I was watching a YouTube video the other day on how to change a tire on a rim, and in lieu of balancing tires the person put 6 or 8 ounces of "balancing beads" inside the tire. Anyone here have any experience with that?
Quote from: Glennman on June 12, 2023, 12:36:24 PM
I was watching a YouTube video the other day on how to change a tire on a rim, and in lieu of balancing tires the person put 6 or 8 ounces of "balancing beads" inside the tire. Anyone here have any experience with that?
I've got them in my drive tires, and have used them on light vehicles before with good experiences too. I think the Centramatic balancers might be the coolest option out there, but I like the beads more than the weights generally - they'll adjust dynamically and can't fall off.
I'm very curious - how exactly do they work?
John
Beads have been around for a long time and work,your better bus tires come with a balancing dot you line the dot with the valve stem and need nothing, I haven't used beads or weights on Toyo tires mounted on Alcoa wheels in over 30 years just the dot,85% of the time it's the brake drum that is out of balance
We run Centramatic on the rear duals for a long time.
I think I'll give them a try. Thanks everyone for your input.
If you tire monitors (TPMS) sensors are inside the tires you cannot use the beads
Quote from: luvrbus on June 13, 2023, 05:46:40 AM
If you tire monitors (TPMS) sensors are inside the tires you cannot use the beads
Good point luvrbus. I was thinking about adding TPMS, but not if adding balancing beads! Now I have to make a decision. I was hoping to avoid that!
Could just do beads with valve-mounted TPMS
The Centramatic is nice because it is independent to the tires and can serve any tire change at it's location.
Quote from: dtcerrato on June 13, 2023, 07:54:58 PM
The Centramatic is nice because it is independent to the tires and can serve any tire change at it's location.
Those won't fit or work all on buses,they block the air flow for cooling on the brake drums or disks pads ,you won't see those on many buses.I have set of take offs in the shop because of the heating problem caused by Centramatics,but if they work for you go for it
OK I just can't understand how these could possibly work. Wouldn't they tend to roll to the most off center location and make it worse? Or if they just keep rolling to the bottom how does that make any difference in the balance? Maybe they act as a damper? In which case they really aren't doing anything at all to affect the actual balance. Just seems like snake oil to me.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on June 14, 2023, 07:33:12 AM
OK I just can't understand how these could possibly work. Wouldn't they tend to roll to the most off center location and make it worse?
I don't understand the science either but my son has a fleet of trucks and he swears they work. He's pretty careful with his cash so I trust his word. They'll fly out by centrifugal force and spend their life immediately inside the tread, but why that would make an out of balance tire not out of balance is beyond me. I bought a pickup once that had been sitting for a long time. It had balance beads in the tires and it about leaped off the road when I first got it up to speed but it very quickly smoothed out. I assume the beads started in a lump at the bottom of the tire and then figured it out once I got moving but I don't know why they would do that.
https://youtu.be/_7CghNsdGbk
A good tire doesn't need balancing, especially on the drive axle.
That video is useless. Nothing but marketing. What do they do to affect the balance?
Common sense says they go as far from center as possible. Tires do tend to be not perfectly round and that would create an imbalance, not cure it.
Jim
Quote from: lostagain on June 14, 2023, 08:33:58 AM
A good tire doesn't need balancing, especially on the drive axle.
When Les Schwab in OR installed 8 new tires on the Country Coach they used nothing but the balancing dot on the tires,I ask he said it was a waste of $320.00 to balance they would be fine and they are.I asked about the beads and he said no with the Bendix TPMS tire system inside the tire it would destroy the sensors,he wasn't all that hip on beads though period :^
Add a pint of antifreeze blend.
Quote from: chessie4905 on June 14, 2023, 11:32:18 AM
Add a pint of antifreeze blend.
Some say golf balls.I bet the golf balls work good when the cover wears out and they unwind inside the tire :D
I have been using beads for 20 years and they are the best at keeping the tires balanced for the life of the tires,, no down side..>>>Dan
How do they work? I want to know the details. Without a suitable explanation that makes it clear how they compensate for the imbalance it is still all nothing but snake oil.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on June 15, 2023, 07:12:34 AM
How do they work? I want to know the details. Without a suitable explanation that makes it clear how they compensate for the imbalance it is still all nothing but snake oil.
Jim
Jim try this one, the proof is in the pudding. We've used this method for 20 years. No issues and tires stay balanced even after rotating.
https://www.centramatic.com/wheel-balancing-educational-video.rhtml
OK that's good but I want to know WHY the balls go to the light side. What is the force that does this? I can see from the video that it does and I believe what I'm being told by you who have tried it, but I still want to know why. Someone besides me has to have questioned this because it is a contrary result. Intuitively it is wrong.
Jim
A couple of informatory paragraphs I found on the web...
The beads spread out as the tire rotates, drive by the tire's rotation. When the heavy spot on the tire moves the wheel in one direction, momentum carries the beads the other way, until they spread out in a "balanced" layer. that's a layer such that spinning the tire doesn't cause vibration - aka balanced.
Centrifugal force is the natural force that distributes the beads evenly around the inner liner of the tire, while the inertia is what positions them where they need to be. This happens when the upward and downward motion of the suspension, and vibrations of the wheel imbalances force the product to do so.Oct 13, 2020
Quote from: dtcerrato on June 15, 2023, 05:09:26 PM
A couple of informatory paragraphs I found on the web...
The beads spread out as the tire rotates, drive by the tire's rotation. When the heavy spot on the tire moves the wheel in one direction, momentum carries the beads the other way, until they spread out in a "balanced" layer. that's a layer such that spinning the tire doesn't cause vibration - aka balanced.
Centrifugal force is the natural force that distributes the beads evenly around the inner liner of the tire, while the inertia is what positions them where they need to be. This happens when the upward and downward motion of the suspension, and vibrations of the wheel imbalances force the product to do so.Oct 13, 2020
I can't see that theory working at all speeds,I seen the tire companies dump a 12 oz bag of beads in tires before that a lot of lead weights
The balancing dot on the Toyo's sounds very interesting, how many other makes do this?
Quote from: DoubleEagle on June 15, 2023, 06:43:10 PM
The balancing dot on the Toyo's sounds very interesting, how many other makes do this?
Have no idea Walter .some wheels have a dot or a notch you match with the dot on the tire
Quote from: luvrbus on June 15, 2023, 07:32:16 PM
Have no idea Walter .some wheels have a dot or a notch you match with the dot on the tire
So I would assume the dot denotes the heavy side so if you put the dots 180° apart that would lend to the most balanced condition? Or something like that?
Quote from: lostagain on June 14, 2023, 08:33:58 AM
A good tire doesn't need balancing, especially on the drive axle.
Yeah, you would think they would come balanced from the factory...aye?
I really don't know or care what makes them work as they do,, I do know that when I replace a tire I always have beads installed.. When first starting out with a new tire I can feel some bouncing and also feel it slowly going away with a few miles,,, never to return during the life of the tire,, good enough experience for me..>>>Dan
But wouldn't beads inside the tire just go to the bottom every time you stop? It would need to rebalance itself every time you got up to speed wouldn't it?
I've been seeing those red and yellow dots a lot more often now that I look for them. Some tires even have both, not sure what that means.
I recently bought a Hunter dual motor balancer with the strobe and pickup. I think I'll use that instead of beads since it can handle large tires.
Jim
Well, I have my tag axle tire installed now. I went with traditional balancing as was available at the time. I'll revisit this when I replace the rest of the tires, which I plan to do soon.
When you do,, make sure the special valve inserts are also installed,, they keep the beads from getting under the valve seat and leaking..>>>Dan
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on June 16, 2023, 07:37:14 AM
But wouldn't beads inside the tire just go to the bottom every time you stop? It would need to rebalance itself every time you got up to speed wouldn't it?
Yup! On my old Winnebago pre-bus-days I could feel the difference between low speed maneuvering and once the beads had settled into place, but as long as the beads are where they need to be at the speed that wheel balance matters, all is gravy.
That's actually the big benefit to the beads, the balance is dynamic. If you lose a chunk of tread or such, the beads will shift to balance it as best as possible where weight-based balancing remains static after installation.
Balance beads move necessary to maintain balance. There are hours of info on these and how they work. Just Google them. Hunter or other balancers are little help if tires are out of round, very common on cheap tires.
I laugh at the guys on truck forums that install those big and wide tires on lifted trucks, complaining about shake at highway and higher speeds, even after balancing several times. Their tires are oddball imported brands, many with agressive treads.