I'm considering making the generator slide myself.
Curious what your thoughts may be regarding heavy duty drawer slides or linear rails.
I need the bottom of the generator to remain open as there is a maintenance compartment accessed via the bottom.
I have an onan 10kw generator.
Quote from: epretot on March 17, 2023, 07:54:05 AM
I'm considering making the generator slide myself.
Curious what your thoughts may be regarding heavy duty drawer slides or linear rails.
I need the bottom of the generator to remain open as there is a maintenance compartment accessed via the bottom.
I have an onan 10kw generator.
You need to use steel sealed cam rollers, drawer slides are are waste of time and money the 10kw weighs 700+ lbs , the vibration and weight kills the drawer slides.they work good for a while
I put wheels on the bottom of mine. In this case the enclosed skirt doubled as support for the axle shafts and I just found 4 hard rubber wheels that were 4" diameter and had a shaft bushing so they were rated for the weight++. Ran a solid rod through the side plates with a spacer tube between the wheels, wheels project enough to lift the skirt off the floor 1/4 to 1/2". Hairpins to retain the rods, pretty simple. Set one shaft back a reasonable distance from the tipping point so it could slide out farther for better access. When the wheels go past the floor the skirt grounds out and stops it.
Jim
I would prefer to have something that can cantilever beyond the opening.
The truth is, I need very little access to the top of the generator. There is no floor in the old ac compartment which allows me access to the bottom from under the bus.
Ah well that would be a bit different. My genny does cantilever out for probably close to half of it's length but with no floor you need tracks of some sort. The issue is that to get most of the unit outside you need a double track. Now if you had enough vertical clearance you could use something like barn door tracks and stack them up for the cantiliver effect. Also there are rollers made to fit inside the sides of a I beam which are often used for overhead hoists and such. You can get those for light and small section I beams and they make for a very versatile and heavy duty roller that could easily handle the load. A telescoping slide made with those would be pretty easy. There are also stud mounted rollers available in numerous sizes that are essentially a bearing on a bolt head, all you need with those is a track. The biggest issue with any of those is that your track and bearing needs to be able to handle the static/dynamic loading of travel vibration in the stowed position without creating flat spots.
Jim
V groove cam roller (cam followers) are the easiest to work with all they take is piece of angle iron with the V up for the roller track, the regular cam rollers take 2 pieces of iron 1 top and 1 bottom, The V track is easy to clean I never can keep my regular cam roller track clean on my generator slide and if I don't keep it cleaned and lubed it blows the fuse or shears the pin in my roll out actuator.
I'm leaning towards the rollers.
I hadn't really considered the v groove, but hearing how easily the ride on the peak of an angle has peaked my interest.
Yeah that sounds good. Only thing is, for cantilevered you need a track under the roller plus another one above it. Think about the load and you'll see why this is so. Once the load passes the outside roller the inside one will try to lift. That and the need for nested tracks makes it a little complicated which is why I suggested the I-beam arrangement. Channel iron could also work fine with the tapered rollers and those would be self cleaning also. It'd be pretty easy to stack channel iron for the double extension I think.
Jim
If he has the QD 10000 they are tall he may not have a enough clearance for I beams,you can cantilever one out a little over a 1 ft on a single rail if it side mounted, His 10000 is the same size as my QD 12500 even uses the same size engine mine just weighs 20 lbs more.If he does have the QD the cooling draws from the bottom where the radiator is mounted flat and they don't like a lot of changes.The fuel filter is a real pain to change on a QD mounted in side the QD housing
My generator came equipped with the mount I have, it looks like it was home made out of angle iron and steel rollers, whoever built it did a very good job.
I have a Powertech 20KW and it is on the heaver side, right around 900 lbs and this mount handles it perfectly.
It will extend out almost the complete length of the generator, making maintenance very easy.
I have included a few pictures that show the mount.
These pictures are from back when I was installing it and trying to figure out the flexible exhaust pipe and how to get the starter cables, power cables and fuel lines to work with the mount, a number of things had to be relocated.
Peter
Well...you all have given me something to think about.
@ peterbylt thanks for the pics.
I've considered this long ago but once the bus is fully solar powered, i am pulling the genny out and replacing with a small portable for days long gray days to charge house bank.
What I had come up with was using skateboard sealed bearings. They are bulletproof. Steel c channel to provide the outside, upper, and lower support. On the inside, use box or angle and drill and bolt in a line of the roller bearings.
This would not canteliever but it really simple, strong, and cheap and easy to build. What I had thought for canteliever if needed was to support externally with a fold down bracket to take the weight off the extended section. It could be hinged along the front bottom and work like a "tailgate" but would flip 180 degrees. It could have something to adjust height for uneeven ground.
Quote from: windtrader on March 23, 2023, 10:29:42 AM
I've considered this long ago but once the bus is fully solar powered, i am pulling the genny out and replacing with a small portable for days long gray days to charge house bank.
What I had come up with was using skateboard sealed bearings. They are bulletproof. Steel c channel to provide the outside, upper, and lower support. On the inside, use box or angle and drill and bolt in a line of the roller bearings.
This would not canteliever but it really simple, strong, and cheap and easy to build. What I had thought for canteliever if needed was to support externally with a fold down bracket to take the weight off the extended section. It could be hinged along the front bottom and work like a "tailgate" but would flip 180 degrees. It could have something to adjust height for uneeven ground.
You need to watch the small portables. I had a little Honda 2000 that would not run a battery charger I had, 1800 w and 15 amps is not much
Quote from: luvrbus on March 23, 2023, 11:47:40 AM
You need to watch the small portables. I had a little Honda 2000 that would run a battery charger I had 1800 w and 15 amps is not much
Same reason the Magnum Inverter has a robust 125 amp charger.
Quote from: luvrbus on March 23, 2023, 11:47:40 AM
You need to watch the small portables. I had a little Honda 2000 that would not run a battery charger I had, 1800 w and 15 amps is not much
When you have a solid lithium house bank in place, you don't need much of a generator to keep them up. The generator is not used to run any appliances, all power use is from the house bank.
Here is a typical scenario to show how portable is used.
Bus runs 24/7 on inverter
Bus lithium battery bank - 10kWSolar generator 10x 350w (3000/hr. 15kW/day)
Daily power use
Minumum draw - 3500kW (lighting, Starlink internet, refer, stove, charge phone computer, etc.)Mini split when used draws 700w
Systen has no trouble keeping up on loss of solar of a day or two. When batteries are drawn down and solar can not keep up and it looks like more gray days ahead, then the generator is used to charge up the battery bank.
A 2000 watt generator, running for a couple hours can recharge the total daily draw down. The battery bank takes up any excess need for current, not the generator, so a quite small unit does the job.
I do not camp where it is hot and cloudy so never need AC in those settings. If you do, then you need to calc if it works for those in that situation.
Hope that helps.
Don
thanks for the skateboard bearings Iidea as I want to build my own roll out for my ranger bed .
as for small genny I have a westinghouse I 2500 works great and good on gas + is very quiet .
only thing you need to do is change the oil to 100 % syn oil after brake-in and change the oil every 50 hrs as it only holds
.4 of a liter ( quart )
I use it lots
https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-iGen2500/dp/B09LRFNVKM
If you use channel iron, you don't need tapered roller bearings. Regular ball bearings will work just fine. And the heavier the load the easier the slide will work.
You have faaaar more faith in skateboard bearings than I do... I spend an inordinate amount of time on said bearings and I wouldn't trust them for A.) Any more weight than the standard use case (average human weight/4), B.) Use in a long-term high-vibration settings, C.) Significant temp swings, or D.) Exposure to significant dirt/debris.
They are pretty specifically engineered to purpose and don't take much to fail when pushed beyond that. I know how many sets my daughter and I go through for "normal" use.
I'd look for something a little more industrial, like the bearings they use for the tracks in shipping facilities. I think they are available in a very similar size.
Agree there are far stronger and more durable bearing options. Given the design load, the usage pattern, and costs of bearings in a rack for a bus generator, it still offers high value in my book. I suspect in an average year, the bearings travel about 50 feet and say, there are 30 (2x15) to take the load, that is about 25 pounds each. shock of 3-4g equates to peak load of 100lbs. Seems a reasonable spec for the application.
My cam bearing are 1-1/4in in diameter and are rated at 900 lbs ea,you can buy cam follower bearing from 7 bucks that will carry the load,a skateboard wheel wouldn't survive long with the ceramic or steel ball bearings the cam follower rollers have needle bearings like a u joint
I don't recall suggesting skateboard wheels. Four.
Quote from: Fred Mc on March 24, 2023, 05:50:02 PM
I don't recall suggesting skateboard wheels. Four.
You didn't Don has us skateboarding,anyways needle bearing carry a heavier load than a ball bearing,your wheel bearings are a big, tapered needle bearing sort of
Whatever materials one chooses, it is easy to only think about sliding it out, and designing for that brief moment...
The load on these parts is the generator bouncing/pounding/squatting on them the rest of the time, 24/7/365.
If it will roll out, it also can "bounce" , including an airborn drop, when finding the world's potholes, without vertical fastening.
Contact point of a ball bearing is mighty small.
And internet unbalanced reporting, nobody posts up the mangled mess of their failed slide, or what it took to extricate the generator after that went wrong. We only hear about the successes...
Generators are not light, they can wreck stuff. Gravity is not a fastener.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on March 25, 2023, 03:26:48 AM
Whatever materials one chooses, it is easy to only think about sliding it out, and designing for that brief moment...
The load on these parts is the generator bouncing/pounding/squatting on them the rest of the time, 24/7/365.
If it will roll out, it also can "bounce" , including an airborn drop, when finding the world's potholes, without vertical fastening.
Contact point of a ball bearing is mighty small.
And internet unbalanced reporting, nobody posts up the mangled mess of their failed slide, or what it took to extricate the generator after that went wrong. We only hear about the successes...
Generators are not light, they can wreck stuff. Gravity is not a fastener.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
They have to have a safety latch it is not a pretty sight when one takes a baggage door off turning a corner.Mine is a little different with the actuator it pulls against 2 rubber stops and a saftey bar is released by the actuator, it really is a simple design a spring loaded bar that drops in a slot and a latch that the actuator pulls to release and rolls the generator out.My Eagle used 2 pins sometimes they were a pita to line up
Quote from: luvrbus on March 25, 2023, 05:50:19 AM
They have to have a safety latch it is not a pretty sight when one takes a baggage door off turning a corner.
To your point:
I'm using the old AC compartment. That door has zero chance of stopping the generator.
The pin was something I considered. Or simply a bolt. Not a big deal to thread out every so often.
A bolt one could tighten against some type rubber mount would be best in my opinion the pins were a pain.When you install a generator on a slide, they do transfer more vibration and noise without being tight against the roll out ,my 12500 QD is 47 DB rolled in and 65 DB rolled out from the rubber stops. I am thankful it has a electric fan it would be a major job to install belts for fan,lol it is bad enough to change a air filter and fuel filter inside the sound box,it is for sure it wasn't one of Cummins best designs, my son's 8000QD is easy you can do everything for servicing from the bottom
eight years ago I build this hush box for the genset. There wasn't enough height for rollers, I used C channel to slide
and mount the unit in. I can do the maintains without moving the genset, in that time I only needed to pull it out once, remove four bolts & exhaust pipe, with a come along & dolly it's out in less then a half hour.
Quote from: silversport on March 25, 2023, 06:00:25 PM
eight years ago I build this hush box for the genset. There wasn't enough height for rollers, I used C channel to slide
and mount the unit in. I can do the maintains without moving the genset, in that time I only needed to pull it out once, remove four bolts & exhaust pipe, with a come along & dolly it's out in less then a half hour.
When generators are mounted that way they are a lot easier to cantilever out than one mounted length wise with the bus, to cantilever a sideways mounted generator takes more design since the generator head and engine both come out at the same time and the head doesn't help with the balance. With a sideways mount they can be designed where you need not disconnect anything,Kay's and Mike MCI 8 ONAN sideway mount just roll out so does mine