought drained the hydro-electric system. . .
East Coast Elites have NO clue how big the Western US is, let alone it's topographical complexity compared to the speed bump Appalachians . . .
A Tesla cannot make the normal 285 mile, five-hour drive from Spokane, WA to Seattle, WA on an 85º day with the A/C running driving into a headwind without having to stop for 90 - 120 minutes minimum to charge, and even then folks worry about making it because you still have to cross the Cascades. Come winter with freezing temperatures, rain and snow, with the wipers and heater running hot and heavy, now they have to stop two or three times to recharge, making that five hour trip closer to ten hours.
Imaging sitting at a charging station, it's 10º outside, the wind's howling and the snow's coming down, and because you've got the heater on to keep from freezing, it's now taking three-four times as long to charge your EV.
EVs are best for
local puttering around, 50-100 miles/day in mild weather, charging at home overnite. But even then the current grid can't handle the loads if there are weather extremes.
On the other hand, a hybrid solves 80% - 90% of the EV's negatives, at the cost of not making the environmental wackos happy. Screw them - they haven't been right about climate change in over forty years.
Anyway, that's my take on it. . .
FWIW. . . ;)
RJ
RJ you're right on target with that perspective. You just say the word nuclear and people run to the basement and scream. Just because the old Soviet Union couldn't get it right back in the 1980's, doesn't mean we should scrap the whole thing over here nearly 40 years later. Years from now, we may have EV's that will allow you to snap it a smaller battery to give you an extra 100 or more miles. We are far from that point.
Just go back to those James Wang MOTORCOACH WORLD video's where he drove that VAN-HOOL across the country and see how lousy the charging was. That was in hot weather. Now imagine that scenario with cold and snow piled up around those charging stations. The display often is slow to respond in extreme cold and then even with gloves your fingers are hurting while trying to charge.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 12, 2023, 03:58:55 PM
I went to the Vegas airport this morning and saw 3 of the Irizar ( Scania) buses I think they were electric but not sure,anyways the cops had traffic stopped and flagging you around because all three were broke down in traffic ,sharp looking buses 45 ft long with handicap ramps
Wow three broken down at once? EV or not that's not a good thing for the image.
"speed bump Appalachians"...guess can be expected from western inhabitants.lol been out west. Just a little larger speed bumps.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 13, 2023, 07:14:51 AM
"speed bump Appalachians"...guess can be expected from western inhabitants.lol been out west. Just a little larger speed bumps.
Plus 120 degree temperature in the desert ,I could not believe people drove 100's of miles to be a part of the 130 degrees record temperatures in Death Valley this year, some folks are not real smart
Quote from: luvrbus on September 13, 2023, 07:42:03 AM
Plus 120 degree temperature in the desert ,I could not believe people drove 100's of miles to be a part of the 130 degrees record temperatures in Death Valley this year, some folks are not real smart
Oh well think of it as "Evolution In Action"!!!!
We drove through death valley while out there. 126° that day. A few hundred feet below sea level. And saw the gas station with the high fuel price. We were sure to have a full tank before crossing.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 13, 2023, 07:42:03 AM
Plus 120 degree temperature in the desert ,I could not believe people drove 100's of miles to be a part of the 130 degrees record temperatures in Death Valley this year, some folks are not real smart
Must have been the same nuts that thought they were gonna storm area 51 and rescue ET. :o
I remember that. HEHE sometimes I think that if they ever hold an open house at Area 51, you'll find buildings full of missing socks, pens and ice scraper/snow brushes. I mean where else do they go? :) They have buses that take employees there every day for those that don't want to fly JANET AIRLINES. Plain white 737's with red stripes.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on September 14, 2023, 04:09:14 AM
I remember that. HEHE sometimes I think that if they ever hold an open house at Area 51, you'll find buildings full of missing socks, pens and ice scraper/snow brushes. I mean where else do they go? :) They have buses that take employees there every day for those that don't want to fly JANET AIRLINES. Plain white 737's with red stripes.
Let's not forget all those lost 10mm sockets ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on September 12, 2023, 03:58:55 PM
I went to the Vegas airport this morning and saw 3 of the Irizar ( Scania) buses I think they were electric but not sure,anyways the cops had traffic stopped and flagging you around because all three were broke down in traffic ,sharp looking buses 45 ft long with handicap ramps
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on September 13, 2023, 05:05:24 AM
Wow three broken down at once? EV or not that's not a good thing for the image.
Back when Dad an I were looking to upgrade and enlarge our fleet I saw some Irizar buses out on the road in service and thought WOW, nice looking buses!
So I started looking in to them and wasn't having much success, then I ran across 3 of them for sale by a bus broker who was more than willing to fly us down to FL, show us all about the buses, fill out out the finance papers and send us on my way with all three buses.
Hmmm, I said sounds nice, let me get back to you.
So dad an I talked more about it and both agreed something about this deal didn't quite smell right.
So I did some more digging and found a picture of one of the same 3 buses he was trying to sell me in the back ground of a picture of another bus for sale by someone else. I called them and asked them if they knew anything about the Irizar bus in the back ground of one of their pictures and was told
"You don't want that bus it's been sitting in that same spot since a broker shorted something out trying to jump start it , and NOBODY can figure out how to fix it!" He also gave me the name & # of the company it used to belong too that was on the back of it.
Sooooo..... I called that # and asked to speak to someone that knew about those buses. When I got someone on the phone, he asked
"How I knew they used to own those buses?" I told him I spoke to someone that knew of the one sitting at a shop needing some electrical work done on it, because it was fried. And that they gave me the name & # off it.
He was PISSED that his company's name was still on it. But he calmed down and talked to me about it. Come to find out he had placed those 3 buses with the "said broker" I'd been talking too, and that they had the buses in their possession and someone had shorted one out frying the entire wiring system to where NOTHING worked. And because of that the broker had to pay them for all 3 buses and was supposed to have removed ALL markings of their company info off them.
Then he asked me why I was interested in them, I told him that I thought they were nice looking buses. He agreed that they were indeed fantastic looking buses.
Then he asked me what kind of buses we currently had and I told him we had older MCI's and Setra's. He asked how we liked them I told him the MCI's were good runners, but lacked in the modern looks department, and the Setra's were great running, and driving buses, but they too could stand some upgrades in appearances.
He then told me if you like the Setra's you should move up in to the S417's, that they were as fine looking as any other bus on the market. I agreed with him, but told him their base price was pretty steep for us.
He told me
"Yas get what yas pay for and if I were you I'd pony up for the S417's and RUN not walk away from those Irizar's! ;D BK ;D
Yikes. I have yet to see any IRIZAR around here. If they can make a go of it in this market, fine. But it sounds like crappy bus that could go the way of BCI when they tried to make headway. Haven't seen one of those for many years now.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on September 18, 2023, 05:39:23 AM
Yikes. I have yet to see any IRIZAR around here. If they can make a go of it in this market, fine. But it sounds like crappy bus that could go the way of BCI when they tried to make headway. Haven't seen one of those for many years now.
They are sold in Vegas look at the web site their service network is not much C&J is ok but a RV dealer to work on a bus forget it,The Irizar bus are probably made in Mexico they are popular there ,and don't have all the BS required here,the Scina engine is not bad MACK Truck used some of their engines for years before Mack was sold to Volvo, they were sold under the Waukesa name also
When in doubt, just go with the J4500. Like the old saying goes, the best remains unchanged. That could apply to PREVOST too. I think at least according to the IRIZAR website, the CUMMINS engine and ALLISON transmission is the sole powertrain combo for America. I think they realize that some odd ball engine would have spelled disaster for sure with them.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on September 18, 2023, 07:08:46 AM
When in doubt, just go with the J4500. Like the old saying goes, the best remains unchanged. That could apply to PREVOST too. I think at least according to the IRIZAR website, the CUMMINS engine and ALLISON transmission is the sole powertrain combo for America. I think they realize that some odd ball engine would have spelled disaster for sure with them.
The required DEF BS here adds about $25.000.00 to prices of trucks and buses.they probably did the penny pinching and decided it was cheaper to buy than engineer and manufacture their own,plus Cummins has dealers everywhere lol with a 2 month backlog.I like Cummins but they rape the rv people with the ONAN generators service $200.00 in Phoenix for tech just to walk out and look at a ONAN
Great points. Darn right it's easier to source engines from dedicated builders than to do it themselves. Even NAVISTAR/IC bus did that several years ago now. They used to even supply diesel engines to other bus and truck builders and now they source engines from CUMMINS. Of course you have the opposite with PREVOST where they use the VOLVO engine since they are part of that empire and the new MERCEDES BENZ TOURRIDER using the DETROIT/MERCEDES engine. I could be wrong but I doubt any of the bus builders will develop their own respective electric drive system. Still too new and the original topic of this post shows too many hidden problems yet.