Hello all,
I had a thread a while ago that you all helped me with and on out trip form MN to OK all was well. We stayed in OK for a month and when I went to start the DDEC dispaly didn't come on right away. I started anyway and aired up then shut off and started again and the DDEC lit up.
We drove to Canadian, Texas yesterday and again the DDEC isn't lighting up, and the 'Check Engine' and 'Stop Engine' lights aren't lighting either when I turn on main power.
Unable to start. This might possibly be because I didn't plug in the block heater last night (I normally do, just got lazy), but could it be something else since the 'Check Engine and 'Stop Engine' lights aren't lighting? I'm pretty sure that they lit yesterday even though the DDEC wasn't lit.
Hope that makes sense.
Any insight or ideas?
Seb
Check the DDEC unit for a bad or corroded ground. Bad connections are the electronic engines worst enemy.
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 21, 2022, 12:05:05 PM
Check the DDEC unit for a bad or corroded ground. Bad connections are the electronic engines worst enemy.
As with anything electrical. Grounds are often the culprit. I looked at the DDEC computer on the side of the engine and see no ground wire coming off of it where do you think would be the best place to look?
Thanks
Seb
As I have been thinking about this today, in the past I could start it without the DDEC lighting up and then after air up shut down and when I start again the DDEC lights up. Now I am unable to start.
It's almost 60 degree here so I don't think it's the temp, especially since no cylinders are even trying.
Any ideas?
Thanks
I have ddec IV the ground comes thru wire harness to computer. Search Detroit diesel DDEC IV wiring diagram it will give you wire number and location on ddec computer. The ground is internal to computer case.
Quote from: robertglines1 on November 21, 2022, 01:16:55 PM
I have ddec IV the ground comes thru wire harness to computer. Search Detroit diesel DDEC IV wiring diagram it will give you wire number and location on ddec computer. The ground is internal to computer case.
Inside the DDEC Box mounted on the side of the engine is what you're saying, I think? I'm very new to MCI. Bought this rig a year ago -- learning.
So, must take the DDEC box off the side of the engine, open it an look inside? Am I on the right track?
Thanks
Seb
Aaaarggg! OK, this is really annoying me.
Just because I'm a guy who always has hope, I tried to start the rig again and DDEC lit and the Stop and Warning lights lit like usual and she barked right off like normal.
Since it's late in the day and we don't like driving at night I just let it air up and put some 2 x 8 under the tires to be more level for the night and shut her down. Then I went to start again and NO DDEC lights or Stop or Warning lights.
I sure would like to get to the bottom of this.
Before it started this time, the only possible change is that I was looking at the DDEC mounted on the side of the engine and wiggling the wires a bit as I looked at how to disconnect them. Don't know if that was a factor or not.
If anyone has any ideas I sure would appreciate it. We are "hopefully" going to get started early tomorrow and get to Albuquerque, or final destination for a while, so that we aren't stressed since we need to be there by this weekend.
Would this be an issue that a guy with a computer could figure it out, or...?
Could it be the the Computer is acting up and needs to be replaced?
Thanks
Seb
DO NOT OPEN THE COMPUTER. You should get a DDEC book. I thought last time you were having the same issues. The wires that feed the power and grounds associated should be gone over and cleaned and electrical grease applied to them. When you have a not light issue have somebody watch the dash while you move wires associated with the power source to the computer. Usually near the batteries. The breakers for the DDEC computer come directly from the batteries. Grounds also directly from the batteries negative side
Have you ever noticed was the transmission shifting pad lit when the engine wasn't lit ? ,a shift pad with glitches or no power on a B500 will stop all functions on a DDEC and will not let one start
no look inside...!! nothing to see. sealed. just trying to provide path of power and ground to ecm.. you need to hook up with someone that understands ddec--- bus nut --- truck nut---that is a high dollar ecm prob over 1500$$$ used minimum plus possible need to be programed.. Maybe a local charter operator?? Bob
Quote from: luvrbus on November 21, 2022, 03:46:15 PM
Have you ever noticed was the transmission shifting pad lit when the engine wasn't lit ? ,a shift pad with glitches or no power on a B500 will stop all functions on a DDEC and will not let one start
Never noticed, but will take note of that next time.
Thanks
Seb
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 21, 2022, 03:34:42 PM
DO NOT OPEN THE COMPUTER. You should get a DDEC book. I thought last time you were having the same issues. The wires that feed the power and grounds associated should be gone over and cleaned and electrical grease applied to them. When you have a not light issue have somebody watch the dash while you move wires associated with the power source to the computer. Usually near the batteries. The breakers for the DDEC computer come directly from the batteries. Grounds also directly from the batteries negative side
Up till today it would start when the DDEC wasn't lit up. Today it wouldn't even start.
OK, good suggestion to have somebody watch the dash wile moving wires.
The breakers for the DDEC -- are they in the battery box, or where would be the best place to look for those? Assuming I find them and connectors/terminals, I am guessing I can disconnect, clean apply electrical grease and reconnect?
Yes, I should get a DDEC book. I have so much to learn...
Thank you so much for the help.
Quote from: luvrbus on November 21, 2022, 03:46:15 PM
Have you ever noticed was the transmission shifting pad lit when the engine wasn't lit ? ,a shift pad with glitches or no power on a B500 will stop all functions on a DDEC and will not let one start
Quote from: Sebulba on November 21, 2022, 04:14:51 PM
Never noticed, but will take note of that next time.
Thanks
Seb
I just tried it. When I turned on the main power switch just now. No DDEC, no Stop or Warning lights, but both "N"s showed on the shift pad.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Seb
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 21, 2022, 03:34:42 PM
DO NOT OPEN THE COMPUTER. You should get a DDEC book. I thought last time you were having the same issues. The wires that feed the power and grounds associated should be gone over and cleaned and electrical grease applied to them. When you have a not light issue have somebody watch the dash while you move wires associated with the power source to the computer. Usually near the batteries. The breakers for the DDEC computer come directly from the batteries. Grounds also directly from the batteries negative side
I see these covers with terminals under them. Is the DDEC 12 volts? Are these the one that may be the culprits. All of the others that I can see are quite large cables, these look like 10 or 12 guage or so to me.
The power and ground usually are 12 gauge wires. Luvrbus would have more knowledge with MCIs then I do. My Bus is a GMC so the DDEC set up probably is a little different.
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 21, 2022, 04:50:50 PM
The power and ground usually are 12 gauge wires. Luvrbus would have more knowledge with MCIs then I do. My Bus is a GMC so the DDEC set up probably is a little different.
Sure, I understand about the familiarity with MCI vs GMC etc. I sure appreciate your help.
So those may be the power wires to the DDEC.
Would it be any problem unhooking them to clean them? IE: losing power to the computer for a few minutes or a half an hour while wire brushing and whatever?
Thanks
Seb
I took the covers off of these and the connections look good and have electrical grease on them. Maybe looks can be deceiving though?
I don't want to open up a can of worms by unhooking them to clean them up. If there would be no harm in disconnecting them and cleaning them I will happily do it.
Thanks
Seb
Do you have the ddec III, IV troubleshooting manual? Did you download a copy? It is available from several sources.
I found them at ddecIV troubleshooting tree. If you already have it, never mind.
Quote from: chessie4905 on November 21, 2022, 05:54:32 PM
Do you have the ddec III, IV troubleshooting manual? Did you download a copy? It is available from several sources.
I found them at ddecIV troubleshooting tree. If you already have it, never mind.
Sorry, no I didn't know of this manual. Sounds like a good resource. Let me see if I can find it.
I'm not sure which version I have. I have a 1997 MCI 102 D 3 with a series 60 engine. Is that DDEC III/IV?
Thanks
Seb
The trouble shooting manual is 500 pages thick and are sort of useless till you get the concept on how the DDEC works, the DDEC application manual is more help if you can find one
Quote from: luvrbus on November 21, 2022, 06:41:09 PM
The trouble shooting manual is 500 pages thick and are sort of useless till you get the concept on how the DDEC works, the DDEC application manual is more help if you can find one
Hello,
I just downloaded it and have started the gripping reading. I did buy that paper book on eBay that you or somebody said would help me understand the concept. It is ok on concept, but useless on specifics as it is dealing with GM trucks, it looks like.
Anyway, this troubleshooting manual is quite comprehensive. To get the lights to flash codes I am supposed to press a diagnostic button or something, but I don't know what or where that is.
At least I have something I can do now. Today was quite frustrating since I didn't know where to start.
It seems to me that it could be a failing connection somewhere. Of course those will continue to fail and get worse, and not better.
One other symptom or behavior I have noticed is that once it's all working and we hit the road it never causes problems thru the day, warmed up, etc. In other words, when we stop for fuel or whatever, it always behaves. This problem has only raised its head on cold start.
Don't know if that is a clue or not.
Thanks again
Seb
My DDEC II shut the engine off going down the road. Circuit breaker had given up ghost. No lights and cranked but no start. Replaced that breaker and hasn't missed a beat in seven years.
The procedure to get codes involves a switch on the dash, detailed in MCI materials.
You really, really, need to get a scanner for your electronic bus systems, one that will clear codes. You have both a DDEC III and an WTEC transmission to talk to.
A busnut is a sitting duck at roadside without a means to read the computers.
You cannot be coached to a repair, without hard information.
The roadside pirates will liberate thousands of your dollars, for something you could have done for yourself.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Maybe Lee has an idea. When you get no lights on the dash use a voltmeter and check the circuit breakers to see if there is voltage on both sides. Failing circuit breaker is a potential problem you might have. No voltage to computer if will never start. You probably have a DDEC III but the DDEC IV is virtually the same. Just a little more upgrades. I have a DDEC III/IV troubleshooting guide (500 double sided pages) which I can get copied if you want to pay for it plus shipping. No idea of the cost. Next time you have lights operate every switch you have to see which one makes the CEL and SEL (red and Yellow lights) flash out any codes. Code 25 is 2 flashes and a pause then 5 flashes. 25 means all is okay. You have to have a switch (momentary type) that will make the lights flash. You can call me if you want at 905 873 8929 Bill.
95% of problems with a DDEC is always on the OEM side the Detroit side of the ECM is usually good or bad,when people start cutting wires and removing OEM add on without delating those from the ECM you have problems.A Prolink will delete a few if they were preprogramed which most are not,your problem could be simple like the kneeling option and a scanner will not flash a code for OEM equipment.I have a stack of trouble shooting manuals for the DDEC and all I ever use is a blow up schematic of the Detroit responsibility and the OEM responsibility, when the wiring leaves the ECM it is a OEM issue like a chassis computer if you have one on D3
From your latest description, You may have an intermittent connection issue with your ignition switch. When it works you have no issues, but when you shut it off, and try and restart it, maybe yes, maybe no. It could be as simple as cycling the switch a few times to get going. That may work a few times for you. Good luck
When B&B would do a repowers on buses or rewires on a burnt Prevost,when you saw Van with 50 rolls of wire, bags of Deutsh pins and barrels business was picking up lol.Van made it look easy building a harness 3 inches around, I don't have that much patience but when he was finished it would fire off
Look on the right side of the DDEC unit mounted on the motor. It will have two plugs on the right side. Disconnect the upper plug. It's a bit tricky to get a flat blade in there and release the catch.
It's not the plug with the bolt in the center.
It's the same setup whether you have a DDEC III or DDEC IV.
When you get it loose, look at the wires on the back. Mine is easy, I have red and black. You can trace them into the plug. RED is hot, Black is ground. With the ignition on, check for voltage going to the computer. https://www.google.com/search?q=detroit+12.7+ecm+wiring+diagram&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS846US847&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ALiCzsbBX9iEDRQNFlhaNJ3z73KqdbMFAg%3A1669162633407&ei=iWZ9Y-msGLafqtsP87WwkAE&oq=ddec+iii+wiring+diagram+pdf&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYBTIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwA0oECEEYAFAAWABg6ERoAnAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQDIAQjAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=Mt_eTPL6s-2shM&imgdii=q92QuMnvCRT6nM
Don't go flying by the basics. When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras. The intermittent nature of your problem does not indicate a failing ECM. When the check engine and stop engine lights don't come on, the first place to look is to see if the ECM is actually getting power. By checking at the power supply connection you will start a methodical process of finding the problem.
Now if it's not getting power, you start working backwards through breakers and relays all the way to the ignition.
When you say the DDEC lights up, are you talking about the PRO Driver display? If so, then it will show computer errors if you have them. It will not tell you that you don't have power to the computer, cause obviously the computer is not alive.
Seb. Check you messages.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on November 22, 2022, 04:42:35 AM
My DDEC II shut the engine off going down the road. Circuit breaker had given up ghost. No lights and cranked but no start. Replaced that breaker and hasn't missed a beat in seven years.
We'll, that was an easy fix, good on you.
Later post will explain my day
Seb
Quote from: buswarrior on November 22, 2022, 05:59:44 AM
The procedure to get codes involves a switch on the dash, detailed in MCI materials.
You really, really, need to get a scanner for your electronic bus systems, one that will clear codes. You have both a DDEC III and an WTEC transmission to talk to.
A busnut is a sitting duck at roadside without a means to read the computers.
You cannot be coached to a repair, without hard information.
The roadside pirates will liberate thousands of your dollars, for something you could have done for yourself.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
All makes perfect sense.
I agree about getting a scanner. There was a recent thread that discussed this. I still wasn't sure what was the best one to get. If you have an opinion on that, I'm all ears.
Thanks for chiming in.
Later post will exain my day...
Seb
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 22, 2022, 06:03:47 AM
Maybe Lee has an idea. When you get no lights on the dash use a voltmeter and check the circuit breakers to see if there is voltage on both sides. Failing circuit breaker is a potential problem you might have. No voltage to computer if will never start. You probably have a DDEC III but the DDEC IV is virtually the same. Just a little more upgrades. I have a DDEC III/IV troubleshooting guide (500 double sided pages) which I can get copied if you want to pay for it plus shipping. No idea of the cost. Next time you have lights operate every switch you have to see which one makes the CEL and SEL (red and Yellow lights) flash out any codes. Code 25 is 2 flashes and a pause then 5 flashes. 25 means all is okay. You have to have a switch (momentary type) that will make the lights flash. You can call me if you want at 905 873 8929 Bill.
Hello Bill,
Thanks for your insightful post.
Yes, LuvrBus mentioned that troubleshooting guide. This morning I use it and got going. Didn't actually find anything wrong, but in the process of working through the troubleshooting procedure I took wires off of the battery, the ground wiggled and was not tight. I wire brushed them all and cleaned the up and reatache, both + and -. Next it wanted me to check the fuses. I pulled them, that looked fine but I did a continuity test and the are ok, I cleaned tirminals and put together. After every step I turned on the Main switch, up to this point no change, but still good to clean them up. The next step in the guide was to pull the top right plug of the DDEC, the one with 5 terminals and check voltage on 2 terminals. It tested fine, but this time when I hit the switch, I hade lights and barked off.
Since we were running, we left and came to Santa Fe without shutting down, 447 miles. After we got parked and ok I shut down and 15 minutes later it started again.
Do I have it solved? I don't know, I didn't actually find anything wrong, but I did clean some things up and plug and un plug some things
Time will tell.
As for the switch to get the codes. I do have a momentary switch that lights all lights on the dash, I assumed to tell if the bulbed are all functioning. Maybe that is the one to get the codes? I guess, I hold that down and watch for the flashes?
We'll that was an interesting few days.
We are here for a few days and then need to go the Albuquerque. I will probably check tomorrow and see if we can start. And go from there.
Thanks for the help
Seb
Quote from: luvrbus on November 22, 2022, 06:22:46 AM
95% of problems with a DDEC is always on the OEM side the Detroit side of the ECM is usually good or bad,when people start cutting wires and removing OEM add on without delating those from the ECM you have problems.A Prolink will delete a few if they were preprogramed which most are not,your problem could be simple like the kneeling option and a scanner will not flash a code for OEM equipment.I have a stack of trouble shooting manuals for the DDEC and all I ever use is a blow up schematic of the Detroit responsibility and the OEM responsibility, when the wiring leaves the ECM it is a OEM issue like a chassis computer if you have one on D3
Hmmm.... Clear as mud, well, maybe a little clearer.
OEM, kneeling function, ok, whel chair lift?
I had one, it is removed now, although I did it very carefully and that was 8 months and many miles ago.
This problem has, for the most part, been with me since the 4th day we owned it about a year ago. The only change is that what happened in the past was that the DDEC would not light, but I could still start. Now the Red and Yellow light fail to light and cannot start.
Thank you :^ for you input.
I do appreciate your vast knowledge about these beasts and am doing my best to assimilate all.
Seb
Quote from: azdieselman on November 22, 2022, 03:09:47 PM
From your latest description, You may have an intermittent connection issue with your ignition switch. When it works you have no issues, but when you shut it off, and try and restart it, maybe yes, maybe no. It could be as simple as cycling the switch a few times to get going. That may work a few times for you. Good luck
I agree that it seems to intermittent. The only discirnable pattern I can see is that it only happens on cold start. It has never been an issue once on the road, although today I just played it safe and didn't shut down till we got here and won't need to move for a few days.
Ignition switch you mentioned? I assume you mean the main power rocker switch? I guess I wouldn't be averse to just replace that one with a brand spanking new one. No telling how many thousand times it had cycled and maybe it's just worn out. Then it's good for as long as I need it.
Would that be a part to talk to Luke about, or?...
Thanks for your help
Seb
Quote from: luvrbus on November 22, 2022, 03:46:24 PM
When B&B would do a repowers on buses or rewires on a burnt Prevost,when you saw Van with 50 rolls of wire, bags of Deutsh pins and barrels business was picking up lol.Van made it look easy building a harness 3 inches around, I don't have that much patience but when he was finished it would fire off
Wow, that is cool. It's great to have knowledgeable and highly skilled people around. Alot of these skills at dying, unfortunately.
Thanks
Seb
Quote from: RichardEntrekin on November 22, 2022, 04:24:36 PM
Look on the right side of the DDEC unit mounted on the motor. It will have two plugs on the right side. Disconnect the upper plug. It's a bit tricky to get a flat blade in there and release the catch.
It's not the plug with the bolt in the center.
It's the same setup whether you have a DDEC III or DDEC IV.
When you get it loose, look at the wires on the back. Mine is easy, I have red and black. You can trace them into the plug. RED is hot, Black is ground. With the ignition on, check for voltage going to the computer. https://www.google.com/search?q=detroit+12.7+ecm+wiring+diagram&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS846US847&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ALiCzsbBX9iEDRQNFlhaNJ3z73KqdbMFAg%3A1669162633407&ei=iWZ9Y-msGLafqtsP87WwkAE&oq=ddec+iii+wiring+diagram+pdf&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYBTIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwAzIKCAAQRxDWBBCwA0oECEEYAFAAWABg6ERoAnAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQDIAQjAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=Mt_eTPL6s-2shM&imgdii=q92QuMnvCRT6nM
Don't go flying by the basics. When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras. The intermittent nature of your problem does not indicate a failing ECM. When the check engine and stop engine lights don't come on, the first place to look is to see if the ECM is actually getting power. By checking at the power supply connection you will start a methodical process of finding the problem.
Now if it's not getting power, you start working backwards through breakers and relays all the way to the ignition.
When you say the DDEC lights up, are you talking about the PRO Driver display? If so, then it will show computer errors if you have them. It will not tell you that you don't have power to the computer, cause obviously the computer is not alive.
Hello Richard, The procedure that I followed in the troubleshooting guide basically mimiced what you mentioned in the first part of you post. See above post for more details.
Yes, when I say the DDEC doesn't light, I am talking about the Pro Driver display. Sorry if I was using confusing terminology. I'm only a year into this beast, and there is aot to learn.
So the Pro Driver display show errors? Hmmm. I've never messed with it. Will they display automatically, or do I have do something?
Thanks a million
Seb
So you are talking about the Prodriver and not the SEL and CEL red and yellow lights on the bus dash from the main engine computer. The Prodriver is run off the DDL connector where you retrieve codes with a Prolink. It does read codes, keep track of mileage etc but should never stop the engine from starting. When you can't start and no SEL and CEL lights on the dash the main computer isn't getting power. That is the small plug you just had off the engine computer. Sounds like a bad connection there. Clean them well and dieelectric grease. Be carefull not to bend the pins. Remove fuses first.
The LCD displays doesn't work sometimes in cold weather, the Pro driver is nothing to worry about, plug the engine heater in when cold and drive on,the ProDriver is a option like a Silverleaf not a necessity, thanks Richard.The reason it starts the second time in cold weather is because the engine soaked up heat from the previous try. Instructions for the ProDriver can be found in most series 60 owner's manuals fwiw
Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 22, 2022, 09:14:57 PM
So you are talking about the Prodriver and not the SEL and CEL red and yellow lights on the bus dash from the main engine computer. The Prodriver is run off the DDL connector where you retrieve codes with a Prolink. It does read codes, keep track of mileage etc but should never stop the engine from starting. When you can't start and no SEL and CEL lights on the dash the main computer isn't getting power. That is the small plug you just had off the engine computer. Sounds like a bad connection there. Clean them well and dieelectric grease. Be carefull not to bend the pins. Remove fuses first.
Actually this latest issue the red and yellow lights were not lighting and the pro drive was not either. Yes, when only the pro drive wouldn't light I could start the engine, but I didn't have some functions, like fast idle wouldn't work.
Seb
Quote from: luvrbus on November 23, 2022, 03:18:01 AM
The LCD displays doesn't work sometimes in cold weather, the Pro driver is nothing to worry about, plug the engine heater in when cold and drive on,the ProDriver is a option like a Silverleaf not a necessity, thanks Richard.The reason it starts the second time in cold weather is because the engine soaked up heat from the previous try. Instructions for the ProDriver can be found in most series 60 owner's manuals fwiw
Ok, thanks, although when the pro driver didn't come on I don't have fast idle. Not a huge problem, I just fast idle with my foot. Also, when it doesn't come on I don't have turn signals and some other electrical functions.
Thanks
Seb
The fast idle is linked to the cruise control they both need to be turned on with the parking brake set ,it is also linked to the B500 Allison clean the plug on the Allison electronics are fun indeed, the next time it happens turn the steering wheel one-way or the other the clock spring may have slack if you have a smart wheel (controls on the steering wheel)
Try what luvrbus said. Set the parking brake and see if you have fast idle. No then it is probably bad connection in the 30 pin plug with the 1/4" bolt in the center of it. There is two of them. Leave the one going to the engine for now. Clean the pins well but remove power at the battery for the bus. be very careful you do not bend any of the very small pins. When you insert the plug back go absolutely straight in or you will bend a few pins. Put a little dieelectric grease on them when you reassemble them. Nothing to be afraid of but make sure there is no fasteners that restrict the straight out movement of the plug.
If your DL was setup like mine it had a switch besides the driver and one on the dash both of mine had to be in the ON position for it to work
Quote from: luvrbus on November 23, 2022, 04:36:49 AM
The fast idle is linked to the cruise control they both need to be turned on with the parking brake set ,it is also linked to the B500 Allison clean the plug on the Allison electronics are fun indeed, the next time it happens turn the steering wheel one-way or the other the clock spring may have slack if you have a smart wheel (controls on the steering wheel)
OK, will do thanks for the suggestion.
I do have cruise control. That is a can of worms I haven't explored yet, but if I understand you I need to turn it on before departure, I can't decide mid trip "I'm going to use cruise control" and turn it on?
Good to know, thanks
Seb
Quote from: Sebulba on November 23, 2022, 05:53:58 AM
OK, will do thanks for the suggestion.
I do have cruise control. That is a can of worms I haven't explored yet, but if I understand you I need to turn it on before departure, I can't decide mid trip "I'm going to use cruise control" and turn it on?
Good to know, thanks
Seb
The year model of the MCI has a setting to produce more HP and torque on cruise control you should use it as much as possiable for better performance and fuel milage with the cruise on you go from 430 hp to 470 hp
Quote from: luvrbus on November 23, 2022, 06:05:17 AM
The year model of the MCI has a setting to produce more HP and torque on cruise control you should use it as much as possiable for better performance and fuel milage with the cruise on you go from 430 hp to 470 hp
Wow! That's amazing. If everything goes ok, the next time we start I will turn on the cruise and give it a try.
We are at 7300 feet, and I do notice less power up here, but still very respectable.
Thanks a lot
Seb
Well, some good news, I turned on the main power and all looks right. I didn't fire her up so cr it 25 degrees out and I wasn't plugged in.
But, who knows, maybe I solved it. 🤔
Seb
where you at Seb? Not so many roads for buses at over 7k
Quote from: windtrader on November 23, 2022, 07:52:59 AM
where you at Seb? Not so many roads for buses at over 7k
Says he is in Santa Fe NM that area is over 7000ft and fairly easy to get around in a bus there unless you are driving a N/A 8v71
Quote from: luvrbus on November 23, 2022, 08:40:48 AM
Says he is in Santa Fe NM that area is over 7000ft and fairly easy to get around in a bus there unless you are driving a N/A 8v71
Heck we've driven our NA 671 w/o Jake's with toad in Santa Fe & lots of high elevation Rocky Mountain area. No problem, just do it slower, again no problem. Just saying.
Quote from: dtcerrato on November 23, 2022, 08:57:15 AM
Heck we've driven our NA 671 w/o Jake's with toad in Santa Fe & lots of high elevation Rocky Mountain area. No problem, just do it slower, again no problem. Just saying.
Some of the 12% grades you don't pull off in a scenic view area and expect to get roiling again btdt with a 8v71 and 4 speed manual transmission but not in a lite weight 35 ft GM bus it was 40 ft converted bus
10-4 on pulling off on an uphill 12% grade. If & when we ever did due to extenuating circumstances, the four down dingy toad gave us the goose we needed to get moving again.although wifey never liked that drill she was a real trooper - the good kind not the red nor blue lights trying to pull us over for what we were doing. Lol :^
Quote from: dtcerrato on November 23, 2022, 01:00:22 PM
10-4 on pulling off on an uphill 12% grade. If & when we ever did due to extenuating circumstances, the four down dingy toad gave us the goose we needed to get moving again.although wifey never liked that drill she was a real trooper - the good kind not the red nor blue lights trying to pull us over for what we were doing. Lol :^
Wifes are troopers being a tight @$# I ran out of fuel trying to find cheaper fuel,I put the Jeep in 4 wheel drive and low range and Sonja pushed me 28 miles to Well NV lol of course she had something to say about me running out of fuel when we reached the Flying J
Haha, yeah, it happens. Years ago, I ran a 75 Honda Civic out of gas. Walked a mile to a grocery store. (no gas stations for another 5 miles.) Bought a gallon of Coleman lantern fuel and poured into the car. It ran but knocked a lot and rough, but got us to a station.
These are all great stories. It's the real world.
Seb
Let me make a suggestion, and explain the logic behind it.
You have checked most of the intermediate path to provide power to the ECM.
Seeing somewhat of a correlation between the NO CEL or SEL lights and other electrical anomalies up front could indicate that either the ignition switch or probably a relay triggered by the switch to turn on 12V electrical power to ignition circuits is not functioning properly.
The next time you turn the key and do not get the CEL or SEL lights, leave the key on. Go to the back and remove both plugs from the right side of the DDEC. Your manual has already instructed you how to check power on the power plug (the upper five pin one). But the DDEC also requires power on one terminal on the 30 pin plug to actually tell the engine to fire. Your manual should show you which one. If it's not in the manual, I will dig through my files and find it for you. EDIT: I found the info in an old post of mine about a similar problem On the 30 pin connector, B3, second row from bottom, pink wire, should also show 12V.
The point is that you REALLY need to determine IF the DDEC has power when you get this condition. If it does, you have a DDEC problem, if it does not you have a problem with voltage getting to the DDEC.
I would find the master Igniton power relay that gets an input from the key switch. You have to have one. There is no way the current for all the 12V ignition powered circuits goes through the key switch. When you find that relay, check the input side to see if the key on is providing a 12V trigger. And check the output side to see if the relay is actually providing 12V power to the ignition circuits.
Quote from: RichardEntrekin on November 24, 2022, 01:06:37 PM
Let me make a suggestion, and explain the logic behind it.
You have checked most of the intermediate path to provide power to the ECM.
Seeing somewhat of a correlation between the NO CEL or SEL lights and other electrical anomalies up front could indicate that either the ignition switch or probably a relay triggered by the switch to turn on 12V electrical power to ignition circuits is not functioning properly.
The next time you turn the key and do not get the CEL or SEL lights, leave the key on. Go to the back and remove both plugs from the right side of the DDEC. Your manual has already instructed you how to check power on the power plug (the upper five pin one). But the DDEC also requires power on one terminal on the 30 pin plug to actually tell the engine to fire. Your manual should show you which one. If it's not in the manual, I will dig through my files and find it for you. EDIT: I found the info in an old post of mine about a similar problem On the 30 pin connector, B3, second row from bottom, pink wire, should also show 12V.
The point is that you REALLY need to determine IF the DDEC has power when you get this condition. If it does, you have a DDEC problem, if it does not you have a problem with voltage getting to the DDEC.
I would find the master Igniton power relay that gets an input from the key switch. You have to have one. There is no way the current for all the 12V ignition powered circuits goes through the key switch. When you find that relay, check the input side to see if the key on is providing a 12V trigger. And check the output side to see if the relay is actually providing 12V power to the ignition circuits.
That all makes sense. Let me see what happens the next few days.
I am planning to start it today, just to see if it all works, and tomorrow we plan to head to Albuquerque.
Thanks
Seb
Hello all,
Well, yesterday I started her without a hitch and the same today -- made it to Albuquerque with everything behaving as normal.
I don't know if we fixed it or it's just behaving better, we'll see in about 2 weeks when we head back to Albuquerque for tax season.
Thank you so much for your help. The troubleshooting guide was great.
Seb