I know that turbos on diesels have been the norm for many years now and they seem to be fine. However, what about gasoline engines. Here's why I ask. Unfortunately, my '21 NISSAN ALTIMA with only 14k and 13 months old was rearended on the expressway Friday evening and totaled. So I now need to buy a new car. It's likely if possible that I will get another ALTIMA just like my former one which had a 2.5L non turbo. However, my rental is a '22 CHEVROLET MALIBU that has a 1.5L turbo. Nice enough car but many have said to avoid turbo gasoline engines if possible. So I'm just considering things before the settlement check comes. BTW, that turbo in the MALIBU has 28 less HP than the 2.5L non turbo in the ALTIMA. So take a guess which engine will probably last longer. Perhaps these new turbo engines are ok after all but I would like some perspective anyway.
The 2.7 Eco boost turbo engine pushes a full-size Ford 150 pickup down the road like 5 L engine and I don't know of anyone that has trouble with one lol and I don't even like Ford pickups but the turbo gasoline engines last just as long if not longer than the N'A engines of yesterday with more power on less gasoline
I just sold my 1.4l turbo 4 cylinder Buick Encore. Put 40k on it. Awd, 30 mpg average. No problems except a bad coil pack under warranty. Will not hesitate to buy another turbo gas engine. Remember, they have used turbo gas engines for years. Recall the Corvair Spyder? Were many others. Regular oil changes, with appropriate Mobil synthetic oil.
My 2019 Ford Ranger has a 2.3 eco boost ( turbo ) and is a rocket if you want to floor it but a lot of that is the 10 speed auto .
Yet if I drive it for gas mileage it is amazing
My wifes suv is the same with a 2.5 turbo and a 8 speed dual clutch auto
and she gets a bit better mpg then my truck
2021 Santa fe Caligraphy
every truck or car should have a 10 speed auto until the electric vehicles will work up here in the frozen tundra
Milton, hoping you and your family are OK, after such a bad accident...
Thanks I appreciate that. I'm thankful to our Lord since I wasn't hurt just shaken.
I'm a life long bachelor so I was the only one in the car. I really loved that car too so that's why I would like to get another new ALTIMA or a TOYOTA CAMRY as an alternate choice. The Milwaukee County Sheriff's deputy who took care of me was an absolutely wonderful young lady. For safety I had to wait in her squad car and she got most of my things out of the car for me. I discovered the next day that she even took the thumb drive out of the dash for me. I had to get the rest of the stuff out at the tow lot anyway but it's nice that she did more than she had to. But hey, now I can brag that I got to ride in the back of a squad car for the first time in my life.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 08, 2022, 11:26:56 AM
Perhaps these new turbo engines are ok after all but I would like some perspective anyway.
Milton -With the ECMs controlling everything on engines nowadays, I wouldn't worry about a turbo on a gas engine. The combination of power and fuel mileage they're producing is pretty amazing compared to yesteryear's.
Back in April of 1962, Chevrolet introduced the Corvair Monza Spyder, the very first turbocharged US production vehicle, with Oldsmobile releasing the Jetfire turbo a couple weeks later. The Chevy flat six produced 150 hp out of 145 cubic inches, the V-8 Olds 215 hp from 215 cu in.
Pre-ignition, or "ping" as we used to call it, was a real problem with these early turbos. Olds had their "Turbo Rocket Fluid" (similar to a water-injection system) to keep the pre-ignition under control, but when you ran out of fluid, you ran out of boost.
Chevy took a different approach by setting the initial ignition timing at 24º BTDC, then using a pressure-retard device to retard the timing as the boost came on. It looked just like the old vacuum advance units, and there were more than a few turbos destroyed because someone used the wrong one. The other clever thing Chevy did was design the muffler in such a way that under full turbo boost starting at about 4500 rpm, back-pressure in the muffler would increase to the point that above 5000, the turbo would cavitate, thus limiting the amount of boost. Very clever engineering for those days!
But we've come a long way since then, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a gas turbo today, if I was in the market. Personally, I'm saddened that VW decided to pull their TDIs out of the US market after the Dieselgate FUBAR, as that 2.0L turbo diesel was a stout engine that would run forever sipping fuel in the process.
Glad you're ok after the fender bender, and good luck shopping for a replacement.
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
RJ
Very true. They have indeed come a long way. There is was a perception that they put out twice as much heat as a non turbo but that's what a cooling system is for.
The FORD F150 seems to sell more of them with the turbo V6 as opposed to the traditional V8 or V6 so they can't be all bad. Sure FORD has it's bad problems but that's a separate issue. I'm still more comfortable with a non turbo but you guys have given me some good perspective if I have to get a car with a turbo(MALIBU) and less to be concerned about.
Don't know about the back pressure thing on muffler. The hot setup back then was using them on current v8's. Used them on my 1969 Chevy Nova 375 hp 396. They had a nice throaty sound, 2 1/2 inch inlet and outlet which was rare for compact auto mufflers then, and low restriction.
Please let me chime in with a question, since there's so much knowledge here. I'm also in the market for a new car. Like current car, plan to keep for 15 years, 150 K miles. Still some business trips, thus occasional mountains, and 85 MPH speed limits. At my age, probably the last car purchase.
I also come from the days of 6V71's vs. 8V71's. Comparing 2 fishbowls, 8V didn't have to work as hard and lasted longer - costing less long term. I also bought a fleet with 6V92 Turbos, eating the extra fuel over the 6V71 for long term maintenance savings. (thus, bus-related).
Lincoln Nautilus (Ford Edg platform). Options are base 2.0 Liter 4 cylinder, or 2.7 twin turbo V6 (adds $2,700). Easy decision, bigger engine. But, also seems to require 4WD, total add becomes $5k.
Now, decision is harder, since 4WD has more moving parts (maintenance $). Dealer says I shouldn't waste money on V6, but they also do 100% of my maintenance (where their profit is).
Thoughts? And thanks.
Arthur
Both engines should have plenty of power. Unless you really want or need all wheel drive, you may as well stick with the standard engine. Test drive them both. I would say also that a v6 is slightly smoother but 4's these days are hardly the crude and noisy engines of years ago. Since they have so much more power, they loaf along at highway speeds now. My ALTIMA would go 70 and the engine was turning at less than 2000rpm.
4wd or awd depends on where you live. Nobody will buy a used fwd in NE. The front differential and transfer case is computer controlled to apply when it sees a certain amount of slippage, so not the past penality with 4wd or awd.
In today's hi-tech world the transmissions control the engines, the transmission tells the engine what it needs
One think you may consider before buying a new car is to research some videos on YouTube where mechanics talk about different engines and the problems some have. Apparently, there are some well know duds that have pretty serious issues. It is pretty specific to particular engine families and specific years too.
Good luck
Thank you. Two cars ago was a V8, current a V6. Stunning to think that a 4 cylinder engine would do the job. Fortunately, at my age, I'll be gone before they get down to a squirrel cage with two tame chipmunks.
When I bought the fleet of RTS' with a 6V92TA I was a little skeptical, but it was the biggest engine option. 50 years of that mindset is hard to change.
I think the upcharge for the bigger engine will be worth it for peace of mind, but not if it requires 4 wheel drive and associated purchase (and subsequent maintenance) costs. Fortunately, I have a good dealer that knows my value is 15 years of service -- thus they want to keep me happy. Good point about driving both to see.
Thanks again for the input.
Arthur
When a engine crosses over to the marine world you know that is a good engine ,the 4 banger "Iron Mike" Gm made was a tough little engine ,1000's of the old "Iron Mike" engines still up and going in boats every week end here on the river
Quote from: luvrbus on December 11, 2022, 08:33:40 AM
When a engine crosses over to the marine world you know that is a good engine ,the 4 banger "Iron Mike" Gm made was a tough little engine ,1000's of the old "Iron Mike" engines still up and going in boats every week end here on the river
That statement about the marine world put a smile on my face as we're running a 1969 Gray Marine 671 in our bus. It purrs like a screaming jamming since rebuild. :^
Is that the old "IRON DUKE"? Those were tough old engines. However, I rented a couple of cars back in the 1990's and they were rough and noisy and made an otherwise nice car unpleasant to drive or ride in. I think those cars were OLDSMOBILE CIERA or CHEVROLET CELEBRITY.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 12, 2022, 04:50:45 AM
Is that the old "IRON DUKE"? Those were tough old engines. However, I rented a couple of cars back in the 1990's and they were rough and noisy and made an otherwise nice car unpleasant to drive or ride in. I think those cars were OLDSMOBILE CIERA or CHEVROLET CELEBRITY.
They were called by different names they were all cast iron and were popular in the Chevy and GM compact pickups,now they add more cams,valves and belts to smooth the engines out, 4 grand to change a timing belt as a PM, with a plastic water pump inside the engine? as a Harley owner I like the rough idle
Well the old DETROIT S50 was a pretty good engine but some of those first one's were extremely rough. Perhaps that was the respective bus builders fault but that engine didn't last very long in production anyway. I did ride on an MCI either MC9 or 102A3 with a S50 repower and it was much smoother than the one's in the MCTS's NEW FLYERS here in Milwaukee that they bought in the mid 1990's.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 12, 2022, 07:23:29 AM
Well the old DETROIT S50 was a pretty good engine but some of those first one's were extremely rough. Perhaps that was the respective bus builders fault but that engine didn't last very long in production anyway. I did ride on an MCI either MC9 or 102A3 with a S50 repower and it was much smoother than the one's in the MCTS's NEW FLYERS here in Milwaukee that they bought in the mid 1990's.
75% of the series 50 built were CNG engines and they were rough with the John Deere designed oil pump balance shafts ,the series 60 CNG was rough too ,M/B and John Deere gave up on the CNG engines Cummins is the only player in the game now and they are not that great just ask the UPS and Waste Mangement drivers.My ISX 15 is not smooth till you put it to work, it likes to work and is not happy unless it is working
I used to do part time work for a florist during the holidays years ago. He had a 1962 ChevyII with a 3 speed on the column and the 153 4 cylinder ( iron duke). it vibrated at off idle and at high speed. OK at cruise. Mileage was about the same as the better 194 6 cyl, but the 4 cyl was Chevy's cheapest car.
I had a couple of those engines in cars back in the nineties. The dealers always referred to them as "Iron Dukes". They were fairly dependable and lasted 200,000 miles plus.
Quote from: chessie4905 on December 12, 2022, 08:47:44 AM
I used to do part time work for a florist during the holidays years ago. He had a 1962 ChevyII with a 3 speed on the column and the 153 4 cylinder ( iron duke). it vibrated at off idle and at high speed. OK at cruise. Mileage was about the same as the better 194 6 cyl, but the 4 cyl was Chevy's cheapest car.
I have the inline 6 in my Envoy it is ruff on Idle but I think it is going to outlast me,the smart guys at the parts tell me I need a map sensor lol that engine doesn't have a Map sensor like other electronic engines
I had an 03 Envoy with the 6 cylinder. I believe it was an inline Northstar. It would really run if needed. Sold it shortly after 200,000 miles. Never burned a bit of oil. Used Mobil 1 synthetic and changed it every 10,000 miles.
Quote from: chessie4905 on December 12, 2022, 12:24:17 PM
I had an 03 Envoy with the 6 cylinder. I believe it was an inline Northstar. It would really run if needed. Sold it shortly after 200,000 miles. Never burned a bit of oil. Used Mobil 1 synthetic and changed it every 10,000 miles.
Mine is a 2005 I keep it because being a 4 wheel drive it so easy to tow ,lol I never check the oil in it I just change it,the thing has never used oil
Quote from: luvrbus on December 12, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
Mine is a 2005 I keep it because being a 4 wheel drive it so easy to tow ,lol I never check the oil in it I just change it,the thing has never used oil
We recently purchased a 2008 Envoy SLT 4x4 with the IL 6 and left it up in the Tok AK garage. The coolant is good for -68°F and the battery was removed and placed in the rafters with a Coleman 30W solar maintainer on it. It maybe a couple to three years until we'll be back.up there so dropped the collision with basic required liability and full comp. We'll see how it likes being stored when we get back up that way - & if diesel doesn't drop a whole lot by then we'll fly up thus the reason for stashing the Envoy... :^
UPDATE. Yesterday, I bought a '23 NISSAN ALTIMA. I will take delivery Saturday.
I pondered getting a CHEVROLET MALIBU given that they had many more available. The ALTIMA S I bought was the last one they had so I was lucky to snap it up. Like I said, I really liked my now destroyed ALTIMA so I felt comfortable getting another one just like it for the most part. It has the same 188HP 2.5L non turbo. While the MALIBU 1.5L 160HP turbo was fine for around town, it did tend to rev above 2k at times while on the freeway 65-70mph in contrast with the 2.5L where it rarely poked above 2k unless I would really push it. To me that meant less wear and noise and I think better MPG. But you guys were great in your perspective so in the future turbo won't be an issue either way. Thanks again.