My engine will be worked on soon to repair its camshaft(s) and/or camshaft gears, and while it's apart I want to replace some of its DDEC sensors as a preventive measure, even though they're all working OK now. (I'll keep the old sensors as usable spares for emergencies.) The sensor I definitely want to replace now is the SRS/TRS because it's completely inaccessible behind the camshaft pulley. I'm having difficulty finding part numbers for 6V92TA sensors; even Detroit doesn't seem to publish a list of them, even in their DDEC II Troubleshooting Manual. Are the following part numbers correct, and does anyone here know the missing part numbers?
Air temperature 23515250
Coolant level 23503510
Coolant temperature
Fuel pressure
Fuel temperature
Oil pressure
Oil temperature 23518092
SRS/TRS 23503240
Turbo boost 23528418
The throttle position sensor is part of my Williams WM-526 accelerator pedal assembly, so I'll check Williams' website for that sensor's number.
I'll also buy two more valve cover gaskets (for the tall aluminum VCs): I think their part number is 5104018. Is that correct?
Many thanks, John
Can that be updated to III or IV while you are at it?
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 01, 2023, 03:58:07 AM
Can that be updated to III or IV while you are at it?
If he has a spare DDEC ll it wouldn't be worth the hassle,the wiring harness alone cost a 1000 bucks he would miss the sound of the DDEC ll too, the only good thing he would have is the ECM controlling the Jakes without the Jake controller that goes bad and are no longer made,plus the DDEC lll or lV are 12 to 32 volts where the DDEC ll is 12 volts only, alot of the ll's get fried on the 24v system's when people make a small mistake and wire one 24v.All the sensors expect the TRS you buy at any good parts store the GM cars and pickups used the same sensors
I found the following in the 92 parts book;
Turbo Boost - 12219935
oil, fuel, coolant temp - 23518092
oil, fuel, pres - 23532797
TRS - 23503240
coolant probe - 23503509 - 1/4" NPT
- 23503510 - 3/8" NPT
coolant module - 23505265
Hope this helps you. The TRS sensor needs a special tool to space it.
Quote from: luvrbus on March 01, 2023, 04:44:54 AM
If he has a spare DDEC ll it wouldn't be worth the hassle, ...
Actually I do have a spare DDEC II ECM that was in an identical Crown. I bought it because it was cheap ($300!). I follow the umbrella theory: if you have one you usually don't need it, but if you don't have one, guess what...
John
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 06:53:55 AM
I found the following in the 92 parts book;
Turbo Boost - 12219935
oil, fuel, coolant temp - 23518092
oil, fuel, pres - 23532797
TRS - 23503240
coolant probe - 23503509 - 1/4" NPT
- 23503510 - 3/8" NPT
coolant module - 23505265
Hope this helps you. The TRS sensor needs a special tool to space it.
Excellent, thank you so much! It's good that the three temperature sensors are the same and the two pressure sensors are the same: that makes sense.
Is the SRS/TRS tool the same for all 4-stroke and 2-stroke Detroits, or are they for specific engines?
John
John
As far as I know the 2 stroke is the same. I can get you the number from mine if you need. The 4 stroke might be different. I'm not sure as I have never worked on them.
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 12:20:27 PM
John
As far as I know the 2 stroke is the same. I can get you the number from mine if you need. The 4 stroke might be different. I'm not sure as I have never worked on them.
I've not yet found the part number for the tool, but I did find a website that gave the gap needed (0.020" / 0.5mm). If the tool's not crazy-expensive I would like to get it, even though I may use it only this one time. Yes, could you please get me the tool number whenever you can - many thanks.
I bought a genuine Detroit/Tognum SRS/TRS on eBay this morning for only $90!
John
You saved 5 bucks they are $95.00 from Detroit ,if you are looking for OEM parts there is new player in the internet game Kirby owns both Stewart.Stevenson and United Engine and sells OEM parts from their web under www.DieselDash.com
John
The tool is Kent-Moore #J-39815
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 02:33:38 PM
John
The tool is Kent-Moore #J-39815
You can make those John I have one made by Monoco Tool in OR., I have seen guys make one from a nut driver and a grinder ,they are pricey for what you get
All it is is a 1/2" piece of rod with a groove in one end.
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 03:15:45 PM
All it is is a 1/2" piece of rod with a groove in one end.
With a little fancy knurling on the end,mine wasn't worth the $50.00 I paid
Quote from: luvrbus on March 01, 2023, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 03:15:45 PM
All it is is a 1/2" piece of rod with a groove in one end.
With a little fancy knurling on the end,mine wasn't worth the $50.00 I paid
I've made fancier tools than that! I think I'll make my own: eBay has them for $65 to $134. Thanks for the suggestion!
John
Quote from: luvrbus on March 01, 2023, 04:44:54 AM
If he has a spare DDEC ll it wouldn't be worth the hassle,the wiring harness alone cost a 1000 bucks he would miss the sound of the DDEC ll too, the only good thing he would have is the ECM controlling the Jakes without the Jake controller that goes bad and are no longer made
My bus came with a simple cube relay instead of a Jake controller whatsit, and it works just fine! I don't think it's original, so maybe the school district replaced the controller with a relay. The only thing unusual is that the relay has a diode or resistor between two of its pins, presumably to stop pulses going back to the ECM and damaging it.
John
You are right about the diode on the relay. When the coil collapses it can cause a surge. If you are going to make your own TRS tool I can measure mine for you.
Even the buffer switches for the mechanical engines have the diode. With 1 relay is your Jakes 1 or 2 stages?
Quote from: luvrbus on March 01, 2023, 06:49:17 PM
Even the buffer switches for the mechanical engines have the diode. With 1 relay is your Jakes 1 or 2 stages?
I had it working as a two-stage Jake, but the first stage (one bank only) does tiddly-squat with a 6V92, so it's a single-stage now. The relay is triggered when the ECM makes a ground connection when it decides that Jakes could be used (i.e. engine at no-fuel, above idle RPM), then it provides power to the Jake switch. The only downside is that the relay is being activated even when I don't actually switch on the Jakes, but so far it's not failed, and if it did fail it's easy to put in a new relay. I also installed an emergency Jake switch that sends power to the Jakes directly, bypassing the ECM/relay/Jake switch, so if the relay failed while descending a long steep grade I could still put the Jakes on.
John
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 04:32:17 PM
You are right about the diode on the relay. When the coil collapses it can cause a surge. If you are going to make your own TRS tool I can measure mine for you.
Yes, that would be great if you could measure the shaft diameter, and the width and depth of the end cut. Thanks so much!
John
John
We are out all day today but I will do it tomorrow.
Quote from: Iceni John on March 01, 2023, 10:41:44 PM
I had it working as a two-stage Jake, but the first stage (one bank only) does tiddly-squat with a 6V92, so it's a single-stage now. The relay is triggered when the ECM makes a ground connection when it decides that Jakes could be used (i.e. engine at no-fuel, above idle RPM), then it provides power to the Jake switch. The only downside is that the relay is being activated even when I don't actually switch on the Jakes, but so far it's not failed, and if it did fail it's easy to put in a new relay. I also installed an emergency Jake switch that sends power to the Jakes directly, bypassing the ECM/relay/Jake switch, so if the relay failed while descending a long steep grade I could still put the Jakes on.
John
I just hook the Jakes up direct no relays and let the driver control the Jakes when the controller goes bad.2 strokes don't have enough oil pressure at idle to keep the Jakes engaged so it is not a problem when stopped at a light, if left on the engine will stubble on takeoff and the driver knows his Jake switch is on. You are right 2 stage Jakes are not much on a 2 stroke engine
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 01, 2023, 11:18:51 PM
John
We are out all day today but I will do it tomorrow.
OK, many thanks.
Here is the dimensions for the tool.
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on March 02, 2023, 06:34:47 PM
Here is the dimensions for the tool.
Perfect! Thank you so much for that drawing. I think I even have a short piece of 9/16" 6061 rod that I can use for it.
John
John
If I had known what the tool was before I bought it I would have made my own. I am sure a grinder and a piece of scrap rod you will have no problem making it.