If you have an old Bus Conversion with a Diesel burning Engine, and you want to visit California, you better do it now, before California bans your dirty old Bus from entering their state.
On the flip side, if you are in the market for a vintage diesel burner Buses, there may be several for sale at discounted prices very soon.
https://rvtroop.com/californias-war-on-out-of-state-diesel-motorhomes?fbclid=IwAR3ICaGxYIyRKzn6_1vD0SlcNP19UuUAi6iVkfil6k8F4Wc8OTjBoIQxJyk_aem_th_ATkuCIWcYY8wiDoY2BWOteLsMm-RUsNBOxeXZ6aMvwa7jlyOppptYczwjaPmf9NpCYjCZVrcTgfmFi6ydGrMgriz
Gary,
Thank you for bringing up this potentially significant issue of what is legal on roads in California. Rather than putting busnuts living outside the state, the new regulations appear to be just the opposite. It appears all buses registered OUTSIDE California are exempt and those busnuts with CA registered buses may be doomed.
Following are some initial research notes on this potentially devastating program to we CA busnuts. Stay tuned. I have emailed CARB for more clarity but the way it is worded seems to cast a net over us and based on the timeline we may dread going to the mailbox to find the death notice.
Here's the deal. We California residents that own a vintage two stroke diesel vehicle and converted them into motorhomes were allowed by the CA DMV to title and register it as a housecar/motorhome. The massive regulation that swept virtually all two stroke diesels off the roads had an exemption that exempted them from smog devices and checks.
This new regulation states California-registered motorhomes are now regulated by this new program. It does not state those motorhomes currently exempted can bypass this. Frankly, it is a bit worrying to say the least.
https://www.bar.ca.gov/arsc/newsletters/newsletter/spring-2023/carb-implements-heavy-duty-vehicle-inspection-and-maintenance-program
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/heavy-duty-inspection-and-maintenance-programhttps://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/factsheet_background_and_program_requirements_starting_in_2023_1.pdf
Which heavy-duty vehicles must comply with the regulation?
Nearly all diesel and alternative fuel heavy-duty trucks and buses with a gross vehicle weight rating over 14,000 pounds that operate in California must comply. This includes hybrid trucks and buses, commercial vehicles, privately-owned vehicles, government vehicles, and vehicles registered outside of California.
Which vehicles are exempt from the regulation?
The heavy-duty vehicle types shown below are exempt from the regulation:
• Zero-emission vehicles
• Military tactical vehicles
• Emergency vehicles
• New vehicles with engines certified to the most stringent optional, NOx standard (only for the first four years of program implementation)
• Motorhomes registered outside of California
• Vehicles operating under an experimental permit
• Historical vehicles
If your vehicle is identified as a potential high emitter through REMD, you will receive a Notice to Submit to Testing (NST) from CARB. Upon receival, you will have 30 calendar days to submit to CARB a passing HD I/M compliance test performed by a HD I/M tester.
Non-OBD vehicles, i.e., those that don't meet the engine model year requirements above, are required to undergo a smoke opacity test and a visual inspection of the vehicle's emissions control equipment, referred to as the Vehicle Emissions Control Equipment Inspection. The smoke opacity test is the same SAE J1667 snap acceleration smoke inspection used to comply with CARB's PSIP.
Question: What are the vehicle testing requirements for the Clean Truck Check program?Answer: Currently, vehicle compliance tests are only required if you receive a Notice to Submit to Testing (NST). Upon receiving an NST, a passing vehicle compliance test is required within 30 days of receipt. Please refer to the Vehicle Owner Basics factsheet (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/factsheet_vehicle_owner_basics.pdf) for additional information on current testing requirements.
Please note that Periodic Testing Requirements (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2022-11/factsheet_periodic_hdim_testing_requirements.pdf) will be phased in starting in 2024. This will require nearly all vehicles subject to the program to undergo twice per year testing with results submitted to CARB. Agricultural vehicles and California-registered motorhomes will be required to undergo testing once per year. CARB plans to release more information on the timing of these requirements in July of 2023.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/factsheet_vehicle_owner_basics.pdf
What is the HD I/M regulation?
• It is a new program to test heavy-duty vehicles' emissions control systems for proper operation. Nearly all diesel and alternative fuel vehicles over 14,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating that operate in California, including personal vehicles, will be required to comply.
If you receive a Notice to Submit to Testing from the California Air Resources Board (CARB) due to a potential high-emitting vehicle, submit a passing compliance test to CARB within 30 days.
LOL and Newsome want to run for the White House in 2028? HA HA HA, He has been smoking to much weed.
It is only for vehicles that OPERATE in California that register there and live there.
Windy they are coming for you LOL
Well it looks like discrimination suits are coming from a lot of RV'ers.
Sounds like steadfast California residents of non compliant vehicles need to start reregistering them in other states...
Might be Dan. Will have to wait for more clarity we get a pass or not. If not, then it is the same long running game getting any 49 state legal vehicle to at least be legal in one USA state other than California. This does not change the risks and potential liabilities and fines etc by running the vehicle in the state when the driver is a CA resident. That part is REALLY difficult to divest residency. That would be extremely difficult for me as any investments still owned in CA makes you a resident even if you live in Peru full time.
LOL CARB changes the rules every time they meet They are coming for Don :^ just be patience
Clifford,This one really has me concerned based on how I read it so far. There seems virtually no escape from it. We busnuts are a small group of the entire diesel RV folks that might be impacted.
What is your estimate how many other not bus conversions are still on the road? I mean those older two strokes that were produced as RV like a Custom Coach or Prevost, etc. I think we all got a pass from the ban two strokes they did a few years ago. But this time they just say all personal RV must pass the testing. In the case of non OBD engines, there is an opacity test instead. Maybe a clean two stroke can pass but I'd not be surprised CARB just wants them all to fail and off the road for good.
Very sad. So what happens when trains cross over the California border?
Think I had 97,000 miles on my Immaculate 1991 Prevost XL DDEC11 that I sold a year or so ago to a Couple in Northern Califorkia. Beautiful, inside and out. They Flew into Austin Tx. drove West to barn and drove home. Almost 2000 miles. . He told me they would never get the Private Buses off the Road. Looks like he might be wrong.
I guess there is always the possibility of a repower. In our case if we ever got between a rock & a hard place our 42 year bus ownership would turn into a tiny home. Mom always said "can't fight city hall & gee wiz think of all the $$$ you'd save! Jeeze...
I don't see the problem. Just register it as a hysterical vehicle.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on May 17, 2023, 06:34:34 AM
I don't see the problem. Just register it as a hysterical vehicle.
Jim
Lol, Jim did you mean to spell it that way? It is an accurate statement, especially for Don! Sorry, I couldn't resist! Histerical / historical :^
Quote from: dtcerrato on May 17, 2023, 06:40:46 AM
Lol, Jim did you mean to spell it that way? It is an accurate statement, especially for Don! Sorry, I couldn't resist! Histerical / historical :^
You register one as a historical vehicle then they can only be used in special events in CA,they haven't really ever enforced that yet!, here in AZ you can drive one for 3000 miles a year and it requires record keeping,LOL do like the kids in Safeway do here all the electric handicap carts have a plaque with Tesla models on the front
That's 3000 miles in-state right? Don't see as where they would have any say at all about miles out of state.
Jim
Injecting of Natural gas (CNG), Propane and now by Cummins Hydrogen injection kits, will cleanup the diesel particulates and smoke. Cummins says their kits are available. MCI made their CNG clean busses for the SoCal Fly bus company for many years...
Quote from: dtcerrato on May 17, 2023, 06:40:46 AM
Lol, Jim did you mean to spell it that way? It is an accurate statement, especially for Don! Sorry, I couldn't resist! Histerical / historical :^
Nope they are actually included in this ruling this time
Well, being in CA and govt handsout galore, I think I will look for a grant so I can convert to hydrogen under some clean air scheme. LOL
Not so far fetched :^.
Research update.
For all busnuts with older buses that have been exempted thus far in CA, the net has been cast upon us.
I found a company that is active and has expertise and knowledge of all this nonsense. The lead in is that there is an existing program called PSIP that does opacity testing for high emission old vehicles. What I read was the new Clean Truck Check is tied in with PSIP. The new testing for non-OBD engines is opacity test, same as PSIP.
QuoteThe Periodic Smoke Inspection Program (PSIP) and the Heavy-Duty Inspection and Maintenance Program (HD I/M) Clean Truck Check are inspection and smog check programs to ensure polluting, poorly maintained heavy-duty vehicles operating in California are quickly identified and repaired.
What I heard today is two key things. First, currently the first phase in 2023, CARB has put up sensors along the roadways and when it detects excess pollutants including particulate matter, the LPR (License Plate Reader) grabs your details then sends you a letter to show up at a state certified testing site. The next phase later this year, early next year, CARB will scan the DMV databases selecting the vehicles that need to get into compliance then send a NST notice where you have 30 days to get tested.
Second, she was very forthcoming with the various loopholes and schemes to beat this stuff, legal of course but the new equipment is going to close those off. For example, register as a historical vehicle or drive less than 1000 miles, register out of state, etc. Great as long as you just go the events or drive so little and stay under the radar(literally real time sensor trackers). Otherwise, the damn sensors will track you and you pop up too often, you gonna get the letter.
Sadly, this really may be the end of CA registered old buses. I'm still reaching out to other organization that should know what is going on but this must be a wakeup call for we CA busnuts. Will I sell mine? dunno yet.
Quote from: windtrader on May 17, 2023, 01:01:02 PM
Research update.
For all busnuts with older buses that have been exempted thus far in CA, the net has been cast upon us.
I found a company that is active and has expertise and knowledge of all this nonsense. The lead in is that there is an existing program called PSIP that does opacity testing for high emission old vehicles. What I read was the new Clean Truck Check is tied in with PSIP. The new testing for non-OBD engines is opacity test, same as PSIP.
What I heard today is two key things. First, currently the first phase in 2023, CARB has put up sensors along the roadways and when it detects excess pollutants including particulate matter, the LPR (License Plate Reader) grabs your details then sends you a letter to show up at a state certified testing site. The next phase later this year, early next year, CARB will scan the DMV databases selecting the vehicles that need to get into compliance then send a NST notice where you have 30 days to get tested.
Second, she was very forthcoming with the various loopholes and schemes to beat this stuff, legal of course but the new equipment is going to close those off. For example, register as a historical vehicle or drive less than 1000 miles, register out of state, etc. Great as long as you just go the events or drive so little and stay under the radar(literally real time sensor trackers). Otherwise, the damn sensors will track you and you pop up too often, you gonna get the letter.
Sadly, this really may be the end of CA registered old buses. I'm still reaching out to other organization that should know what is going on but this must be a wakeup call for we CA busnuts. Will I sell mine? dunno yet.
It seems like this subject matter is hitting home with this, the only forum based in California and relating directly to what the forum is wrapped around - older bus conversions. Personally after driving our one & only bus for over 43 years now - we wouldn't hesitate to make it a tiny home but until then if I can afford fuel for it I'm driving it but considerably less these days. ???
We have a county here in AZ ,Maricopa (phoenix) they are getting stupid with emission testing on the older diesel engines too.I go back to Texas late this summer, the Texas air quality board gave AT&T a 3 year extension if they can clean the 12v92 powered generators engines up a little more since Caterpillar is over 3 years out for delivery for new generators.
Dan - this only affects CA residents that own these older busnut converted buses and early pro conversions done on 2 stroke powered diesels, pre-OBD and early OBD and not DPF upgraded. 49 state busnuts - keep on driving until the fuel card gets denied! lol
Clifford - I'm not inclined to know what surrounding green states like Oregon and Washington are doing on this but if they put the hammer down to bury 2-strokes last time, then they surely have an eye on this nonsense.
What is surprising is how few CA busnuts there are here. I posted on BCI on FB, same thing, not a stir. ?
What organization is advocating on behalf of older RV?
It took political ACTION to have the exemptions currently in place, these were not given freely...
As the years go by, the grip tightens through apathy and attrition.
Where should we be directing our membership money?
ACTION, not flaccid typing...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Green Enegry it is coming to a theater near you
Quote from: buswarrior on May 18, 2023, 05:06:22 AM
What organization is advocating on behalf of older RV?
It took political ACTION to have the exemptions currently in place, these were not given freely...
As the years go by, the grip tightens through apathy and attrition.
Where should we be directing our membership money?
ACTION, not flaccid typing...
BW - I'd love to think even remotely there is a chance to alter this regulation but I'm just not convinced. CA has been dead set on banning all 2 stroke motors. It has done it with boating and they even put increased restrictions on simple landscaping motors. Others like Clifford know the history behind the efforts starting many years ago to sweep two strokes off. That was the death of two strokes and total replacement by four stroke diesels.
I suspect at that time, the RV industry was more active to ensure their two stroke diesel pushers would have some cover but that is years ago and virtually all are now in compliance. There were some exceptions at the time like motorhomes and buses that were converted to motorhomes and titled/registered as such. There was also some limited use exceptions.
The new regulations seem broader and catch it all, leaving hardly any two strokes on the road, achieving what they did with boats on all inland waters; I believe some 2 strokes are on the open water, dunno.
Anyway, we have no advocates left except us. And by the incredible lack of response to this thread, posted in the heart of the affected constituents, it's hard to believe there will be more than a whimper from those like me that at this point are just scratching for details. I have no plans to raise objections, just use my time and energy to find pathways that minimize the impact on us.
The key question now is 40% opacity level. Does a clean running 2 stroke NA engine pass? Or is this just some BS level and all will fail anyway? Again, others are far more knowlegable. Before DPF was mandated, was under 40% normal? After DPF do they meet the 5% limit? How much is a DPF mod?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
The 2 strokes won't meet the 5% no matter what you do,people sale 60 series because they can not reach the 2010 standards,it would be a waste of $25,000.00 to try and upgrade to a DPF that is a expensive system. My good friend Don Fairchild worked years on emission control for the 2 stroke lol and bless his heart he got a 6L-71 to tier 1 and by then the tier 4 was in effect in CA, you can stick a fork in the 2 strokes and some 4 strokes they are done and that is why MTU sold it off to BMW
Turn's out there are some detroit diesel dpf retrofit kit's, here's what I came up with on some google research:
https://www.dieseldash.com/exhaust-system/DDE-RA0004903792-detroit-reman-dpf-kit?cclcl=en_US (https://www.dieseldash.com/exhaust-system/DDE-RA0004903792-detroit-reman-dpf-kit?cclcl=en_US)
https://www.dieseldash.com/exhaust-system/ESZ-ADN1501-freightliner-dpf-exhaust-filter?cclcl=en_US (https://www.dieseldash.com/exhaust-system/ESZ-ADN1501-freightliner-dpf-exhaust-filter?cclcl=en_US)
https://www.traceytruckparts.com/product/alliance-detroit-diesel-dpf-filter-kit-abp-n49-adj0813-c/ (https://www.traceytruckparts.com/product/alliance-detroit-diesel-dpf-filter-kit-abp-n49-adj0813-c/)
https://www.alliancetruckparts.com.au/Content/Uploads/Diesel_Particulate_Fitlers_(DPF)_Brochure.pdf?_ga=2.158359219.861222191.1684428199-1234916163.1684428199 (https://www.alliancetruckparts.com.au/Content/Uploads/Diesel_Particulate_Fitlers_(DPF)_Brochure.pdf?_ga=2.158359219.861222191.1684428199-1234916163.1684428199)
https://www.eautotools.com/OTC-556889-p/otc556889.htm (https://www.eautotools.com/OTC-556889-p/otc556889.htm)
https://firsttruckparts.com/products/ra0014907692-genuine-detroit-diesel-particulate-filter-kit (https://firsttruckparts.com/products/ra0014907692-genuine-detroit-diesel-particulate-filter-kit)
My understanding is that there are also some Volvo semi-truck with DPF filters. Maybe by a complete assemble from a heavy truck wrecking yard and use it to replace the muffler.
My engine is being completely rebuilt right now, and I'm curious how clean its exhaust will be when it's back in service. So saying, I'm assuming that at some point I will have to say goodbye to California and find a more-receptive state, at least to register my bus in. Some RV owners in the storage yard where I keep my bus have Montana license plates on their RVs, but CA frowns on that. Maybe South Dakota or one of those states that offers full-timers a mailing address for a legal domicile would be an option?
I'll be deleting my muffler, so then I'll have its space available for a DPF, maybe. Can one get a DPF from a junked truck in a salvage yard, or do they (like catalytic converters in CA) have to be specific for the exact engine type? Alliance's DPFs aren't legal in CA, but they don't list any for 2-strokes anyway.
John
You start adding anything to a 2 stroke engine that adds back pressure to the exhaust system,the fun begins,DDEC engines burn cleaner than the mechanical.The few I have been around with catalytic converters (RTS) were dogs and the converters were always plugged ,84 years old the 2 strokes have severed us well may they RIP
If CARB is set on outlawing my wonderful, vintage 8v71, they probably will manage to do it. Short of some large RV lobbying group being able to carve out a political exception, there is nothing standing in their way. Our MC5a currently doubles as a guest house anyway. I would consider out-of-registration or antique registration just to keep it movable though.
Sounds like if you don't want to move out of State, there will be a lot of Tiny Homes around.
Quote from: luvrbus on May 18, 2023, 12:50:00 PM
You start adding anything to a 2 stroke engine that adds back pressure to the exhaust system,the fun begins,DDEC engines burn cleaner than the mechanical.The few I have been around with catalytic converters (RTS) were dogs and the converters were always plugged ,84 years old the 2 strokes have severed us well may they RIP
If grabbing a used one off a semi-truck and deleting the muffler. Maybe setup it up where it can be used to pass the 40% opacity level test and then straight pipe it the rest of the time....
I'm not saying there's nothing to be worried about or that this will never happen,
BUT
here is a thread from 2008 about how CARB is about to push out all the bus conversions. Maybe this time is different, but personally if I were in CA I wouldn't worry too much until it was actually being put into practice.
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=8584.0 (https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=8584.0)
@fred - When you dig into the meat of this regulation it is draconian. They are hellbent on getting all gross polluters off the road. Phase 1 is underway. Sensors are being installed along port of entry and other locations where heavy vehicles travel. The sensors pick up and report via ALPR (Auto License Plate Readers) vehicles that exceed the allowed limits. This is 2023. Starting in 2024, they are going to start sending NST letters to all vehicles like ours that are not compliant and give you thirty days to go to a certified Clean Truck Tester.. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/inspection-and-maintenance-program/credentialed-hd-im-tester-public-list.
@Nova - I've not been around with ears to the ground on this issue since 2008, others can weigh in, but from all my research this is the final nail in the coffin, legally.
2023 we are safe, 2024 really gets questionable how long we have until we get letters; maybe we don't but I would not bet a cent on that bet. Or you drive down the freeway where they have the sniffers, then get a letter. Sure, show out of state plates but don't get sniffed too often; you'll get a letter proving you life out of state and just happen to vacation in CA more than usual. Sure, register it as a historic vehicle. Same thing as out of state. As long as you avoid detection, it works.
If ever there was an example of big brother this is a good one.
Everyone knew for years that it was going to happen, Detroit 2 strokes have been banned for industrial use like in the oil fields and construction equipment for over 20 years in CA,they are not going to give anyone a free pass this time around.As Don said before where goes CA so does the rest of states and that is true sad but true
Clifford, this sweep cleans the deck of all off road use too. We've been focusing on the on-road portion but they are just as thirsty and drooling on the off road part.
Maybe I'm just dreaming now but the way it reads and confirmed by PSIP and HD I/M tester is non-ODB engines use the J1667 opacity standard tools and that 40% is the golden ring. I have no idea if 40% is just some BS threshold they state so it looks official but if none of the engines run under that that so what's the point.
I just listened to a CARB presentation and they stated that a properly fitted DPF will result in 1% opacity and if not then something has a crack and leaking. I'm going to call some testers that do PSIP J1667 testing as that has been around a long time to get a hands on opinion on what makes the grade and what fails 40%.
If there is no way to pass via CARB and Clean Truck Check, then two paths may work. 1) Register as a out of state vehicle. 2) Register as a CA historic vehicle using DMC Form 17 A.
Scammers are going to make a lot of from this ,the 2 stroke design is a nasty engine for emissions,better start on another plan Don,tier 1 was the best anyone ever did. They never spent the big money to try and design a EGR system for the 92 series and none of the add parts on from a junk yard are going to work on a non EGR engine.The non EGR 4 stroke engines are in deep trouble too in CA
Quote from: luvrbus on May 18, 2023, 08:35:05 PM
...where goes CA so does the rest of states and that is true sad but true
Not really, Most of the country considers California to be the land of granola. Fruits, nuts, flakes, etc. There are many things about the left coast that are considered to be very poor ideas indeed, and a number of things that nobody in their right mind would consider.
Jim
I don't think CA will ever ban RV travels for out of state travelers lol they will hit you with fee at the fruit check points for that old DD
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on May 19, 2023, 07:24:11 AM
Not really, Most of the country considers California to be the land of granola. Fruits, nuts, flakes, etc. There are many things about the left coast that are considered to be very poor ideas indeed, and a number of things that nobody in their right mind would consider.
Jim
Most of the stuff becomes federal EPA rules for emission control, the states then do have to regulate some of their rules all you need to do is look under the hood of car and the price tag :^.CARB is not a favorite of mine but they have cleaned the air in CA now you see the mountains anyway
Quote from: luvrbus on May 19, 2023, 08:23:40 AM
I don't think CA will ever ban RV travels for out of state travelers lol they will hit you with fee at the fruit check points for that old DD
Maybe put the fruit/nut check on the other side of the Freeway? ;D
Quote from: windtrader on May 19, 2023, 12:28:39 AM
Clifford, this sweep cleans the deck of all off road use too. We've been focusing on the on-road portion but they are just as thirsty and drooling on the off road
I just listened to a CARB presentation and they stated that a properly fitted DPF will result in 1% opacity and if not then something has a crack and leaking. I'm going to call some testers that do PSIP J1667 testing as that has been around a long time to get a hands on opinion on what makes the grade and what fails 40%.
Don CA has had the J1667 (snap test) for 40 years,the 3406 Cat 425 hp smoked like a train under a load but would pass the snap test.
The PSIP test applies to all diesel trucks when the engine has so many miles in service, I forget but 3 to 400,000 miles
Get it registered as belong to a diplomat
Clifford,"Don CA has had the J1667 (snap test) for 40 years,the 3406 Cat 425 hp smoked like a train under a load but would pass the snap test.
The PSIP test applies to all diesel trucks when the engine has so many miles in service, I forget but 3 to 400,000 miles"I'm too busy today out of town but have the list of PSIP J1667 test shops. Going to call some to get their opinion and experience passing these old 2 strokes against the 40%. Nobody has posted anything specific if this is even possible or just pissing upwind. You'd be one of the most knowledeable on something this detailed on emissions and CARB.
Quote from: chessie4905 on May 19, 2023, 12:29:27 PM
Get it registered as belong to a diplomat
My father was a UK consul in many countries, and his cars always had an oval CD plate next to the number plate; with that magic CD plate we never stopped at borders in pre-Schengen Europe, and any parking or traffic violations were automatically dismissed. I wonder what the California requirements are for diplomatic vehicles?
John
The Opacity test will drive a nail in the coffin for 2 strokes. You can do one yourself with a clean white filter media ,40% of light is not going to happen on a 2 stroke engine and some 4 stroke engines,CARB is serious about this s***
Quote from: lvmci on May 17, 2023, 09:03:18 AM
Injecting of Natural gas (CNG), Propane and now by Cummins Hydrogen injection kits, will cleanup the diesel particulates and smoke. Cummins says their kits are available. MCI made their CNG clean busses for the SoCal Fly bus company for many years...
So how many thousands of dallars in converting and more added equipment to shove in a already compact space or pull the old smokey engine out and paying tens or hundreds of thousands of dallars for some hydrogen or electric engine retro fit. I guess we all have millions of dallars laying around to spend and time to match right. We need to fight to keep what we have not bent over and take it up the tail pipe what the hell not pissed at you just saying. We all bitch about spending 3 or 4 grand on a set of tires or set of new batteries for God sakes.
Whatever happened to the Grandfather clause?
Not enough grandfathers around enforcing it.
Quote from: tr206 on May 19, 2023, 08:57:55 PM
Whatever happened to the Grandfather clause?
One would guess that in CA grandfathers right have expiration date.Right now this a CA deal and has nothing to with other states YET. CA is the only state I know that will charge you a $10.00 deposit on a $5.00 can of R134 freon our local NAPA store in Needles won't stock the stuff anymore,Steve sends people to Walmart in Ft Mohave for freon.
Quote from: luvrbus on May 19, 2023, 07:21:28 PM
The Opacity test will drive a nail in the coffin for 2 strokes. You can do one yourself with a clean white filter media ,40% of light is not going to happen on a 2 stroke engine and some 4 stroke engines,CARB is serious about this s***
Clifford, I was tied up all day so did not have a chance to poll some of the PSIP testers that have been doing opacity tests. I believe you and you are pretty straight up on the details. I just want to get it from the licensed and legal shops that do this everyday in this state and communicate with CARB regularly. Will try Monday.
We, that is commercial buses converted to motorhomes and then retitled as houscars by the CA DMV were able to be exempted by the massive tsunami that crushed nearly all 2 strokes on the road and many off road uses too.
The way it reads to me is this regulation supercedes all previous orders. It does contain its own listed exemptions of which we are not included. Out of state registered RV/motorhomes are allowed in the state but not CA registered.
Maybe there are lot of members reading along but it sure seems slim pickings that so few are potentially impacted. I'm not trying to be an alarmist but rather fact finding and reporting.
Don what you have done is poked the bear and woke him up to the fact that you own something they didn;t think of and now you will pay the price, Should of let old dogs lye. LOL :^
I need three things to keep driving this old bus.
1. A license plate that is current and legal
2. Insurance for the "motorhome"
3. A place that sells diesel and supplies
After that its all grins and giggles. Follow the law and if the vehicle is licensed you can drive it anywhere it does not violate road restrictions.
Melbo
CA has the right to pull you over for any visible smoke in a vehicle weighing over 14,000 pounds no matter where it is plated.that was put into law in 2020 you can read it chapter 5 -27153.CA has always had the right to stop you for excess smoke even if from out of state
Any police officer in any state can stop you for no reason or any reason. Happens all the time. I don't know if they just get bored or have a quota to fill. Most are busy doing something that contributes to public safety and I'm sure exhaust smoke can ruin the public's safety. I don't think I've been to CA since about 2008. I don't think there is anything there that I need to go see. I have not been stopped or bothered while traveling in the bus. And as you know clifford with an L10 I spend most of my time in the right lane well under the limit.
Melbo
Quote from: Melbo on May 20, 2023, 05:57:42 PM
Any police officer in any state can stop you for no reason or any reason. Happens all the time. I don't know if they just get bored or have a quota to fill. Most are busy doing something that contributes to public safety and I'm sure exhaust smoke can ruin the public's safety. I don't think I've been to CA since about 2008. I don't think there is anything there that I need to go see. I have not been stopped or bothered while traveling in the bus. And as you know clifford with an L10 I spend most of my time in the right lane well under the limit.
Melbo
They got Jim Smith in Needles a few years ago when he lost a injector tip on his 8v92 it was smoking bad though
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on May 20, 2023, 07:49:57 AM
Not enough grandfathers around enforcing it.
Yep not enough grandfathers for sure and to many pacifists on the war on fossil fuel can't live without it not for a long time but that don't stop them shoving it down our throats over night. Not to forget it's a ideolgy way more then a crisis. The handful of two stroke engines left in this country isn't going to kill mother earth.
When something becomes a political football you might as well just have a beer, sit back and enjoy the game. In the words of that Iglacius comic fellow: Your house has wheels! Move it out of the way!
Jim
Quote from: tr206 on May 21, 2023, 04:43:42 AM
The handful of two stroke engines left in this country isn't going to kill mother earth.
Don't know about that one as " 1.6% of U.S. adults are transgender or nonbinary – that is, their gender differs from the sex they were assigned at birth." and they are overrunning all the rules. Squeaky wheels get the grease. You Guys with 2 Strokes better Start Biotching before it's too Late.
Too many sitting on their hands. Everything is political start bitchin and voting or your going to lose. Sitting around doing nothing gets you nothing it's not rocket science.
Think about it even wiping your butt is political because your pissing off the tree huggers, animal rights, the green party because it takes energy to produce toilet paper and transporting it to getting rid of your crap takes energy. All of it will step on somebodies toes somewhere it's getting absurd.
Lot of the crap with the 2 stroke DD were brought on by the owners,DD would have a engine setup for a area and the applications and a owner always looking for more HP.here they go with bigger injectors, more heat, more oil usage and more fuel usage.Dumbest thing in the world to me is A timing a 71 series in a bus just to use bigger injectors for a few more HP
We're not in that group. Always been fine with just the way it was designed. Somewhat slow & extremely dependable...
Quote from: luvrbus on May 21, 2023, 11:45:25 AM
Lot of the crap with the 2 stroke DD were brought on by the owners,DD would have a engine setup for a area and the applications and a owner always looking for more HP.here they go with bigger injectors, more heat, more oil usage and more fuel usage.Dumbest thing in the world to me is A timing a 71 series in a bus just to use bigger injectors for a few more HP
I here yeah. But I'm right now for the few that are left you think they could be granded a waiver or grandfathered. Anyway everyone will be happy to know you won't catch me in California. I'll spend my money elsewhere. With all the other issue going on out there the state is a stinking ship anyway. It's a unfortunate reality.
This right here is almost entirely the reason I bought a '96 model bus.
Jim
Ours is a 53 and no issues in FL nor AK and everywhere between...life is good. :^
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on May 22, 2023, 06:56:47 AM
This right here is almost entirely the reason I bought a '96 model bus.
Jim
You cannot run 96 non EGR series 60 engine in CA it has to be a 2010 and later,that is why buses are so cheap now coming from CA
QuoteThe handful of two stroke engines left in this country isn't going to kill mother earth.
I agree that the impact we 2 troke busnuts have on the environment is nill. I'm not sure I support that for all two stoke engines. I have read more than once that those motors on weedwhackers and leaf blowers spew an unbelievable amount of pollutants and with the millions of hours running every day, it is plausible to me that that group of two strioke engines may indeed need to be controlled better.
Clifford is right as he's up on the war on two strokes over time. I was just on the cusp of seeing the final wave of 2 strokes phased out and did a lot of research into the timing and what equipment was going to survive.
To add insult to injury, there may be even more regulations on heavy truck motors but don't quote me on that. But maybe that is the Clean Truck Program now being phased in the next couple years. Maybe the next move from CARB is the EV only push on passenger cars pointed at big trucks.
Don don't forget the plastic bags and the pork farmers as well as Bacon being stopped. :^
In general, basically someone has to say virtually every single thing we eat, touch, breath, drink, even think is somehow toxic to our body. Just shoot yourself in the head and get over it.
I always wonder who actually make or writes and file the laws in Cali because when you drive downtown at the capitol the workers all seem to be outside in the park talking and drinking macilotoes and have their badges on until the day is over, LOL :^
Quote from: Dave5Cs on May 23, 2023, 07:05:13 AM
I always wonder who actually make or writes and file the laws in Cali because when you drive downtown at the capitol the workers all seem to be outside in the park talking and drinking macilotoes and have their badges on until the day is over, LOL :^
You been gone too long. Now, you see nobody cause they are all "working" at home, sipping those drink while sunning by the pool.
Last time we were in San Fran CA it was a little to much even for me,what a sight to see naked wrinkled up old men playing checkers in a City Park
Quote from: luvrbus on May 22, 2023, 08:28:58 AM
You cannot run 96 non EGR series 60 engine in CA it has to be a 2010 and later,that is why buses are so cheap now coming from CA
Huh, Well there go all my intensely detailed plans to visit California. Now let's see, where was it I filed those? Oh yeah in that one called "bit bucket"
Jim