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Retrofit system converts existing diesel engines to run on 90% hydrogen
By Loz Blain
October 13, 2022

Retrofitting existing diesel engines to run mainly on hydrogen may be a fast way for large fleets to rapidly reduce their carbon footprint without junking existing assets
Retrofitting existing diesel engines to run mainly on hydrogen may be a fast way for large fleets to rapidly reduce their carbon footprint without junking existing assets, Prof Shawn Kook / UNSW

UNSW researchers have prototyped and tested a retrofit system that converts diesel engines to run on 90% hydrogen, radically reducing both carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide emissions while boosting efficiency by an impressive 26% in the process.


Running 10% diesel, the process is not a full green conversion for diesel engines, but it does offer a way for certain businesses to hugely reduce their emissions output without wastefully junking existing assets that could still remain useful for a long time...
Pricing for the Urta Hybrid starts at €7,000 (US$6,808)
Wilier's Urta Hybrid full-squish eMTB is one of the lightest you can buy
The retrofit system keeps the diesel injection system, but adds hydrogen injection directly to the cylinder, as well as independent control of injection timing for both the hydrogen and diesel systems. It doesn't require particularly high-purity hydrogen, and the team has demonstrated that its "stratified" hydrogen injection technique, which creates pockets of higher and lower hydrogen concentrations in the cylinder, reduces the incidence of nitrous oxide emissions below that of a straight diesel.

The overall carbon dioxide emissions drop by some 85%, to around 90 grams/kWh of energy – that would certainly represent a solid intermediate step towards total decarbonization for many operations using large fleets of diesel vehicles.

Of course, it relies on hydrogen being available – which, in most areas, is not yet the case. But as the key green vehicle alternative to lithium batteries, hydrogen's time may be coming. Lithium supply shortages look set to rock the battery EV market in the coming few years, right when government regulations start kicking in to seriously accelerate the transition to zero-emissions driving in many jurisdictions. And green hydrogen projects are springing up all over the globe.


UNSW researchers Professor Shawn Kook (right), Xinyu Liu (back left) and Jinxin Yang (front left) with the diesel-to hydrogen retrofit test rig
UNSW researchers Professor Shawn Kook (right), Xinyu Liu (back left) and Jinxin Yang (front left) with the diesel-to hydrogen retrofit test rigProf Shawn Kook / UNSW
Still, for the time being, the UNSW team is working to get its diesel engine retrofit systems commercialized within the next two years, and it's targeting industrial fleet and generator operators like mining operations, many of which already have hydrogen piped to the site. Again, this is currently unlikely to be green hydrogen, so the initial uses might effectively just be transferring their emissions to some Haber-Bosch plant down the street. But as the green hydrogen industry ramps up, it'll be important for investors to know there's reliable and growing demand from vehicles out there already using hydrogen and looking for a cleaner solution.

"We have shown that we can take those existing diesel engines and convert them into cleaner engines that burn hydrogen fuel," said Professor Shawn Kook, lead author on a paper just published in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy. "Being able to retrofit diesel engines that are already out there is much quicker than waiting for the development of completely new fuel cell systems that might not be commercially available at a larger scale for at least a decade. With the problem of carbon emissions and climate change, we need some more immediate solutions to deal with the issue of these many diesel engines currently in use."


For a lower-friction approach – albeit one with less impressive results – there are other retrofit systems being developed, like the HYDI direct injection device, which generates its own hydrogen as you drive, and injects it into the air-fuel mixture to help the diesel ignite faster and more completely. It requires nothing but an occasional water top-up, so it's completely non-reliant on hydrogen fueling infrastructure, and it reduces fuel consumption by 5-13%, while also cutting down on emissions

Here's the university study...

Will it work on older 2-strokes like ours?

The last paragraph sounds intriguing, but there are plenty of electrolysis scams out there.   Any evidence that it does what it claims?   It sounds similar to propane injection.

John

I knew they are testing Ammonia for jet fuel,I saw 2 Dodge pickups close to the testing site in Yucca that were Ammonia fueled

I'll believe that 5-13% efficiency boost when I've seen in in action in real conditions.  I'm all for developing technologies and looking to the future, but the folks behind that HYDI are looking to make money and it doesn't sound like that's actually a proven concept yet.  On-the-go electrolysis could be very much like rooftop solar for EVs - sounds great, but the real world numbers may not line up.

Pretty much any engine could be converted to run on hydrogen with some modification, the problem remains, as it always has, safe transportation and scalable, efficient production of the hydrogen itself.

No, no, no! You just need a good enough story for the government to give you a boatload of cash.

Not to be confused with Cummins' fuel cell (as featured in the Kenworth T680 shown in back), Cummins hydrogen internal combustion engine, the X15H, got "a lot of positive feedback" recently at ACT Expo in Long Beach, Calif. according to Cummins general manager of hydrogen engine business Jim Nebergall. "It's really the practicality of it that's resonated with people the most," Nebergall continued. "It's familiar in a way and delivers on the zero carbon need that we're all looking for and it's a part of a lot of corporate initiatives to drive to zero carbon and this does it in a very practical way, in a familiar way in a very risk averse industry."Tom Quimby

'Accidental power trip' leads scientists to discover new way of generating hydrogenThe NUS team
NUS

Scientist discovers improvement in process to generate hydrogen

We discovered that the redox center for electro-catalytic reaction is switched between metal and oxygen, triggered by light," said Jun Min. "This largely improves the water electrolysis efficiency."

It all began with an accidental power trip of the ceiling lights in Jun Min's laboratory almost three years ago. Back then, the ceiling lights in Jun Min's research lab were normally turned on for 24 hours. When the lights went off due to a power failure, there was an opportunity to observe something that scientists had never witnessed before.

When the researchers returned the next day, they found that the darkness had influenced the performance of a nickel oxyhydroxide-based material in the water electrolysis experiment. It had fallen drastically.

"This drop in performance, nobody has ever noticed it before, because no one has ever done the experiment in the dark," said Jun Min. "Also, the literature says that such a material shouldn't be sensitive to light; light should not have any effect on its properties."
Jun Min and his team knew they had stumbled on something significant, and they embarked on numerous repeated experiments to test out their new theories. They eventually had enough data to publish a paper.

Now, the team is working on new ways to improve industrial processes to generate hydrogen such as making the cells containing water to be transparent, so as to introduce light into the water splitting process.

Yeah well, the flat earth society (or was it the perpetual motion group) have been working on that for over a decade now. Electolysis combined with light bombardment as well as microwave bombardment in the presence of a catalyst to improve efficiencies, so it's nothing new. Look it up on the web if you want to. It's all a part of the conspiracy to run internal combustion engines on water. Or Brown's Gas. The idea is to use a catalyst and other methods to break the oxy-hydrogen bond and then burn the resulting gas mix to produce power. The problem is that to break the bond takes more power than is regenerated by recombining in the burning process so there have been all manner of outlandish attempts to get around that limitation. Considering conservation of mass and energy is basically THE fundamental principal underlying all of physics this is tantamount to breaking the universe. But I say go for it. What have we got to lose?

Jim

The day we can run our cars off water is the day we can scrap most of the power plants and just turn out a new breed of hydroelectric stations.  I'm not holding my breath.

Hydrogen has potential as an energy storage - not generation - medium if some rather daunting supply and transport issues can be solved alongside making the base production cheaper overall.  My bet remains on battery tech and electric vehicles to prove superior, but time will tell.

....and then there's good old snake oil. Same game, different players.

Jim

Hydrogen combustion engines are not that different then gasoline engines, even more similar to CNG or propane powered engines. In Las Vegas and Los Angeles there are fleets of those buses, commercial trucks, cars and private vehicles. I had two my self. In Utah,  CNG is regulated for sale at the same rate as supplying home natural gas. Maybe you could run yours on snake oil, you might start engines mechanical architecture in a whole new direction!
MCI built a fleet of CNG commuter and Flyaway buses, with 800 mile ranges. They were serviced at the Los Alamitos, SoCal shop...

From car buzz:
Volkswagen Is Working On A Hydrogen Car With 1,242 Miles Of Range
NOV. 15, 2022 6:03 PM ET
BY JARRYD NEVES
ELECTRIC VEHICLES

A patent filing points to the arrival of a new hydrogen vehicle that could blow the competition out of the water.

Volkswagen is working on a hydrogen-powered car that can travel 1,242 miles on a single tank.

Autocar reports the German automaker has reputedly applied for the patent registration of hydrogen fuel cells and a hydrogen vehicle that may be sold alongside existing electric cars like the ID.4 but also capable of traveling long distances without refueling.

The patent, jointly filed by the automaker and Kraftwerk Tubes, details a ceramic membrane. This is far cheaper than the polymer membrane favored by Toyota and Hyundai and is considered essential to the mass production of hydrogen fuel cells and hydrogen vehicles. Notably, the ceramic membrane works without platinum; the pricey metal has been one of the obstacles standing in the way of fuel cell production.

This is what diesel engine manufacturers have been hinting at...

There are patents done in past for buggy whips too. We'll see....

Worth a read.

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/electric-semi-trucks

Saw diesel at truck stop sign today $6.29.

Hydrogen Finally Getting Its Day

A raft of hydrogen investments is underway as California mandates the phase-out of diesel trucks and U.S. and EU policy makers plot a divorce from Russian oil and gas.
David Kiley | Nov 11, 2022


LOS ALAMOS, NM – For as long as most of us can remember, the hydrogen economy has been 20 years off. That goes back to the mid-1990s, when General Motors first started revving up the idea of hydrogen power along with a handful of outspoken boosters of the technology.

And while the mobility industry today seems all about a future powered by lithium-ion batteries, there is movement somewhat under the radar to once again advance hydrogen-powered transportation/mobility. But don't look at your driveway or a car dealership for the signs. It's all about long-haul trucking, shipping, new-construction housing, buses, farm equipment, forklifts and even aviation.

Taking all those sectors together, hydrogen energy projects and investments seek to produce as much as possible from renewable resources, which would have a significant impact on reducing carbon emissions and reliance on fossil fuels.

"There is an undeniable desire to make more of hydrogen in the energy economy," says Sumanth Addageria, vice president of Albuquerque, NM-based BayoTech, which supplies hydrogen trailers to distribution points such as TrueZero hydrogen stations in California.

BayoTech's position is backed up by a recent report by consulting firm Deloitte that projects hydrogen "to be the next energy (sector) to scale."

I read in energy magazine we will need 480% more electricity than we produce now because of electric vehicle's,I kinda doubt the 480 % numbers but don't doubt we will need more,also read where the GM Hummer will cost $100.00 to fully charge   

$100 to fully recharge??? Come on. Maybe in Ca.
There are current articles about GM's current work with hydrogen and new break throughs. All mfgrs are spending some part of their research budget on it. Can't risk being caught behind.

It won't be long before charging will cost as much as gasoline or diesel did in the past on the road.I already see charging stations @10 to 15 dollars for a hour charge @ Loves,Walmart is adding charging stations at some locations now 

Oh yeah. The honeymoon will end once the public starts embracing it. Annual " electric" vehicle special additional registration fees. Demand electric meters at home, high recharge rates on the road. Waiting hours for recharge slot at busy locations, skyrocketing home electric rates, increased fuel taxes to lessen burden on the new technology and force the transition quicker. In the end, electric vehicle use won't be any cheaper, most likely more costly.
Also additional taxes to change all the city transit systems over since we already subsidize rider costs.

I like riding in my friends Telsa it is so quite and will move ,he told me it was ok but he wasn't buying another one

The trend is towards suv's, so sedans is in less demand. And their are a portion of population always wants to drive a "see me" or jump on latest trends. Then you have the leg humpers. Tesla, BMW, Prevosts, Harbor Freight.lol😉

White Hydrogen. As it's called when taken from the air.
This isn't exactly white hydrogen, as it isn't free-floating, but it is likely as close as we'll come.
The method described by the scientists from the University of Melbourne's Department of Chemical Engineering involve using the humidity from the air in an electrolyzer powered by renewable energy sources such as solar and wind.  This concept is meant to help to bring green H2 to remote regions that are traditionally low in liquid water, pulling the H2O straight out of the air.

University of Melbourne
@UniMelb
Our @engunimelb researchers have developed a way to generate hydrogen from air instead of the conventional method using fresh water. It could lead to a better way to store renewable power which doesn't deplete scarce water resources.
Read more → https://t.co/pzP6D5Ft4S https://t.co/ceBI5SOlH

Cummins Engine is in hot pursuit of Hydrogen based engines  (H2-ICE) with the 6.7 and 15L engines so it is coming won't be long before the 6.7 H2 will be an option for Dodge pickups   

Sounds like more snake oil.
Humidity ratios vary widely. In the tropics it can hit 100% but in cold areas can be below 10%. Considering the weight difference it's easy to see that vast quantities of air would need to be processed to remove small volumes of water. Consider the water drain from your air conditioner, that's about the volume of water you could expect to be recovering and it's not going to produce enough hydrogen to run a vehicle on. For a semi truck half the cargo space would have to be used for air processing.

Jim

Hydrogen will happen in time to many vehicle manufactures are soaking to much money into Hydrogen for it not to happen, snake oil or not 

I believe this push is due to the depletion of our proven oil reserves. So as not to panic the world of oil consumers, it is not talked about. Why would GM totally go all in on electric vehicles, along with other manufacturers? Why billions being invested in Hydrogen?Would be quite a gamble otherwise.
Why would Aramco put their crude reserves up for sale acouple of years ago? Making too much money on it? Recently Saudis said they couldn't do large increase in supply to drive prices down. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

I read where deep water drilling for oil and gas is going to increase by 60% by 2030 lol they must be banking on a change in DC,gasoline and diesel will be around for years to come

There is way too much money being made on gasoline and diesel to give it up anytime soon, the probably won't happen in our lifetimes and there are way more than enough reserves to last well beyond that.

It's just another way for those with money to make more. If they can convince enough people that it has to happen, then the politicians will find ways of funding it no matter how inefficient the process is or how long it takes. One of the side effects of a global economy is that large pools of resources (read taxes) become available to anyone in a position to control them. Abuses are inevitable.

I'm not saying hydrogen power or electric power is not a good idea, but it's being used as a vehicle to suck ever more money away from the populace. All you need to see to know this is true is to just look at quarterly profits. Particularly oil companies who are making money hand over fist and have been for far too long now. And where is that money coming from? Yeah, just look at the pump prices and attendant inflation rates. Investment values have taken a hard hit from inflation (actual not stated) over the past several years. I think we've pretty much lost the ability to do anything about it too. No wonder the younger generation is sinking into poverty.
Jim

Tax and spend (print money) never works sooner or later it catches up, me I hate being $97,000.00 in debt I had nothing to do with my grandkids don't stand a chance. Then it pisses me never owning my home because of the government's property taxes you just lease your property from the taxing authority     

HYDROGEN ECONOMY
New Mexico is Bucking to Become a Hydrogen Power Player
November 24, 2022Add comment5

Several hydrogen and fuel-cell companies are eyeing New Mexico, which hopes to nab a chunk of federal funding to establish itself as a hub for the alternative fuel and related technologies.

Advocates for hydrogen fuel-cell cars and trucks have had to take the long view. In 1999, when what was then DaimlerChrysler had already spent $1 billion on the technology, and announced a goal of 100,000 fuel-cell cars on the road by 2006, company hydrogen guru Ferdinand Panik said of his Necar 4, "This car is really in the form that we could put in customer hands."
It didn't happen, and the program never went beyond the testing stage. More recently, automakers including Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai have all introduced commercial fuel-cell cars, but they've mostly been confined to small production programs in a niche around Los Angeles, the only place in the United States with a significant hydrogen fueling infrastructure.

It's possible, though, that hydrogen is on the move again, and this time the focus is not on passenger cars, but rather on transportation that doesn't play well with batteries—long-distance trucking, container shipping, and even aircraft. It's happening somewhat slowly, though there was $2 billion in hydrogen-based venture capital activity globally in 2021, and a much bigger number anticipated for 2022.

Bosch is spending $200 million to refit a South Carolina plant to supply fuel cells for heavy-duty electric trucks starting in 2026. The Port of Long Beach is planning to mostly use hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2035.

What's not listed in this article is the 11 protypes GM built...

Grabbing a chunk of federal funding is where it's at.

There's a new term out there called "Gold hydrogen". Basically they take an abandoned oil well and pump microbes and nutrients into it which then burp hydrogen and Co2...

CO2 as in Carbon?
Mm... carbon bad...?

Jim

Theories - conspiracies from government to secret global elite to sovereigns and plenty of special interests. Listen up. Generally, not falling for conspiracies, I am coming around to the possiblity that some ideas, inventions, and other specialized knowledge is kept under lock and key, and kept from the public and business world to make dollars.
A YouTube video altered my perspective on the ability and capabilty of government to control sensitive information. An amateur scientist wanted to see if an egg dropped from space could survive untracked.

So began a multi-year journey to learn enough science to launch a baloon to space, release a payload, and direct it to a foam mat. Seems so innocent but swap an egg for a bomb and a mat for a building and well...
Each attempt revealed new complexities and the search for solutions started hitting walls. turns out fewer and fewer people know answer to such esoteric situations and they are all bound and tied to various levels of secrecy and confideniality.

He did get enough answers to get his egg to land uncracked but it was a real wake up call that secrets do exist and kept up control. Whether the actual secret merits national or global security or humankind or extinction is not being debated, just the mechanisms and powers do exist.
Hydrogen, free energy from rocks, water, or whatever. Who knows how many pollution free energy sources exist that are kept secret for global power leverage?

WOW! Tin foil hat?lol

Toyota unveils hydrogen-powered pickup and SUV
Toyota thinks hydrogen could be an alternative to battery power
By Gary Gastelu | Fox News

The Japanese automaker sees a bright future for the fuel as an alternative to battery power in the future zero emissions automotive world and is developing vehicles with it on several fronts.

Along with the fuel cell-powered semi trucks it is currently testing in California, it also offers the Mirai in the state, which is the only one with anything resembling a public refueling network.

A fuel cell combines stored hydrogen with atmospheric oxygen to generate electricity through a chemical reaction. The system is lighter and can be refueled much quicker than a battery pack.

Toyota is also exploring the simple burning of hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, which emits water vapor instead of carbon dioxide...

Toyota's hydrogen-powered Corolla Cross burns the gas.

It has converted the 268 hp 1.6-liter three-cylinder turbocharged engine from the GR Corolla sports car with high-pressure hydrogen injectors and installed it into a Corolla ...

Car and Driver
BMW Expands into Hydrogen Power with Fuel-Cell SUV Based on the X5
BMW's strong belief in hydrogen starts with the iX5, a low-volume hydrogen fuel-cell SUV that will begin testing next spring in select regions.

BY ERIC STAFFORDPUBLISHED: DEC 2, 2022

The BMW iX5 hydrogen fuel-cell SUV is now entering low-volume production and will begin testing in select regions next spring.
Based on the regular BMW X5, the iX5 is retrofitted with a fuel-cell stack, an electric motor and battery, and a new floor to fit its hydrogen tanks.
BMW believes both electric and hydrogen-powered vehicles are necessary to combat climate change, with the iX5 a potential precursor to future models.
Along with a growing number of automakers, BMW says it's committed to combatting global climate change and aims to be carbon neutral by 2050. Unlike many automakers, however, the German brand believes hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles will play a big role in reaching that goal...

Testing, exploring, maybe one of the manufacturers will come with a practical breakthrough in near future. The infrastructure is going to be the big issue.

There isn't much difference between CNG, propane and Hydrogen delivery stations. In Las Vegas there is a Hydrogen filling station within the property of the City of LV equipment gas,diesel, cng, propane and Hydrogen station. Honda had given the City of  LV their small subcompact hydrogen combustion cars for the city employees to beta test...

If you need a fuel cell to burn hydrogen, a lot more elaborate than electric vehicles.
Here's  another fuel idea:
https://www.science.org/content/article/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon

Quote from: lvmci on December 06, 2022, 08:22:16 PM
Toyota unveils hydrogen-powered pickup and SUV

A lot of car manufactures are crapping their pants with the lead that Tesla has over them in the EV transition.

There's a YouTube channel called "The Electric Viking" who talks about EV topic's and he points out that Toyota basically has their heads stuck in the sand.

A good friend who is also in a high tech industry was going to by a hydrogen powered Toyota vehicle bought a Tesla after I convinced him he was bonkers to even consider it! Ok I loaned him my Tesla for the weekend and he ended up buying a model X afterwards with my referral code.

Anyway only Tesla is making a profit selling EV's the rest of the car manufactures are loosing money or in the case of the chinese company BYD breaking even.

So they are all scrambling to compete with Tesla on something approaching an even playing field.

Not Toyota they have so much sunken cost into hydrogen development that Japan probably will be a very minor player in the auto market of the future.

So hey a couple of his videos to watch if you are interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dFeJnzFGjk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dFeJnzFGjk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4gf6jiS8g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4gf6jiS8g)

Ok in MHO hydrogen is a dead end for anything except rockets and steel production.

@freds
You have a Tesla, right? So you have obvious bias but Tesla is far and away the big winner and has sufficient scale to compete with all legacy brands.

There are two things that makes Tesla the winner, it makes money! It had some extremely close calls but having not read the balance sheet, i suspect it is pretty healty unless his other ventures like Borinhg company, SpaceX, Starlonk, Neurlink, etc, are too big anchors on the balance sheet. I'm sure he'd save Tesla before some of the others.
Second is the charging network. I just watched two videos today. Both knucleheads buy Rivians and take road trips. One from LA to SF Bay area, along the I5.  They can not take advantage of the Tesla chargers so use other kinds, none of which seem to work at all or rarely at high current. Even the CA road trip almost failed but he limped to his destination. The other guy was going from Ohio to Colorodo, something like that. His trip was si,ply stupid how close he came to running out of fjuice and ended up staying overnight in a $150 room because it was the only place he could plug in. Even that was so slow charger and wasn't even full in the morning.
You know better than most but I'd assume Elon is not letting his charger network work 50%. Do you have any insights to offer on the used Tesla market? I REALLY want a small EV truck but none yet - like a Ford Maverick but electric. Cybertruck may be a bit much. lol

Quote from: windtrader on December 07, 2022, 04:24:50 PM
@freds
You have a Tesla, right? So you have obvious bias but Tesla is far and away the big winner and has sufficient scale to compete with all legacy brands.

There are two things that makes Tesla the winner, it makes money! It had some extremely close calls but having not read the balance sheet, i suspect it is pretty healty unless his other ventures like Borinhg company, SpaceX, Starlonk, Neurlink, etc, are too big anchors on the balance sheet. I'm sure he'd save Tesla before some of the others.

Second is the charging network. I just watched two videos today. Both knucleheads buy Rivians and take road trips. One from LA to SF Bay area, along the I5.  They can not take advantage of the Tesla chargers so use other kinds, none of which seem to work at all or rarely at high current. Even the CA road trip almost failed but he limped to his destination. The other guy was going from Ohio to Colorodo, something like that. His trip was si,ply stupid how close he came to running out of fjuice and ended up staying overnight in a $150 room because it was the only place he could plug in. Even that was so slow charger and wasn't even full in the morning.
You know better than most but I'd assume Elon is not letting his charger network work 50%. Do you have any insights to offer on the used Tesla market? I REALLY want a small EV truck but none yet - like a Ford Maverick but electric. Cybertruck may be a bit much. lol

Wow so many things to unpack in your post.

1. Tesla fan boy. Well I got to say duh I have a 2014 P85 that when I purchased it I said that it would be the last new car that I would buy.
2. Charging network. In 2014 interstate I-90 was not fully populated and I was taking my P85 to Wyoming to visit my cousin. After I left Spokane WA eastbound on I-90 I would basically park the car over night in a RV park with 50 AMP service then drive a few hours to another RV park to charge a couple hours before getting back on the road. So basically a very lackadaisical day of traveling where I might make 300 miles traveling.
3. Now a days your just tell the car where you want to go by pushing a button on the steering wheel and talking to the car to tell it where you want to go. It automatically flight plans the entire trip for you. I have had warnings during my trip (slow down to make your charging destination, change in charging location to weather conditions, your charging location is anticipated to be busy suggest you charge at X location). So hey very civilized with no muss, no fuss with my 2014 Tesla that has had it's software updated 25+ times. Software drives the world?
4. I do think that Tesla has succeed as they have focused on the hard technology parts and leveraged off the shelf automotive parts when it makes sense (like the steering wheel and throttle petal, etc). They are also thinking five to six years ahead, not the next quarterly report (ok a bit of that with shipments)..
5. One of the enticements to buying my Tesla was lifetime supercharging, which he I am starting to take advantage of.
6. Like the joke you mentioned trying to use third party charging networks just recently had an update with lots of EV journalists trying to travel to a convention to San Diego.
7. Tesla is the main profit center, everything like SpaceX, Starlink and Boring company only have Elon Musk in common (though hey the stock market gets that confused also). Though I do think he shot himself in both feet with twitter...
8. My suggestion for a used EV would be to get a Tesla that is at least partly still under warrantee. Anything else is a crap shoot.

PS. Most Tesla charging stations that I have encountered have been less than eight charging stalls, sometimes sixteen. However I recently encountered a brand new one with about fifty stalls!!!

From ars technica:
Mixing diesel and hydrogen provides big cuts in emissions
Ars Contributors  12/7/2022 3:15 pm  Categories:Cars, Science
View non-AMP version at arstechnica.com

Diesel engines can be modified to burn a diesel-hydrogen mix.

A team of engineers at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) in Sydney has figured out a way to run a diesel engine on a mix of diesel and hydrogen, dramatically lowering its emissions.

Why do we even need a diesel-hydrogen hybrid engine when there are already many great electric vehicles available? EVs are definitely great for households, but they still don't match heavy diesel engines' performance in some contexts, such as mining, long-distance transportation, power generation, and agriculture.

At present, there are 26,000 trains in the US that run on diesel, and there are potentially millions of trucks, generators, and other industry-grade equipment that require diesel to deliver optimum performance. It might take decades for EV technology to replace diesel engines in such industries. While it's easy for a normal person to sell an old car and buy a new EV, such changes come at a high cost to industries.

So we're likely to be stuck with diesel engines for a while. But what if there was a way to reduce the CO2 emissions from their existing equipment by 85 percent?

This is what UNSW's hydrogen-diesel hybrid engine technology promises. The researchers claim that their modified diesel engine can run on 90 percent hydrogen with an improved efficiency of over 26 percent. In a press release, Shawn Kook, one of the authors of the study
professor at UNSW, said, "We have shown that we can take those existing diesel engines and convert them into cleaner engines that burn hydrogen fuel."

He added, "This new technology significantly reduces CO2 emissions from existing diesel engines, so it could play a big part in making our carbon footprint much smaller, especially in Australia with all our mining, agriculture, and other heavy industries where diesel engines are widely used."

A dual-fuel system
A vehicle powered by diesel has a diesel-injection unit that releases fuel into the combustion chamber. The engine's piston compresses the fuel-air mix to high pressure and temperature, which causes it to ignite. This creates the pressure that powers the engine.

During this process, a diesel engine produces carbon dioxide and NOx (nitrogen oxides), which are harmful to our environment. The researchers say that directly mixing hydrogen with diesel in the combustion chamber would increase NOx pollution. In order to overcome this problem, they developed a hydrogen-diesel dual-fuel system that uses a timed, high-pressure hydrogen direct-injection unit inside a diesel engine that was already equipped with a diesel-injection unit...

INVERSE, GEAR,  Jackson Chen
DEC. 1, 2022
WHY HONDA THINKS HYDROGEN CARS COULD DETHRONE BATTERY-POWERED EVS
Honda thinks the tech is worth the investment.
the tech is winning support from automakers like Honda, which recently announced plans to make a hydrogen version of the Honda CR-V starting in 2024.

That's big news considering the CR-V is one of the best-selling compact SUVs in the U.S. So, what makes Honda so keen on getting its hydrogen alternatives out in the real world? Here's what you need to know.

WHY HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS MIGHT BE BETTER THAN BATTERY EVS
...A vehicle that runs on hydrogen fuel cells is still fully electric like its battery-powered counterparts, but the mechanism that powers them is different. Instead of a bulky battery pack providing electricity to power the EV, a fuel cell EV (FCEV) uses its hydrogen-filled cells to produce electricity to run the car.
The hydrogen fuel cells don't act like power storage like what's seen with battery cells, using a chemical reaction to generate electricity instead. That method provides a few upsides, like not having to rely on a bulky battery pack that weighs the EV down and reduces range.

...You'll get less range anxiety with FCEVs since they usually travel for longer distances due to hydrogen fuel cells being able to store more energy than batteries. You also won't have to wait a half-hour to fuel up your FCEV since you can fill up on hydrogen in just a few minutes.

...existing FCEVs have their hydrogen fuel tanks rigorously tested. For example, the Toyota Mirai's fuel tanks can absorb five times the crash energy of steel and have sensors that can stop the flow of hydrogen.

...automakers pursuing hydrogen cars are making big bets, and with great investment can come great success.


Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEV) are about twice as efficient as a conventional gasoline fueled vehicle – an FCEV will go about twice as far on a kg of hydrogen (the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline). So on a per mile basis, $10/kg is the same as $5/gallon compared to a gasoline fueled internal combustion vehicle. As the commercial market grows, it is expected this number will come down. The DOE FCTO has a cost per kg goal of $3-$5 per kg for commercial hydrogen. If these numbers can be achieved the cost per mile for FCEV will be less than a contemporary gasoline fueled vehicle...
...Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. However, naturally occurring atomic hydrogen is rare on earth since it readily combines with other elements to form molecules such as water, methane (natural gas) and methanol. Hydrogen is "produced" by breaking the chemical bonds in the molecules that form these substances. Today, most hydrogen is made from natural gas, some from electrolysis of water and some from bio-methane. Since Hydrogen can be made from many different sources, every region of the world has the potential to produce its own fuel, which ultimately benefits the environment and the local economy.

CALIFORNIA HYDROGEN BUSINESS COUNCIL
...Historically, NASA has been the primary user of hydrogen resources for its space program—it fueled the shuttles using liquid hydrogen and employs backup hydrogen fuel cells for electricity. In recent years, the focus has turned to Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEVs), which have lower green house gas emissions than their gasoline counterparts. Hydrogen also has the potential to be used as stationary power (for buildings), backup power, storage of energy harvested through wind and solar processes, and as battery-like portable power (most commonly used in forklifts today).

Quote from: lvmci on December 07, 2022, 06:02:22 PM
From ars technica:
Mixing diesel and hydrogen provides big cuts in emissions
Ars Contributors  12/7/2022 3:15 pm  Categories:Cars, Science
View non-AMP version at arstechnica.com

A dual-fuel system
A vehicle powered by diesel has a diesel-injection unit that releases fuel into the combustion chamber. The engine's piston compresses the fuel-air mix to high pressure and temperature, which causes it to ignite. This creates the pressure that powers the engine.

Er, no!   Only a spark-ignition (gasoline) engine does that, but a compression-ignition (diesel) engine compresses only air, then injects fuel into the heated air.   But we all know that.   Who wrote this article?!   Oh dear...

John

Quote from: lvmci on December 09, 2022, 06:47:24 AM
INVERSE, GEAR,  Jackson Chen
DEC. 1, 2022
WHY HONDA THINKS HYDROGEN CARS COULD DETHRONE BATTERY-POWERED EVS

...Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. However, naturally occurring atomic hydrogen is rare on earth since it readily combines with other elements to form molecules such as water, methane (natural gas) and methanol. Hydrogen is "produced" by breaking the chemical bonds in the molecules that form these substances. Today, most hydrogen is made from natural gas, some from electrolysis of water and some from bio-methane. Since Hydrogen can be made from many different sources, every region of the world has the potential to produce its own fuel, which ultimately benefits the environment and the local economy.

When hydrogen is produced from natural gas (methane) or biomethane, what happens to all the leftover carbon?   Just wondering...

How much energy is needed to produce hydrogen, versus how much energy that the hydrogen itself has?   If it takes more energy to make it than it can give out, i.e. it's a net energy loss, then what's the point?   And how is the energy derived that makes hydrogen?  It would be ironic if electricity generated by a polluting coal-fired carbon-producing power station were used to make hydrogen...

As is so often the case, people lose sight of the big picture and have a tendency to focus on only one part of the process, conveniently ignoring the messy rest of the picture.   Hydrogen, however much that Honda wants it to be the Next Big Thing, poses more questions than it answers, at least for now.

John   

The goal as reported in some of the articles, is to have wind, solar or hydropower on small a scale, as in one small solar field, or windmill, dedicated to produce power to separate water by electrolysis  and that water can be stream, ocean or even dirty water as some scientists have been working on to produce hydrogen. All of this is having a tremendous impact on the scientific community and in turn on the financial community. The promise of clean energy seems within reach, to the producers and the consumers. More importantly to us, is the retrofitting of all diesel engines, with partial or complete retro fit with hydrogen, allowing us to keep or hobby or nomad homes for many years to come.

hydrogen fuel cells is not a new idea. There are likely a number of makor hurdles that prevent it from mass adoption.


https://www.fuelcellpartnership.net/resources
One of the "benefits" of living in Sacramento, the hub of the global environmental extremists, is being at the doorstep of the capitol where all funding flows for all this alternative energy initiatives.'California Fuel Cell Partnership

On I80 in West Sac, there has been a hydrogen fuel cell building for many years (twenty years) with the major auto brand badges on the wall.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Fuel_Cell_Partnership

It shows still active California Fuel Cell Partnership 3300 Industrial BlvdWest Sacramento CA 95691

Maybe another approach would be yank the diesel engine and switch over to electric.

There's a company that is creating a tag along single axle semi-trucks that seems to have components that we need.

Here's a YouTube video on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSB3WaeolcU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSB3WaeolcU)

And the company that is going to make it.

https://drivetandem.com/ (https://drivetandem.com/)

INTERESTINGengineering.com
Toyota is getting ready to test its hydrogen combustion engine on the streets
Toyota's hydrogen combustion engine has already made a name for itself in the Super Taikyu endurance race.
Can Emir
| Dec 09, 2022 08:21 AM EST

...Toyota created a Corolla Cross H2 hydrogen prototype that can carry five passengers and their luggage by fitting the 1.6l 3-cylinder turbo engine from the GR Corolla with high-pressure hydrogen direct injection engine technology from motorsport activity and adding the hydrogen tank packaging know-how from Mirai.

In addition to continued digital development, real-world evaluation is presently being done for the vehicle and will soon start winter testing in northern Japan.

The flexibility to utilize current internal combustion engine technologies, rapid refueling times, and a pronounced decrease in the use and requirement of materials with finite supplies like lithium and nickel are some of the main advantages of hydrogen combustion. Hydrogen combustion could result in broad, affordable carbon-reduction solutions more quickly by modifying current technologies and maximizing current investments...

I applaud the use of the word "could".
It's all still HIGHLY speculative.

Jim

I am glad that hydrogen research continues, but what I cannot stand is when people act like it's a sure thing in an effort to either A) glean money to support its development (or questionable related inventions) via misinformation or B) retard the development of electric vehicles as if only one of the two can succeed.

EVs are at this point proven tech.  They're not without flaws or limits, but without major advancements in today's technology they could continue to fulfill their niche and still help reduce overall environmental impact and reliance on nonrenewable resources at the end of the day.  Given the ever-changing pace of technology and the absolute convenience of being able to charge them from a multitude of sources, they are virtually guaranteed a place in our vehicular future.

HVs however are still waiting on that big leap to viability, and while I do hope that happens, at this point it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

The more kinds of vehicular power plant fuels the better. If the country finds itself in a position where one kind of fuel shortage dictates mass problems for Americans, like seem to happen with gasoline periodically, multiple kinds of fuel will lessen the impact of any one kind of fuel shortage. I bought a CNG fuel powered Ford pickup, during one of those times and it allowed me to commute 300 miles for work when the roads seemed pretty empty compared to non shortage times of gasoline...

The Unbearable Lightness ofHydrogen
December 12, 2022
By Michael Liebreich
Senior Contributor
BloombergNEF

...The US Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) provides a ten-year tax rebate per kilogram of green hydrogen worth $3, which will soon be more than the production cost itself. Free hydrogen anyone?...

Toyota Hilux hydrogen fuel cell pickup gets funding in UK
        This is from 2018
May 18, 2018 0 By TAMI HOOD
Toyota begins selling its new hydrogen-powered bus in Japan
Japanese automaker Toyota has begun the production and sale of its new hydrogen-powered bus, called Sora. The bus has only been launched in Japan and there are just over 100 units currently available. Sora buses are expected to operate primarily within Tokyo and may even see significant use during the 2020 Olympic Games, which will be held in the city. The Toyota Sora uses the same fuel cell technology that is currently being used to power the automaker's Mirai model.

Bus is equipped with an external energy system that can supply electricity in an emergency
The Toyota Sora has been equipped with an external power device that can supply some 235 kilowatt-hours of electrical power. This energy device could be useful in emergency situations when access to electricity is needed but disrupted in some way. This has become somewhat popular with Toyota's clean vehicles, partly due to the impact of the 2011 Fukushima earthquake. During that time, hydrogen fuel cells were used to provide emergency power to those that had no access to electricity.

Toyota Sora aims to offer a comfortable ride for passengers
The bus is designed with comfort and efficiency in mind, and its use of fuel cell technology allows it to accomplish this. The fuel cell system makes no noise, allowing the bus to operate in relative silence. The bus' seats are also programmed to store themselves while not in use, creating more room for standing passengers. No gear shifting significantly reduces the lurching that is associated with more conventional buses. The Toyota Sora is also equipped with acceleration control, which allows for smooth acceleration to make for an easier ride..

Buses are next!...

Fuel cell electric truck performance matches diesel in Toyota, Kenworth test

December 15, 2022 1 By JULIE CAMPBELL
The ZANZEFF "Shore to Store" project showed the vehicles can be used the same way, emission-free.
Toyota Motor North America and the Kenworth Truck Company recently announced that they have used testing to show that fuel cell electric truck performance can match that of equivalent diesel-powered vehicles.

Their test involved the capabilities of jointly designed zero carbon emission heavy-duty Class 8 FCEVs.
The companies jointly designed the fuel cell electric truck and tested it as a zero-emission replacement for diesel-powered trucks. The vehicles were used as a part of the operations at the Zero- and Near-Zero Emissions Freight Facilities (ZANZEFF) "Shore to Shore" project which took place at the Port of Los Angeles, the Los Angeles Basin and the Inland Empire.

Fuel Cell Electric Truck - Toyota Kenworth Fuel Cell Electric Hydrogen ZANZEFF - 02b
Toyota Kenworth Fuel Cell Electric Hydrogen ZANZEFF

The companies' main reason for collaborating in this project had to do with finding ways to replace diesel-powered drayage trucks with zero-emission, sustainable alternative solutions in heavy-duty transportation. The Toyota-Kenworth T680 FCEF vehicle's baseline – which was operated under the codename "Ocean" – was a 2017 diesel engine which required approximately 200 miles of daily operation...

But is it really zero emissions? What about all that carbon produced in creating the hydrogen in the first place?

Jim

I love these discussions. Hydrogen has been around as a niche for a long time. I did a short dive and found this https://h2fcp.org/stationmap
There are lots of places to fill up on hydrogen. Maybe California is further ahead of the fuel network but it might work for some. The home page shows a variety of hydrogen fuel cell cars that are available

guess I'm  skeptical. Remember how they praised nuclear power in the 50's? Then 3 mile Island, spent fuel rods, etc. I live about 100 bird fly miles from 3 mile island.

Ok the electrical grid sort of reaches every where while hydrogen must be created for scratch by throwing money at it that won't be returned.

https://theconversation.com/hydrogen-cars-wont-overtake-electric-vehicles-because-theyre-hampered-by-the-laws-of-science-139899 (https://theconversation.com/hydrogen-cars-wont-overtake-electric-vehicles-because-theyre-hampered-by-the-laws-of-science-139899)

Hydrogen depends of so many wrath it's that it you would be better betting you money both short and long term on the name of the racing horse... It it takes an act of congress to make it make sense, then it haves a basic life span of a bit less then two years. If you get 100% plus pay off in one year then go for it!!!

Hydrogen Central

BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
First Hydrogen Powered Truck in Texas Hits Houston Roads, Hyzon Truck
December 14, 2022
First hydrogen powered truck in Texas hits Houston roads, hyzon truck. Drivers will drive the Lone Star State's inaugural hydrogen-powered freight truck route, delivering plastic resins from Mont Belvieu to the Port of Houston for Exxon Mobil as part of a two-week pilot.

The first time Rodrigo Peña climbed into the Hyzon truck's cabin and eased his foot off the break, it wasn't the awe of being inside the first hydrogen-powered freight truck to be operated in Texas that struck him.

It was the silence.

hydrogen h2-jobs
Rodrigo Peña, said:

I could hear rocks pinging off the gravel in the yard — I could hear people blocks away.

"It was like being in a huge golf cart."

Peña and two other drivers for logistics company Talke will drive the Lone Star State's inaugural hydrogen-powered freight truck route, delivering plastic resins from Mont Belvieu to the Port of Houston for Exxon Mobil as part of a two-week pilot.

While the pilot is temporary, civic and corporate leaders along the Ship Channel expect it to help jumpstart new investments and government incentives aimed at using hydrogen to help decarbonize the shipping and trucking sectors.

Five entities, including the University of Texas at Austin, Chevron, Air Liquide and the Center for Houston's Future announced last month that they had applied to the U.S. Department of Energy to be designated as one of as many as 10 regional clean hydrogen hubs, a distinction that could bring the region a slice of $7 billion in federal funding for hydrogen projects.

Subsidies like that will be key to get hydrogen trucking off the ground, said Parker Meeks, president and interim CEO of Mendon, New York-based Hyzon Motors. He said the hydrogen hub funding would help on the fuel side, but it doesn't include funding for the trucks.

That changed with the Inflation Reduction Act signed into law this year, which will pump $400 billion into clean energy funding, including funding to help lower emissions at ports.

Parker Meeks, president and interim CEO of Mendon, said:

This transition at the start is quite expensive, and if we put all that on operators it will take a long time.

"We don't anticipate being on subsidy longer than we need to, but the IRA gives us that immediate opportunity. We always planned on getting a truck to Houston, and that time is now that we're getting that subsidy money to Houston."

Houston is already the largest producer of hydrogen in the country, used largely for refining and petrochemical processes. But the region, and much of the country outside of California, lacks the infrastructure to make it feasible for use in freight trucks or cargo ships.

Even the hydrogen used for the Port of Houston pilot projected was shipped from an Air Liquide facility in North Las Vegas, Nevada, even though an Air Liquide facility produces hydrogen just up the road in La Porte.

The Nevada facility is one of a handful of sites in the country that can liquify hydrogen, packaging it at a pressure of 7,500 pounds per square inch, said Laura Parkan, Air Liquide's vice president of hydrogen energy for the Americas...

Kinda puts me in mind of the old CCC in a way. Spending gobs of public money on questionable projects. In the end I expect it'll be OK but the country will never be the same again.

Jim

Toyota announce GR Carrola H2
Hydrogen Combustion Development

(This year Toyota, through the Rookie Racing team, has participated in all Super Taikyu endurance races in Japan with a hydrogen combustion GR Corolla H2...)

...The hydrogen combustion engine design was chosen for a number of benefits it can provide.
Among the top advantages offered by H2 internal combustion engines (ICEs) is that they provide the capacity to leverage existing ICE technologies in addition to rapid refueling times and a notable decrease in the use and requirement for rare and expensive elements of which there is a limited supply, such as lithium and nickel (required for battery production). Adaptation of existing technologies and reaching further into existing investments gives H2 ICE tech the chance to provide a faster and more accessible carbon reduction solution, said Toyota.

(ICE...Internal Combustion Engine)

Quote from: freds on December 16, 2022, 08:26:14 PM
If it takes an act of congress to make it make sense, then it has a basic life span of less than two years. If you get 100% plus pay off in one year then go for it!!!

That's a valid point and we all agree the government can be made to give money to business that makes no financial sense but sure does line the pockets of lobbyist and the special interest they represent.
I do agree hydrogen will remain a niche as it has for a couple decades, especially with EV turing the final turn to the home stretch

Why are there so many different colors of Hydrogen I cannot get my arms around it unless it has to do with process of making it ,We own property (10 miles away) in Texas close to a Hydrogen plant

Hey Don so you have all your money in EV stocks I take it as hard as you are pushing it.... LOL

Quote from: luvrbus on December 17, 2022, 10:48:39 AM
Why are there so many different colors of Hydrogen I cannot get my arms around it unless it has to do with process of making it ,We own property (10 miles away) in Texas close to a Hydrogen plant

Yes the colors have to do with the way they make it.

Sort of like cotton candy.

I am not worried about the options of fuel you have several now to choose from and more in planning stages, now prices will be another hurdle to clear a 100,000 bucks for a Telsa is out of the question for the average working family with mortgage payments and kids to raise, Inflation will drop sooner or later but prices are here to stay just like the Carter days and labor rates play catch up for years to come.Funny how DC says the rate for inflation is 8 % for Americans but they want a 20% pay raise and a 15% rental increase for their 2nd home lol and they will get it for setting on their @$# and doing nothing   
 

Quote from: Dave5Cs on December 17, 2022, 10:52:04 AM
Hey Don so you have all your money in EV stocks I take it as hard as you are pushing it.... LOL

how did you guess? With Elon melting down, Tesla stock is in a free fall. I just bought a million Friday. Going to get a brand new bus when it hits. lol

just caught this on hydrogen in CA.California approves $2.9 billion investment to double car chargers in state | Fox Business
[/font] https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/california-approves-2-9-billion-investment-double-car-chargers-state
[/font]

  I read an article last week that a lot of liberal fans and funds dumping their stock over his takeover of Twitter and cleaning it up. Included comments of outraged owners that are now selling their Teslas and will never have anything to do with Musk anymore. A few called him a Maga cronies. Go figure.

Quote from: chessie4905 on December 19, 2022, 04:53:46 AM
  I read an article last week that a lot of liberal fans and funds dumping their stock over his takeover of Twitter and cleaning it up. Included comments of outraged owners that are now selling their Teslas and will never have anything to do with Musk anymore. A few called him a Maga cronies. Go figure.

Musk doesn't care everything he touches turns into money sooner are later, poor guy is down to only 66 billion dollars now,I don't do twitter but read where he has a poll going asking if people want him to step down no big deal to him, he opened the can of worms he did what he set out to do,I don't get polls even if he steps down he still owns Twitter and going to name his successor lol all a rich man's game,Twitter stock is up 25% if he sold he would just have more billions than he paid for it, the guy is sharp   

If nothing else Musk can print headlines and get attention. That poll did tell Musk to pack his bags. He is a brilliant guy, we'll see if he uses this as an escape route out of the mess at Twitter. I don't necessarily believe that as he has never run from a fight before.
BACK TO HYDROGENnew details to me on Oregon's latest on kicking ICE to the curb. This transition off gas is now a train rolling full speed. No more if, it is just a matter when!

Hydrogen could just become a player, at least in some states.

https://apnews.com/article/business-oregon-climate-and-environment-8ee53c9c2814160a4720f4cae6f2b254 (https://apnews.com/article/business-oregon-climate-and-environment-8ee53c9c2814160a4720f4cae6f2b254)[/size]

Poll told him to pack his bags...ha ha

EV's have a long way to go only making up 6 % of new car sales,car makers are not going to overlook the other 94%.I read a article that said Telsa is the owner and the other car makers are just paying rent in the EV market

That is only for now. Tesla ain't  going to be like apple. The other mfgrs are going to eat its market share over the next several years. People still have their go to brands, and are styling conscious. Just like the modelT.
Musk is smart to start unloading stock.

I don't how many Tesla's he is selling but he is up to 3000 units a week in Texas I was told,he has everything in place it will be a while before he is dethroned ,I doubt the other makers even have service centers yet much less  a 10th of the charging stations he has in place

Won't  be too long. We are about to be deluged with electric vehicles from every mfgr in the next few years. Like Prius, Tesla styling is getting old in the tooth except for the leg humpers.

Quote from: chessie4905 on December 20, 2022, 06:36:52 AM
Won't  be too long. We are about to be deluged with electric vehicles from every mfgr in the next few years. Like Prius, Tesla styling is getting old in the tooth except for the leg humpers.

They are going to need better charging for people to charge at home,our friend says it takes about 90 hrs to charge his Tesla at home with 110 volts that is almost 4 days and he runs into the peak rate here in AZ for 4 days and cries about it after spending a 100 k on a car lol he drives for 2 days and charges for 4 days he wants a new way to charge but everything needs approval for his HOA they won't approve solar in his HOA   

they'll start approving this stuff once they figure out how to carve out their bonanza via fees.

Now that we are (FINALLY!) entering a new styling cycle hopefully things will change. Less fugly EVs are coming to market and will be more attractive (obviously) to the buyers.

Car makers can be so damned stupid. Apparently they will never learn that people prefer to buy what they like the looks of rather than being told what looks good. And this monkey see monkey do mentality is just the absolute worst. Once upon a time domestic car makers had their own unique styles and people appreciated that and voted with their dollars. Now you can just throw you money in any direction at all and get exactly the same thing. Which is FUGLY!

At least Lincoln and Cadillac are beginning to show some uniqueness. I can't say they are pretty just yet. I think the Lincoln definitely has the edge there, but it's a very welcome change from all the ugliness of the past several decades.

Jim

Quote from: chessie4905 on December 20, 2022, 09:45:54 AM
they'll start approving this stuff once they figure out how to carve out their bonanza via fees.,
[/quote

The HOA he lives in at Scottsdale the dues are as much as some house payments

Quote from: luvrbus on December 20, 2022, 06:50:31 AM


They are going to need better charging for people to charge at home,our friend says it takes about 90 hrs to charge his Tesla at home with 110 volts that is almost 4 days and he runs into the peak rate here in AZ for 4 days and cries about it after spending a 100 k on a car lol he drives for 2 days and charges for 4 days he wants a new way to charge but everything needs approval for his HOA they won't approve solar in his HOA   

Does he have a garage? All he needs a 240V NEAM 14-50 outlet installed and the charger that came with the car can refill a totally empty car in six to seven hours. You can also tell the car to charge at 1AM if you have time of day billing.

Quote from: freds on December 21, 2022, 07:38:19 AM
Does he have a garage? All he needs a 240V NEAM 14-50 outlet installed and the charger that came with the car can refill a totally empty car in six to seven hours. You can also tell the car to charge at 1AM if you have time of day billing.

The subdivision he lives in has to approve everything and the permit application he has been waiting 7 months to install his charger , you need approval to plant a tree in that place and they tell where.Sometimes when he wants a fast charge he drives to Whole Foods (Amazon) and plugs in and pays a fee they will give you 1 hour in off peak times   

Fuel cell electric truck performance matches diesel in Toyota, Kenworth test

December 15, 2022 7 By JULIE CAMPBELL
The ZANZEFF "Shore to Store" project showed the vehicles can be used the same way, emission-free.
Toyota Motor North America and the Kenworth Truck Company recently announced that they have used testing to show that fuel cell electric truck performance can match that of equivalent diesel-powered vehicles.

Their test involved the capabilities of jointly designed zero carbon emission heavy-duty Class 8 FCEVs.
The companies jointly designed the fuel cell electric truck and tested it as a zero-emission replacement for diesel-powered trucks. The vehicles were used as a part of the operations at the Zero- and Near-Zero Emissions Freight Facilities (ZANZEFF) "Shore to Shore" project which took place at the Port of Los Angeles, the Los Angeles Basin and the Inland Empire...

Key words "can match". That means "don't match yet but we remain hopeful" which means "the test was utter shite but we can fudge things a bit and keep our funding".

If the tests exceeded current capabilities you know darned well they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

Jim

Hydrogen news:

It will be wait and see but most are saying Toyota new 5.0 V8 Hydrogen fueled engine will be the end of EV's,EV's don't have a big share of the new car market to start with any share they lose they could be in trouble. Tesla is king of the mountain if they have problems watch out   

Quote from: luvrbus on December 31, 2022, 10:09:32 AM
It will be wait and see but most are saying Toyota new 5.0 V8 Hydrogen fueled engine will be the end of EV's,EV's don't have a big share of the new car market to start with

Yeah it's not going to be the end of EVs unless it produces and delivers its own hydrogen.  Running an engine on hydrogen is by far the easiest part of the whole process.

Quote from: Nova Eona on December 31, 2022, 10:11:49 AM
Yeah it's not going to be the end of EVs unless it produces and delivers its own hydrogen.  Running an engine on hydrogen is by far the easiest part of the whole process.

They will get there with players like Cummins and Toyota in the Hydrogen game  Cummins being the 1st in truck engines and Toyota the # 1 car manufacture even Caterpillar is into 100% Hydrogen engines. I read where another EU country besides Switzerland is limiting the sale of EV's I am not too worried about the green deal anyways in my lifetime diesel fuel works ok for me,I get a laugh out of people driving a bus with the nastiest polluting engine ever made pushing the EV's deal  8)EV's like the Tesla are nice cars but they are not for everyone and not all people are going to buy in to EV's 

elec and hyrodgen will co-exist. the balance will be fully driven by government subsidies and politics

Quote from: windtrader on December 31, 2022, 05:12:50 PM
elec and hyrodgen will co-exist. the balance will be fully driven by government subsidies and politics

So true as the saying goes "He who has the gold makes the rules"

hydrogen fueled vs electric fueled  to me is like Webasto vs propane furnaces. One gets the job done, but much simpler. We'll  see. I can make lots of popcorn.

Quote from: chessie4905 on January 01, 2023, 05:07:55 AM
hydrogen fueled vs electric fueled  to me is like Webasto vs propane furnaces. One gets the job done, but much simpler. We'll  see. I can male lots of popcorn.

The world is hooked on petrol it's not going away, can you see the military in battle stopping to charge a tank or changing a fuel cell,the ships would be ok they are nuke power

January 5, 2023 0 By BRET WILLIAMS
The company plans to reach its green H2 transportation goal by 2030.
Plug Power Inc. (PLUG) believes that green H2 produced from renewable power will help the transportation sector reach carbon neutrality, which it aims to accomplish with its green hydrogen highway project by 2030.

Plug is working on making renewable hydrogen production as affordable as diesel.
Plug Power's support of green hydrogen is nothing new. The Albany-based company has been a hydrogen energy solutions provider for years. However, it's green hydrogen highway project is one of its – and the world's – most ambitious clean energy projects. In essence, the company is trying to achieve green H2 production affordability, so that production will match the price of diesel.

green hydrogen highway - Diesel pump


However, the current challenge faced by renewable hydrogen is that the cost to generate it is too high to make it cost-effective. This is especially true for the trucking industry where the price of H2 must be on par or closer to the cost of diesel for signification adoption to take place.

Plug has been working on not only creating a renewable source of fuel but one that is affordable. It has over 50,000 e-mobility units in operation, mostly forklifts. What's more, with the help of government support, such as the Inflation Reduction Act, this will only help to drive the cost down more.

"Every time we doubled the number of units in the field, our costs declined by about 25%," said Plug Power president and CEO Andy
There are several aspects that contribute to the potential of Plug's green hydrogen goal.
Among the different ways Plug is attempting to reach its green hydrogen highway 2030 target is through various partnerships, including with Renault. The two companies entered a joint venture called HYVIA to make H2-TECH hydrogen-powered commercial vans. The Master Van H2-TECH can carry a payload of up to one ton and reach almost 250 miles per tank. This zero-emission vehicle is suited for all commercial transport applications.

...Among its big-name customers include Amazon, Microsoft, Walmart, General Motors, and Home Depot.

One Billion Hours at Plug
Moreover, the company has long been building the infrastructure, service and distribution network that is required to make green H2 more readily available by the end of the decade. It also built a gigafactory in 2021.

At Plug's gigafactory, the company manufactures the membrane electrode assemblies – approximately 2 million annually – which are key components in its electrolyzers and fuel cells. Additionally, the company has 31 other facilities it uses to make other parts and systems, process hydrogen, and for distribution and service purposes...

Sounds like another pipe dream. Hopefully, the investors don't  get screwed again while top executives enjoy rich lifestyle while little actually goes into product. Then another failed concept. We will see.

The University of Michigan's Water Splitting Method Makes Hydrogen Like Plants Do
The university says it's more efficient, greener, and potentially cheaper than the way we make hydrogen now.
Justin BannerWriterGetty ImagesPhotographerJan 10, 2023
Motor trend
When it comes to greener ways to power our cars, two main avenues are emerging: battery-electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles (HCEVs) like the Toyota Mirai. While EVs are the major focus of most manufacturers, HCEVs have been shown to be less polluting than gasoline vehicles. But there are many ways of producing hydrogen, and not all of them are as green as we'd like. But new production methods are the subject of a new University of Michigan study, and the researchers claim to have found a way to not only make hydrogen production greener, but also cheaper.

Hydrogen is an excellent replacement for petroleum in internal combustion engines. Studies have shown it is a very green fuel at the tailpipe and wouldn't take much to convert current cars to run on the naturally occurring and fairly abundant element... Hydrogen is currently produced in a few ways, like electrolysis (using electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water molwhat if we were to use the sun to create hydrogen instead? According to FuelCellWorks, the University of Michigan may have a more efficient way to do that.

The demonstration was kicked off by Air Liquide, Hyzon Motors and TALKE.
The companies launched the first demonstration of a hydrogen fuel cell truck at the Port of Houston, which was the site of a 10-day trial of Hyzon's H2 trucks that TALKE Group deployed in daily drayage operations hauling cargo loads within the Texas-based port.

The demonstration of hydrogen mobility is essential for speeding up the clean fuel energy transition.

The hydrogen fuel cell truck demonstration is important for accelerating the energy transition toward clean fuel, particularly for supporting heavy duty vehicles like trucks and hydrogen infrastructure. Air Liquide signed a separate agreement with Hyzon Motors early in 2022 to commercially pilot and test two heavy duty hydrogen fuel cell electric trucks.

"Nikola has spent the greater part of two years developing a flexible mobile fueling solution which cools and compresses hydrogen to rapidly fill 700 bar FCEV heavy-duty trucks," said Michael Lohscheller, Nikola Corporation president and CEO. "Coupled with Nikola's hydrogen tube trailer, with a capacity of 960 kg, Nikola's mobile fueler can refuel customer trucks back-to-back. This will deliver flexible hydrogen fueling solutions for our customers starting in 2023 and will complement Nikola's permanent hydrogen fueling stations which are being developed."

Nikola's first mobile fueler for hydrogen fuel cell trucks has finished commissioning and testing.
The company's first mobile fueler has already completed its commissioning and testing phase for the project and is now being released into market operation. It has also received additional commissions for mobile fuelers for the first quarter of this year...

I was reading this article on Motor Trend magazine and a thought occurred to me about peoples reticence about how long it will take to build the infrastructure for hydrogen fueling stations. It took a time to build out the modern fueling stations for CNG.
T. Boone Pickens added to and built from scratch CNG stations all over the US, in a relatively short period of time. The comparison of CNG to Hydrogens are high. This excerpt of the articles talks about how one big company dealt with the charging issues...
Motor Trend Magazine.
Go Inside the New Tesla Semi: Features, Screens, Seats, and More
We visited Frito-Lay to find out what the Semi's interior looks like, and how it drives and charges.
Christian SeabaughWriterBrandon LimPhotographerJan 25, 2023
...The out-and-backs are crucial because at the moment there are few places to charge an electric Tesla Semi. Frito-Lay installed four Superchargers onsite in dedicated "Tesla Semi" parking stalls, all of which feature a unique squarish plug incompatible with any other Tesla we're aware of. The chargers are capable of outputting 750 kW, far exceeding the 250-kW peak rates of Tesla's passenger vehicles and existing Supercharger network. That, says Frito-Lay, is good enough to charge its fleet of Tesla Semis from nearly empty to 70 percent in about a half hour (good for 400 miles), and to 100 percent in about 90 minutes...

Energy News
SCIENTISTS DEVELOP SOLAR BATTERY FOR HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
By Anela Dokso
January 27, 2023

Chemical engineers at Lausanne's École Polytechnique Federale developed a translucent and porous electrode-based solar-powered artificial sheet.
The artificial leaf converts atmospheric water into hydrogen fuel. Semiconductor technology is scalable.

For decades, academics have dreamed of a solar-powered gadget that harvests airborne water and produces hydrogen fuel. EPFL Chemical Engineer Kevin Sivula and his team have advanced that vision.

The team's innovative yet simple approach combines semiconductor technology with new electrodes that are porous to promote air-water contact and transparent to optimize sunlight's effect on the semiconductor coating. The device absorbs airborne water and generates hydrogen gas when exposed to sunshine.

This solar-powered system uses transparent, porous, and conductive gaseous diffusion electrodes to transform air-borne water into hydrogen fuel.

Wonder if they've found a way to backflush it once it gets clogged with atmospheric pollutants?

Probably very expensive at this stage. Maybe in 20 years we'll have something affordable.

Jim

You reading this stuff in Popular Science equivalent on the net? Btw, do they still list those weather balloons for 15 bucks?lol

Quote from: chessie4905 on January 30, 2023, 11:18:01 AM
You reading this stuff in Popular Science equivalent on the net? Btw, do they still list those weather balloons for 15 bucks?lol

I never thought I would see electric cars passing me @75 mph either but here we are,it is happening some big players with lots of money,plus countries like India spending 2.3 billion to make it happen, they say it will be trillion dollar industry in 5 years even the Saudi's are in the game with their deep pockets.lol you may live long enough John to buy a hydrogen powered car     

Hell No. REMEMBER THE HINDENBURG! 🤔

Hell No. REMEMBER THE HINDENBURG! 🤔

I'm sure all the negatives and hard to solve problems have been discussed and figured out by Scientists, as that is what they do. Battery development, compressing natural gas, delivery of gasoline to distant distribution points and getting vast amounts of electricity from dams and electrical facility, first DC then AC had to be worked out by engineers and scientists also...

Reuters home
January 31, 20234:59 AM PST
Johnson Matthey partners with Plug Power to boost hydrogen tech
By Aby Jose Koilparambil
Opening of hydrogen filling station for trucks and cars in Berlin

Jan 31 (Reuters) - Johnson Matthey (JMAT.L) said on Tuesday it was partnering in hydrogen technology with U.S.-based Plug Power (PLUG.O) until at least 2030, as the British company hones its focus on its green hydrogen-related business.

Companies globally are increasing investments in green hydrogen, a zero-carbon fuel made by using renewable power from wind and solar to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, in their quest for energy which does not add to global warming.
Green hydrogen has been identified some as a potentially important way of decarbonising transport, by powering vehicles with only water as a by-product, as countries are looking to meet their net zero goals.

Johnson Matthey is a leading supplier of catalyst coated membranes (CCMs), which are a key component of fuel cells which use hydrogen fuel to generate electricity.

The London-based firm said it would supply a substantial portion of Plug's demand for components of fuel cells and electrolysers, to be used for green hydrogen production.

Interesting,  doesn't seem to be up on the recent announcements...11 minute video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL1ukYK4_DY

Researchers use sea water to produce green hydrogen at almost 100% efficiency

February 7, 2023 2 By TAMI HOOD
The Adelaide University team found a way to cleanly make H2 without requiring fresh water.

"We have split natural seawater into oxygen and hydrogen with nearly 100 percent efficiency, to produce green hydrogen by electrolysis, using a non-precious and cheap catalyst in a commercial electrolyser," explained Professor Shi-Zhang Qiao, project leader at the School of Chemical Engineering at the University of Adelaide.
The researchers' key to making green hydrogen from sea water was a Lewis acid coating on the catalyst.
Researchers worldwide have been – and are currently – testing a range of different materials for use as catalysts. The majority of the most efficient options tend to be rare precious metals such as platinum, ruthenium and iridium. Some of the less expensive, non-precious materials used for catalysts are transition metal oxide catalysts such as cobalt oxide with a chromium oxide coating.
The researchers made a breakthrough in the use of sea water for producing renewable H2 when they added a layer of Lewis acid, which is a specific acid type, such as chromium(III) oxide, Cr2O3) on a catalyst made of a transition metal oxide. Not only did this make it possible to use less expensive and more available materials, but the process also proved to be highly effective, according to the researchers.

"The performance of a commercial electrolyser with our catalysts running in seawater is close to the performance of platinum/iridium catalysts running in a feedstock of highly purified deionised water," said Associate professor Yao Zheng of the University of Adelaide.

"We used seawater as a feedstock without the need for any pre-treatment processes like reverse osmosis desolation, purification, or alkalisation," added Zheng in an explanation of how the sea water was not required treated so that it was usable to make green hydrogen, as would be the case using existing methods.

"Current electrolysers are operated with highly purified water electrolyte. Increased demand for hydrogen to partially or totally replace energy generated by fossil fuels will significantly increase scarcity of increasingly limited freshwater resources," said Zheng.

The research was published in the Nature Energy journal.

Honda and GM to Produce Systems for Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars and Trucks

February 8, 2023 2 By BRET WILLIAMS
The systems will start being produced this year with gradual production increases over this decade.
A hydrogen fuel cell system co-developed by Honda Motor and General Motors (GM) will begin production this year and will gradually increase its numbers throughout this decade.

...I saw both the GM and Honda hydrogen combustion and hydrogen electric vehicle here in Las Vegas several years ago, Honda had a hydrogen fueling station in Las Vegas...

It has nothing to do with transportation engines but in CA  they are changing the largest power plant in LA over to green Hydrogen.They are starting by adding Hydrogen to the natural gas, then over to full Hydrogen. I bet a power bill for the price of changing is going to give people in LA sticker shock for power usage. I don't know what they are trying to accomplish, natural gas is a clean fuel and cheap.     

So how does this work? The power plant burns hydrogen to produce power that is then used to produce hydrogen that is then used to produce power that...

Sounds like perpetual motion to me. Need to boost the efficiency of all the processes to something like 110% and then maybe it could work. How they plan to do that I haven't a clue.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 09, 2023, 02:12:15 PM
So how does this work? The power plant burns hydrogen to produce power that is then used to produce hydrogen that is then used to produce power that...

Sounds like perpetual motion to me. Need to boost the efficiency of all the processes to something like 110% and then maybe it could work. How they plan to do that I haven't a clue.

Jim

They say it will made by wind power and solar.lol Az will sending our power to the nut cases,can you picture in your mind windmills in LA
 

offshore. done many places around the world

Quote from: windtrader on February 09, 2023, 08:18:47 PM
offshore. done many places around the world

Windmills are not that stable, my cousin sent me a photo of windmills falling down in the OK panhandle around Guymon OK.I am sure if they are falling down in OK they are having problems around the world.Maybe Don Quixote has something to do with it he had a thing about windmills.   

Quote from: chessie4905 on January 30, 2023, 01:18:01 PM
Hell No. REMEMBER THE HINDENBURG! 🤔

Actually they did a Myth Busters episode on it and it was more the composition of the skin material rather than the hydrogen itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkeNRXRJixA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkeNRXRJixA)

Speaking of Hindenburgs...

How about some trivia? Balloons of this type have traversed the whole world five times in the last 1/2 dozen years. I know one thing - if I was head of Alaska's state government I'd be in trouble with the Feds when I told them " phuck it! I'm shootin' it down!" Lmao
On a more serious note: kinda scary...

A bIt off the subject. Don't think it was a hydrogen filled Baloon, probably helium filled...

Yeah sorry for the thread drift but I had to go off on Chessie's mention of the Hindenberg. I read that the fighter pilot used lots of caution when hitting it not knowing what kind of an explosion it would create. Back to your regularly scheduled program... :^

Dan, speaking of the Hindenberg, I heard on the radio today that a scientist confirmed it was the paint on the blimp that caught fire initially, that spread to the internal structure and explosions...

 HYDROGEN NEWS
February 10, 2023 1 By TAMI HOOD

The new facility will be carbon negative in its production of H2 in California.

SGH2 Energy Global Corporation has announced that it has received the final approval required to move ahead with its carbon-negative green hydrogen production facility.

The announcement showed that SGH2 had overcome the last hurdle in gaining all the necessary approvals.

The SGH2 recently received the approval for the company's use permit (CUP) from the City of Lancaster (CA) Planning Commission. At the same time, it received its environmental impact statement (CEQA). These approvals have given the thumbs up to the Full Investment Decision (FID) and Engineering, Procurement and Construction (EPC) phase of the green hydrogen production plant project.

"This is a major milestone for SGH2, the City of Lancaster and the world," said the CEO of SGH2 Dr. Robert T. Co. "Not only are we producing more hydrogen with a larger negative carbon footprint than other proposed green hydrogen projects, but we have now cleared a steep hurdle that no other large-scale green hydrogen company has achieved."

The green hydrogen plant not only produces renewable H2 but the facility itself has limited pollutants.

"Our facility has a low environmental footprint with minimal polluting emissions or effluents and meets all California's strict state and local environmental and safety standards," said Do. "All the carbon-negative clean hydrogen we produce has long-term off-take agreements and will supply hydrogen refueling stations (HRS) in the Los Angeles metropolitan areas while simultaneously supporting the California Energy Commission's (CEC) and the Air Resources Board's (CARB) goal of decarbonizing our heavy mobility footprint."
"Lancaster is proud to be home to this ground-breaking project," said the Mayor of Lancaster R. Rex Parris. "SGH2 is a proven innovator in green hydrogen technology and now has the green light to begin engineering and construction. We are excited to see this cutting-edge project break ground in the U.S.'s first hydrogen city."

The green hydrogen facility will place the spotlight on SGH2's pioneering Solena Plasma Enhanced Gasification (SPEG) technology. SPEG converts recycled mixed paper waste into clean, carbon negative H2. This process cuts CO2 emissions by two to three times more than conventionally produced renewable H2.

CategoryHydrogen companies Green Hydrogen News Hydrogen news United States

Alstom hydrogen train demonstration project to launch in Quebec

Germany has hydrogen trains, don't they?,I saw a Union Pacific train engine with a Hydrogen fueled Cat engine at the MK yard in Boise 2 years ago they were working on. 

NREL.GOV
Hydrogen Blending as a Pathway Toward U.S. Decarbonization

Jan. 24, 2023 | By Natasha Nguyen | Contact media relations

The U.S. natural gas infrastructure is expansive, providing service for 32% of the nation's energy consumption in 2021. To reduce the emissions from natural gas service, blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines could prove to be a promising, cost-effective pathway. It would not only use existing natural gas infrastructure but also serve key end users where electrification is uneconomic.

Hydrogen is an energy carrier that can be produced and consumed with nearly zero emissions in several key markets where natural gas is used today. Blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines is just one of these markets, but numerous challenges and uncertainties complicate this approach.

A technical report coauthored by researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), Sandia National Laboratories, and Pacific Northwest National Laboratory reviewed the state of hydrogen blending technology to provide direction for future hydrogen blending research. The report, titled "Hydrogen Blending into Natural Gas Pipeline Infrastructure: Review of the State of Technology," explores material, economic, and operational factors that must be considered, including summaries of studies that developed relevant mathematical models used to study how blending hydrogen impacts the operation of natural gas transmission and distribution infrastructure.

"The concept of blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines is not new and has been around for decades, but there remain large knowledge gaps," said Mark Chung, NREL's hydrogen systems analysis lead. "We hope this study serves as a useful reference for those considering blending demonstrations or future areas of related research."...

 NREL.gov News » Hydrogen Blending as a Pathway Toward U.S. Decarbonization
Jan. 24, 2023 | By Natasha Nguyen | Contact media relations

The U.S. natural gas infrastructure is expansive, providing service for 32% of the nation's energy consumption in 2021. To reduce the emissions from natural gas service, blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines could prove to be a promising, cost-effective pathway. It would not only use existing natural gas infrastructure but also serve key end users where electrification is uneconomic.

Hydrogen is an energy carrier that can be produced and consumed with nearly zero emissions in several key markets where natural gas is used today. Blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines is just one of these markets...
...A technical report coauthored by researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), Sandia National Laboratories, and Pacific Northwest National Laboratory reviewed the state of hydrogen blending technology to provide direction for future hydrogen blending research. The report, titled "Hydrogen Blending into Natural Gas Pipeline Infrastructure: Review of the State of Technology," explores material, economic, and operational factors that must be considered, including summaries of studies that developed relevant mathematical models used to study how blending hydrogen impacts the operation of natural gas transmission and distribution infrastructure.

"The concept of blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines is not new and has been around for decades, but there remain large knowledge gaps," said Mark Chung, NREL's hydrogen systems analysis lead. "We hope this study serves as a useful reference for those considering blending demonstrations or future areas of related research."...

Quote from: lvmci on February 16, 2023, 03:14:40 PM
NREL.gov News » Hydrogen Blending as a Pathway Toward U.S. Decarbonization
Jan. 24, 2023 | By Natasha Nguyen | Contact media relations
"The concept of blending hydrogen into natural gas pipelines is not new and has been around for decades, but there remain large knowledge gaps," said Mark Chung, NREL's hydrogen systems analysis lead. "We hope this study serves as a useful reference for those considering blending demonstrations or future areas of related research."...

The problem is that a lot of the hydrogen can leak out before it gets to the consumer since hydrogen is a very slipper element that will transfuse through solid steel and currently natural gas pipeline's leak at it is at a rate of 2-4% and that's with methane not hydrogen which leaks faster. (maybe as high as 10%)..

Quote from: luvrbus on February 10, 2023, 06:43:38 PM
Germany has hydrogen trains, don't they?

They are low-speed short-distance local and commuter trains for the relatively few lines that are still not electrified there.   Most trains in Europe are electric;  even Britain is slooooowly extending its rail electrification!

John

I read to day where they are converting Methane gas to Hydrogen.lol I could comment on that one  :^ I know several people who make a lot of Methane after eating Mexican food   

Hydrogen Fuel News
Wrightbus plans to develop green hydrogen production plant in Ballymena
February 17, 2023 0 By ANGIE BERGENSON
The Northern Ireland-based bus manufacturer will make a multi-pound investment in the project.
Wrightbus intends to build the new green hydrogen production plant in partnership with Oxford-based Hygen Energy at Wrightbus' Ballymena site.
The plant will produce enough clean hydrogen to fuel hundreds of buses a day.
Wrightbus plans to adapt an existing brick building on a 2.5-acre site at its Ballymena headquarters for the new facility.

As part of the company's business is the manufacturing of buses powered by hydrogen fuel, the new facility would help to establish a reliable source of fuel for the buses as well as other hydrogen-powered vehicles.

Once it begins operation, the plant is expected to initially generate enough green hydrogen to power 300 hydrogen buses a day in Northern Ireland.

This green hydrogen project will help to further decarbonize bus routes in the UK.

"Hydrogen is the best means of decarbonising many bus routes, but for this to happen bus operators need a reliable and voluminous supply of low cost, low carbon hydrogen," said chairman of Wrightbus, Jo Bamford.
Presently, most hydrogen produced in the UK is generated by splitting it from natural gas. Though the end product is emission free, this production method emits carbon dioxide. Since green hydrogen is produced through renewable electricity via electrolysis, generating it is emission-free or produces very low carbon.

The initial plans for sourcing renewable energy for the Ballymena facility electrolyzer has not yet been finalized. The company will either buy the electricity from an existing renewable generator or develop its own means to generate renewable power, such as through solar or wind.

Wrightbus is no stranger to clean transportation. Back in 2020, the company launched the first fleet of hydrogen-powered double-decker buses in the world. This fleet of buses, some of which are operated by Translink, reached an incredible milestone in November of last year (2022), covering 1.75 million kilometers (1.087 million miles) since first being rolled out for service.

The green Wrightbus: a UK export success story
"With our Hydroliner buses now moving passengers every day in a number of cities across the UK...Hydrogen is the best means of decarbonising many bus routes," Bamford said, adding, "This project will initially be able to produce enough hydrogen to run up to 300 buses, and has the potential to triple in scale as demand for hydrogen increases."

Wrightbus hopes the hydrogen production project will be an example for how such projects will be designed and built.

Though planning permission has not yet been granted for the hydrogen production plant project, Wrightbus will submit an application to Mid and East Antrim Borough Council in April. The goal is for a planning decision by winter 2023 with the possibility of the facility up and running by summer 2024.

I believe Japan will be the leader in the Hydrogen development. Japan depends on importing around 90% of their petroleum and the nuclear power didn't work out good for Japan   

Hydrogen fuel news

February 23, 2023 0 By JULIE CAMPBELL
The interest in hydrogen is rising due to its appeal for powering trucks and vans as well as government aid.
Interest in fuel cell vehicles is rapidly on the rise and trucks and government subsidies are receiving a great deal of credit for moving this trend along as quickly as it is going. In particular, the US Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) has been seen as placing the spotlight on H2 as a practical alternative to battery electrics.
Though battery electric vehicles (BEVs) have become quite popular, hydrogen is also taking off.
Zero emission passenger cars are certainly seeing the most growth in the BEV category. That said, vans and trucks carry heavier loads and must often travel longer distances. Long-haul fleet operators often say that batteries for those types of applications are too heavy, require too much charging time, and could overload existing power grids...
cell vehicles and BEVs alike.

As is the case with BEVs and their recharging infrastructure, a top challenge to rolling out fleets of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is that a widespread refueling infrastructure is not yet in place. This has placed notable pressure to begin constructing hydrogen refueling stations even ahead of the mainstream use of H2 trucks and vans.
In the United States, the IRA offers subsidies for inexpensive H2 and refueling infrastructure that is receiving praise from industry executives that say this will help to accelerate the development of heavy-duty pickup trucks and semi-trucks.
"Thanks to the IRA, things will move faster in the U.S.," said Symbio fuel cell maker CEO Philippe Rosier. Symbio is a French joint venture between Michelin and Faurecia.

Proponents of H2 believe that this type of support for the development of the trucks and the construction of refilling station networks will make a substantial difference in the adoption of the technology on a larger scale. Stellantis vans, which receives its fuel cells from Symbio, predicts that the sale of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles worldwide will reach 2 million units per year by 2030.

A few years back I ran camera on the introduction if the first self driving 18 wheeler announced at the Hoover Dam by Daimler on a world wide internet show. I think all these advances will work its way to buses, lvmci...

Hydrogen Fuel News
Nikola's hydrogen fuel trucks to be first in US with PlusDrive automation
Nikola's hydrogen fuel trucks to be first in US with PlusDrive automation
March 2, 2023 0 By ALICIA MOORE

They will be the first Class 9 fuel cell electric vehicles with the automated driving system in the United States.
Nikola Corporation – best known for its hydrogen fuel trucks and fueling network plans – has announced that it has selected PlusDrive as an option for Nikola Tre vehicles that will be rolling out next year.

PlusDrive is a safety, fuel efficiency and driver comfort enhancement system developed by Plus.
hydrogen news ebookPlus is an automated truck developer and its PlusDrive was selected to be available in both the battery electric and hydrogen fuel trucks Nikola will be selling in the U.S. starting next year.

"PlusDrive elevates the role of the professional driver to a pilot who supervises the system to drive on the highway," read a recent press release describing the automated assistance system. "Its capabilities go far beyond basic driver assistance capabilities such as lane keeping and automatic emergency brakes. PlusDrive also handles everything from staying centered in the lane, lane changes, merges, stop-and-go traffic, and nudging, while the driver remains alert and attentive."

Nikola has confirmed that the first factory installed PlusDrive in hydrogen fuel trucks will be next year.
"The enhanced driver assistance features are yet another differentiator of Nikola's premium driver experience for our customers," explained Nikola Corporation president and CEO Michael Lohscheller. "We are one of the first OEMs to offer 100% electric steering paired with the ZF EBS braking system. This base technology in all our vehicles, combined with Nikola's own internally developed vehicle controls, over-the-air updates and vehicle security can enable the integration of these advanced sensors and the realization of the PlusDrive safety system from Plus."
PlusDrive will also help to ensure that the battery electric and hydrogen fuel trucks are providing their best efficiency.

Ensuring the best efficiency and performance from hydrogen fuel and battery electric trucks.


The announcement from Nikola explained that "PlusDrive will moderate and predict the optimal and safest speed, while also taking full advantage of regenerative braking in traffic and slowing conditions. Also, the vehicle is expected to keep the best position within the lane and account for other large vehicles and
Not unlike other existing automated driving systems, the PlusDrive system to be installed in Nikola trucks use radar, a spectrum of cameras and LiDAR. The vehicle maker views this addition as an opportunity to considerably enhance the capacity of a driver to safely interact with other road users, providing added liability protection to the driver and vehicle owner alike.

Though PlusDrive isn't newly developed for Nikola, the electric and hydrogen fuel trucks will include a new capability to the system that was first announced in the company's release. It stated that "When not in use on the highway, the Nikola Tre BEV and hydrogen electric vehicles will maintain the ability to detect obstacles and traffic in the blind spots. Other traffic, including motorcycles and pedestrians, will continue to be highlighted to provide drivers with their proximity information."
The PlusDrive system to be offered in the Nikola tricks are meant for use in all traffic conditions.
The announcement also added that "The system will work in all traffic conditions, including loading docks. Pedestrian safety around the trucks is especially important as much quieter zero-emissions vehicles become a mainstay. The system will highlight pedestrians around the vehicle to help ensure safety of typical operations including loading and unloading, inspections, and charging and fueling. Safe operation during high-power charging and hydrogen fueling will also be supplemented with detection and recording features."

This is a considerable leap forward for the system that was developed for highway use, as street and yard operations by their very nature are associated with a considerably higher number of incidents.

Hydrogen news
First-of-its-kind Electriq Powder manufacturing plant to be built in Amsterdam
March 3, 2023 1 By ANGIE BERGENSON
The powder plant can provide a safe end-to-end hydrogen solution.
A recently announced partnership between hydrogen solution provider, Electriq, and global energy storage and handling company, Zenith Energy Terminals, will see the construction of the world's first Electriq Powder manufacturing plant, at the Port of Amsterdam.

The unique powder plant can simplify hydrogen storage, transport and usage.
Powder is a solid hydrogen carrier. It simplifies storage, transport, and use of hydrogen in last mile, off-grid and backup applications. Electriq's fuel and release technologies transform hydrogen into a coffee-like powder form. It acts like common detergent powder and has superior safety and energy density compared to liquified and compressed hydrogen. It is then converted back into electricity via a propriety, compact release unit.

Hydrogen engines to be mass produced by Hyundai by 2025
March 7, 2023 0 By ALICIA MOORE

Hyundai Doosan Infracore is accelerating engine development.
After the completion of its H2 internal combustion engines (ICE) design and rolling out the prototype, Hyundai Doosan Infracore (HDI) is revving up the development of its hydrogen engines, with the aim to mass produce these engines by 2025.

HDI's H2 ICE is an 11-litre class engine.
hydrogen news ebookThe hydrogen-powered internal combustion engine can produce a power output of 300 kW (402 HP) and a torque of 1700 NM at 2000 RPM. Fulfilling Tier 5/Stage 5/Euro7 regulation, the engine satisfies the emission requirements to be 90% decreased to the current level to meet Zero CO2 (below 1g/kwh) and Zero Impact Emission.
Low-purity hydrogen is used to power the hydrogen engines. This makes the engines not only strong, energy-dense and economical, but the most suitable engine system for mid-to-large-size vehicles and vehicles traveling long distances. Just one charge of 10 minutes allows for a distance up to 500 km (310.6 miles), meanwhile the H2 internal combustion engines are 25-30% more economical than battery packs or fuel cells when vehicle price and maintenance costs are factored in.
The new hydrogen engines will be installed in commercial vehicles.
To both accelerate commercialization and lower costs, HDI plans to leverage its current engine technology and facilities. The new hydrogen engines that will be produced will be installed on commercial vehicles, including large buses, trucks and construction equipment. HDI will unveil its prototype hydrogen-powered ICE power unit this year (2023), with plans for full-scale testing slated for 2024, and full-scale mass production planned for the following year in 2025.

Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority
SEPTA BOARD APPROVES PURCHASE OF 10 FUEL CELL BUSES

Part of SEPTA's Zero Emission Bus Initiative; Pilot Program to Start in Late 2024

Published February 28, 2023

PHILADELPHIA (February 28, 2023) – The SEPTA Board this month approved a contract for the purchase of 10 fuel cell electric buses (FCEBs), made in the United States by New Flyer of America. The purchase will allow SEPTA to evaluate this technology as the Authority develops plans for a zero-emission bus fleet.

FCEBs are powered by electricity derived from hydrogen fuel cells, resulting in zero tailpipe emissions and improved air quality for riders, neighbors, and communities. Hydrogen buses offer similar range and performance as diesel-hybrid buses with quieter operation, lower maintenance costs, and less than half the lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions.

I was expecting the tankage issue to be REAL hurdle for hydrogen use but now I see they've sorted out a method to catalyze hydrogen into a powder, meaning basically no more leakage issues to amount to much. (Hydrogen gas being the universe's smallest atom or molecule will float right through any other material given time and pressure, and compressed hydrogen takes a LOT of pressure. Especially if you think you can liquify it.)

This new powdered storage method should make that mostly a problem of the past from what they are saying. Time will tell.

Jim

Hydrogen news

March 13, 2023 0 By ANGIE BERGENSON
Cummins introduces Accelera, its New Power business unit.
Cummins Inc. (NYSE: CMI) recently announced the launch of Accelera, the new Cummins brand for its New Power business unit, which will provide a varied portfolio of zero-emissions solutions for many of the world's most critical industries that are helping their customers to speed up their shift to a sustainable future.



Cummins has taken a significant step forward to achieve its Destination Zero strategy.
hydrogen news ebookThe Destination Zero strategy focuses on evolving the company's technologies to reach zero emissions across its entire product portfolio by 2050, and launching Accelera has helped to give Cummins a boost in reaching its objective.


Cummins has invested over $1.5 billion in research and technology, capital and acquisitions over the past several years to build Accelera's technological and leadership capabilities. This new Cummins brand is now a worldwide leader in zero-emissions technologies. Today, it provides fuel cell electric and battery electric solutions across industrial and commercial applications with hundreds of electrolyzers producing hydrogen across the globe.



"Establishing Accelera reinforces our commitment to leading in zero-emissions solutions and highlights our unmatched ability to leverage our deep understanding of our customers' needs and applications, technical expertise and extensive service and support network to walk hand in hand with our customers throughout the energy transition," said Jennifer Rumsey, Cummins President and Chief Executive Officer, in a media release.

The new Cummins brand is advancing an array of zero-emissions solutions.
Among Accelera's new solutions include hydrogen fuel cells, electrolyzers, batteries, e-axles and traction systems, to sustainably power various industries from chemical production to commercial transportation.



Functioning as an integrator and a supplier, Accelera is decarbonizing a range of applications such as trucks, trains, buses, construction equipment, carbon intense industrial processes and
"The purpose of Accelera is simple – to secure a sustainable future for the industries that keep the world running," said Amy Davis, a 25+ year Cummins veteran, the leader of Cummins New Power business unit, and Accelera's president.

According to Davis, launching the new Cummins brand drives extra focus in Cummins' business operations and allows the company to keep ahead of the constantly-changing zero-emissions landscape.



"By leveraging Cummins' deep understanding of our customers' needs and the demands of their applications, Accelera will deliver leading zero-emissions technologies necessary to accelerate the shift to zero."

Yeah but that's just Marketeering vaporspeak. Doesn't really mean anything even if you can figure out what it says. Where's the Beef?

Jim

I read where Accelera and Blue Bird are going to use the technology in a test of 1000 school buses,sad part of the deal it  is not going create jobs here all the components will be made in China and Europe and shipped here.

"PlusDrive also handles everything from staying centered in the lane, lane changes, merges, stop-and-go traffic, and nudging, while the driver remains alert and attentive."   What??   I don't want to be 'nudged' by an 80,000lb truck, or anything else on the road!   And exactly how does "the driver remain alert and attentive" while he or she is "supervising the system"?   Oh brave new world...

John

Cummins new engine:
Cummins introduces fuel-agnostic 15-liter engine at ConExpo
By Julian Buckley15 March 2023

Cummins has unveiled its new 15-liter, fuel agnostic engine at the ConExpo trade show in Las Vegas. The single platform is capable of supporting various fuel types, including hydrogen, natural gas and diesel.

"Cummins' all-new platform takes internal combustion to a new level, capable of meeting future ultra-low emission standards, such as EPA Tier 5 and EU Stage 6, together with a low-to-zero carbon fuel capability to help put construction and quarrying sites on a lower cost path to decarbonisation," said Antonio Leitao, VP Global Off-highway Engine Business.

The 15-liter platform has a common engine block fitted with cylinder heads tailored for the intended fuel type. Power rating with hydrogen fuel is up to 530 hp (395 kW); peak torque is 2600 Nm. Using HVO and biodiesel figures the engine can deliver up to 650 hp (485 kW) and 3000 Nm of torque. Biogas versions deliver between 400 and 510 hp (298 to 380 kW), with peak torque of 2500 Nm...

My Cummins  ISX 15 diesel can deliver those numbers, I dropped mine back to 600 hp from 650 hp

FirstElement Fuel's H2 refueling stations support Hyundai Motor's fuel cell truck pilot program

Hydrogen News

March 16, 2023 0 By BRET WILLIAMS
The two companies have partnered on hydrogen refueling of class 8 fuel cell electric trucks.
A recent partnership announced between FirstElement Fuel and Hyundai Motor will see FirstElement's liquid H2 refueling stations provide fuel to test Hyundai Motor's XCIENT Fuel Cell Heavy Duty trucks in California.

FirstElement Fuel is also deploying its first-of-its-kind high capacity mobile refueler.
hydrogen news ebookIn addition to leveraging its True Zero network of H2 refueling stations to provide fuel to three XCIENT Fuel Cell prototypes at full 700 bar pressure, fills were conducted on FirstElement Fuel's innovative mobile refueler and existing retail infrastructure to support Hyundai's pilot program.

The mobile refueler was developed in collaboration between FirstElement Fuel, Nikkiso, and Taylor-Wharton. It is capable of high-capacity fueling at 128 kg per hour and, beyond Hyundai Motor's pilot project, the mobile refueler is also being utilized to support pilot programs for various other Heavy Duty FCEV OEMs.

One just suspects the new 650 million dollar engine plant GM is building is going to be for Hydrogen engines

Legislation introduced to develop hydrogen fuel station infrastructure
Legislation introduced to develop hydrogen fuel station infrastructure

March 21, 2023 1 By TAMI HOOD
Bill supporting the expansion of the H2 fueling network have been reintroduced.
The Hydrogen for Trucks Act is one of four bills in a newly introduced legislation package and would support the demonstration of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and the development of an H2 fueling station network.

The bipartisan Hydrogen Infrastructure Initiative bill was reintroduced by 2 Senators earlier this month.

The four-bill Hydrogen Infrastructure Initiative package is in support of the adoption of hydrogen fuel as a clean energy source for powering energy-intensive sectors.

It was reintroduced by Senators Chris Coons (D-Delaware) and John Cornyn (R-Texas). Cosponsors of the bill included Senators Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), Bill Cassidy (R-Louisiana), Ben Ray Luján (D-New Mexico), John Hickenlooper (D-Colorado), and Martin Heinrich (D-New Mexico).

The proposed legislation is meant to offer targeted support for using H2 for high-value end-use applications. It will also support refueling infrastructure construction, including transportation, storage and delivery. It is meant to provide support in particular to energy-intensive sectors that are challenging to decarbonize, but where hydrogen fuel could be particularly appropriate as a clean energy alternative.

Hydrogen fuel has considerable potential in trucking, maritime, and heavy industry, among others.
The legislative package is meant to give priority to areas where the result will be the maximum emissions reductions. The point is to bring on the largest possible environmental benefits.
The strategy could reduce the initial cost barriers that stand in the way of those that would otherwise be willing to adopt it. According to the Senators, the package enables partnerships and packages that will help the US to take important steps forward toward meeting the requirements of a strong H2 .

The Hydrogen for Trucks Act is, as the name suggests, aimed specifically at the trucking industry. It would support the demonstration of hydrogen fuel cell heavy duty vehicles and of H2 refueling stations. At the same time, it would collect useful data to help direct future H2 trucking infrastructure investments.

Cost barriers for fleet operators would be reduced, clearing the path for early adopters to include fuel cell vehicles in their operations. Data and benchmarks would also become readily available, said the senators, providing an incentive for private investment and boosting demonstration and deployment.

Is Tesla's charging station model the key to success with hydrogen trucks?
March 30, 2023 2 By JULIE CAMPBELL

Experts and vehicle manufacturers are considering the advantage of building their own stations.
Nikola Motors has been moving forward aggressively in its efforts to build out an H2 refueling station network that will serve its hydrogen trucks. Recently, Hydrogen Fuel News reported on this strategy for boosting vehicle sales by making sure that companies using them in their fleets would have somewhere to refuel along their routes.

Experts are now wondering if this strategy is the key to ensuring fuel cell vehicle deployment.
hydrogen news ebookNikola has already announced the fourth H2 refueling station in California, with a goal of opening 60 of its HYLA stations by the close of 2026. All things remaining equal, this would more than double the number of H2 stations in the United States, since that number is currently 55, according to the Department of Energy. Every one of those stations is in California.

According to the hydrogen truck maker, its stations will not only be available to drivers of the Nikola Tre fuel cell vehicle, but drivers of H2 trucks from other manufacturers will also be able to refuel there.

I read today where they are going to make Hydrogen from sea water to bring the cost down

Dang this thread has been extremally long lasting!!!

I sort of attribute it to everyone wanting to think that suck, squeeze, inject fuel, burn/bang and exhaust is the only true way to motive power.

I was racking my brain on how to communicate this given that I have owned a Tesla for about nine years. I also own an airplane in which I typically run a 200HP engine at at least 70% power when I am really going somewhere (like 1/3 of the way across the country). Though in truth haven done much of that in last decade and know that based on physic's is no way I can get an electric airplane to accomplish the same missions.

Anyway I asked ChatGPT 4.0 which is publicly available artificial intelligence  a few leading questions on this subject.

Here's the result of a simple three minute conversation:

Quote from: freds
Why do people think that hydrogen will be the only true way to motive power for large vehicles than electric battery power vehicles.

There are several reasons why some people believe that hydrogen fuel cells will be the dominant technology for large vehicles rather than battery electric vehicles (BEVs). It's important to note that this is an ongoing debate, and there is no clear consensus on the ideal solution yet. However, here are some arguments in favor of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs) for large vehicles:

Energy density: Hydrogen has a higher energy density by weight compared to batteries. This means that for a given weight of fuel, hydrogen can store more energy than a battery can. This is especially important for large vehicles such as trucks, buses, and ships, where adding more batteries would significantly increase the weight and reduce the payload capacity.

Refueling time: Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles can be refueled much faster than battery electric vehicles. While it takes hours to recharge a large battery pack, a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle can be refueled in just a few minutes. This makes hydrogen more attractive for long-haul transport and other applications where minimizing downtime is critical.

Range: Due to its high energy density and faster refueling time, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles typically have a longer range than battery electric vehicles. This is particularly important for large vehicles that travel long distances and need to minimize the number of stops.

Scalability: Hydrogen fuel cell technology may be more suitable for large vehicles that require high power outputs. Batteries can become very large and heavy when scaled up for high power demands, while fuel cells can be more easily scaled to meet these requirements.

Environmental impact: While the production of hydrogen can still be carbon-intensive, it has the potential to be produced from renewable energy sources, such as wind or solar power, through electrolysis. This makes hydrogen an attractive option for reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the transportation sector.

However, it's essential to consider the challenges associated with hydrogen fuel cell technology, such as the high cost of fuel cells, limited hydrogen refueling infrastructure, and challenges in producing, storing, and transporting hydrogen. Battery technology is also improving rapidly, and advancements in energy density, charging speed, and cost may address some of the concerns related to large electric vehicles.

In summary, some people believe that hydrogen fuel cells will be the best solution for large vehicles due to their energy density, refueling time, range, scalability, and potential for low environmental impact. However, the debate is ongoing, and the future of motive power for large vehicles will likely involve a combination of hydrogen, battery electric, and other emerging technologies.

Quote from: freds
throw out hydrogen fuel cells and assume a diesel engine burning hydrogen

Using a diesel engine modified to burn hydrogen instead of diesel fuel presents an interesting alternative for large vehicles. Some advantages and disadvantages of this approach are:

Advantages:

Reduced emissions: Burning hydrogen in a diesel engine would produce water as the primary byproduct, resulting in zero greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. This is a significant advantage for addressing air pollution and climate change concerns.

Existing infrastructure: Diesel engines are widely used in large vehicles such as trucks, buses, and ships, and there is extensive experience and infrastructure for maintaining and repairing these engines. Modifying them to run on hydrogen could leverage the existing knowledge base and infrastructure.

Quick refueling: Like hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen combustion engines could be refueled relatively quickly, reducing downtime compared to recharging electric vehicles.

Energy density: Hydrogen has a high energy density by weight, which could translate to longer ranges for hydrogen-powered vehicles compared to battery electric vehicles, especially for large vehicles with high energy demands.

Disadvantages:

Efficiency: Diesel engines that burn hydrogen are generally less efficient than fuel cells in converting hydrogen's energy into useful work. This means that more hydrogen would be required to travel the same distance, potentially making it more expensive to operate compared to fuel cells or electric vehicles.

Hydrogen storage: Storing hydrogen is still a challenge, as it requires high pressures, cryogenic temperatures, or chemical storage methods. This adds complexity, weight, and cost to the vehicle.

Infrastructure: Although the diesel engine infrastructure exists, the hydrogen distribution and refueling infrastructure are still limited. Significant investments would be needed to create a widespread network of hydrogen refueling stations.

Production and distribution: As with hydrogen fuel cells, producing, storing, and distributing hydrogen at scale remains challenging. While hydrogen can be produced from renewable sources through electrolysis, most hydrogen is currently produced from natural gas, which is not carbon-neutral.

In summary, using a diesel engine modified to burn hydrogen could offer some advantages, including reduced emissions and leveraging existing infrastructure. However, challenges related to efficiency, hydrogen storage, and production and distribution infrastructure still need to be addressed. It's likely that a combination of technologies, including hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen combustion engines, and battery electric vehicles, will be employed to meet the diverse needs of large vehicles.

Quote from: freds
remove all reference to fuel cells just concentrate on engines that burn hydrogen and how available it is today? I.E. If you had such a vehicle next week where could you travel with it?

If you had a vehicle with an internal combustion engine modified to burn hydrogen next week, you would face some challenges related to the availability of hydrogen refueling infrastructure. While hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, its distribution and refueling infrastructure are still limited compared to traditional gasoline and diesel fuel.

The availability of hydrogen refueling stations varies greatly depending on your location. Some regions, like California in the United States, have made significant investments in hydrogen infrastructure, with around 50 public hydrogen stations. In Europe, Germany has been a leader in the deployment of hydrogen stations, with around 100 stations. Japan and South Korea also have a growing hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

However, these numbers are still small compared to the thousands of gasoline and diesel stations in these countries. In many other parts of the world, hydrogen refueling infrastructure is almost non-existent or very limited.

If you had a hydrogen-burning vehicle next week, your ability to travel with it would depend on the availability of hydrogen refueling stations along your route. In regions with a growing hydrogen infrastructure, like California or Germany, you might be able to travel relatively easily between major cities, as long as you plan your trip around the locations of hydrogen refueling stations. However, in areas with limited or no hydrogen refueling infrastructure, you would face significant challenges in refueling your vehicle.

In summary, the current availability of hydrogen for vehicles with internal combustion engines that burn hydrogen is limited and region-dependent. If you had such a vehicle next week, your ability to travel would depend on the hydrogen refueling infrastructure in your area and along your planned route. As hydrogen infrastructure continues to expand, the practicality of hydrogen-burning vehicles will increase, but for now, it remains a challenge.

Quote from: freds
Given that hydrogen has to manufactured, stored and transported could it be more economical then diesel in the next decade?

Hydrogen has the potential to become more economical than diesel in the next decade, but it depends on several factors. Some of these factors include advancements in hydrogen production, storage, and distribution technologies, as well as the growth of renewable energy sources, government policies, and the overall progress in building the hydrogen economy.

Production: Currently, most hydrogen is produced through steam methane reforming (SMR) using natural gas, which is not carbon-neutral. However, hydrogen can also be produced from water through electrolysis, powered by renewable energy sources like solar or wind. If the cost of renewable energy continues to decline and electrolysis technology becomes more efficient, it could make hydrogen production more economical and sustainable compared to diesel.

Storage and transportation: Hydrogen storage and transportation are currently challenging and expensive due to its low energy density by volume, necessitating high-pressure or cryogenic storage. However, research is ongoing in areas such as metal hydrides, ammonia, and other hydrogen carriers that could reduce the costs and challenges associated with hydrogen storage and transportation. If breakthroughs are achieved in these areas, hydrogen could become more competitive with diesel.

Infrastructure: Building a hydrogen refueling infrastructure is capital-intensive and will require significant investments. As the hydrogen refueling network expands, economies of scale could help reduce the cost of hydrogen distribution and make it more competitive with diesel.

Government policies and incentives: Government policies, regulations, and incentives play a crucial role in the adoption of alternative fuels. If governments implement strong policies to encourage the development of hydrogen infrastructure, production, and vehicle adoption, it could help make hydrogen more economical compared to diesel.

Diesel prices: The price of diesel is influenced by global oil prices, which can be volatile. If oil prices rise significantly in the next decade, hydrogen could become more competitive with diesel from an economic standpoint.

In summary, while there are still challenges to overcome, hydrogen has the potential to become more economical than diesel in the next decade if advancements in production, storage, transportation, and infrastructure occur alongside supportive government policies and favorable market conditions. However, predicting the exact timeline for when hydrogen becomes more economical than diesel remains uncertain.

=====================================================================

Ok how many P's in "fat chance?"

I talked a friend out of buy a hydrogen powered fuel cell car and into a Tesla with the following two questions.

How many places can you refuel you car? Answer fifty in the entire United States (most in California) who if you drove into refueling station can only refuel fifty cars before the station is empty.

You live in Seattle and you want to take it to LA, how would you do that? Load it on the back of trailer or truck and haul it there...

PS. A Tesla Semi has three motors with mostly one motor used. The main purpose of the other two motors is as generators to harvest more energy for reuse as they slow down (idiot's cutting in front of them) then climbing hills.

My broker told me Hydrogen is going to be big in the stock market in the near future,Today was a good day in the oil trading  so I am going hang with it for a while longer

Read yesterday that Ford is making some top tier engines that will run on Hydrogen and getting away from EV's. Newsome in Cali says they will go to a lot of Hydrogen tech also and cut out Diesel engine truck sales by 2035. Good luck with that Gav.

@freds

QuoteOk how many P's in "fat chance?"

I talked a friend out of buy a hydrogen powered fuel cell car and into a Tesla with the following two questions.

How many places can you refuel you car? Answer fifty in the entire United States (most in California) who if you drove into refueling station can only refuel fifty cars before the station is empty.

You live in Seattle and you want to take it to LA, how would you do that? Load it on the back of trailer or truck and haul it there...

PS. A Tesla Semi has three motors with mostly one motor used. The main purpose of the other two motors is as generators to harvest more energy for reuse as they slow down (idiot's cutting in front of them) then climbing hills.

Not sure if you slyly meant to vector the thread toward AI but if half the reply from Chat GPT makes sense that is the real story of interest. Who cares about hydrogen when Chat-GPT5 will find a developable fusion solution. Once energy is unlimited, a new world opens up.
I won't steer this thread OT but humans and sovereign entities need to get up to speed with the advancements in AI. It will be the next paradigm and revolutionary tech advancment that can alter mankind on Earth. Watch some discussions and demos on youtube.

Wonder if AI will have problems determining what sex it is or it  wants to be. :( 

I never thought I would ever to have to answer statements posed by a computer.
As some of you have read here, there are multiple hydrogen carrying processes that I have brought with these replys, most being oriented to our bus world engine changes.
Even to this day few electric vehicles can drive in the winter or summer from LA to LV without stopping in Barstow for an extended charge. As witnessed by a man that has a diesel generator on the back of his diesel pickup that has multiple connectors to fit multiple brand EVs, that have misjudged distances driving their EVs.
My effort here is to give an idea to our community, there is a way to save our bus conversions to give to the next generation of our community. Either hydrogen combustion or hydrogen electric.
   My CNG pickups I had during one of the gas crisis, when I was commuting to LA to work, allowed me to continue to work, while people in SoCal coundnt get gas to drive from a valley away.
  Then T Boone Pickens started up Clean Energy fuel stations. Their buildup took awhile but soon you could travel with your CNG pickup throughout the south west. The EV stations are popping up all over with a concerted effort just as happened with CNG. It will take awhile to build up hydrogen fueling stations, just as it will take some time to cycle thru all the new 18 wheelers that are bringing us our goods right now.

Musk is spending a lot of money on charging stations they popping up all over Needles Ca,I noticed one of the pot shops there installing some. We don't have any on the AZ side of the river. Speaking with a old friend from Walmart they declined Musk offer for stations at all Walmart's. Hydrogen is in our future too much money behind the Hydrogen concept, once they get the process cheaper and not needing fossil fuels to make it. The moisture that the Hydrogen engines produces I seen is going to need to be addressed they are going to have a rust problem.  EV trucks are not going to be a player in transportation of goods  across the US, some states are upping the weight limit for trucks to 88,000 lbs incase in does though. The battery bank must be a heavy sucker, Tesla has a recall on the 35 EV trucks and they haven't been delivered yet   

Quote from: Dave5Cs on March 31, 2023, 06:24:22 PM
Read yesterday that Ford is making some top tier engines that will run on Hydrogen and getting away from EV's. Newsome in Cali says they will go to a lot of Hydrogen tech also and cut out Diesel engine truck sales by 2035. Good luck with that Gav.

That Idiot Governor working with the Idiot in the Whitehouse is trying to kill the Diesel Motor in California. Betcha it gets tougher on the 2 Stroke Guys regardless what they say about about letting you drive um (RV/Buses) on their roads

Quote from: muldoonman on April 01, 2023, 06:27:17 AM
That Idiot Governor working with the Idiot in the Whitehouse is trying to kill the Diesel Motor in California. Betcha it gets tougher on the 2 Stroke Guys regardless what they say about about letting you drive um (RV/Buses) on their roads

At 1 time Newsom said all vehicles will be EV's in California,lol they are so broke now he couldn't inforce it.They were paying Freight line like Swift to buy CNG trucks for use on the docks ,no diesel trucks was allowed
 

Quote from: luvrbus on April 01, 2023, 07:59:43 AM


At 1 time Newsom said all vehicles will be EV's in California,lol they are so broke now he couldn't inforce it.They were paying Freight line like Swift to buy CNG trucks for use on the docks ,no diesel trucks was allowed

Yeah Cliff, You can't fix Stupid. ;D

😫

Hydrogen makes more sense than EV's,My friend in Scottsdale just done a 4500 mile trip in his Tesla, and said never again that it added about 8 hours to their trip and the saving in fuel over his Escalade wasn't worth the hassle.Then a tow in Neveda really has him going

I'm no Cali fanboy but if you realistically look at history, the saying "As California goes, so goes the country". California often paves the way, right or wrong. There are a lot of statements made here based on personal feelings and that is the American way, feel and say what you want. But that does not mean it is accurate or false, it is your personal opinion.
The wild card is again the advancement in AI and the effective guidance and constraints placed on the technology. At the exponential rate of advancement, AI can solve fusion far quicker than humans. Let's say inside five years AI develops a workable fusion reactor. What this means is electricity is unlimited. This will alter the face of the planet and business and everything affecting our daily lives. I present this as it is coming so fast, I'm not sure how many folks are getting educated about the amount of change that is around the corner.

Here in the valley it is easy to spot a person that has moved from California to here,1st thing is they are they walking around with a new pistol and holster on their hip. AI I could care less about it.All the technology we have today and we still have the most expensive and worst health care in the world,how about AI working to solve that problem

Quote from: Van on April 01, 2023, 10:58:41 AM
😫

I hate to sound stupid but have to ask what this decal means? The background being the state of NC also throws me so please explain to a lame brain... TIA

Quote from: dtcerrato on April 01, 2023, 05:53:32 PM
I hate to sound stupid but have to ask what this decal means? The background being the state of NC also throws me so please explain to a lame brain... TIA

Dan,it is a dig at the EPA all the newer trucks with 4 stoke engines if you look on the cab have a decal that states "certified clean idle " the 2 stroke owners use that decal all  in fun since their engines will not pass the test.The way I read in some states like CA,AZ and Nev out here you can only idle for 2 minutes without the dumb decal of face hefty fines, I am sure since it is the EPA bs it is in every state 

Quote from: luvrbus on April 02, 2023, 06:49:40 AM


Dan,it is a dig at the EPA all the newer trucks with 4 stoke engines if you look on the cab have a decal that states "certified clean idle " the 2 stroke owners use that decal all  in fun since their engines will not pass the test.The way I read in some states like CA,AZ and Nev out here you can only idle for 2 minutes without the dumb decal of face hefty fines, I am sure since it is the EPA bs it is in every state

Thanks for the explanation. I jumped on ebay this morning and seen they're 4 sale for any state. I wouldn't own one. Don't need anymore attention than it already gets. I was green (engine color only) on that one! Lol

Quote from: luvrbus on April 02, 2023, 06:49:40 AM


Dan,it is a dig at the EPA all the newer trucks with 4 stoke engines if you look on the cab have a decal that states "certified clean idle " the 2 stroke owners use that decal all  in fun since their engines will not pass the test.The way I read in some states like CA,AZ and Nev out here you can only idle for 2 minutes without the dumb decal of face hefty fines, I am sure since it is the EPA bs it is in every state

Ok I'll go with that but to be completly honest I can't quite remember why I posted it lol!

Quote from: dtcerrato on April 01, 2023, 05:53:32 PM
I hate to sound stupid but have to ask what this decal means? The background being the state of NC also throws me so please explain to a lame brain... TIA

Not at all Dan, a reasonable request. I really don't know but after all the adult beverages I consumed at LVMCI's birthday bash I am convinced it was an intoxicated attempt to be deragatory and distorting lol!
So much for being the master of brevity as I was once labeled years ago ;D
I do vaguely remember Cheryl (bless her heart) smacking me saying 'step away from the keyboard" lol! So I hope this explains it lol!  Gotta go wifey is coming back now!

Old, fat and hung over.😁

More like a Democrat fan boy.

https://fuelcellsworks.com/
also
Cummins Newsroom: People and Places
CUMMINS ANNOUNCES INVESTMENTS OF MORE THAN $1 BILLION ACROSS U.S. MANUFACTURING NETWORK
Apr 03, 2023 Columbus, Ind.
  Cummins Inc. (NYSE: CMI) in Fridley, Minnesota
"...I am delighted that we will have the chance to show President Biden the innovative work we are doing at our Fridley plant and our incredible Cummins employees who are doing it," said Jennifer Rumsey, Cummins President and CEO. "In just a few weeks, we will begin manufacturing one of the key pieces of technology for green hydrogen production that will help decarbonize our economy and drive the clean energy transition – the electrolyzer. Support from the Biden Administration and Congress with legislation like the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and Inflation Reduction Act are driving the clean energy economy forward in the United States and critical to our decarbonization efforts."

Coinciding with the visit, Cummins has announced that in addition to recent investments in Fridley, the company is investing more than $1 billion across its U.S. engine manufacturing network in Indiana, North Carolina and New York. The investment will provide upgrades to those facilities to support the industry's first fuel agnostic engine platforms that will run on low carbon fuels, including natural gas, diesel and eventually hydrogen, helping decarbonize the nation's truck fleets today.

"The historic investments included in those pieces of legislation played a key role in our decision to manufacture products here in the U.S., creating more clean-tech jobs and positively impacting our communities," Rumsey continued. "The electrolyzer production in Minnesota and investment in our Indiana, North Carolina and New York facilities are reflective of our dual path approach of advancing both engine-based and zero-emission solutions – an approach that is best for all of our stakeholders and our impact on the planet. We can't do this alone and are grateful for the continued partnership and collaboration with congressional leaders and the Biden Administration." ...

US News and World Report

While the world waits for the Tesla Semi truck to become widely available, Nikola says it's winning the delivery race. "The Tre BEV 6×2 packs up to 733 kWh of energy into a compact 186-inch wheelbase, providing up to 330 miles of range without sacrificing maneuverability in even the most difficult of spaces — all at lower operating costs than conventional diesel," the company said.

Electrifying the heavy truck segment is notoriously difficult, because long-distance semis traditionally cover huge mileage on each run – and range is the Achilles Heel of the EV. That problem is slowly disappearing as battery technology gets better, but diesel trucks typically can cover 2,000 miles between refills. And that's why Nikola has also developed a 536-horsepower fuel-cell truck running on hydrogen – with a 500-mile range...
Nikola...now under a new CEO, Michael Lohscheller, and has delivered 258 of its battery-powered semi-trucks. Tesla, by contrast, delivered 36 of its 500-mile Semis to PepsiCo – which in 2017 placed a 100-vehicle order—in February. The soda company is hoping to get the rest of them this year.

Nikola isn't going it alone. The 13-foot-tall short-haul/regional BEV Semi is based on an Iveco cab-over chassis. To this, Nikola adds a huge 733-kilowatt-hour battery pack, which it parks between the frame rails. The twin motors offer 645 horsepower and 1,327 pound-feet of torque. Charging is still going to take a while – on 350-kW DC, it can reach 80% full in an hour and a half. The company's website says the truck can be refueled in 20 minutes or less, but a footnote says, "Estimate based on expected technology improvements." The company announced a fleet partnership with leading player ChargePoint in late 2022.

The U.S. versions of the BEV are for day use, but models that including sleeping quarters are planned for Europe. There is a big 17-inch touch screen angled toward the driver, and steering wheel controls via the Stellantis LX platform. Visibility is said to be very good, and operation is exceptionally quiet.
Production of the BEV Semi began in March, but the longer-range hydrogen truck will take a little longer. Spokeswoman Colleen Robar told U.S. News that the company plans to build 10 of the fuel-cell trucks by the second quarter of this year, and announce "at least two refueling station partners by June." Lack of infrastructure outside southern California is a big problem for fuel-cell power, and Nikola is hoping to have 60 hydrogen stations in place by 2026.

Nikola has also applied for a Department of Energy loan of up to $1.3 billion for a hydrogen production facility in Phoenix that could produce as much as 150 metric tons of hydrogen daily.

Robar said Nikola plans to deliver up to 350 Tre BEVs to dealers in calendar 2023, and 125 to 150 Tre fuel-cell trucks in the fourth quarter of this year. She said that Tre BEV pricing "varies for each customer," and that there are financial incentives available in California and New York.
Tesla and Nikola are far from the only players in this space. Also delivering electric semis are Freightliner (the eCascadia, 250 miles of range); Volvo (VNR Electric, 275 miles); Kenworth (T680E, 150 miles); Peterbilt (579EV, 150 miles); and Chinese company BYD (8TT, 167 miles). Daimler Truck North America said it delivered the first of the Freightliner eCascadias to Penske Truck Leasing late last year...

EV trucks have a long way to go,you can see it if they could go 500 miles or the daily limit on drivers time and charge overnight.a driver is not going to wait 40 to 60 hours for full charge to run 300 miles he cannot afford the down time. Shipping in a EV truck would be like pony express 

They could place the battery trailers every so often then when getting low they just pull in and exchange the full battery trailer they now have and off they go again.

The unanswered question here gents is how does the transportation of goods via semis change when driverless trucks become everyday? It seems the entire rules change.
There are no driver clocks, so many hours per day; robot trucks can go 24/7.The cost to stop to recharge or swap battery pack will be minimal due to automation, no unproductive driver wages fueling up.
Higher utilization of the trucks will allow greater efficiency and profits.

Certainly, there will be capital costs to transition over to EV trucks and recharging stations but it is coming, the bean counters and the progressive politics will determine the path and pace of the switchover.

I shot a world wide internet show for Daimler Benz,  announcement of the first driverless truck at the Hoover Dam, given the 1st license by the State of Nevada. The Interior department wouldn't allow the truck to drive on the Dam without a drive behind the wheel...

Quote from: lvmci on April 06, 2023, 08:41:02 PM
I shot a world wide internet show for Daimler Benz,  announcement of the first driverless truck at the Hoover Dam, given the 1st license by the State of Nevada. The Interior department wouldn't allow the truck to drive on the Dam without a drive behind the wheel...

I'm not sure what you are communicating. Surely, it is factual that all the autonomous tech rolling out will be phased in and just like Tesla FSD beta it requires driver attention today. At the pace of technical advancement, these kinds of extra safety precautions will fade away.
For those not staying on top of the fast moving auto drive scene, it is a reality today. Waymo offers driverless rides in Phoenix https://waymo.com/phx/. This is just one example where the tech is in daily service. It's just time and not that long, before tractor trailers will self drive too.

Quote from: windtrader on April 06, 2023, 10:24:43 PM
I'm not sure what you are communicating. Surely, it is factual that all the autonomous tech rolling out will be phased in and just like Tesla FSD beta it requires driver attention today. At the pace of technical advancement, these kinds of extra safety precautions will fade away.
For those not staying on top of the fast moving auto drive scene, it is a reality today. Waymo offers driverless rides in Phoenix https://waymo.com/phx/. This is just one example where the tech is in daily service. It's just time and not that long, before tractor trailers will self drive too.

Neat but where is the Phoenix traffic ?,they are going to need to get the weight down on the EV trucks as of now they are 8 to 10,000 lbs heavier than a conventional  equipped truck,truckers are not going to like giving up 4 to 5 tons of paying freight to go green

No problem. They can just backcharge the shippers. I'm SUURE it'll never affect any of us...

Jim

Quotetruckers are not going to like giving up 4 to 5 tons of paying freight to go green

This about money, not trucker jobs. From a capital investement standpoint robot trucks benefit from higher utilization and lower operating costs. If an robot truck needs to run to cover the lowered freight weight, it seems they are still money ahead. I'd bet the lowered operating costs and better ROI on EV trucks wins out. EV truck prices will also drop over time. Look at the significant lowered prices on Tesla. Plust the $25k model is just around the corner.

I think we will see EV trucks in local deliveries. It will be a long time before we see driverless EV trucks on long freight runs,LOL that would be dangerous driverless EV trucks and Swift drivers on the same interstate.

Trucking capital utilization is seriously limited by hours of service regulations. Remove the human, and the autonomous truck utilization more than doubles.

Round down to 2:1 and the math is easy, and so is the hunger to accomplish it.

Your Walmart toaster's transportation  costs are going down even further...

Advance the tech, further job losses,  more McJobs workers, advance the reliance and demand on cheaper foreign goods, slip beneath the waves...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

I have been in Walmart and Amazon distributions centers several times over the years the technology is amazing it can pull the orders print the shippng lables put the orders on a belt lol then humans package the shipments and tape the boxes and off it goes again

Word to the wise, avoid driving within the reach of autonomous vehicles like the plague. Not only will there be unexpected problems with them, some of which will cause fatalities but with corporations involved you can be certain they will not prioritize your safety until they are forced to do so. Even then it will be a cost/benefit evaluation that you have a strong chance of coming out on the wrong end of if a choice has to be made. Add to this the ease with which AI can be confused about identifying humans and other similar issues and it's easy to read between the lines and see that this technology is being pushed out way ahead of the development curve. This means people will die so try to make sure it isn't you. Humans make mistakes but they are exceptional at identifying other humans. AI? Not so much but really good at making lots of mistakes at blinding speed. The technology really isn't ready yet. Too many problem areas have been identified and proven difficult to solve. The front runners are banking on getting out ahead in the marketplace and then paying off the cost of failures with settlements. Sort of like Ford's business plan with the Pinto gas tanks if you remember those. Best to keep your distance until those get sorted out and let some other sucker pay for the failures.

Jim

I read where 70% of the trucks on the road today are owner operated.Those guys are not going to jump on the EV driverless trucks,Can you visualize a DOT officer at a weight scale red tagging a EV driverless truck telling it where to park, some of those don't have a sense of humor.

@jim - not sure where you live but where I am, the roads are truely lawless. Nobody stops for signs and red light running is common as well as three lane changes, text typing and tik-tok videos have drivers needing a honk to get off the line. Again out here, FSD has idiots beat anyday. Musk has stated the need to only release FSD once it is clearly superior to human driving but is is already in limited commercial service so it won't be long more more beta rollouts

With all the trucks going off the road with ice and black ice around Flagstaff, AZ, if drivers can't see the difference how can Ai?

Quote from: lvmci on April 09, 2023, 09:04:20 AM
With all the trucks going off the road with ice and black ice around Flagstaff, AZ, if drivers can't see the difference how can Ai?

Good question. I dunno. It's all way over my head. Here is a video showing some of the processing going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRnSmw1i_DQThere are far better ones that show the amount of detail that is being captured.

I'd think autopilot would be smart enough to know it is not safe to drive and pull over and wait for better conditions. When you see the idiots flying down the unsafe roads, it's a safe bet the machine has enough smarts to get off the road.

And there is no argument, autopilot is real and getting better, it is only a question about time before rollout bigtime

Driver's aren't paying attention...

I would expect a collection of road/weather sensors in the automated truck, a simple brake application to a single wheel, with the already well established ABS sensor will tell it all it needs to know.

The roads supervisor trucks up here have had them for years, for making brine or salting decisions.

It's all science now, and pretty simple.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Lvmci has a clue. Much more to go with it. I'm no expert on this stuff but my son who is a software professional studies it. Apparently things like a color change or small shape change is enough to confuse AI about identification, and if it has trouble telling a garbage can from a person it might decide the liability from hitting the item is less than the damage caused by bouncing off an errant idiot in a car. You can see where this could be a problem, and that's only a half assed example that I came up with off the cuff. In the real world, which contains the aforementioned idiots you can multiply that exponentially. What I've heard is that we're maybe 10 years away from them being good enough for prime time.

Now, if you kept all the idiots off the road they would probably be fine, until something happened that they are not programmed to deal with. But you can also guarantee that is not going to happen. The issue is not that the AI can't drive the truck. The issue is that it is nowhere near being as good at dealing with unexpected occurrences as a human operator, even one with diminished capacity. Nowhere near as good at object identification. And there are other categories of issues as well that I don't even know about, but having worked in electronics I do at least know better than to just mindlessly trust them.

Jim

Conversions from diesel to hydrogen trucks are drawing interest
April 8, 2023 0 By JOHN MAX Hydrogen Fuel News

• Retrofitting existing vehicles to run on H2 allows fleet owners to reduce emissions and maintain current assets, saving money and reducing waste.
• Researchers from the University of New South Wales have developed a system that converts up to 90% of diesel operations, with an efficiency boost of 26%.
• This system does not require high-purity hydrogen fuel, as it uses a stratification technique to form pockets of higher and lower H2 concentrations, reducing nitrous oxide emissions.

Retrofitting systems allow vehicles and fleet owners to run existing engines on H2.

As good as it might sound to replace an entire fleet of diesel vehicles with hydrogen trucks in order to dramatically reduce a carbon footprint, most companies simply wouldn't be able to afford that kind of investment all at once. This is particularly true when they already have vehicles that are still running just fine.

Conversions allow existing vehicles to run mainly on H2 instead of polluting diesel fuel.

That said, just because a company isn't ready to replace its entire fleet, it doesn't mean that hydrogen trucks are out of the question.  Existing large fleets can continue to be used – not only saving money, but also reducing unnecessary waste – while drastically shrinking their greenhouse gas emissions by using conversions from diesel to H2.

In this way, companies can hold onto their existing assets and still decarbonize in order to join the fight against the climate crisis and keep compliant with newly adopted emissions regulations as they happen.

Researchers have been developing several types of retrofit systems for converting diesel to hydrogen trucks.

For instance, researchers from the University of New South Wales (UNSW) have prototyped and tested a retrofit system capable of converting diesel engines to run on 90 percent H2. This greatly reduces both the carbon dioxide and the nitrous oxide emissions from the vehicle's operations while simultaneously providing a 26 percent efficiency boost.

This conversion does mean that the vehicle will need to continue to use diesel fuel for 10 percent of its operation. Therefore, it isn't a fully green conversion.  Still, what it provides is a way for businesses to slash the majority of their greenhouse gas emissions without trashing assets that can still remain useful for a long time. In this sense, the reduced waste offsets a considerable amount of the remaining emissions from the vehicle's operations.

No Fuel Cells Needed

This system, like most retrofits converting diesel to hydrogen trucks and cars, does not involve the use of fuel cells, but is instead adds H2 injection directly into the cylinder. It also adds independent injection timing control for both the H2 and diesel systems. In the case of the system developed by the UNSW team, it also doesn't require the hydrogen fuel to be high purity due to a stratification technique that forms pockets of higher and lower concentrations of H2. In this way, the nitrous oxide emissions are substantially reduced when compared to the operation of a diesel vehicle...

Give 'em another decade or two and they are as likely as not to decide that the planet is cooling off and we need to switch back to carbon based fuels to improve heat retention in the atmosphere. Of course this will be a major crisis aimed at warding off the next ice age, which we seem to be overdue for.

Politics as usual...

Jim

@jim - With all due respect, FSD is not ten years away. It is here today, running commercial service in some cities. At the pace of advancements, it's more like a year or two at most away before blowing up.
https://waymo.com/faq/ (https://waymo.com/faq/)

QuoteWaymo One is our public, fully autonomous ride-hailing service. Riders can use the Waymo One app to hail one of our autonomously driven vehicles (with no human driver in the front seat!) 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Our Waymo One ride-hailing service operates in Metro Phoenix, San Francisco, and is ramping up in Los Angeles County. We look forward to expanding further. Our Metro Phoenix territory currently includes Downtown Phoenix and parts of Chandler, Tempe, Mesa and Gilbert.
Riders in San Francisco can ride throughout the city, and we look forward to sharing our Los Angeles territory!
For more information, visit waymo.com/whereyoucango.

Quote from: windtrader on April 09, 2023, 03:30:44 PM
@jim - With all due respect, FSD is not ten years away. It is here today, running commercial service in some cities. At the pace of advancements, it's more like a year or two at most away before blowing up.
https://waymo.com/faq/ (https://waymo.com/faq/)

Don, Waymo is mostly for entertainment in the East Valley you cannot get in one and say take me to Phoenix Sky Harbor  from Mesa, their routes are very limited and not very long,In Gilbert it runs restaurant row they call it. Waymo has no service  except the East Valley they don't have anything in Scottsdale and Phoenix in the north valley and nothing in the west or south valley.I woudn't call it a cab company,they been involved in a few accidents and were shut down for a couple of weeks,you won't see a Waymo except in a very low traffic area.I rode a Waymo to the parking lot at Sky Harbor from the terminal 

Quote from: luvrbus on April 09, 2023, 05:04:12 PM


Don, Waymo is mostly for entertainment in the East Valley you cannot get in one and say take me to Phoenix Sky Harbor  from Mesa, their routes are very limited and not very long,In Gilbert it runs restaurant row they call it. Waymo has no service  except the East Valley they don't have anything in Scottsdale and Phoenix in the north valley and nothing in the west or south valley.I woudn't call it a cab company,they been involved in a few accidents and were shut down for a couple of weeks,you won't see a Waymo except in a very low traffic area.I rode a Waymo to the parking lot at Sky Harbor from the terminal

Cliff - Understand it is a restricted and controlled rollout but on public roads. There are plenty running around in confined settings like business parks. The point I keep trying to get across is autopilot is in actual use, period. It is early stage and will grow in capability and get more experiences. To deny auto drive or large scale EV rollout is just not being sufficiently informed on where things are and heading. Waymo is just one of dozens charging hard on getting this proven and rolled out.

One good thing is Waymo doesn't expect a $20.00 tip ,my son didn't want to fight the traffic on a Friday at Sky Harbor and sent Waymo to pick me up it was a experience 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it isn't ready for prime time, large scale use and still has major problems that will prove difficult to resolve in an acceptable manner. Limited, restricted use in small vehicles where the liabilities are largely ignored or transferred, speeds are slow, and damages can be contained is a very long way from high speed cross country trucking with full size and weight commercial rigs. At least with trains they were restricted to tracks and even there I believe in most cases an engineer is still required on cross country runs. The tonnage is an issue that greatly amplifies the potential for destruction, mayhem, and  therefore liability.

On a more personal note, I don't want to be anywhere near one when it screws up.

Jim

 HYDROGEN NEWS ARTICLE
April 8, 2023 1 By JOHN MAX
• Retrofitting existing vehicles to run on H2 allows fleet owners to reduce emissions and maintain current assets, saving money and reducing waste.
• Researchers from the University of New South Wales have developed a system that converts up to 90% of diesel operations, with an efficiency boost of 26%.
• This system does not require high-purity hydrogen fuel, as it uses a stratification technique to form pockets of higher and lower H2 concentrations, reducing nitrous oxide emissions.

As good as it might sound to replace an entire fleet of diesel vehicles with hydrogen trucks in order to dramatically reduce a carbon footprint, most companies simply wouldn't be able to afford that kind of investment all at once. This is particularly true when they already have vehicles that are still running just fine.

Conversions allow existing vehicles to run mainly on H2 instead of polluting diesel fuel.

That said, just because a company isn't ready to replace its entire fleet, it doesn't mean that hydrogen trucks are out of the question.  Existing large fleets can continue to be used – not only saving money, but also reducing unnecessary waste – while drastically shrinking their greenhouse gas emissions by using conversions from diesel to H2.

In this way, companies can hold onto their existing assets and still decarbonize in order to join the fight against the climate crisis and keep compliant with newly adopted emissions regulations as they happen.

Researchers have been developing several types of retrofit systems for converting diesel to hydrogen trucks.


For instance, researchers from the University of New South Wales (UNSW) have prototyped and tested a retrofit system capable of converting diesel engines to run on 90 percent H2. This greatly reduces both the carbon dioxide and the nitrous oxide emissions from the vehicle's operations while simultaneously providing a 26 percent efficiency boost.hydrogen news ebook

This conversion does mean that the vehicle will need to continue to use diesel fuel for 10 percent of its operation. Therefore, it isn't a fully green conversion.  Still, what it provides is a way for businesses to slash the majority of their greenhouse gas emissions without trashing assets that can still remain useful for a long time. In this sense, the reduced waste offsets a considerable amount of the remaining emissions from the vehicle's operations.

No Fuel Cells Needed
This system, like most retrofits converting diesel to hydrogen trucks and cars, does not involve the use of fuel cells, but is instead adds H2 injection directly into the cylinder. It also adds independent injection timing control for both the H2 and diesel systems. In the case of the system developed by the UNSW team, it also doesn't require the hydrogen fuel to be high purity due to a stratification technique that forms pockets of higher and lower concentrations of H2. In this way, the nitrous oxide emissions are substantially reduced when compared to the operation of a diesel vehicle.

ENERGY
Nikola Corp. outlines plans for new hydrogen hub in (Pheonix) West Valley
Nikola Corp. is building a new hydrogen facility in the southern part of Buckeye.
Nikola Corp. is building a new hydrogen facility in the southern part of Buckeye. A rendering shows an example of a street view at the facility once built.

By Audrey Jensen
Reporter, Phoenix Business Journal
Apr 10, 2023

Nikola said its new hydrogen hub will help accelerate the development and deployment of clean, renewable infrastructure in Buckeye as well as the U.S. The Biden Administration has been working to expand clean energy in the country through new legislation and incentives.

Bosch build hydrogen powered vans

Back to powering large vehicles. Right in my backyard, Sacramento, Pepsi just received a fleet of Tesla semi trucks. One more step toward EV in buses and trucks. https://fox40.com/news/local-news/sacramento/tesla-semis-delivered-to-pepsico-facility-in-sacramento/ (https://fox40.com/news/local-news/sacramento/tesla-semis-delivered-to-pepsico-facility-in-sacramento/)

And sleepy joe is pushing harder to shift to EV.
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-admin-unveils-tough-emissions-095818742.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM4kAmQNl-EskTOSD-Fwm5EHmIBKE-Sjty0aQLnzdTcr0DF2VD2e2wkyKJBH4ne-8l3X59P-XZQcK6pv6nYloK7lwMuxRiQo1l99NdDO_mHutxOvd3SFyCD-kOfdhKPX0_q1R7aX__bOKc_47Yh3c7ZnWeO_I6vGRVvAFvQ7NLwt (https://news.yahoo.com/biden-admin-unveils-tough-emissions-095818742.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM4kAmQNl-EskTOSD-Fwm5EHmIBKE-Sjty0aQLnzdTcr0DF2VD2e2wkyKJBH4ne-8l3X59P-XZQcK6pv6nYloK7lwMuxRiQo1l99NdDO_mHutxOvd3SFyCD-kOfdhKPX0_q1R7aX__bOKc_47Yh3c7ZnWeO_I6vGRVvAFvQ7NLwt)

Don didn't the city pay for those trucks ? Pepsi in Phoenix was trying to get Phoenix to buy them 10,not enough Californians in Phoenix yet to swing the deal

Hi Clifford,
Looks like there were several pockets that got tapped to cover costs. Sacramento is an excellent location due to Tesla in Fremont, Giga in Nevada, and new facility in Lathrop (Sac. suburb)

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/tesla-delivers-fleet-of-semi-trucks-to-pepsi-facility-in-california


PepsiCo's initial purchase of Tesla Semi trucks (estimated at about $250,000 per vehicle) was largely paid for by state and federal grants.
"The Sacramento Metropolitan Air Quality Management District paid for 18 of the 21 trucks to be used at the South Sacramento bottling plant with $4.5 million in grants," said Alberto Ayala, the district's executive director, according to The Sacramento Bee (https://sports.yahoo.com/twenty-one-electric-tesla-semi-214953974.html).
PepsiCo received a total of $15 million in state and local grants for the vehicles and charging infrastructure in both Sacramento and Modesto, as well as another $40,000 per vehicle from the federal government.

 @ $250,000.00 a pop they are not going to compete with a decked out KW for a $150,000.00 that will run a million miles,going to be interesting to compare dollars to maintain the EV truck to the Diesel rigs

Bloomberg News

April 13, 2023 11:54 AM, EDT
Trucking's Electric Vs. Hydrogen Battle Starts to Percolate
Both Offer Pros and Cons in Race to Decarbonize, but Ultimately, Lowest Cost May Prevail
news: Get TTNews in your inbox.]

Purely battery-powered trucks have a head start on hydrogen fuel cells in the race to decarbonize trucks, but because of major drawbacks for both technologies, the competition is far from settled.

While hydrogen trucks offer long driving range and quick refueling, only a few very expensive models are on the market. Battery-electric rigs are relatively cheaper and more widely available, but operating them at scale will require massive investments in high-powered charging infrastructure.

Juicing up 1,100 trucks at the same time for 45 minutes would use the capacity of an entire nuclear power plant, according to Martin Lundstedt, the CEO of Swedish manufacturer Volvo.
But don't count out fuel cell trucks just yet.
Their drivetrains convert hydrogen into
electricity that then powers the motor,
emitting only water vapor. A fuel cell
powertrain weighs less, allowing the vehicles
to drive longer distances with greater loads
and shorter refueling stops
While Volvo has six battery-electric trucks on offer and sold more than 4.,300 of these vehicles since 2019, it's also pursuing fuel cells. The company last year started testing
hydrogen trucks with 621 miles of range that
can be refueled in 15 minutes. Daimler Truck
has done similar trials the last few years
'I'm confident that we'll see the technology
mature over this decade,' Lundstedt said.
"Many different players are beginning ta
realize that electrification and hydrogen are
just two sides of the same coin."
- By Stefan Nicola, Rafaela Lindeberg and
William Wilkes. With assistance from Monica Raymunt.

There is no long milage testing reports on the EV trucks I can find I,found 1 that said 530 mile trip grossing 81,000 lbs .Both will have a place the EV for local and hydrogen for cross country.I doubt you will ever see a EV truck running double drivers for next day delivery.I noticed that most of EV trucks sold to Pepsi are for Frito /Lay those won't be carrying weight for sure  you can pull a 53 ft trailer loaded with potatoes chips with a VW 


A little drift here but I was under the impression if you owned a Tesla charging was free at the super chagers,I found out in Needles that only 2 models are free you pay for charging the later new models and like fuel in Needles it is not cheap

So now they are going to use VW's to pull potato chip wagons. Cool

Quote from: Dave5Cs on April 14, 2023, 08:56:27 AM
So now they are going to use VW's to pull potato chip wagons. Cool

When I was doing some work for Frito/Lay in Jonesboro AR a driver told me a load of chips were only 6300 lbs in 53 ft trailer,The trailers are heavier than the average because of the rolling floor for unloading

Betcha can't eat just one!

Quote from: dtcerrato on April 14, 2023, 11:02:47 AM
Betcha can't eat just one!

After watching chips made for 4 months I won't even eat one !,when the oil gets old then you get flavored chips.It is quite the operation how they recycle the oil over and over again   

Entergy Texas and Monarch Energy to advance green hydrogen in Southeast Texas

April 10, 2023 1 By ERIN KILGORE
Entergy Texas and Monarch Energy have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to supply long-term renewable energy to Monarch's 500-megawatt green H2 electrolyzer project near Beaumont, Texas. Entergy Texas will leverage the existing transmission infrastructure to supply the renewable energy to Monarch's electrolyzer project or build new generation resources as part of the agreement. Monarch Energy's green hydrogen electrolyzer project could bring a possible $500m investment in the Beaumont region with more than 500 temporary construction jobs and more than 30 permanent operational jobs. The project is expected to commence commercial operations by 2026.

I didn't know this occurred naturally:

NATURAL HYDROGEN is a newly discovered geological source of sustainable and non-fossil energy
Hydrogen is generated by a natural geochemical process inside the Earth's crust, and because of this it is a sustainable and inexhaustible source. Moreover, helium is often present in high concentrations within hydrogen accumulations.

Our project has been awarded the Solar Impulse Efficient Solution Label, as a part of thousand solutions to change the World.
Instead of drilling for fossil fuel we drill directly for natural hydrogen and associated helium

Our first exploratory well was successfully drilled in 2019. It provided us with unique information about these types of prospects.
Today we have the expertise and know-how to successfully identify and drill for hydrogen accumulations and related minerals.
We are exploring geological sources of natural hydrogen with the goal to extract it for mankind's benefit

FORBES
An L.A. Startup Aims To Turn The Oceans Into A CO2 Sponge And 'Green' Hydrogen Machine
Apr 12, 2023,03:00pm EDT
Equatic_oceans_CO2_hydrogen

Gaurav Sant, a UCLA professor of civil and environmental engineering and materials science and engineering, runs the Institute for Carbon Management.UCLA SAMUELI SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING
Created by scientists at UCLA's ambitious Institute for Carbon Management, Equatic has developed a way to remove an environmentally harmful greenhouse gas from our atmosphere — and simultaneously generate usable green fuel.
By Alan Ohnsman Forbes Staff

In a drafty dockside warehouse at the Port of Los Angeles on a cool evening early this year, Gaurav Sant, a UCLA professor of civil and environmental engineering and materials science and engineering, was speaking to a conference crowd about the potential for a new way to pull carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

The 39-year-old director of UCLA's Institute for Carbon Management (ICM) described a method of eliminating the dangerously prevalent greenhouse gas in a way that seemed too good to be true: suck it out of the ocean, allowing it to absorb more CO2 from the air like a giant global sponge. It could be done via a relatively simple electrochemical process miming what nature already does. And a byproduct is hydrogen, arguably the future of storable, carbon-free energy.

Proportionally, "ocean water contains 150 times more carbon dioxide than the air, which means if you want to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere one of the most effective ways to do it is by removing it from the oceans," he told the audience.

Sant's method is more than a science experiment: It's well on the way to commercialization through Equatic, a Los Angeles-based startup that's scaling up the ocean-based CO2 reduction and hydrogen production tech developed by Sant and UCLA scientists. His hope, and that of backers including the Grantham Foundation, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Singapore's Temasek Foundation and U.S. Energy Department, which have contributed $30 million so far, is that Equatic will be removing millions of tons of CO2 in the years to come—and do so for less than $100 per ton. Sant also expects the company to generate hydrogen for $1 per kilogram that it can sell or use to help power Equatic's operations.

Two small pilot facilities are operating on barges to prove the approach works: one in Los Angeles that was unveiled for the first time today and a similar one in Singapore. Each can remove 100 kilograms of CO2 and make a few kilograms of hydrogen daily. A larger test plant is to open late next year in Singapore, integrated into a desalination facility, scaled to remove 10 metric tons of CO2 per day or at least 3,500 tons annually. If all goes well, Equatic's goal is to operate large commercial-scale plants capable of eliminating 1 million metric tons of CO2 and making 35,000 metric tons of hydrogen annually by the late 2020s. Ahead of that, the company's goal is to raise a further $100 million and refine the design of its plants.

As usual, humanity is steaming full speed ahead without any investigation or regard for the consequences. Give 'em a political football and that's the end of the thought process.

Wasn't very long ago the scientists were saying that we are overdue for a mini-ice age and based it on the core samples taken which show the planet's chronological climate history so the projection can be taken as fairly accurate. Why is that overdue? Reason dictates that it is because of greenhouse gasses.

Now we are hell bent on removing those greenhouse gasses and what could possibly go wrong? Oh I dunno, maybe the onset of the overdue ice age? Think that could be a possibility?

They've changed their story to fit the facts as they come out. Now it is no longer Global Warming because they can't substantiate that claim any longer. Now it it Climate Change. The difference is, climate change can be cooler rather than hotter. We've always had climate change, it's called Seasons and Weather. There is also a much longer cycle between ice ages and a more tropical planet. As things stand we are sitting on a balance point between warming and cooling which is why they can't promote global warming any more. Perhaps it might not be a bad thing to shift SLIGHTLY towards cooling, but the consequences if we go too far can be dire indeed. The history of the planet shows that most succinctly. Of course if you'd rather live in Canada, Alaska or Siberia than in Florida or the Mediterranean you might like that.

This balance point depends on a careful relationship of all factors which btw includes humanity's output of heat and even pollution of all types. Humanity's influence is very small, therefore if it is to make any difference at all it must be managed very carefully. We most certainly are not doing that. So now, by shifting all power production and use to renewable and non-carbon based sources we are essentially cruising along at highway speed and then slamming the bus into reverse. This could have unexpected consequences but it is quite forseeable that once the powers that be have succeeded in removing all the carbon burning vehicles from the roads and replacing power generation with wind farms and solar, then converted all heavy industry to electric we could trigger a cascade into runaway planetary cooling that we are then powerless to counteract.

Somebody somewhere really should be looking into this, but as usual, not a word. I suppose we'll just carry on as we are until they start to notice the ice caps growing and then everyone can scream and throw up their hands, run around like chickens with their heads cut off and turn our forests into bonfires to warm us back up. Maybe set off a chain of nukes to boost the heat output. It'd be just about the knee-jerk reaction I would expect.

Jim

BYE BYE EV's :^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTawvzH0MQ4

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on April 17, 2023, 07:04:34 AM
As usual, humanity is steaming full speed ahead without any investigation or regard for the consequences. Give 'em a political football and that's the end of the thought process.

Wasn't very long ago the scientists were saying that we are overdue for a mini-ice age and based it on the core samples taken which show the planet's chronological climate history so the projection can be taken as fairly accurate. Why is that overdue? Reason dictates that it is because of greenhouse gasses.

Now we are hell bent on removing those greenhouse gasses and what could possibly go wrong? Oh I dunno, maybe the onset of the overdue ice age? Think that could be a possibility?

They've changed their story to fit the facts as they come out. Now it is no longer Global Warming because they can't substantiate that claim any longer. Now it it Climate Change. The difference is, climate change can be cooler rather than hotter. We've always had climate change, it's called Seasons and Weather. There is also a much longer cycle between ice ages and a more tropical planet. As things stand we are sitting on a balance point between warming and cooling which is why they can't promote global warming any more. Perhaps it might not be a bad thing to shift SLIGHTLY towards cooling, but the consequences if we go too far can be dire indeed. The history of the planet shows that most succinctly. Of course if you'd rather live in Canada, Alaska or Siberia than in Florida or the Mediterranean you might like that.

This balance point depends on a careful relationship of all factors which btw includes humanity's output of heat and even pollution of all types. Humanity's influence is very small, therefore if it is to make any difference at all it must be managed very carefully. We most certainly are not doing that. So now, by shifting all power production and use to renewable and non-carbon based sources we are essentially cruising along at highway speed and then slamming the bus into reverse. This could have unexpected consequences but it is quite forseeable that once the powers that be have succeeded in removing all the carbon burning vehicles from the roads and replacing power generation with wind farms and solar, then converted all heavy industry to electric we could trigger a cascade into runaway planetary cooling that we are then powerless to counteract.

Somebody somewhere really should be looking into this, but as usual, not a word. I suppose we'll just carry on as we are until they start to notice the ice caps growing and then everyone can scream and throw up their hands, run around like chickens with their heads cut off and turn our forests into bonfires to warm us back up. Maybe set off a chain of nukes to boost the heat output. It'd be just about the knee-jerk reaction I would expect.

Jim

You're not wrong at all.

During the 2020 lock downs, they found that despite vehicle usage going down some 80%, the associated CO2 emissions didn't go down that much- in accordance with the models from the IPCC and other governmental bodies. Of course, this isn't widely publicised. In addition the CO2 targets Democrats want us to adhere to in terms of usage are LOWER than what we achieved during the 2020 lock downs. It makes no sense.

The energy consumption to make a vehicle- currently- a gasoline is about 97-125 gigaJoules/Vehciles, a diesel is 99-128, while a BEV is about double that of a gasoline as is a fuel cell vehicle.

No one talks about this.

In addition, with the exception of the pacific north west where there is alot of hydroelectric power- wheel to well calculations dont show a huge benefit in terms of CO2 production for a BEV.

I work in this field, when you start to dig and ask questions like this- you start to see gaping holes.

There's virtually no effort being put into CO2 recapture technologies at all. This is in its infancy but arguably less so than EVs.
Effort could be put into incentivising growing more trees - which  use up CO2 and produce oxygen. But this isn't being considered.

Why is that?

I don't want to hear about carbonfoot prints or being pointed at and called a 'climaet denier' until these questions are answered in a knowledagle manner.

First Hydrogen releases creative vision for hydrogen powered RV
Hydrogen News
April 19, 2023 1 By BRET WILLIAMS
Canadian and UK based First Hydrogen is aiming to become a leader in the hydrogen powered RV sector. The firm, which specializes in zero-emission automotive development, released a creative concept for its hydrogen-powered RV as an extension of its generation II light commercial vehicle design. The purpose-built recreational vehicle is designed to offer more spacious living and sleeping areas than EV alternatives, and is said to be capable of handling greater weights and driving ranges. It is also capable of refuelling in a similar time to petrol or diesel models, an advantage over recharging, which can take hours.

The company is taking aim at a leadership position in H2 fueled recreational vehicles.
First Hydrogen has announced the release of the creative vision for its first ever hydrogen powered RV, as it places a new focus on the considerable potential of carbon emission-free vehicles in the leisure market.

This step into recreational vehicles opens the door for an entirely new space in the leisure market.
The company is headquartered in Vancouver, Canada and London, UK and is a zero-emission automotive developer. It announced the creative vision for its hydrogen powered RV on the heels of its release of its Generation II light commercial vehicles (LCV) plans. The company's moves are a demonstration of the spectrum of applications to which fuel cell technology is a solid fit for mid-sized and larger vehicles.

Also this:
In 2018 Mercedes came out with their hydrogen RV concept, the F-Cell Sprinter

Whatever decision is made (forced upon- as this current administration has weaponised the EPA) as a solution for heavy duty trucks- will likely cascade into RVs. If it's hyrdrogen- than may be it will be hydrogen.

Heavy duty trucks run a very agressive and arduous duty cycle much like RVs and unlike passenger cars.

Hydrogen combustion can be calibrated to run zero NOx emissions, without any penality in terms of hydro carbon emissions.

The challenge is storage, as it needs to be stored as liquid hydrogen under pressure or else in gaseous form- it will diffuse and escape during storage.

The other issue is emissions- it's similar to the whole EV farce, the power generated to make the Hydrogen will incur a CO2 and HC penalty in most power generation methods. And no, hopefully no one here is naive enough to believe that we can go all to renewables predominantly without me having to talk about contingent strategies and stand by scenarios.

Walmart has teamed up with Cummins,and Chevron,they have 5 of the new ISXN 15 RNG gas engines running from Indiana to CA and Chevron has set up stations to refuel the trucks with CNG .Cummins should have the CNG engines trouble free now they been dealing with the smaller CNG engines for years now

Cliff, agreed, Cummins were looking at CNG years ago. We were looking at it on the DT466 at Navistar at least 10 years ago.

This current administration seems to be against anything internal combustion - it defies logic.

Yeahs ago BMW and Honda tried to look into Hydrogen combustion but the EPA said they couldnt catogorise it as a zero emissions fuel because of how Hydrogen is generated and yet- they happily classify EVs as zero emissions.

A short term and cheap way to reduce emissions is to make the compression ignition HD engines configured to run gasoline (but with compression ignition and not spark ignition). Gasoline is cheaper than diesel and it wouldn't involve a whole redesign of the whole engine architechture, mainly the fuel system. The Soot and Nox (trade off) will immediately improve significantly and it would potentially allow OEM manufacturers to drop costly DEF fluid aftertreatment solutions. But this seems to be falling upon deaf ears. Like I said, it defies reason/logic.....

Cummins hasn't stopped working with natural gas converted diesel blocks since the 80's.

If they don't know, nobody does.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Quote from: buswarrior on April 20, 2023, 05:49:50 PM
Cummins hasn't stopped working with natural gas converted diesel blocks since the 80's.

If they don't know, nobody does.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Cummins never made a CNG engine with 15L before all the UPS CNG trucks on the interstate were the 11L engines and unpowered for pulling doubles,the brown drivers hated those.CNG burns so clean those will be over a million mile engine like the diesels.

Layer green hydrogen cars Croft system developed
April 20, 2023 1 By JULIE CAMPBELL
Layer and Croft have partnered to design a new system to retrofit vehicles into green hydrogen cars. They have created the Nanoplant and Nanocartridges, the first prototypes that allow users to produce solid-state H2 for powering hydrogen cars and trucks.

The companies partnered to design a new system to make it possible to retrofit vehicles to run on H2.
Layer and U.S. startup Croft joined forces to design several new products that will make it possible to retrofit vehicles and turn them into green hydrogen cars.

The Croft Nanoplant and Nanocartridges are the first prototypes to result from this partnership.
The first two prototypes for which the project is currently raising funds are the Nanoplant and the Nanocartridges from Croft. They make it possible for users to produce their own solid-state H2 for powering hydrogen cars, trucks and even heavy-duty vehicles.

The Nanoplant looks not unlike a large home battery. It works by using electricity from the grid to electrolyze tap water, splitting the molecules into H2 and O2. If the grid is powered by renewable energy, the product is considered to be green hydrogen. That said, this would depend on the source of power on the grid to which it was connected.

The Nanoplant has a pull-out drawer with a capacity for up to four Nanocartridges for hydrogen cars.
Those are an alternative form of cannister which is where the H2 produced in the Nanoplant is stored. It is stored in the Nanocartridges using a proprietary particulate to which the H2 adheres.

According to Croft, by storing the H2 this way it offers a method of storage at density and at low-pressure, meaning that it is safe while simultaneously providing hydrogen cars with better power and range than their battery electric counterparts.

Croft is "dedicated to creating a blueprint for an enduring, scalable, green-hydrogen economy," said a statement from Layer. It also pointed out that its partner provides its tech with a notably lower price tag than other H2 storage solutions currently on the market or that are approaching their launch.

Layer has stated that the Nanoplant and Nanocartridges are great for hydrogen cars, but that they're ideally suited for larger vehicles operating in environments with few fast-charging options. For instance, pick-up trucks used in farming, construction, forestry, and other industries. Those will be the primary target markets for the launch of these products.

Meant for hydrogen cars and trucks operating in areas not well served by EV charging stations.
hydrogen news ebook"Batteries are great to decarbonise smaller passenger vehicles that get used in gentle, predictable ways with access to good charging infrastructure," said Benjamin Hubert, founder of the Layer creative agency. "However, lots of mobility applications don't match that description, and there, we need a power source that is denser than batteries and has fewer dependencies on infrastructure."

"Hydrogen stores significantly more energy in less space and with less weight than batteries, and it's much easier to use hydrogen in environments with weak grids or where charging otherwise isn't available," added Hubert. He explained that, at least in the near future, hydrogen cars and trucks could provide a complementary zero-emission vehicle alternative to electric vehicle technology, as opposed to being competition.

"It's a great complementary solution to batteries, and as with all things, it's important to pick the right tool for the right job," he stated in a recent Dezeen article.

Retrofitting vehicles to become hydrogen cars and trucks
In order to retrofit vehicles using the system to become hydrogen cars and trucks, Croft removes the majority of the powertrain components. Instead, an H2 storage system, fuel cell, electric motor and other components are installed and the vehicle's onboard computer is reprogrammed in order to operate them.

The Nanoplant and Nanocartridge design and engineering was lead by Layer, which sought to make them as practical and simple to understand and use while also having a robust and technological appearance.

Rolls-Royce unveils green hydrogen production plans

April 25, 2023 0 By TAMI HOOD
Rolls-Royce has revealed its plans to produce green hydrogen at its Friedrichschafen headquarters and also unveiled its plans for testing fuel cell systems and mtu hydrogen engines. The company has already successfully tested its 250kw fuel cell demonstrator system, which could offer uninterruptible power in the event of an outage. Rolls-Royce aims to start green hydrogen production and follow it through much of the value chain, and is working on developing its own standardized mtu electrolyzers with 4MW outputs with the capacity to scale to over 100MW.

The company also revealed that it is working on plans for H2 fuel cell systems.
Rolls-Royce has announced its new plans for the production of green hydrogen at its Friedrichschafen headquarters. At the same time, it unveiled its plans for testing its fuel cell systems and mtu hydrogen engines.
The company added that its 250kw fuel cell demonstrator has already been successfully tested.
The fuel cell demonstrator system could offer uninterruptible power in the case of an outage.

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/is-hydrogen-the-clean-fuel-of-the-future-170969157630

Toyota Certifies a Drop-In Fuel-Cell Kit for Big Rigs
Rather than R&D their own, truckmakers can swap in a Toyota to meet ZEV requirements with their Class 8 trucks.

BY MARK VAUGHN
  APR 27, 2023
toyota class 8 fuel cell powertrain kitTOYOTA
Toyota has certified a fuel-cell powertrain kit for big Class 8 trucks.
The kits can be used by companies like Kenworth to power 18-wheelers.
No pricing, power, or torque specs were released.
Emissions rules are getting tighter all the time, particularly in California, and the whole transportation industry is reinventing itself to address new government regulations for clean air. The requirements for big Class 8 trucks that haul containers from the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach to rail cars in East L.A. say the trucks must be zero-emissions—as in no tailpipe pollutants at all.

Almost all truckmakers—including Tesla, Mack, Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and Freightliner—are addressing this new challenge with electric solutions. But Toyota, way behind on battery-electric powertrains, is going the fuel-cell route.

Thus, Toyota recently celebrated the California Air Resources Board's (CARB) certification of its new heavy-duty fuel cell electric powertrain. The standalone powertrain comes in the form of a relatively compact kit—the "hydrogen-fueled powertrain kit." It includes: hydrogen fuel storage tanks, fuel-cell stacks, batteries, electric motors, and transmission. According to Toyota, the kit "offers a viable alternative to traditional diesel powertrains used in commercial goods transportation as companies look to transition their fleets to zero-emission vehicles."

No power or torque ratings were released and no pricing was mentioned, but the units are meant to fit into existing Class 8 truck architecture.

"Heavy-duty Class 8 commercial truck original equipment manufacturers and operators now have another tool to help them comply with increasingly strict emissions regulations in the State of California," Toyota said.

The Toyota unit was certified by CARB to meet that agency's Zero-Emissions Powertrain Executive Order and may also be eligible for government incentives to help pay for the transformation to cleaner running, such as CARB's Hybrid and Zero-Emission Truck and Bus Voucher Incentive Project (HVIP), the Clean Truck Fund (CTF) introduced last year by the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, as well as certain federal incentives. So while the price of the powertrain wasn't released, whatever the price is can be mitigated by government funds to help truckers make the transition to zero-emissions.
Toyota says it has developed multiple generations of powertrain prototypes during almost six years of development, including a generation of truck named Ocean that "showed some of the greatest examples of how hydrogen-based powertrains with fuel cell stacks could be used in real-world applications such as drayage (short hauls), through a proof-of-concept demonstration at the Port of Los Angeles as part of the Zero-and-Near-Zero Emission Freight Facilities' 'Shore to Store' Project." In that project, Toyota worked with Kenworth to develop trucks using an updated prototype fuel cell electric powertrain and deployed 10 Kenworth T680 Class 8 trucks with it. The 10 trucks served real-world customers via drayage routes, with infrastructure support from Shell, hauling cargo between the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach and the L.A. Basin.
The powertrain is ready for commercialization, with production slated to start for customers later this year at Toyota's Kentucky manufacturing plant.

"This newest generation of powertrain reflects key learnings and improvements in things like energy efficiency, package size, and more from extensive real-world testing and development from the company's fuel cell development engineering team," Toyota said. "Fuel cell electric powertrains are advantageous for heavy- and medium-duty transport when compared to other all-electric options, such as battery electric, as they are often lighter to allow for more payload, and they offer more uptime thanks to fueling times that are much closer to conventional diesel powertrains."...
          ‐----------------
The Hydrogen Truck Race is in full swing, and major automakers and technology providers are competing to produce the most reliable and efficient fuel cell electric trucks.
Toyota Motor North America, for example, is expected to deliver zero-emission fuel cell electric powertrain kits produced in Kentucky this year. The kits include hydrogen fuel storage tanks, fuel cell stacks, batteries, electric motors, and transmission, and qualify for California and federal incentives. Toyota has embraced fuel cells over pure battery-electric vehicles due to their energy efficiency and shorter charge time.

Good update on getting more hydrogen into the real world. will just have to let time tell how far this goes. The example shows how Calif is getting on the bandwagon and is supported by the fixed and short haul requirements. Given the fixed and shorter routes enables refueling stations to be deployed to meet the needs. In the big scheme of things, this is a pebble in the beach but at least moving forward.

EV charging can cost, we were in Needles last night and a guy was real upset about the price of charging with the Tesla super charger. I thought Tesla charging was free, I guess not on his 2022 he only had 10,000 miles of free charging.LOL a guy with a $100,000 automobile was really pissed off about the $50.00 fee from LA to Needles,I told him 50 bucks for 325 miles was not that bad to me just look @ the $6.25 gal price of gasoline here
 

Anybody who thinks cars will get cheaper to drive is not being very realistic. Either that or they haven't bothered reviewing any historical data. While there may be certain "incentives" overall the cost trends ever upwards. The most economical route is to buy an older high MPG car in good condition, do the preventative maintenance, and drive it for as long as possible. The very idea that you can drop tens of thousands of dollars to achieve a better overall cost per mile traveled is ludicrous at best and sheer idiocy in the most realistic sense. Whether gasoline, diesel, propane, hydrogen, electricity or whatever that formula does not change.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on May 01, 2023, 09:03:04 AM
Anybody who thinks cars will get cheaper to drive is not being very realistic. Either that or they haven't bothered reviewing any historical data. While there may be certain "incentives" overall the cost trends ever upwards. The most economical route is to buy an older high MPG car in good condition, do the preventative maintenance, and drive it for as long as possible. The very idea that you can drop tens of thousands of dollars to achieve a better overall cost per mile traveled is ludicrous at best and sheer idiocy in the most realistic sense. Whether gasoline, diesel, propane, hydrogen, electricity or whatever that formula does not change.

Jim

Hear, hear!!!

It going to cost ,hard for me to believe people with 700 to $1000.00 + a month car payment for 7 years nowadays. 

Old cars and trucks are great! But for every day driving with the fluctuations in the price of oil and electricity, for a young family finding a honest and knowledgeable mechanic for a decent price is not easy. Single moms and dads are especially hard on their incomes with car repairs. But we have made remarkable progress on big city air and caustic pollution. Small towns and rural areas have had bigger impacts from water pollution by factories and illegal dumpers.
   But there is no turning back to cars and trucks powered by flat head V8s, even when running at their best, they're spouting pollutants we don't want to breath at a stop light.
   If you haven't had a child with asthma struggling to breath, or a grand parent terrified that her oxygen machine costs $300 to fix, with it taking 3 weeks to get it back,  then your hiding from what's happening to our enviorment.
   There's a place for battery powered vehicles and Hydrogen combustion engines and everything in between. But it will take some time. So the regulators are doing what the public wants, clean air and fresh water. It worked cleaning the air in cities I know of, but of course it will take time. just as it did when we got rid of our horses to move into cars, when we put mufflers at an increase in price, seatbelts, when we put in collapsing steering and side guard door beams, airbags, electronic ignition and fuel injection, roll over protection, cng and propane fuel in fleets to cut pollution. It will take time, but we're improving the lives of all by doing these steps to improve our transportation...

LOL we need  to clean up our neighbors to the south of us,the south winds here this time of the year just blows the pollution towards us you can see it coming.They took down the power plant in Laughlin and guess where it went lol right across the border into  Mexico.We can clean up our mess maybe but till other countries clean up we are still going to have pollution mother nature has no boundaries with wind>I don't buy into to a lot of the BS that comes from DC like banning NG ovens, electricity can be out for days or weeks but the flame keeps going to keep you warm and to cook with, if you pay your bill, idiots in DC are ate up with the dumb @$# 

Hydrogen fuel news
Cummins to invest $1 billion into US networks supporting future hydrogen fuel use
May 1, 2023 1 By JOHN MAX
Cummins Inc. has announced plans to invest over $1 billion in its US engine manufacturing network for a transition into hydrogen fuel. The investment will upgrade facilities supporting "fuel-agnostic" engine platforms that operate on low-carbon fuels, including hydrogen, with the aim of decarbonizing truck and bus fleets in the US.

The company announced that this investment is on top of those recently made in its Minnesota plant.
Cummins Inc. has announced that on top of the recent investments it has already made in its Fridley, Minnesota plant, it will also be investing over $1 billion across its US engine manufacturing network in a plan that will support a transition into hydrogen fuel.


The investments are being made across the network in Indiana, North Carolina and New York.
The $1 billion is intended to provide an upgrade of facilities supporting the first "fuel-agnostic" engine platforms in the industry. These will operate on low-carbon fuels which will begin with natural gas and diesel, but with the intention to transition to hydrogen fuel in the future. In this way, the company says that it will be playing an important role in the decarbonization of the truck and bus fleets throughout the United States...

I' m sure everyone has noticed the cost of personal automobiles has increased faster than the average person budget. The other disturbing trend is increasingly automobiles are rolling internet connected devices. Look at the "services" now offered via online subscriptions. Everything from emergency notifications, enabling extra features, increasing motor and vehicle performance, etc.

What is happening is between the hollowing out of the middle class, work from home/fewer trips to an office, and pricing beyond the traditional market's limits means less ownership coming soon. In place will be increased Uber type autonomyous service hailed to your door when you need a ride. Much like those living in NYC for example, they don't own a personal car. That will become far more normal.

That said, some people have requirements that necessiate owning a personal car, nothing wrong with that, no different than the gardner need a truck for the tools, etc.
So much is changing but it doesn't make navigating paradigm shifts any easier to absorb and accept.

Transport Topics
April 28, 2023 3:05 PM, EDT
Toyota Class 8 Hydrogen Powertrain Approved in California

Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell powertrain for Class 8 trucks will be available in California later this year. (Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A)
[Stay on top of transportation news: Get TTNews in your inbox.]

Toyota is to begin offering Class 8 commercial truck manufacturers and operators a hydrogen-fueled powertrain in California later this year after winning zero-emission certification for the product from the state Air Resources Board, the Japanese automotive giant said April 24.

Commercial production of the powertrain for customers will start at the company's Georgetown, Ky., facility, the largest manufacturing site in Toyota's global portfolio. Toyota's powertrain kit includes hydrogen fuel storage tanks, fuel cell stacks, batteries, electric motors and transmission.

"We believe hydrogen will play a significant role in the emissions reduction of heavy-duty transport while not sacrificing the distance, power or fueling times needed to keep these fleet and individual operators running," said Chris Rovik, Toyota Motor North America's  executive program manager of advanced mobility.

I suspect most agree hydrogen is and can increase use in fleet and commercial applications. Government has them in vehicle pools where they retuurn regularly and can refuel. I just can not find any way that it will have any penetration in the personal vehicle market. Thanks for the updates.

Quote from: windtrader on May 04, 2023, 01:30:31 PM
I' m sure everyone has noticed the cost of personal automobiles has increased faster than the average person budget. The other disturbing trend is increasingly automobiles are rolling internet connected devices. Look at the "services" now offered via online subscriptions. Everything from emergency notifications, enabling extra features, increasing motor and vehicle performance, etc.

What is happening is between the hollowing out of the middle class, work from home/fewer trips to an office, and pricing beyond the traditional market's limits means less ownership coming soon. In place will be increased Uber type autonomyous service hailed to your door when you need a ride. Much like those living in NYC for example, they don't own a personal car. That will become far more normal.

That said, some people have requirements that necessiate owning a personal car, nothing wrong with that, no different than the gardner need a truck for the tools, etc.
So much is changing but it doesn't make navigating paradigm shifts any easier to absorb and accept.

This is not new, it is a correction to previous times.

The peasants walk, and worry about the next meal.

Only royalty and the rich have horses and carriages.

The grand, post war experiment is coming to an end, the royals and the rich are tired of rubbing elbows with us.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

You wonder how much torque and hp the ISX 15 is going to loose with Hydrogen,they have a lot to give up though it's big engine

Yahoo news
Jalopnik
Michigan Chosen to Host $400 Million Hydrogen Equipment Factory
Ryan Erik King
May 5, 2023, 9:40 am

Norwegian company Nel Hydrogen has announced that it will build a manufacturing facility for around $400 million in Michigan. The factory will be the first in the United States to produce electrolyzers, machines that use electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. Nel cited the short distance to its partner General Motors as one of the factors behind the choice.

According to MLive.com, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer met with Nel Hydrogen executives in January to advocate for the state's selection during an investment trip to Norway and Switzerland. The company had assessed several possible locations across the United States before Michigan was chosen. However, an exact location within the state has yet to be decided.

Quote from: buswarrior on May 06, 2023, 11:37:13 AM
This is not new, it is a correction to previous times.

The peasants walk, and worry about the next meal.

Only royalty and the rich have horses and carriages.

The grand, post war experiment is coming to an end, the royals and the rich are tired of rubbing elbows with us.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

A sign of the times. This is what the breakaway colonists were trying to avoid, and I'd say they did a pretty good job of it, coming up with an imperfect plan that took over 200 years to fail. But as always, Liberty must from time to time feast upon the blood of martyrs. Have faith, we'll get there. We are growing ever closer day by day. There is much to learn from the French Revolution.

Jim

Quote from: buswarrior on May 06, 2023, 11:37:13 AM
The grand, post war experiment is coming to an end, the royals and the rich are tired of rubbing elbows with us.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Totally agree. History shows the way that when the rich can no longer keep the peasants at bay, the revolution ensues. It's hard to say this time what will occur as the advancements in technology are having a very different impact on society, careers, jobs, lifestyles, basically everything. It may be the rich who will capitalize the automating of the vast number of professions may be able to dole out basic services to the masses while keeping control. One thing is certain, those that have difficulty with change will be completely blindsided with the pace of change now underway.
@Jim Blackwood - exactly

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/05/07/new-car-market-high-interest-rates/

I saw a new F150 Ford Shelby 2 door pickup the dealership was asking $140,000 for, what would you do with a pickup that expensive besides wash it and look at it and pay $5000 a year for insurance. At least is was a gasoline engine, there are a few of Rivian electric pickups here they paid $138,000.00 for

I'm not buying any new cars. I've got a 21 year old Lincoln Blackwood pickup and a 52 year old MGB hot rod and I know for a fact that I can make them both last another 30 years. It's just not cost effective to do anything different.

Jim

None of it makes any sense now,I am happy with a 2 door pickup with hand roll up windows and a manual latch tail gate. A friend of mine has the dumbest outlook on new vehicles he says it only costs a $100.00 or so more in payments to go 1st class.The guy has $2880.00 a month house payments and $1700.00 a month car payments for 2 vehicles and wonders why he is broke all the time

What is everyone going to do when the masses find out that people are burning up our water to make hydrogen? Hydrogen will be the new incandescent lightbulb or dishwasher.

Quote from: Glennman on May 09, 2023, 12:49:13 PM
What is everyone going to do when the masses find out that people are burning up our water to make hydrogen? Hydrogen will be the new incandescent lightbulb or dishwasher.

Probably won't be anywhere close as the water used in lithium mining they are doing now

       hydrogen
Chevron believes in the value of delivering large-scale hydrogen solutions that support a growing, lower carbon world. Building on our existing assets, capabilities and customer base, we aim to create a profitable, large-scale, lower carbon hydrogen business. We're well positioned to participate across the value chain to supply industrial, power and heavy-duty transportation customers.

Chevron produces approximately 1 million tonnes per year of hydrogen through our traditional business and has experience in retail hydrogen going back to 2005. Chevron has been investing in hydrogen research and development for decades and holds more than 75 patents from early commercial ventures that are applicable to our future development plans.

We're exploring profitable opportunities for growth across the value chain, from upstream production through distribution into transportation, power generation and other industrial sectors. For example, at our refinery in Richmond, California, excess capacity in the new hydrogen units, combined with existing and future strategic partnerships, will be a foundation to support hydrogen demand growth.

Chevron is evaluating the use of hydrogen as an alternative for industries dependent on combustible fuels and assessing development of hydrogen production hubs. We are also leveraging our capabilities in carbon capture, utilization, and storage to unlock market opportunities for hydrogen solutions.

50 hydrogen fueling stations

Clean Technica
General Motors Seizes The Fuel Cell Moment With Green Hydrogen
Green hydrogen is needed to ice the zero emission fuel cell electric cake for GM's Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure vehicle platform.

ByTina Casey

General Motors has dropped hints about its interest in fuel cell electric vehicles over the years, but apparently that is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg. The company has made some interesting moves in recent months which suggest a more holistic approach to the green hydrogen economy of the future, regardless of what the skeptics may say.

GM Fishes For Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles...
GM's interest in hydrogen caught the CleanTechnica eye back in 2013, after the company introduced a demonstration fleet of 16 fuel cell electric vehicles for the US Army in Hawaii. The Army demonstration was built on GM's Project Driveway fleet of 119 vehicles, which launched in 2007 and racked up almost 3 million miles of driving in six years.

What caught our eye was a new hookup between GM and Honda. Honda was also hammering away at the challenge of introducing fuel cell vehicles to the US market. The collaboration launched in July of 2013, providing for the two companies to share the combined total of 1,200 fuel cell patents they compiled in the years leading up to 2012.

GM introduced its "SURUS" fuel cell electric vehicle platform in 2017, but it still didn't have a fuel cell EV in commercial production by 2020, though a preliminary agreement with Nikola Motor involving the Badger fuel cell electric pickup truck suggested that activity was about to pick up...

GM has not been idling around since then. As part of its collaboration with Honda, GM set its sights on developing fuel cells for heavy duty use, resulting in its Hydrotec suite of fuel cell systems.
...GM is also collaborating with Navistar on fuel cells for trucks, and with Wabtec on fuel cells for locomotives. GM has also been deploying Hydrotec modules as transportable charging stations for battery-electric vehicles.

The sticky wicket, of course, is the continued reliance on natural gas and other fossil resources to produce the hydrogen needed to run fuel cells. GM has a plan for that, too. Last November, GM enlisted Nel USA, a unit of Norway's Nel ASA, to help push down the cost of electrolyzer systems and pump up the green hydrogen supply chain. Electrolysis is used to "split" hydrogen gas from water, as a more sustainable alternative to the conventional steam reformation system used to produce hydrogen from natural gas.

Hydrogen Fuel News

Toyota and VDL Groep to convert heavy-duty vehicles into hydrogen fuel cell trucks
Toyota and VDL Groep to convert heavy-duty vehicles into hydrogen fuel cell trucks
May 16, 2023 2 By ALICIA MOORE
Contents hide
1 The companies have partnered to speed up the decarbonization of the road logistics sector.
1.1 Toyota sees significant potential in using H2 trucks to decarbonize its logistic routes.
1.2 The first of the hydrogen fuel cell trucks will be ready by summer 2023.
1.2.1 This new truck project is one among many H2 projects for Toyota.
1.3 Test Your Hydrogen Knowledge
The companies have partnered to speed up the decarbonization of the road logistics sector.
Toyota Motor Europe (TME) and Dutch VDL Groep have teamed up to covert VDL's existing heavy-duty trucks into hydrogen fuel cell trucks using Toyota's fuel cell modules, with a goal to accelerate decarbonizing the road logistics sector while also breaking into Europe's zero-emission heavy duty H2 trucks market.

Toyota sees significant potential in using H2 trucks to decarbonize its logistic routes.

Toyota Motor Europe seeks to achieve its full carbon-neutral strategy by 2040, and speeding up the decarbonization of the road logistics sector with hydrogen fuel cell trucks is an important factor in achieving this goal.

H2 trucks can be quickly refuelled – as fast as diesel – and hydrogen systems have a lower mass, which allows for a heavier payload. This can make them essential for transport with high utilization and key contributors in evolving sustainable infrastructures around key routes in Europe.

"We are excited to begin this project with VDL Groep, as it will allow us to further decarbonise the long-haul transport of our components, vehicles and service parts," said Leon Van Der Merwe, VP Supply Chain Toyota Motor Europe, in a recent TME news release.

The first of the hydrogen fuel cell trucks will be ready by summer 2023.
VDL Special Vehicles (a part of VDL Groep), a specialist in the field of battery electric and hydrogen solutions for on- and off-road vehicles, will build the first hydrogen truck by this summer. Following this first fuel cell truck, the companies will produce and assess more hydrogen fuel cell trucks on TME logistics routes in the fall.

The project will combine knowledge on how to deploy fuel cell trucks. This will further support the company's long-term goal of lowering Toyota's carbon footprint and decarbonizing logistics with vehicles other than passenger EVs.
"Heavy-duty trucks will remain an important pillar within our multimodal strategy, and the introduction of zero-emission trucks, equipped with our Toyota fuel cell modules, will have a strong impact on the overall carbon reduction of our logistics," added Van Der Merwe.
This new truck project is one among many H2 projects for Toyota.
hydrogen news ebookThe hydrogen fuel cell trucks project Toyota has in partnership with VDL Groep is only one of many H2 projects that the automaker has put into place with multiple partners. Other projects Toyota has in the works for the purpose of speeding up the transition toward a hydrogen economy include those for light commercial vehicles, buses, trains, and boats.

Green Car Reports
Honda plans fuel-cell semi, ponders hydrogen for small mobility
Stephen Edelstein
STEPHEN EDELSTEIN
MAY 18, 2023

Honda recently announced two new hydrogen projects spanning both fuel cells and hydrogen-combustion engines.

The automaker on Monday confirmed plans for a fuel-cell heavy-duty truck co-developed with Isuzu, which once sold passenger cars in the U.S. but has now largely retreated into the commercial-vehicle sector. The two companies plan to demonstrate a prototype by next year, with a market launch following in 2027.

While not confirmed for the U.S., this project brings Honda into the ranks of automakers that have shifted to developing fuel-cell semis. Toyota and Hyundai both recently announced plans to broaden fuel-cell semi plans for the U.S., and General Motors in 2021 announced plans to build and support 2,000 fuel-cell semis in concert with truck maker Navistar.

Two days after the fuel-cell semi announcement, Honda also announced a joint effort with other Japanese companies to research hydrogen combustion engines. While fuel cells use gaseous hydrogen to generate electricity to power motors, these engines simply burn it in place of liquid gasoline or diesel.

Honda is working on hydrogen combustion with Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha for products in the "small mobility" sector...

Honda didn't say whether the new partnership, dubbed HySE, would focus specifically on motorcycles, but a company press release said one area of research would involve safeguarding fuel tanks in smaller vehicles. Engine performance and fueling infrastructure will be looked at as well, according to Honda.

As with fuel-cell semi trucks, Honda is following in the tire tracks of rival Toyota. The larger automaker has been using and developing an internal-combustion hydrogen engine for motorsports, and has gone so far as to say that it sees a hydrogen-combustion Corolla Cross as an EV alternative.

Hydrogen combustion has some potential pluses, including the ability to preserve existing internal-combustion car designs, while avoiding the need for the expensive materials of current fuel-cell stacks...

Fuel cells, in contrast, have no "tailpipe" emissions, and analysis indicates their carbon footprint can be made suitably low if hydrogen is produced from green sources. Sourcing of hydrogen will also be a factor in calculating overall emissions from hydrogen combustion engines—with tailpipes then factored in on top of that.

Hydrogen news
Frankfurt to boost presence of hydrogen buses in its city
May 22, 2023 0 By ERIN KILGORE
The German metropolis has ordered more H2 buses from Solaris.
The public transport management company of Frankfurt am Main, In-der-City-Bus GmbH (ICB), has ordered 10 hydrogen buses from European bus and trolleybus manufacturer, Solaris Bus & Coach, with the new order of buses to be added to the ICB fleet in Q1 2024.

The city already has 13 Urbino hydrogen vehicles on its roads.
Frankfurt am Main is one of Germany's largest cities, with ICB operating three bus bundles in the city, accounting for over 50% of Frankfurt's bus services. ICB operates 34 routes, year-round, with a 228-vehicle fleet. Since 2022, 13 of Solaris' Urbino 12 hydrogen buses have been a part of the fleet.
Recently, In-der-City-Bus GmbH settled tender for the purchase of another 10 H2 buses from Solaris, opting for the same hydrogen-powered model as their previous Urbino 12 hydrogen order. The newly contracted H2 buses ...

Thanks for the updates, especially the international perspective. Remember, CNG deployment? It is the playbook for hydrogen as I see it. Fleet and government penetration primarily due to vehicles going home every night so fueling infrastrutcture deployment is viable. Hydrogen is just the next CNG for fleets. Electric EV is the mass winner

Toyota's fuel cell electric powertrain granted zero emission executive order from CARB
April 26, 2023 0 By ANGIE BERGENSON
The executive order certifies Toyota's powertrain kit as a zero-emission powertrain.
Toyota recently announced that its new heavy-duty fuel cell electric powertrain kit has been granted a Zero Emission Powertrain (ZEP) Executive Order from the California Air Resources Board (CARB).


The kit offers a viable alternative to conventional diesel powertrains.
Toyota's heavy-duty hydrogen fuel cell electric powertrain kit includes fuel cell stacks, hydrogen fuel storage tanks, batteries, electric motors and transmission. The kit provides a practical alternative to traditional diesel powertrains currently used in commercial goods transportation for companies seeking to transition the vehicles they use in their fleets to zero-emission trucks.

Toyota's kit being granted a ZEP Executive Order from CARB means that there is now another tool that original equipment manufactures (OEMs) and operators of heavy-duty Class 8 commercial trucks can use to help them comply with California's ever-increasing strict emissions regulations. In other words, qualifying manufactures that use the fuel cell electric powertrain kit will be eligible for incentives.

That's awesome to have an another alternative. It seems quite reasonable that fleets will evaluate and pilot fuel cells in heavy trucking and fueling locations can more easily be installed. Still very few places to do that today, just have to wait to see how it grows.
what's your take on what objective financial calculations report on initial, ongoing operational costs of hydrogen?

Can we retrofit that to those jacked up pickup truck guys who go around "Rolling Coal"?

I see some similarities to the transition from steam to diesel/electric locomotives. No reason it can't be made to work, the trick is making it economically desirable.

Jim

No info yet on pricing, Cummins hydrogen diesel injection retro fit info may soon be available to the public. Similar to CNG, Propane and other retro fit diesel motor injection systems to reduce emissions...

H2 view
Mitsubishi Power awarded EPC contract to develop 600MW hydrogen power plant
By Edward Laity
on May 31, 2023

A consortium including Mitsubishi Power has been awarded an Engineering, Procurement and Construction (EPC) contract to develop a 600MW hydrogen-ready power plant.

The combined cycle power plant (CCPP) will be constructed for Sembcorp Industries' fully owned subsidiary Sembcorp Cogen, expected to be operational by 2026 and located at Sembcorp's anticipated multi-utilities centre on Jurong Island, Singapore.

The plant will be capable of increasing hydrogen blending percentages with minimal existing infrastructure modifications.

The consortium awarded the EPC contract includes Mitsubishi Power, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Jurong Engineering Limited (JEL).

Mitsubishi will supply a M701 JAC gas turbine, an air-cooled version of Mitsubishi Power's leading J Series gas turbine, along with the steam turbine and other main accessory equipment.

The company was also awarded a long-term service agreement for the maintenance of the plants major equipment, whilst JEL will provide the construction and Balance of Plant.

Koh Chiap Khiong, CEO of Singapore and Southeast Asia at Sembcorp, said, "The development of the new power plant will improve the performance of our power generation assets on Jurong Island and pave the way for reduction of carbon emissions through hydrogen fuel blending."

Takao Tsukui, Executive Vice President of Mitsubishi Power, added, "As the energy industry evolves, it is essential that we prioritise low-carbon alternatives such as hydrogen for power generation."

Stumbled across this.

Might be a future retrofit option.

https://www.allisontransmission.com/ev-solutions/egen-power (https://www.allisontransmission.com/ev-solutions/egen-power)

Peter

Interesting, a fuel cell with hydrogen motor generator, will fill up at the hydrogen pump, like the speed of a fill up with diesel or CNG...

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/carb-passes-new-use-locomotive-regulation-estimated-yield-over-32-billion-health-benefits-0

This is worse than EV
Additionally, switch, industrial and passenger locomotives built in 2030 or after will be required to operate in zero-emissions configurations while in California, and in 2035 for freight line haul.
To keep OT, what will be the fuel - hydrogen? how about batteries? lol

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen cars get a boost with Toyota, Hino, Daimler Truck, Mitsubishi Fuso MoU
June 7, 2023 1 By JOHN MAX
The companies have come together in an historic Memorandum of Understanding signing.
The development of hydrogen cars just got an important shot in the arm as Toyota Motor Company, Hino Motors Ltd., Daimler Truck Holding AG, and Mitsubishi Fuso Truck and Bus Corporation (MFTBC) recently signed a groundbreaking Memorandum of Understanding (MoU).


The companies will be focusing on accelerating the development of advanced technologies.
Along with placing a greater focus on pooling their resources to develop technologies such as hydrogen cars, the MoU is also a part of the merging of Hino and MFTBC. First and foremost, the collaboration's goal is for carbon neutrality and to encourage a prosperous mobility society. It will be looking in particular at advancing Connected/Autonomous & Automated/Shared/Electric (CASE) technologies as well as the enhancement of the global commercial vehicle business.

The merge between Hino and MFTBC will occur under a new holding company. Within that holding company, each of the original businesses will have equal investment powers.

The nature of the MoU is designed to form and enhance commercial vehicle development, procurement and development. This could provide Japanese commercial vehicle manufacturing a boost in terms of global competition. Toyota and Daimler Truck will each be making equal investments into the new holding entity of the merged companies.

The companies will also work together on hydrogen cars and other CASE technology development.
By working on H2 development and that of other CASE technologies, they intend to boost the new company's competitiveness.

Quote from: windtrader on June 05, 2023, 08:36:41 PM
This is worse than EV
Additionally, switch, industrial and passenger locomotives built in 2030 or after will be required to operate in zero-emissions configurations while in California, and in 2035 for freight line haul.
To keep OT, what will be the fuel - hydrogen? how about batteries? lol

Hydrogen power for trains are more advanced than the truck and passenger cars lol it is just a big engine running a generator, Caterpillar is big in Hydrogen power generators

Yahoo Finance

PR Newswire
Hyzon Motors, Inc. Announces First Quarter 2023 Financial and Operational Results
June 8, 2023, 3:00 am
ROCHESTER, N.Y., June 8, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Hyzon Motors Inc. (NASDAQ: HYZN) ("Hyzon" or the "Company"), a high-power hydrogen fuel cell technology developer and global supplier of zero-emission heavy-duty fuel cell electric vehicles ("FCEVs"), announced its first quarter 2023 financial results and provided a business update.


Refocused the Company's core mission on the development and production of single stack 200kW fuel cell systems, commercialized via streamlined heavy-duty vehicle platforms.

Upgraded management team with addition of Chief Operating Officer ("COO") and Chief Human Resources Officer ("CHRO"); restructured and integrated global vehicle and technology functions, to drive increased performance, efficiency and accountability across the Company.

Produced and tested three single stack 200kW hydrogen fuel cell systems in U.S., with first 200kW prototype FCEV under testing; accumulated over 2,000 miles as of June 2023.

Published whitepaper Designing the Future of Fuel Cells, describing design and performance advantages of Hyzon's single stack 200kW fuel cell system and supporting intellectual property ("IP").

Signed the first commercial agreement in U.S. with Performance Food Group ("PFG") with the potential for up to 50 trucks upfit with Hyzon's proprietary fuel cell systems.
About Hyzon Motors Inc.
Hyzon is a global supplier of fuel cell electric mobility, with US operations in the Rochester, Chicago and Detroit areas, and international operations in the Netherlands, Australia, and China. Hyzon is an energy transition accelerator and technology innovator, providing solutions in the transport sector with a focus on commercial vehicles and hydrogen supply infrastructure. Utilizing its proprietary hydrogen fuel cell technology, Hyzon's mission is to supply zero-emission heavy duty trucks to customers in North America, Europe and around the world to mitigate emissions from diesel transportation - one of the single largest sources of carbon emissions globally. The Company is contributing to the adoption of fuel cell electric vehicles through its demonstrated technology advantage, fuel cell performance and history of rapid innovation.

Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen News – Green Hydrogen

Plug Power analyst day unveilings include mobile hydrogen refueler solution
Plug Power analyst day unveilings include mobile hydrogen refueler solution
June 23, 2023 2 By TAMI HOOD

The company also announced pedestal customer and electrolyzer deals at the same time.
Plug Power's recent analyst presentation came with a list of unveilings that offer new hydrogen refueler, electrolyzer and pedestal customer deals.


This could mean considerable potential in the green energy market and to the company's growth.
Throughout the analyst day event, Plug Power's management team shared a slew of updates regarding the company's forecasts for 2030 and its growth opportunities that will help it to reach those projected targets. They placed the spotlight on the operational scale of its manufacturing facilities, but what was potentially most interesting were the announcements about new products and deals.

First out of the gate was the unveiling of its new mobile hydrogen refueler solution, called the HL 1500. That solution was described as being its own self-contained fueling station, but one that was "on wheels". That solution had a capacity of 1,500 kilograms.


The mobile hydrogen refueler is designed to shrink the cost of infrastructure, among other benefits.


Among Plug Power's other announcements included securing a 5-megawatt electrolyzer system deal with Avina Clean Hydrogen Inc. That system will provide an H2 production facility with core support for serving a southern Californian commercial mobility sector. This represents the first time an H2 production facility will be angled for use for heavy-duty trucks within that region.

Hydrogen fuel news
Rolls-Royce is thinking about making some EVs into hydrogen cars

June 20, 2023 2 By TAMI HOOD
The company's CEO has stated that the automaker is thinking that it "might exit batteries."
Rolls-Royce is thinking about stepping away from typical battery electric vehicles in favor of hydrogen cars once H2 technology has improved enough for mainstream use at scale.

The automaker has been focused on developing battery electric vehicles as its zero-emission offering.
The latest Rolls-Royce Spectre made its way into the spotlight earlier this month at Villa d'Este in Italy for its European debut. That model is the first electric vehicle from the UK-based automaker and is expected to begin production in September. It will boast one of the largest batteries any production car has ever held, at 120kWh.The vehicle's range is said to be over 300 miles, with rapid charging at 195kW.

That said, Torsten Müller-Ötvös, Rolls-Royce CEO, has said that the unique positioning of the company and the average owner's specialized use case means that it is possible to consider hydrogen cars as a technology with true potential for the future.
In a recent Autocar report, Müller-Ötvös explained that he viewed fuel cells as the way to go,..."

Air Liquide and Iveco Group open Europe's first high-pressure hydrogen station for trucksJune 30, 2023 0 By ALICIA MOORE

The two companies are paving the way for long-haulage H2-powered mobility in Europe.

The recent inauguration of the first high-pressure hydrogen station for long-haul trucks is the first refueling station of its kind in Europe. It marks a step forward in Air Liquide and Iveco Group's joint commitment to develop hydrogen mobility in the continent.

This commitment is in line with the MoU the companies signed in December 2021.

The goal of the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) is to advance hydrogen as a vital enabler for the energy transition of the transport sector by leveraging the expertise of both companies.

This includes Air Liquide's unique expertise across the entire H2 value chain – production, storage, and distribution – and IVECO's (commercial vehicle brand of Iveco Group) manufacturing of alternative fuel vehicles.

"Our strategy for increasingly sustainable mobility is based on a technology-neutral approach and hydrogen mobility is a key building block on this path," said Iveco Group CEO Gerrit Marx in a news release about the inauguration of the hydrogen station. "In fact, it provides an essential solution for high energy demanding commercial vehicle applications, such as long-haul transport," Marx added.

At the hydrogen station inauguration, guests saw an IVECO H2 truck prototype.

Air Liquide's high-pressure hydrogen refueling station opened in Fos-sur-Mer (Marseille), France on June 26, 2023. Guests who attended the inauguration had the opportunity to visit the large-capacity high-pressure station that is supplied with 1 ton of low-carbon hydrogen a day via pipeline. They were also given a first-hand look at an IVECO heavy-duty fuel cell truck prototype.

Hydrogen fuel news:
Toyota to use waste to hydrogen in project with Thailand's CP Group
July 1, 2023 0 By BRET WILLIAMS
The automaker is testing equipment for a project to use biogas from Charoen Pokphand Group.
Toyota Motor recently announced that it will be launching a waste to hydrogen project in Thailand starting in November. It plans to work with Thai conglomerate Charoen Pokphand Group, which will supply biogas for H2 production to help decarbonize the Thai transport sector.

Toyota will be installing equipment that will use CP biogas to produce H2 south of Bangkok.
Through this project, the automaker will be installing waste to hydrogen equipment at its Asia-Pacific headquarters located south of Bangkok in Samut Prakan province. It will use biogas to produce the H2. The biogas will be produced by chicken manure from CP Group operated poultry farms. It will also be sourced from food waste from the cafeteria at the Toyota regional headquarters.

OK, let's do this then... We fit all cows with a fart collector so we can convert their methane production into hydrogen gas. Perfect renewable source that will satisfy all our energy requirements as far into the future as we can project.

Jim

Well well. Now, the debate is about how much fresh water it takes to produce hydrogen. It seems the government just needs to send a free bike to everyone and collect all motor vehicles.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.1c01375

Publication Date:August 17, 2021
https://doi.org/10.1021/acsenergylett.1c01375
Copyright © 2021 American Chemical Society

This article was from Aug 2021.
Since this time there have been major changes in obtaining hydrogen processes, everything from electrolysis, to leaf mimicking evaporation, with more types soon to arrive, as I have shown in articles I have quoted...

Hydrogen fuel news
Fleet News: Hydrogen Buses Make Their Debut on British Roads
July 7, 2023 1 By ERIN KILGORE
The H2 passenger buses are manufactured by Wrightbust and are part of Go-Ahead Group's fleet.

Go-Ahead Group, a leading bus and rail operator in Britain, recently announced the launch of its pioneering fleet of hydrogen buses, which will be deployed to carry passengers on routes in the Crawley, Horley and Gatwick Airport area.

The fleet will consist of 54 fuel cell buses.
At present, only 20 hydrogen fuel cell buses will be deployed. However, once the remaining 34 hydrogen buses are fully delivered, there will be a total of 54 vehicles, making it one of the largest hydrogen bus fleets in the nation.

The zero-emission buses manufactured by Wrightbus are the first in Go-Ahead's over 6,000 fleet of buses to be powered by hydrogen. They are capable of carrying heavy loads and covering long ranges, making them ideal for local routes around the intensively used Gatwick area, as they can operate 24 hours a day, all year long.

Good to hear. Fleet deployments make a lot of sense until the fueling infrastructure gets buiilt out beyond hubs.

Man 10,500 views I never saw that before ,I have seen more responses, guessing a alternative fuel is on some peoples mind

H2 news
Nikola and Bosch partner up to create improved fuel cell truck
July 20, 2023 0 By JULIE CAMPBELL
The companies are working together to take the Tre long haul vehicle to the next level in H2.
Nikola and Bosch have announced that they plan to work together to create a new and improved fuel cell truck, pointing to a firm belief in the strength of a future H2 economy.

The companies will have their engineers working as a team to upgrade the current Nikola Tre.
Bosch recently used its entire Tech Day 2023 to focus on its plans to move forward with a fuel cell truck and other green hydrogen technologies, such as Bosch's new renewable H2 water treatment system.

Bosch is hardly new to zero-emission vehicles. It has already been contributing powerful technology for the electric vehicle industry. As a result, it's not too surprising that it is now making its way into H2 technology.

What has truly caught people's attention is that it has chosen to work with Nikola. That company's Tre Class-8 long-haul truck was a project that first launched in 2017. At that time, the companies announced that they would be working together to develop the powertrain through the use of Bosch's modular and scalable all-in-one eAxle. They expected production to start by 2021.

The hydrogen fuel cell truck experienced a delay in its launch when Nikola faced issues in 2020.
That setback didn't last very long, though. Nikola and Bosch once again announced that they would be working together in September of 2021, as Nikola would be building fuel cell power modules for Bosch at its Arizona factory. These would be used for Nikola's Class 7 and Class 8 fuel cell truck models. This was to start with the Tre Class 8, which had a 500-mile range. It would then expand to the Nikola Tre Class 8, with its 900-mile range...

That said, next up will be the United States. Beyond the ongoing work Bosch is doing with Nikola, it also has intentions for vehicles in South Carolina. In fact, the recent press release was an official confirmation that the South Carolina facility will be manufacturing the fuel cell stacks for hydrogen-powered vehicles...

Interesting to note that while hydrogen may be feasible for large vehicles, the lower density is not enough to make it's use in smaller vehicles practical since the required fuel volume is something on the order of 5-10 times as much as is needed with gasoline, essentially leaving no space for cargo.

Jim

I've seen fuel cell vehicles running around here, no surprise being Sacramento, eco-politics central. Google some images of the Toyota Mirai and Huyandai Nexo. https://carbuzz.com/cars/hydrogen-cars. From the images it seems there is reasonable trunk and hatch storage. Hard to tell how the larger fuel storage is tucked into the body. Take a look at this chart, confirms increase fuel capacity but with the much higher MPG why is the range so low?

They will play with the numbers to get the best marketing. Can't trust those kind of people, as they will say anything to get you to bite. Need actual real world results.

Jim

Hydrogen bus explodes during refueling

(https://images-global.nhst.tech/image/ZzNHRU1SZE10TEJhNm9rck5TYlNyQXhWVU9tMFJNbVNpNHRkdnYvc0U3dz0=/nhst/binary/b471347e12f6f7a69cdffeff5cc9f3c5?image_version=640)

https://thedriven.io/2023/07/21/explosions-were-heard-hydrogen-bus-destroyed-by-fire-while-refuelling/ (https://thedriven.io/2023/07/21/explosions-were-heard-hydrogen-bus-destroyed-by-fire-while-refuelling/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2qfQ6l6k0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U2qfQ6l6k0)

CarDover
Home » Data & Research

How Many Gasoline Cars Catch Fire Every Year
Last Updated
November 25, 2022
Data & Research
Quick Answer

How Many Gasoline Cars Catch Fire Every Year

There are an estimated 284,130 gasoline cars that catch fire every year

Data Last Checked: November 19, 2022


You may be surprised to learn how many gasoline cars catch fire each year. According to our analysis of data found in the National Fire Protection Association, Reuters, and U.S. fire departments, there are an estimated 284,130 gasoline cars that catch fire every year.

These vehicle fires account for an estimated 480 deaths, 1,525 injuries, and $1.3 billion in property damage annually in the United States.

Quote from: lvmci on July 25, 2023, 08:21:04 AM
CarDover
Home » Data & Research

How Many Gasoline Cars Catch Fire Every Year
Last Updated
November 25, 2022
Data & Research
Quick Answer

How Many Gasoline Cars Catch Fire Every Year

There are an estimated 284,130 gasoline cars that catch fire every year

Data Last Checked: November 19, 2022


You may be surprised to learn how many gasoline cars catch fire each year. According to our analysis of data found in the National Fire Protection Association, Reuters, and U.S. fire departments, there are an estimated 284,130 gasoline cars that catch fire every year.

These vehicle fires account for an estimated 480 deaths, 1,525 injuries, and $1.3 billion in property damage annually in the United States.

Ah I hear you, given the number of gasoline cars that are running around out there. But very, very few hydrogen vehicles. So for sometime to come every such event will make national news just like light airplane crashes...

So what are the relative percentages? For that particular transit company it's kinda close to 10%.

Jim

Hydrogen fuel news:
July 22, 2023 0 By FRANKIE WALLACE
Fortescue Future Industries Acquires Phoenix Hydrogen Hub, Boosting Green Energy and Job Creation
In a significant stride towards the advancement of green energy, Fortescue Future Industries (FFI), a global leader in renewable energy and green products, has announced its acquisition of Nikola Corporation's Phoenix Hydrogen Hub (PHH) project. This move marks a major step in FFI's mission to decarbonize hard-to-abate sectors like transport and create hundreds of green industrial jobs in America.

Buckeye's Phoenix Hydrogen Hub Set to Accelerate Green Hydrogen Production
The PHH project, located in Buckeye, Arizona, is primed to be a linchpin in the production of green hydrogen, a clean energy source that holds immense potential for reducing carbon emissions. FFI's investment in the PHH will not only accelerate the production of green hydrogen but also pave the way for the creation of new green industrial jobs...

The problem with low sample size is statistics are not representative. 1 in 10 is 10% but far less indicative than 100 in a 1000. Either way, thanks for posting Fred. I think I'd rather be in an e-bus rather than hydrogen if it decides to light up. Hopefully, more time to get out.

It is already being done... :^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAEhhYqMEBE

Great video Dave...

Yeah but where are you going to put that tank in your Miata?

Jim

Trailer ? Ya the only negative would be figure out a tank the fits. Because that pickup is nice but you could not use the bed for much.

Quote from: Dave5Cs on July 30, 2023, 07:39:08 AM
Trailer ? Ya the only negative would be figure out a tank the fits. Because that pickup is nice but you could not use the bed for much.

A real close friend of mine sold a fire engine red Ford Lightning PU super charged ICE.  It had 40K on it and the bed looked brand new so he'd probably love to have that PU especially if it could out run the ICE in the 1/4 mile :^

Awesome video showing it is scientifically possible. For the everyday DIY garage motorhead, I can not even begin to think how many zeros it would take on a check to build one yourself. This guy is totally networked into the auto industry so he could do it and that is wonderful; otherwise, it would not have happened.
It does show it can be done. Did you catch the comment that only CA has commercial hydrogen fueling stations, so even if you can build one in 49 states, you have no way to fuel it. And like he said the huge retailers run their hi-lo on hydrogen that is created by their own hydrogen generators.

It is exciting but my eye is still on doing a retro EV project someday. not new, well proven, and incredible results.

Latest Motorcoach World live video on you tube "stuck in Tucson", "...every charging station we've been to has problems..." plus the buses charging electronics broke, while charging his all electric VahHool from ABC bus...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen Vehicle Systems has a plan that could kick hydrogen HGV transition into high gearAugust 2, 2023 0 By ALICIA MOORE
The hydrogen company's strategy identifies five key points.
Hydrogen Vehicle Systems (HVS) has unveiled a five-point plan that outlines the necessary key steps to make widespread adoption of hydrogen-powered heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) a reality, as well as a call to action to propel the transition to an H2 (hydrogen fuel) economy.

HVS' roadmap aims to drive the industry forward and enable more rapid decarbonization.
The zero-emission commercial vehicles innovator, which is revolutionizing the goods delivery sector with its new hydrogen fuel cell HGV, wants greater clarity from governments and legal authorities on detailed timescales that are supported by policy incentives to encourage the early adoption of hydrogen HGVs.
More specifically, Hydrogen Vehicle Systems is calling for legislation changes, subsidies for green hydrogen production, job training support, and commitments to infrastructure development.
The hydrogen company hopes that the roadmap it has identified will accelerate the decarbonization of the goods delivery sector and help the United Kingdom to meet its net-zero targets.

The five key areas identified by the company include:
Incentives – Governments need to implement a package of support measures that not only provide operators with incentives (e.g. financial support, emissions-based vehicle purchasing, etc.), but also provide clarity on the actual costs involved to encourage confidence in new fleet investments.
Legislation and regulatory framework changes – Governments and local authorities need to provide clear commitments to support the industry's transition by setting ambitious carbon reduction targets and adopting goals specific to the sector.
Green hydrogen production – Hydrogen Vehicle Systems wants the UK Government to boost support for increased renewable energy production and channel these efforts into producing green hydrogen, which will enable infrastructure investors to scale-up and drive down hydrogen fuel costs, lowering the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) for hydrogen HGVs.Infrastructure – The scalable rollout of hydrogen refueling stations is a must. To start, HVS says that as few as seven strategically located hydrogen stations would be needed to serve the majority of HGV movements in the motorway distribution network. These stations could first be mobile and then later fixed to a location once demand grows.
STEM skilled workforce and training – To support the transition, Hydrogen Vehicle Systems believes that training and education programs are essential to establish a capable workforce at both the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) and tier 1 supplier levels. Investment in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) cultivates and promotes R&D initiatives as well as offers opportunities for academia, industry
"Change in this market is not happening quickly enough – which is why, today, we are unveiling this five-point plan, outlining a roadmap that will accelerate the transition to hydrogen HGV fleets," said Hydrogen Vehicle Systems CEO Jawad Khursheed.

Dang there is yet another color hydrogen named "White"...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/12/prospectors-hit-the-gas-in-the-hunt-for-white-hydrogen?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1 (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/12/prospectors-hit-the-gas-in-the-hunt-for-white-hydrogen?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1)

It would still have to be captured and transported. Though I would think it would be more useful to decarbonize steel production which would be a limited number of destinations. Rather then trying to use it as a motor fuel.

Hydrogen fuel news
The Netherlands renewable hydrogen plan gets green light from the European Commission
August 8, 2023 0 By ALICIA MOORE
The Dutch have their sights set on green hydrogen development.
A €246 million Dutch plan to support renewable hydrogen production and the construction of a minimum 60 megawatt (MW) electrolysis capacity in the Netherlands, has been approved by the European Commission (EC).


The plan is in line with the EU Hydrogen Strategy and the European Green Deal.
The goal of the Netherlands renewable hydrogen plan is to contribute to the development of green hydrogen in line with goals that have already been set by the EU Hydrogen Strategy and the European Green Deal.

Additionally, the measure will contribute to the RePowerEu Plan goals to speed up the green energy transition and end dependence on Russian fossil fuels.

Hydrogen Fuel News
Israeli Innovators Unleash Green Hydrogen Production Using Factory Waste
August 15, 2023 1 By TAMI HOOD
The team of scientists say they were able to use this material to make H2 without toxic byproducts.
A research team from Sami Shamoon College of Engineering in Israel have developed a new green hydrogen production process using stainless steel powder.

The process uses H2 trapping and the researchers say solar energy could boost production capacity.
Green hydrogen is made in a process devoid of Carbon dioxide emissions," said Dr. Guy Ben Hamu, research team head. "We add a stainless steel powder to water then and through an electrochemical process produce hydrogen. We do not introduce any other energy to the water and the hydrogen is released from it spontaneously. In order to produce a large amount, solar energy can be added, and then more hydrogen can be produced in a short span of time.

Quote from: lvmci on August 15, 2023, 12:24:49 PM
Hydrogen Fuel News
Israeli Innovators Unleash Green Hydrogen Production Using Factory Waste
August 15, 2023 1 By TAMI HOOD
Green hydrogen is made in a process devoid of Carbon dioxide emissions," said Dr. Guy Ben Hamu, research team head. "We add a stainless steel powder to water then and through an electrochemical process produce hydrogen. We do not introduce any other energy to the water and the hydrogen is released from it spontaneously. In order to produce a large amount, solar energy can be added, and then more hydrogen can be produced in a short span of time.

Again what is source and how is it transported for actually use? There's a big reason that SpaceX with methane rather then hydrogen in their new big @$# rocket...

BP throws support behind industry-disrupting green hydrogen tech
August 17, 2023 0 By JOHN MAX
BP ventures is Advanced Ioncis' lead investor in a $12.5 million Series A financing.
BP ventures' (bp's venture capital arm) investment in the green hydrogen start-up will accelerate the growth and deployment of Advanced Ionics' low-cost Symbion™ electrolyzer technology for heavy industry.

The new funding will help give green H2 use in heavy industry a boost.
In addition to bp ventures, other investors that contributed to Advanced Ionics $12.5 million Series A Financing include Clean Energy Ventures, GVP Climate, and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

The funding will be used to expand and facilitate the initial deployment of Advanced Ionics' Symbion™ water vapor electrolyzer technology – a new category of hydrogen electrolyzers highly valuable for expanding green hydrogen production – for heavy industry.

I think cars are going electric, a done deal. Where the big win in hydrogen is replacing coal fired power plants. More investments needed here and surely with enough political pressure, industry will get the push to transition. Some are against government involvement but incentives can encourage and speed the switch.

Clark County. Las Vegas metropolitain RTC Introduces Hydrogen-Powered Bus

Transportation officials celebrated Southern Nevada's first hydrogen-powered buses by toasting with glasses of water — the engines' only emission — from the vehicles' tailpipes.

The two buses, built by New Flyer, are equipped with tanks of hydrogen and an electric fuel cell. The cell generates power through a reaction between the hydrogen and oxygen that produces water vapor as its only byproduct.

Regional Transportation Commission CEO M.J. Maynard said the vehicles were the first of 16 the commission plans to purchase by 2025 with the help of $18 million in federal funding. The first two buses were largely funded via a $3.8 million Low or No Emission Grant from the Department of Transportation that covered 95% of the cost of equipment, infrastructure and training for the new technology, officials said.

"The grant funding is there, so the goal is to ensure that our entire fleet is either electric or hydrogen," Maynard said. "The biggest challenge right now is ... getting the buses, because everybody wants to do it."

Maynard said the commission started investigating the switch to hydrogen fuel cell buses about three years ago and planned to replace all of its roughly 400 large buses with either electric or hydrogen buses by 2050.
One hydrogen-powered bus costs about $1.2 million; electric buses cost about $1 million, she said.
"Buying the bus is the easy part. It's really looking for those federal grant opportunities for the needed infrastructure," she said.

Paul Soubry, CEO of New Flyer, said the fuel cell and its cooling system add less weight to a bus' structure than electric batteries do. The buses can be refueled with hydrogen in about seven minutes, he said.

It's happening but even fleet rollouts struggle with infrastructure. EV gets the win for cars due to the head start and the high costs and complexity of hydrogen fueling.

Hydrogen Fuel News
New interagency hydrogen task force launched by Biden-Harris Administration
August 24, 2023 2 By JOHN MAX
The goal is to build a clean hydrogen economy.
The Biden-Harris Administration has launched an interagency hydrogen task force under which federal agencies will coordinate hydrogen-related efforts across various areas, including improved outreach with tribal communities and other communities historically underserved.

The task force is designed to advance the administration's "whole of government" clean H2 approach.
The Biden-Harris Administration has thrown a lot of support behind clean hydrogen, which is expected to play a vital role in the U.S.' transition to a decarbonized energy system. And will be especially helpful to industrial, chemical processes, heavy transportation and other high-polluting sectors that are difficult to decarbonize.

The hydrogen task force, which was announced during a recent webinar by White House deputy national climate advisor, Mary Frances Repko, will be co-chaired by Repko and deputy secretary of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), David Turk.

Hydrogen fuel news
The world's cheapest green hydrogen will likely come from a NewHydrogen innovation
August 25, 2023 9 By ERIN KILGORE
Article Discusses:
NewHydrogen, Inc. partners with UC Santa Barbara for green hydrogen research.
Thermochemical approach used, employing heat instead of electricity.
The method could lower costs compared to traditional electrolysis methods.
The technology involves using molten liquids in a single redox chemical loop.
The system, named NewHydrogen ThermoLoop™, aims for high efficiency and low temperatures.
The company believes the technology could disrupt the hydrogen industry by reducing production costs significantly.
The California company is improving H2 production efficiency with its disruptive tech.
NewHydrogen, Inc. (OTC: NEWH) announced it has entered a research agreement with University of California, Santa Barbara and is working with a team of UC Santa Barbara experts to develop a more efficient way to split water into cheap green hydrogen using a thermochemical approach.

Everyone talks about producing hydrogen. But they would have to be the next Exon or BP to do it at anywhere near affordable.

Screw that let's go electric and mosey around 100-200 miles per day!!!

Quote from: freds on September 01, 2023, 07:59:44 PM
Everyone talks about producing hydrogen. But they would have to be the next Exon or BP to do it at anywhere near affordable.

Screw that let's go electric and mosey around 100-200 miles per day!!!

It is going to take electricity to produce hydrogen where is that going to come from on a grid that cannot keep up with current demands,we can park all the EV's huh   

The perpetual motion guys have been trying for centuries to split water cheaper than the power it produces when recombined. Ain't gonna happen. I don't give a weasel's patootie what method you use. Catalyst, heat, lightning, microwave, solar flares, it just doesn't matter. The best that can ever be hoped for it to approach parity but they are never going to get over that physics hump. Anybody saying they can is just promoting snake oil.

It would make more sense to claim they were pulling power out of another dimension, and be just about as believable.

Jim

Hydrogen fuel  news
Hyzon's 1st Liquid Hydrogen Electric Truck Wows in Demo
September 4, 2023 4 By ERIN KILGORE
The demo was carried out with Performance Food Group and Chart Industries.
Hyzon Motors Inc. (NASDAQ: HYZN), Performance Food Group, Inc. (NYSE: PFGC) and Chart Industries, Inc. (NYSE: GTLS) together announced that the first commercial run of Hyzon's liquid hydrogen fuel cell electric truck (LH2 FCEV) was successfully completed, demonstrating viability of liquid H2 for commercial trucking applications and confirming diesel-comparable range potential.
The truck traveled over 540 miles on a 16-hour continuous run.
Hyzon Motor's commercial demo of its liquid hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle began its run in Temple, Texas and completed deliveries to eight Performance Food Group (PFG) customers near Dallas, Texas.

The liquid H2 truck traveled more than 540 miles in summer temperatures that climbed over 100-degrees Fahrenheit. Its continuous run took about 16 hours and was further than the distance from Sacrament to San Diego, California. The successful completion of the demo showed the viability of on-board liquid H2 to fuel long-distance, zero-emissions transport.

Ok they drove at 34 MPH in order to make the distance?

The hours and milage doesn't add up to me  from Temple to Dallas is a hour and a half about 125 miles, drove that route many times.PFC is supplier to restaurants they make a lot of stops to unload 34 mph average doesn't sound all that bad

It was a delivery truck making multiple stops.

Quote from: dtcerrato on September 12, 2023, 01:58:46 AM
It was a delivery truck making multiple stops.

That what they do Dan deliver food to restaurants, Hydrogen will be here long before electric buses and trucks get to be dependable,Musk trucks cannot even deliver potato chips for Frito/Lay without problems ,took us years to get rid of the electric trolleys and now we are going back

Quote from: luvrbus on September 12, 2023, 04:02:25 AM
took us years to get rid of the electric trolleys and now we are going back

The most extreme wrong turn in transportation and energy policy was the nearly instant abandoning and destruction of the mass transit systems. It really pains me to see how such a vast and non-replaceable infrastructure including right of ways along the most beneficial routes just vaporized when ICE bloomed onto the scene. Thanks Henry Ford for bring cars to the masses. not

Toyota is working to stand out in the congested hydrogen trucks market
September 14, 2023 1 By JULIE CAMPBELL hydrogen fuel news...
The company has been pushing hard for H2 fuel cells and is now entering an already busy ecosystem.
Toyota is easily among the automakers making the most noise about the promise of fuel cells in transportation and is now diving straight into hydrogen trucks in a way that would be impossible to avoid noticing.
Though these vehicles have yet to reach mainstream use, they are increasingly seen as the future of trucking.
As the world aims to decarbonize, hydrogen trucks offer a carbon emission-free option with the expected range, performance and refueling time that the industry already expects. Though there are challenges to transitioning to this energy option as well, new solutions are emerging and the cost associated with green hydrogen – that is, H2 produced using renewable energy without releasing carbon emissions into the atmosphere – are sustainably falling.

Many of Toyota's top headlines with respect to the use of this technology has been its focus on H2-powered cars. This is what brought about the two generations of the Mirai, a sedan using a fuel cell to power an electric motor...
...This complete package means that Toyota's focus on hydrogen trucks isn't just on vehicles that have been originally made to run on H2. Instead, the automaker is also strategically focusing on drawing bus and truck makers that already have established diesel vehicle manufacturing. Toyota plans to begin producing the kits before the close of 2023. They will be manufactured in the company's Kentucky factory.
New partnerships
Toyota has been placing a high focus on building new partnerships for the use of its kit. This includes partnerships with Peterbilt and Kenworth. Each of those companies are PACCAR branches. That firm is a recipient of a US Department of Energy "Super Truck 3" program grant for the construction of hydrogen trucks.

Public and private enterprises. Public is well, public so all it's fuinding comes from taxes or other intergovernment transfers. It's going to take extra funds to increase the fueling network as well as the conversion to H2 or funds to purchase new vehicles.

Private for profit enterrprises are going to make it pencil out and that will likely require supplemental government funding to make the numbers work.
Living in Sacramento, I am tuned into the various alternate vehicle initiatives as I see the building where all the majors have done intiial testing and development. The big question is with plenty of government support policies and funds, it did not catch here. I believe CA is the only state in the USA where one can refuel hydrogen beyond captive uses such as transit systems. Why did it fail and what has changed that answers common sense skepitism?

Hydrogen Fuel News
ANGI and Nikola's Dynamic Alliance for a Robust Hydrogen Fuel Network
September 18, 2023 0 By JOHN MAX
The companies will be working together to install and commission the locations across the US.
ANGI Energy Systems (a Vontier company) and Nikola Corporation have entered into an agreement in which they will install new hydrogen fuel infrastructure solutions through Nikola's HYLA brand.

The collaboration is meant to help advance the availability of Nikola's H2 decarbonization ecosystem.
ANGI will seek to provide Nikola's plan with the support it needs to lay out the largest open network of commercial hydrogen fuel stations in North America. It will do so by installing technically advanced H2 dispensers under the HYLA brand. The dispensers will be designed to be the first HD-ready solutions in the industry. They will provide heavy-duty vehicles with high flow refueling. This network expansion is a component of a broader partnership with Voltera, a leading critical infrastructure provider. The goal is to provide the infrastructure necessary for transportation decarbonization.

Many industry experts say that using H2 is notably more appropriate for heavier-duty commercial vehicles because of the lower weight, faster refueling time, and better energy efficiency. H2-powered vehicles are under development by the majority of leading global truck manufacturers. According to data from the Hydrogen Council, there are over 130 H2 models that will have been assembled by the close of this year. Most of those will be commercial vehicles.

Hydrogen fuel news
Solaris to deliver biggest order of hydrogen fuel buses to Europe
September 18, 2023 0 By ERIN KILGORE
The record order of Solaris H2 buses has been made by TPER.
The municipal transport operator TPER in the city of Bologna, Italy, will purchase as many as 130 hydrogen fuel buses from the Polish bus maker, with TPER having the option to extend the order by an extra 140 vehicles...
...The Urbino 12 hydrogen bus is powered by a 70-kilowatt fuel cell system that is powered by hydrogen stored in five Type-IV composite tanks located on the bus's roof. The tanks can hold as much as 37.5 kilograms of hydrogen, allowing the bus to cover approximately 350 kilometers (217.48 miles).

As previously reported by Hydrogen Fuel News, Solaris has two models of Urbino buses, the Urbino 12 hydrogen bus, released in 2019, and the Urbino 18 hydrogen bus, released in 2022. Canadian company Ballard Power Systems is a main supplier of the fuel cell engines used by the Solaris hydrogen fuel buses...

autoevolution
Following the EU-funded H2Engine project, between 2020 and 2022, the German company KEYOU developed a solution to convert conventional diesel engines into much cleaner hydrogen. Earlier this year, such a converted engine was used by Mercedes-Benz Special Trucks in a Unimog prototype.

In September, KEYOU started the first deliveries of their 18-tonne truck equipped with a hydrogen engine, based on the Mercedes Benz Actros. The six-cylinder converted diesel engine has a fuel consumption of 7.5 kg H2 / 100 km, and the fuel is supplied via port fuel injection, designed specifically for using hydrogen.
KEYOU claims that efficient lean-burn combustion keeps the NOx levels well below limits, and the converted engine meets Euro VI standards and the new EU's CO2 requirements. As a result, the truck is exempt from truck tolls, saving fleet operators "up to €15,000 in tolls per year."
American corporation Cummins is also providing heavy-duty vehicles with hydrogen internal combustion engines. Their latest product is the X15H hydrogen engine designed to fit heavy-duty trucks up to 44 tonnes, providing an impressive peak torque of 2,600 Nm.

Daimler Truck's GenH2 sets single-hydrogen-fill run record
Fuel cell truck covers 650 miles in overnight run through Germany
Alan Adler
BERLIN — The hydrogen-powered Mercedes-Benz GenH2 fuel cell semi returned to the German capital where it was introduced as a prototype three years ago. This is time it completed a record 650-mile (1,047-kilometer) overnight journey on a single fillup of liquid hydrogen.

Traveling the autobahns from Woerth am Rhein, the home of Daimler's massive truck manufacturing complex that produces 500 primarily diesel trucks a day, to the German capital proved far easier than the final mile. A large red utility truck blocked the scheduled arrival at Ministergarten for 10 minutes after the GenH2 passed the famous Brandenburg Gate that separated communist East Germany from democratic West Germany during the Cold War.

Daimler's video efforts, including a drone, tracked the 88,200-pound tractor-trailer loaded with 55,100 pounds of gravel as it inched along a busy Ebertstrassem, feeding the footage to a large video board erected for the event.

Andreas Gorbach, head of technology for the world's largest truck maker, drove the final miles, deftly squeezing the truck through a narrow gate onto In den Ministergarten as global media video crews scrambled to find angles to capture the arrival.

"People weren't scared the truck would make the 1,000 kilometers. They were scared that I would damage something while driving in," Gorbach said with a laugh during a FreightWaves interview.

Matching a diesel truck's performance — absent the emissions
The record-setting run showed a fuel cell truck could match the long-haul capability of a diesel while emitting only environmentally harmless water vapor.

That's really a significant accomplishment. Bear in mind though that hydrogen is a less power dense fuel so it takes up more space. How much more we haven't been told. Many trucks run at less than full load due to the lighter density of the product being carried so space available for cargo is a consideration. Gravel is a pretty dense cargo. This is why H2 is a better choice for big trucks than for small cars. Still, progress is good.

Jim

Nikola's Landmark Launch of it's Hydrogen Fuel Cell Trucks North America
October 6, 2023 2 By TAMI HOOD
The company celebrated the milestone by way of its HYLA brand in Coolidge, Arizona.
Through its HYLA brand, Nikola Corporation recently achieved a notable milestone when it launched its commercial hydrogen fuel cell truck at its Coolidge, Arizona manufacturing facility.
The company held a celebration with its fleet customers and dealers in attendance.
At the ceremony, fleet customers and Nikola sales and service network dealers were present, as were prominent community and business leaders from nearby Phoenix, in addition to government officials. Naturally, the dedicated Nikola team was also there, each of whom played a critical role in bringing the hydrogen fuel cell truck to this point.

Part of the celebration event involved words from Nikola executives as well as Arizona Commerce Authority President and CEO Sandra Watson. Other components of the event included demonstrations of the truck and of H2, overviews of the sustainability impact, tours of the production line, as well as informal tech Q&As with Nikola engineers regarding the HYLA ecosystem, H2 safety, and the Nikola human machine interface system.
The vehicle boasts a 500-mile (approximately 800 kilometers) range on a full tank and an estimated refueling time as short as 20 minutes. According to Nikola, the vehicle is expected to have one of the longest ranges among all zero-emission Class 8 trucks commercially available.

Many applications
hydrogen news ebookThe company says that the new hydrogen fuel cell truck is highly versatile, with applications including everything from metro-regional truckloads to intermodal truckload and drayage, or even less-than-truckload in some cases of specialized hauling.

This Year for Nikola HYLA Stations
In July, Nikola Corporation, in partnership with Voltera, received a $41.9 million grant from the California Transportation Commission. This funding is to build six heavy-duty HYLA-branded hydrogen fueling stations in Southern California. These stations, part of a larger initiative towards zero-emission transport, will be positioned along busy freight corridors near Los Angeles, San Diego, and the Mojave Desert region.

Power Engineering
Hydrogen
The day has arrived: Here are the recipients of $7 billion in federal hydrogen hub funding

The U.S. Department of Energy made the highly-anticipated announcement for the initiative aimed at scaling up clean hydrogen production, storage, delivery and consumption in the U.S.

The day has arrived: Here are the recipients of $7 billion in federal hydrogen hub funding
(Source: U.S. Department of Energy.)

The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) on Oct. 13 named seven regional clean hydrogen hubs to receive $7 billion in federal funding, a long-awaited announcement for an initiative aimed at accelerating the commercial-scale deployment of clean hydrogen and driving down its cost.
Funded by Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), the seven H2Hubs are located around the U.S. and aim to jumpstart a national network of clean hydrogen producers, consumers and connective infrastructure. Each hub will include clean hydrogen production, storage, delivery and end-use components.

Clean Hydrogen is expected to play a particularly important role in cleaning up hard-to-decarbonize sectors like refining, chemicals and heavy-duty transport.
Another major driver for clean hydrogen: Signed into law last year, the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) includes a suite of tax incentives for project developers and is aimed at jumpstarting the industry. But the U.S. Treasury Department will need to determine how to account for the emissions from electricity used to make electrolytic hydrogen. Read our full primer with different viewpoints from the industry here.

The H2Hubs are expected to collectively produce three million metric tons of hydrogen annually, reaching nearly a third of the 2030 U.S. production target and lowering emissions from these industrial sectors that represent 30 percent of total U.S. carbon emissions...

Added info on the regional hydrogen Hubs:
  The seven hubs will eventually produce 3 million tons of hydrogen per year, or 30% of the national goal DOE has set for 10 million tons of hydrogen produced by 2030. A senior administration official has estimated the hubs will lower the country's planet-warming carbon dioxide pollution by roughly 25 million metric tons per year from end use, roughly equivalent to taking 5.5 million gasoline-powered cars off the road.

DOE's $7 billion investment in the hubs will be met by a combined cost share of more than $40 billion by the awardees.

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen fuel cell bus collaboration begins between Hyundai and Iveco
October 18, 2023  By TAMI HOOD
The partnership is focused on the E-WAY H2 vehicle which was developed jointly.
Hyundai Motor and Iveco Group have collaborated to create a hydrogen fuel cell bus called the E-WAY H2 through a partnership that has now been consolidated and solidified moving forward.

The companies placed their H2 vehicle in the spotlight when they showcased it at Busworld Europe 2023.
The hydrogen fuel cell bus drew substantial attention at the event, which opened in Brussels, Belgium on October 6. It is an additional vehicle in the Hyundai commercial H2-powered lineup following the Elec City and the Universe.

This new vehicle was built with an Iveco 310-kilowatt electric motor combined with Hyundai's cutting edge HTWO fuel cell system to power it.

Quote from: lvmci on October 23, 2023, 12:44:04 PM
This new vehicle was built with an Iveco 310-kilowatt electric motor combined with Hyundai's cutting edge HTWO fuel cell system to power it.

God is this thread never going to die?

Hydrogen is not the answer unless it involves oil companies is some form or another. They are used to manufacturing the fuel and then distributing it to customers with a markup so that they are always profitable. When was the last time you heard of an oil company going under?

All the bus companies that have rear engine motors should get together and come up with a docking station where the battery can be changed out in couple of minutes with a fork lift. Heck do the same with semi-trucks where it is inserted in the front of the truck.

Oil and gas companies are seen as climate villains. Truth is, we'll need their expertise to make green hydrogen a reality
The Conversation
Published: March 1, 2023 2.07pm EST
Murray Shearer, CQUniversity Australia

...Shell just bought into a green hydrogen megaproject in Oman, for instance, where it will be the lead operator. Late last year, BP bought a controlling stake in Australia's largest renewable project, the Asian Renewable Energy Hub. If built in its entirety, this project would generate the equivalent of a third of Australia's 2020 electricity production.
The planned Pilbara renewable megaproject would power mining operations and export green hydrogen...
...Oil and gas majors are well placed to make green hydrogen and green chemicals...
But oil and gas companies are experienced in handling hydrogen. That's because it's widely used in oil refineries to scrub sulphur out of oil and to help crack heavy oil into lighter grades. In fact, it's so useful that most of the world's hydrogen is used in oil production...

If you think for one second that the oil companies are going to let just anybody gain the slightest toehold into the energy market then you really just don't understand how things work. They've got it, and they have everything they need to keep it. It would take a fool not to take advantage of that and the shareholders will not tolerate fools for very long. The single chance any outsider has is in developing a niche market and they had better get everything absolutely right the first time and have extremely solid financing and guidance behind them or it isn't going very far. Alternate energy sources will come and go but it will be the oil companies that own them. All the 3rd parties are going to accomplish is to spur the big guys to action of one sort or another. Might be their own development programs, might be to purchase or subvert those 3rd parties, might be supression or something else entirely. Murder is a time hionored solution as well. Look closely at any new entry which has been successful and you will find either close ties to the existing power structure or extremely deep pockets. I highly doubt any other truly successful exceptions exist.

Jim

If hydrogen does get more push by mandate or market forces, big oil will get in if there is profit. BP and others branched into solar and I'm sure they are kicking tires and small projects in hydrogen and other potential sources of revenue. They know the world is going to reduce petro as the primary source for vehicles in the coming years.

Cummins commitment to Hydrogen ICE engines:
https://youtu.be/WlcgunL6t_I?si=4O2bckJujFdR5pQE

FirstElement Hydrogen Station
https://youtu.be/pNQJ7pu3OGo?si=XMdgEWozkINyE4Yg

Oilprice.com
Plastic Waste Becomes Clean Hydrogen Goldmine
By Haley Zaremba - Oct 26, 2023, 3:00 PM CDT
A study focused on turning waste plastics into high-value graphene just unlocked a new way of producing hydrogen that could transform the nascent industry and, on a grander scale, positively alter projected decarbonization pathways. The breakthrough could be a win-win for the environment, recycling plastic waste - of which the world has approximately 6.3 billion tons - while providing high-yield hydrogen gas which can be used as clean fuel, all while producing graphene as an end product which makes the whole process economically viable. The breakthrough is detailed in a new paper in Advanced Materials...

Until now, the relatively pricey process of creating green hydrogen (as compared to combustible fossil fuels) has been a major barrier for bringing the industry up to a commercial scale. While plenty of hydrogen is already being produced and used in industrial applications, all but a slim fraction of this is gray hydrogen, or hydrogen produced from fossil fuels. Ground breaking research at Rice, said in a press release. "If the produced graphene is sold at only 5 percent of current market value-a 95 percent off sale-clean hydrogen could be produced for free."..

By Alan Ohnsman, Forbes Staff
Hydrogen is a promising form of carbon-free energy, but moving and storing the superlight element is costly and energy-intensive. So a California startup cofounded in 2022 by two leading chemists, including a Nobel laureate, is designing a new type of tank made with nanomaterials that aims to be cheaper and safer than any currently in use — and hold more hydrogen, too.

Irvine, California-based H2MOF hopes to sell its next-generation hydrogen tanks sometime after 2024 to heavy-duty vehicle makers with plans to offer zero-emission fuel cell vehicles. It argues that in addition to holding fuel inside the vehicles, these tanks will also provide a better way to ship the fuel by truck or train as truckmakers transition toward using hydrogen to power carbon-free fleets.

Rather than pumping highly compressed or liquified hydrogen into a conventional tank, H2MOF is designing one that holds the energy-rich fuel in a solid state, adsorbing it into specially engineered nanomaterials. The approach is based on research by two of its cofounders and scientific advisors: Omar Yaghi, a chemistry professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and professor Sir Fraser Stoddart, winner of the Nobel Prize in chemistry in 2016.

If they can pull this one off it'll be even more impressive than when they learned how to store acetylene gas as a liquid attached to acetone, allowing us to use all the low pressure acetylene tanks that we do today. I think there's hardly anyone who would not be impressed by that. The only question is, how much will it cost to produce the nanomaterial that is required to solidify the hydrogen?

Jim

Carscoops
REPORT
Hydrogen, Not Electricity, Could Be The Future Of Everything From Motorsport To Trucking
Both hydrogen-burning combustion engines and hydrogen fuel cells are being touted as better alternatives to battery power in many applications
by Chris Chilton
6 hours ago

Green vehicles mean battery-powered vehicles, right? That's the message we're being fed on a daily basis by most of the world's carmakers as well as the legislators who are introducing zero emissions laws that looks set to kill off combustion engines by proxy.
But having got off to a slow start in the green race, hydrogen power is shifting into high gear, winning fans in industries as varied as motorsport, trucking and plant machinery. And it might even save our beloved combustion engines from extinction.

Hydrogen technology is actually hydrogen technologies, because the fuel offers two possible solutions to companies looking to build clean vehicles and machinery. The one we've probably heard most about over the last 25 years is the hydrogen fuel cell, whereby hydrogen is converted into electricity that powers the vehicle, the only emissions being water.
This is the tech you'll find in cars like the Toyota Mirai, and it's also the answer many in the long-distance trucking industry think is a better bet than battery power for semis, although Tesla would beg to differ.

But hydrogen can also be used in a totally different, and rather familiar way. It can be used as a replacement for gasoline and diesel in combustion engines in everything from racecars to cement mixers, as Automotive News pointed out in a recent article...

Yep. Biggest hurdle right now is energy density, storage and transportation. But if they get that solid hydrogen storage thing going it just might take off. Better keep an eye on that.

Jim

Hydrigen fuel news
November 15, 2023 1 By ERIN KILGORE
The automaker believes zero emissions can be achieved with internal combustion engines.

Clean transportation goes beyond electric batteries, fuel cells, and synthetic fuels, and Toyota is demonstrating this by testing hydrogen ICE (internal combustion engine) in its vehicles, including its HiAce and, it hopes, eventually an H2 Land Cruiser.
The Japanese auto giant is working on adapting ICEs to work with hydrogen.
Toyota recently revealed it's scaling back its hydrogen fuel cell passenger vehicle goals in favor of pursuing H2 commercial vehicles. That said, this hasn't stopped the automaker from exploring the possibility of adapting the traditional internal combustion engine and converting it to run on hydrogen.
So far, the company has tested hydrogen ICE in motorsport events, including in the GR Carolla and the turbocharged 1.6-liter engine of the GR Yaris. Moreover, Toyota has modified its HiAce ICE to run on a hydrogen-burning internal combustion engine instead of one powered by gasoline or diesel...
Hydrogen ICE, a sensible solution for the Toyota Land Cruiser.
The Hydrogen HiAce pilot project in Australia aside, Toyota believes that hydrogen ICE tech makes sense in its Land Cruiser, the off-road SUV, and in big vehicles designed to tow and haul large cargo...

Cummins unveils new L9 Harvest engine at Agritechnica 2023
By Julian Buckley12 November 2023

Cummins has unveiled three of its latest agricultural machine engines at Agritechnica 2023, taking place at Deutsche Messe in Hanover, Germany (12 – 18 November).

The company is showing its B6.7H hydrogen internal combustion engine, the B4.5 Structural tractor engine and the L9 Harvest engine (Hall 15, Stand H23).

Rated at 216 kW (290 hp) and developing 1200 Nm peak torque, the B6.7H offers 'diesel-like performance' using hydrogen fuel. The engine is said to offer a zero-emissions path which is familiar to both OEMs and farmers.
High parts commonality between the hydrogen engine and diesel counterparts supports optimised part procurement strategies.
Cummins also offers the X15H, another hydrogen internal combustion engine which has a higher displacement (298 – 395 kW, 400 – 530 hp, peak torque 2600 Nm). The engine is targeted at largers agricultural equipment...

CARBON CREDITS.com
Carbon News > Truck Companies Are Shifting td
Hydrogen Fuel for Long-Haul Trips
November 20, 2023
By Jennifer L
...The Shift to Hydrogen-Powered Trucks
Many truckers are shifting focus towards electric technology adapted for 18-wheelers. But there's a clear divide between those favoring battery-cell rigs commonly used in electric cars and those considering hydrogen as the best solution for zero-emission technology, particularly for long-haul trips.

Supporters of hydrogen believe it offers advantages for long trips and quicker refueling compared to battery technology. Hydrogen trucks can carry heavier loads since they don't require large batteries.

However, hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, also called FCEV, and infrastructure are not as developed as battery-electric trucks, and strict regulations are pressuring truck operators.

Starting January 1, California will mandate that trucks visiting the state's seaports be zero-emission vehicles. The state also plans to increase the use of clean fuels, aiming to phase out diesel over the next decades.

These stringent rules on diesel trucks are among the toughest in the country, and other states might adopt similar regulations based on California's lead.

The upcoming regulations have caused a surge in diesel truck purchases as carriers seek to expand their fleets before the restrictions come into effect. Truckers are also investing in zero-emission vehicles, although they come at a high cost, almost triple a diesel truck's price.

These purchases are supported by grants from California and local agencies but hinge on the promise of future infrastructure development.

Battery-electric trucks are already in operation in California, with over a dozen companies transporting freight using these vehicles. However, hydrogen-powered trucks are just starting to enter the market in the state, and hydrogen-fueling stations are lagging behind battery-electric infrastructure.

Globally, China has the most hydrogen fuel network at around 250 while the U.S. only has a little over 50 stations, mostly in California.

Truckers find battery-electric trucks suitable for short trips between ports, rail yards, and warehouses. Yet, for longer journeys of 100 miles or more, they consider these trucks less practical due to limited battery range and lengthy recharging times.

Currently, battery-electric heavy-duty trucks can travel around 300 miles and take hours to recharge. Some truckers report getting just over 150 miles between charges.

In contrast, hydrogen trucks boast a range of up to 500 miles and refuel in about 30 minutes. They are also lighter than battery-electric rigs, enabling heavier loads...

Australia's first hydrogen fuel cell prime mover truck is ready for purchase

November 17, 2023 0 By ANGIE BERGENSON
The commercial fuel cell truck is available to buy.
Produced by Pure Hydrogen (ASX:PH2), the hydrogen fuel cell prime mover truck, "Taurus", is the first of its kind in Australia and is now available for sale on the commercial market, marking a major milestone for the Australian hydrogen company.

The new HFC truck could revolutionize the country's long haul transportation sector.
Pure Hydrogen believes that the large-scale adoption of heavy transport vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel is key to kicking off Australia's hydrogen economy.

The company, which is both a supplier of hydrogen fuel cell (HFC) vehicles and actual hydrogen, has cemented several agreements with customers across multiple markets which could help Pure Hydrogen reach its zero-carbon goals...

Hydrogen fuel news
November 22, 2023 0 By ANGIE BERGENSON
Honda is showing off new hydrogen tech this week at the Brussels Expo.
At the start of the 2023 European Hydrogen Week in Brussels, Honda unveiled its next-generation Hydrogen Fuel Cell Stack Module, and it's not your average fuel cell system.
This H2 drivetrain doesn't put all its eggs in one basket.
Honda designed this latest H2 system to be exceptionally durable and versatile to serve multiple uses.

Not only can this next-gen hydrogen fuel cell system be included within fuel cell vehicles, but it can also reportedly be used in commercial vehicles, construction machinery, and even in stationary power stations...
This was developed with General Motors

Oilprice.com
Hydrogen Set to Compete with Fossil Fuels
By Brian Westenhaus - Nov 23, 2023, 3:00 PM CST
University of Houston energy researchers suggest hydrogen fuel can potentially be a cost-competitive and environmentally friendly alternative to gasoline and diesel, and that supplying hydrogen for transportation in the greater Houston area can be profitable today.

The research team is offering a white paper titled "Competitive Pricing of Hydrogen as an Economic Alternative to Gasoline and Diesel for the Houston Transportation Sector" where they examine the promise for the potential of hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the transportation sector.


The white paper offers that traditional liquid transportation fuels like gasoline and diesel are preferred because of their higher energy density. Unlike vehicles using gasoline, which releases carbon dioxide, and diesel - which contributes ground-level ozone, fuel cell electric vehicles refuel with hydrogen in five minutes and produce zero emissions.

The paper then pitches "According to the Texas Department of Transportation, Houston had approximately 5.5 million registered vehicles in the fiscal year 2022. Imagine if all these vehicles were using hydrogen for fuel."


Houston, home to many hydrogen plants for industrial use, offers several advantages...

Oilprice.com
Hydrogen Set to Compete with Fossil Fuels
By Brian Westenhaus - Nov 23, 2023, 3:00 PM CST
University of Houston energy researchers suggest hydrogen fuel can potentially be a cost-competitive and environmentally friendly alternative to gasoline and diesel, and that supplying hydrogen for transportation in the greater Houston area can be profitable today.

The research team is offering a white paper titled "Competitive Pricing of Hydrogen as an Economic Alternative to Gasoline and Diesel for the Houston Transportation Sector" where they examine the promise for the potential of hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) to significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the transportation sector.


The white paper offers that traditional liquid transportation fuels like gasoline and diesel are preferred because of their higher energy density. Unlike vehicles using gasoline, which releases carbon dioxide, and diesel - which contributes ground-level ozone, fuel cell electric vehicles refuel with hydrogen in five minutes and produce zero emissions.

The paper then pitches "According to the Texas Department of Transportation, Houston had approximately 5.5 million registered vehicles in the fiscal year 2022. Imagine if all these vehicles were using hydrogen for fuel."


Houston, home to many hydrogen plants for industrial use, offers several advantages...

Reuters
Germany presents hydrogen core network plan in bid for 2045 climate neutrality
By Riham Alkousaa
November 14, 20235:07 AM PSTUpdated 12 days ago

BERLIN, Nov 14 (Reuters) - Germany's core network for hydrogen fuel will extend over 9,700 km (6,000 miles) and cost around 20 billion euros ($21 billion) by 2032, the chairman of transmission system operator FNB Gas said on Tuesday, as Berlin bets on the fuel for decarbonisation.

Existing natural gas pipelines will make up 60% of the network, connecting ports, industry, storage facilities and power plants, FNB Gas Chairman Thomas Goessmann told a news conference presenting the network's plans with Economy Minister Robert Habeck. The project will be privately financed.

Germany is seeking to expand reliance on hydrogen as a future energy source to cut greenhouse emissions for highly polluting industrial sectors that cannot be electrified, such as steel and chemicals, and cut dependency on imported fossil fuel.

In July, the German cabinet approved a new hydrogen strategy, setting guidelines for hydrogen production, transport infrastructure and market plans.

The hydrogen network, which will run through all federal states, is a core part of that infrastructure and drilling will start next year, Goessmann added...

What we need is more news about new hydrogen storage methods that improve energy density. Until that is widely available it isn't really all that practical unless you are driving a semi, and even then you have to give up hauling volume for hydrogen storage.

Jim

Clean Technica
Kohler Launches KDH Hydrogen Engine

November 30, 20232 days agoJo Borras

Standalone engine-builders Kohler recently unveiled a new direct injection, hydrogen-powered internal combustion engine based on its KDI 2504 TCR in a bid to reduce carbon emissions.

Like similar solutions from Toyota, Cummins, and other heavy-equipment power producers, the Kohler hydrogen engine isn't a hydrogen fuel cell. Instead, it's a conventional reciprocating piston engine – just one with an unconventional, low-emission fuel. Kohler says that "conventional architecture" makes the new KDH (think, "KD series – Hydrogen version") is intended to be a drop-in replacement for the diesel KDI.
Kohler doesn't make vehicles or gensets itself, of course – but the company's OEM partners can expect high levels of compatibility with their existing platforms. Especially since the KDH uses the the same cooling circuit, power take-off and flywheel, engine mounting points, and intake line(s). That means no major changes will be required to fit the new H engine into existing compartments, making it easy for manufacturers to quickly offer lower emission versions of their existing diesel-powered products.

According to Kohler, the after treatment system (ATS) it's applied to the KDH engine reduces particulate matter (PM), nitrogen oxide (NOx), and hydrocarbon (HC) emissions to "negligible levels" at the tail pipe, allowing the engine to be classified as "zero emission" per most agencies' definitions.

The new hydrogen KDH engine and its first-ever hydrogen power system.
At the same time, the company announced that it would spin off its Energy division as an independent business with Platinum Equity as a majority investment Partner, accelerating long-term growth and decarbonization strategies for both organizations...

Hydrogen fuel news
There is a great deal of
misunderstanding circulating with
regards to the use of H2 as an
energy source
Many people think of disasters such as the
Hindenburg, mushroom clouds or even the
Challenger explosion when they talk about
hydrogen fuel. However, these are all based
on misunderstandings of the facts or
confusion between completely different
concepts.
To start, yes, the Hindenburg was a type of
airship filled with H2 and that dropped to the
ground in a massive fiery disaster in which
people were killed. However, it was not
caused by the H2. NASA and other experts
have shown that other factors caused the
fire. Indeed, it was worsened by the presence
of H2, but the Graf Zeppelin - a similarly
airship with a superior design quality - was
able to fly for almost ten years and across
over one million miles filled with hydroger
without incident.
When it comes to the other two issues, &
mushroom cloud is caused by the
detonation of a nuclear bomb, not from
hydrogen, and the Challenger shuttle
explosion was caused by a solid-oxide
rocket booster O-ring failure, again, not H2.
With historical misunderstandings
cleared up, is modern hydrogen fuel
actually safe to use?
According to the US Department of Energy.
(DoE), all fuels, by their very nature, are
associated with a certain amount of danger
Using fuels safely means preventing the
presence of a source of ignition, oxidant and
fuel at the same time. At the same time, the
DoE's official website also points specifically
to H2 as particularly safe to handle and use
when compared to some of the other types
of fuel currently in common use...
What makes H2 safer?
Among the factors identified that make H2 safer than conventional alternatives are:

It is non-toxic – Unlike conventional alternatives, H2 is not toxic to humans or the environment. The H2 itself, the emissions produced from its use (water vapor), and any unintentional spills are all free of toxins such as the carcinogens and other harmful substances in gasoline, diesel and the emissions from their use or spills.
H2 disperses rapidly – At 14 times lighter than air and a massive 57 times lighter than gasoline vapor, any H2 released or leaked (deliberately or not) will rapidly disperse, shrinking any risk of ground-level ignition.
Higher oxygen requirement for explosion – H2 can become explosive, but it needs an oxygen concentration between 18 percent and 59 percent. Conventional gasoline needs an oxygen concentration of only 1 percent to 3 percent to become explosive.
Lower radiant heat than gasoline – H2's radiant heat is lower than that of conventional gasoline used in vehicles. This means that a flame from H2 doesn't produce as much heat in the air around it as is the case when gasoline burns. Therefore, secondary fire risk associated with the use of H2 isn't as high as it is with conventional alternatives.

Hydrogen fuel news
December 18, 2023 0 By BRET WILLIAMS
GM and Autocar Industries have agreed to collaborate on the development of the vehicles.
General Motors and Autocar Industries have jointly announced that they will be working together on the development of H2 powered heavy vehicles equipped with GM's Hydrotec hydrogen fuel cells.
The companies will be collaborating on the heavy vehicles powered by the Hydrotec units.
The hydrogen fuel cells will be installed in heavy vehicles such as dump trucks, garbage trucks, cement mixers, terminal tractors and road maintenance vehicles that would conventionally be powered by diesel engines. The first of those vehicles are expected to go into production in Autocar's Birmingham, Alabama plant in 2026...

"We want to enable zero tailpipe emissions solutions for the largest, highest energy consuming
vehicles, and fuel cells are ideal for the most energy intensive applications," said Charlie Freese, executive director of GM's Hydrotec in a media statement.

Pilot hydrogen bus program
December 21, 2023 0 By TAMI HOOD
A trial period using H2-
powered buses has made it
possible to spot and fix
challenges with the
technology
A Canadian hydrogen bus pilot in Edmonton
and Strathcona County in the province of
Alberta has made it possible to identify and
resolve future challenges with the zero-
emission technology
The pilot was a collaboration between the
Edmonton Transit Service (ETS) and
Strathcona County Transit. The test involves
working together for 42 months with the
addition of one hydrogen bus to each of their
fleets. The fuel cell vehicles started fare
service on October 25 and the two transit
services are comparing notes, expert
consultations and solutions to the issues
they have already observed and expect to
observe through the length of the trial.
'We expected to find that this wasn't going
to go perfectly right from the get-go," said
ETS transit fleet maintenance director Derek
Hanson. ""Being in Edmonton and having that
cold snap in October was actually quite
beneficial to us because we did get some
learnings from that."...

Hydrogen news,by Julie Campbell 10 July 25
...The same analyst predicted that a much larger proportion of zero-emission trucks will be H2 powered.
In fact, while the analyst predicted that hydrogen fuel cell cars would be a "very small portion" of the car market, it also forecasted that about one fifth of zero-emission trucks would run on hydrogen. This was published in a paper titled Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles 2024-2044: Markets, Technologies, and Forecasts.

The analysis also pointed to a spectrum of other smaller markets that would be using hydrogen to power vehicles, including buses and light commercial vehicles such as delivery vans.

Hydrogen fuel news
...Hyundai has also announced that it will be using H2 in vehicles it produces, including passenger cars, buses, trucks, special equipment, aquatic vessels, trams, power generators, and advanced air mobility.

The automaker will be using its fuel cell system brand HTWO to spearhead the transition to using H2 in the vehicles it manufactures. The brand was first launched in 2020 and through it, the automaker expects to require 3 million annual tons of hydrogen by 2035 for steel production, logistics, and power generation...

...Appel did the test driving on a clear day in a residential area on the edge of the city. It faced little traffic and didn't travel in any areas where there was construction underway. With these ideal driving conditions, Appel was able to demonstrate the handling, including both braking and accelerating, all of which – including tight turns – were smooth to the individual in the passenger seat.

"This truck has very good maneuverability, a very good performance and, I mentioned the range, one of the longest ranges for any zero-emission truck out there right now," said Appel. "It always depends on the application, what range you can really achieve. But I always like to give a couple of real-world references. So, for example, I drove one of the trucks from Coolidge [Ariz.], our headquarters, up to Flagstaff, Ariz., which is all the way up the hill."

Hauling a full load
hydrogen fuel cell truck was hauling a load
of about 81,000 pounds and driving uphill, it
was still able to achieve a 450-mile range
That said, under easier circumstances, some
tests run with customers have shown that
the vehicle can run for closer to 550 miles.

Daimler hydrogen trucks will be driving on German roads in 2024
January 22, 2024 3 By JOHN MAX
Hydrogen fuel news
The automaker's GenH2 big rigs will start being used in Germany by this summer.
Daimler recently unveiled its GenH2 hydrogen trucks, which will operate on liquid H2 to power an electric motor. The automaker recently announced that those vehicles will start being used in Germany by the middle of this year...

IVT
Cummins to debut hydrogen engine in Paris
Saul WordsworthBy SAUL WORDSWORTH24th January 20242 Mins Read
Share

Cummins has announced it will display its next generation B6.7H hydrogen engine to the construction industry for the first time at this April's Intermat show in Paris.

The new B6.7 engine design enables a consistent mounting and space claim for clean diesel, biodiesel, natural gas, and hydrogen fuels. The main engine block remains the same with the head and the fuel system being the key changes.

They can be installed in the same equipment as today's diesel while also using the same transmission, cooling systems, and hydraulic systems, reducing complexity for equipment manufacturers and their customers. Maintenance practices and costs are also comparable to diesel engines.

"Continued investment in the development of our internal combustion engines remains a key part of the company's strategy towards Destination Zero.  We are targeting further improvements in performance and efficiency alongside compatibility with cleaner fuels. This must be achieved without impacting operations, weight, or uptime," said Antonio Leitao, VP of Cummins' off-highway engine business.

Visitors to Intermat will be able to see Cummins' B6.7H hydrogen engine aimed at a wide range of off-highway machinery, with a top rating of 290 hp (216 kW) and an impressive peak torque of 1200 Nm targeted for Stage VI/Tier 5.

Electric
NIKOLA MOTORS ELECTRIC SEMI TRUCK HYDROGEN FUEL CELL
Nikola hydrogen FCEV semi completes 400 mile trip
Jo Borrás
| Jan 29 2024 - 8:55 am PT
Coyote Container completes historic trip in fuel cell truck
The port cartage and drayage specialists at Coyote Container successfully completed a 400-mile delivery in a Nikola Tre semi truck powered by a hydrogen fuel cell.

William Hall, Managing Member and Founder of Coyote Container, drove the hydrogen Nikola over the hilly, 400-mile route that took the truck and its 17.7 ton trailer through California's Altamont Pass and Grapevine Canyon on the I-5 interstate between the Port of Oakland and the Port of Los Angeles in Long Beach. One part of the trip, Tejon Pass, features an elevation that's some 4160 feet above sea level.

"The truck is a dream to drive and I arrived at Pier C with about 140 miles of remaining range," explains Hall. "I drove conservatively and did the steep climbs at 40 mph, much as I would in a diesel with that load profile, though I could have easily gone 55 (mph)."

Coyote Container's Nikola Tre HFCEV semi was one of 35 hydrogen-powered trucks delivered to customers by Nikola late last year, and is reported to be the first such truck to complete a trip like this in customers' hands.

The truck was able to "top off" in SoCal for its trip home thanks to a late 2023 deal Nikola formalized with FirstElement Fuel (FEF), which gives Nikola customers to access hydrogen fueling services at the new FEF multi-use heavy-duty truck station situated near the port in Oakland, California.

Hydrogen fuel news
Nikola barrels forward with hydrogen fueling stations network
January 31, 2024 0 By ALICIA MOORE
The fuel cell truck maker is taking leaps ahead on building out the necessary refueling infrastructure.
Nikola stocks saw some positive movement upon the announcement of the speed at which it is building its network of hydrogen fueling stations for refueling its Class 8 Tre fuel cell trucks.

Nikola News – Hydrogen FCEV Showcases Power and Reliability in Extreme Winter Conditions
January 29, 2024 0 By ANGELA LINDERS
Nikola's Hydrogen FCEV Impresses with Long Distance Capabilities
Nikola Corporation, recently made headlines with its hydrogen fuel-cell-electric vehicle (FCEV). The vehicle demonstrated noteworthy performance by completing a 519-kilometer round trip from Edmonton to Calgary without the need for refueling. This achievement was accomplished under the harsh conditions of a Canadian winter, with temperatures dipping to -10°C.

Toyota CEO Went Public With ALL NEW Water
Engine That Destroys The Entire EV Industry!
Have you ever dreamed of a future where filling up
your car with gasoline is a thing of the past? Well,
that future is closer than you think. A leading car
manufacturer has just introduced a remarkable
advancement- cars powered by water. Experts
are calling this technology a potential
game-changer that could redefine the entire
automotive landscape.

-engines would have water tanks that separate the water into hydrogen and oxygen, then feed the hydrogen to the engine as a hydrogen combustion engine-

Getting perilously close to Snake Oil territory with that one. The fundamental problem is in finding a way to break down water into it's component gases that takes less energy than is released when they recombine. This is in fact the very definition of a Perpetual Motion Machine. I do think Toyota is smart enough not to claim they have created such a thing but that won't prevent marketing folks from going over the side with enthusiasm at any hint of an excuse. When you see all science as magic it's hard to distinguish between what is and is not possible. For this to work there has to be another source of energy to tap into, so what'll it be then? Zero Point energy? Dilithium crystals? Mojo? One works just as well as another from their perspective.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 07, 2024, 07:43:59 PM
Zero Point energy? Dilithium crystals? Mojo? One works just as well as another from their perspective.

Jim

Ahh another SciFy fan like myself LOL!!!

Though they have come up with something close at a low power level...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666998623000169#:~:text=Harvesting%20clean%20energy%20from%20moisture%20has%20become%20a%20promising%20approach,anywhere%20and%20anytime%20of%20moisture. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666998623000169#:~:text=Harvesting%20clean%20energy%20from%20moisture%20has%20become%20a%20promising%20approach,anywhere%20and%20anytime%20of%20moisture.)

The modern version of Global Warming maybe? Possibly more positive, less hysterical, and not as damaging.

Jim

Shell delt the hydrogen cars a blow today closing all the hydrogen stations in California all 55 stations

Quote from: luvrbus on February 09, 2024, 06:05:34 PM
Shell delt the hydrogen cars a blow today closing all the hydrogen stations in California all 55 stations

After more than a decade and some $116 million of state support, California has 63 publicly accessible fueling stations for hydrogen cars. It also has about 12,000 hydrogen passenger cars on the road — by far the most of any state, with about 40 percent of global market share in 2022.Aug 15, 2023

63 stations for 12,000 cars is not a good ratio, I think Shell bailed because of politics and the EV push in California. Maybe some company will buy the Shell stations, one energy site says 7 closed one says 55 closed, with politics in DC now the push is for EV we may not have a choice in a few years

the Istituto Italiano di Tecnologia (Italian Institute of Technology, IIT) of Genoa, and BeDimensional S.p.A. (an IIT spin-off).



The technology, developed in the context of the Joint-lab's activities and recently published in two high-impact factor journals (Nature Communications and the Journal of the American Chemical Society) is based on a new family of electrocatalysts that could reduce the costs of green hydrogen production on an industrial scale.
Hydrogen is considered as a sustainable energy vector, an alternative to fossil fuels...

Hydrogen fuel news

ebruary 15, 2024 0 By TAMI HOOD
The company recently raised $246 million to support its efforts to drill for naturally occurring H2.

Clean fuel startup Koloma, a company backed by Bill Gates, has completed its largest round of funding yet,
     Koloma had already previously announced that it was the recipient of a research grant from a program from the US Department of Energy (DoE) for locating natural H2 deposits and extracting them for use as a clean fuel.  In fact, it was only the day after that announcement that the company then made a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission in which it disclosed the new funding amount.

The grant is meant to be used for research into refining methods to stimulate production of white hydrogen underground, which can then be extracted.  Koloma has been working on the commercialization of a broad spectrum of research conducted by Tom Darrah, its co-founder and CTO, as well as a geologist from Ohio State University. Darrah has studied the location of white hydrogen reservoirs for years and has been focused on where they are most likely to be found.  He has also worked on methods the oil and gas industry has developed in order to improve the extraction process...

'There is enough natural hydrogen underground to meet all demand for hundreds of years', says US government agency
Geologists expect 'gold rush' for natural H2 resources, conference told

19 February 2024 11:52 GMT UPDATED  19 February 2024 14:36 GMT
By Rachel Parkes
There are trillions of tonnes of naturally occurring hydrogen in underground reservoirs, a tiny percentage of which would meet all the world's H2 needs for hundreds of years, geologists said last week — arguing that a "gold rush" to exploit reserves is about to start.
An unpublished report from the US Geological Survey (USGS) — an agency of the US government — has found that there are as much as five trillion tonnes of natural hydrogen underground, USGS researcher Geoffery Ellis told a US conference last week, according to the Financial Times...

Quote from: lvmci on February 19, 2024, 08:18:59 PM
'There is enough natural hydrogen underground to meet all demand for hundreds of years', says US government agency
Geologists expect 'gold rush' for natural H2 resources, conference told

19 February 2024 11:52 GMT UPDATED  19 February 2024 14:36 GMT
By Rachel Parkes
There are trillions of tonnes of naturally occurring hydrogen in underground reservoirs, a tiny percentage of which would meet all the world's H2 needs for hundreds of years, geologists said last week — arguing that a "gold rush" to exploit reserves is about to start.
An unpublished report from the US Geological Survey (USGS) — an agency of the US government — has found that there are as much as five trillion tonnes of natural hydrogen underground, USGS researcher Geoffery Ellis told a US conference last week, according to the Financial Times...

Ahh a new color code for Hydrogen it's now called Gold Hydrogen!!!!

Here's an article about it: https://theconversation.com/gold-hydrogen-natural-deposits-are-turning-up-all-over-the-world-but-how-useful-is-it-in-our-move-away-from-fossil-fuels-220230 (https://theconversation.com/gold-hydrogen-natural-deposits-are-turning-up-all-over-the-world-but-how-useful-is-it-in-our-move-away-from-fossil-fuels-220230)

To date its only really been discovered in a few places. The problem that they state with a bit of hand wringing is:

It's also very hard to tell whether a possible subsurface "trap" contains oil, natural gas, hydrogen or just salt water. The ultimate test is to drill and see what's there. But if a possible hydrogen field turns out to contain crude oil, how do we ensure it's left in the ground?

But hey if they do find a good deposit I think it should be used to make steel:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618326301 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618326301)

Most of the currently hydrogen produced steel is for specialty steels because of the high cost of producing hydrogen.

So find a good Gold Hydrogen well, build a steel plant!!! Rather then having to distribute it too thousands of customers or transport it vast distances. Easier to find iron ore and put in train line than a hydrogen pipeline.

A Toyota Mirai that originally cost $100,000.00 is now available for $17,000.00!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApkTtIjrAyU&t=18s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApkTtIjrAyU&t=18s)

MITSUI reworks its ME-GI gasoline engine to use hydrogen fuel 
March 15, 2024 0 By BRET WILLIAMS
Hydrogen fuel news
The two-stroke engine has been adapted to function on 100 percent H2

In what could prove to be a groundbreaking move for the future of the maritime industry, MITSUI E&S Co. Ltd., a licensee of MAN Energy Solutions, has successfully tested a 50-bore MAN B&W two-stroke engine running on hydrogen fuel up to 100% load...

Hydrogen fuel news 19march2024
...5000 hydrogen-powered electric trucks are expected to hit German roads soon, each with an impressive 400km range per filling. Meanwhile, in the public transport arena, the city of Frankfurt is expected to convert its entire bus fleet to hydrogen power by 2030...

Nikola Celebrates Grand Opening of First HYLA Refueling Station in Southern California
Ontario-based station marks a significant step forward in establishing comprehensive hydrogen refueling network for Class 8 trucks

Published March 21, 2024
PHOENIX – March 21, 2024 – Nikola Corporation (Nasdaq: NKLA), a global leader in zero-emissions transportation and energy supply and infrastructure solutions, via the HYLA brand, celebrated the grand opening of its inaugural HYLA high-pressure modular refueling station and facility in Southern Calif. The celebration welcomed fleet customers, dealers from Nikola's sales and service network, government officials, industry press and members of the Nikola leadership and engineering teams, each playing an integral role in the realization of this achievement.

Highlights of the event included remarks from Nikola executives, as well as Joe Biagi, Biagi Bros. Fleet Director, and representatives from both the City of Ontario and the office of Congresswoman Norma Torres, who presented Certificates of Recognition. Additionally, participants had the opportunity to take part in truck and hydrogen refueling demonstrations, facility and equipment tours and technology Q&A sessions with Nikola engineers focusing on hydrogen safety and the HYLA ecosystem. Attendees also had the opportunity to take rides in the Nikola hydrogen fuel cell electric trucks, further showcasing Nikola's advanced technology that is available and driving on the roads today. 

The Ontario station, which opened for operation last month, will be capable of fueling up to 40 Nikola hydrogen fuel cell electric Class 8 trucks daily. This station is integral to Nikola's strategic initiative to develop up to nine refueling solutions set to be completed by mid-2024, with 14 total refueling solutions to be operational by the end of the year...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebbJTT5e9wY&t=41s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebbJTT5e9wY&t=41s)

Hydrogen stations are still in the initial stages in CA and NY only. Electric charging stations have been around for how many years now?...

Ultra-fast green hydrogen production from municipal wastewater by an integrated forward osmosis-alkaline water electrolysis system
Gabriela Scheibel Cassol, Chii Shang, ...Li Ling Show authors
Nature Communications volume 15, Article number: 2617 (2024)
Recent advancements in membrane-assisted seawater electrolysis powered by renewable energy offer a sustainable path to green hydrogen production. However, its large-scale implementation faces challenges due to slow power-to-hydrogen (P2H) conversion rates. Here we report a modular forward osmosis-water splitting (FOWS) system that integrates a thin-film composite FO membrane for water extraction with alkaline water electrolysis (AWE), denoted as FOWSAWE. This system generates high-purity hydrogen directly from wastewater at a rate of 448 Nm3 day−1 m−2 of membrane area, over 14 times faster than the state-of-the-art practice, with specific energy consumption as low as 3.96 kWh Nm−3. The rapid hydrogen production rate results from the utilisation of 1 M potassium hydroxide as a draw solution to extract water from wastewater, and as the electrolyte of AWE to split water and produce hydrogen. The current system enables this through the use of a potassium hydroxide-tolerant and hydrophilic FO membrane. The established water-hydrogen balance model can be applied to design modular FO and AWE units to meet demands at various scales, from households to cities, and from different water sources. The FOWSAWE system is a sustainable and an economical approach for producing hydrogen at a record-high rate directly from wastewater, marking a significant leap in P2H practice.

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen truck first trailer pull gives HVS something to celebrate
March 25, 2024 0 By ANGIE BERGENSON
The company has announced its latest major milestone in vehicle testing.
UK-based Hydrogen Vehicle Systems (HVS), a designer of OEM hydrogen propulsions systems for trucks, is celebrating a major milestone after its hydrogen truck successfully completed its very first trailer pull on the test track.
The X2.0 is powered by green hydrogen.
The hydrogen fuel cell truck that completed the test – part of HVS' vehicle testing and development program – was the company's second test vehicle, X2.0.  Running on green H2, the hydrogen truck was pushed to perform on the high-speed track at UTAC, Millbrook. It was a significant moment for HVS, as its truck showed off its real-world capabilities...

First Nikola HYLA hydrogen station opens in Ontario, California
March 28, 2024 0 By JULIE CAMPBELL
The refueling facility has marked an important new stage in the company's H2 strategy.
Through its HYLA brand, Nikola Corporation recently celebrated the opening of its first hydrogen station, a high-pressure modular refueling facility in Ontario, a city in Southern California.

And in Canada:

EV maker Nikola Corp (NASDAQ:NKLA) said on Wednesday that a unit of the company collaborated with players, including trucker rest stop Blackjacks Roadhouse, to unveil the first commercial hydrogen fueling station in Alberta, Canada.

What Happened: The HYLA fueling station is part of Nikola's aim to develop fueling infrastructure while simultaneously scaling hydrogen-powered vehicles. It will be situated along a busy highway in Leduc County, with about 96,000 vehicles passing by the truck stop daily...

EcoNews
The Strangest engine in history from WWII
by S Garcia 04 12 2024
...How this engine has been revived: it's now hydrogen-powered and could be used in cars
The California-based company Achates Power was tasked with modifying this World War II engine to run on hydrogen fuel. They did so precisely to demonstrate that we not only need to create new prototypes but also to research and improve the ones we already have.

Achates Power, founded in 2004, specializes in the development of internal combustion engines with two opposed pistons. Their goal is to improve engine efficiency to reduce polluting emissions, which is what interests us in this context.

The engineers at Achates Power took the old Junkers engine and modified it to run on hydrogen instead of traditional fossil fuels. They made changes to the injection system, lubrication, and other parts to adapt it to hydrogen.

Tests showed that the engine can operate stably and reliably on hydrogen. It reached a maximum power output of 135 horsepower, similar to that of the original engine. However, emissions of polluting gases were practically nonexistent, meeting the strictest standards...

Hydrogen fuel news
IN A SIGNIFICANT MOVE
TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE
PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION
BALLARD POWER SYSTEMS,
ANNOUNCED THAT IT HAS
RECEIVED ORDERS FOR 7O EC
MOVE HD HYDROGEN FUEL
CELL ENGINES.

THE INCREASING ACCEPTANCE OF
FUEL CELL BUSES IN EUROPE AND THE
BENEFITS THEY OFFER, INCLUDING
LONG RANGE, FAST REFUELING, AND
SCALABLE INFRASTRUCTURE.
THE ENGINES WILL BE USED TO
POWER BOTH SINGLE- AND
DOUBLE-DECKER BUSES,
PRIMARILY IN THE UK AND
GERMANY, HIGHLIGHTING A
GROWING TREND IN EUROPEAN
TRANSIT SYSTEMS TOWARDS
DECARBONIZATION.
THIS ORDER MARKS A
PIVOTAL STEP IN THE
DEPLOYMENT OF HYDROGEN-
POWERED BUSES ACROSS
THE UK AND EUROPE, WITH
DELIVERIES EXPECTED IN
2024 AND THE BUSES
SLATED TO ENTER SERVICE BY.
2025.

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen fuel cells get more efficient from a dose of caffeine too
April 22, 2024 0 By JULIE CAMPBELL
People aren't the only ones whose performance can benefit from being caffeinated
New research has shown that by adding caffeine to hydrogen fuel cells, efficiency can improve, reducing the need for platinum in their electrodes.

When less platinum is required to produce efficient hydrogen fuel cells, the cost associated with making them is significantly reduced, said Japanese researchers.  In fact, the requirement for rare metals is among the to challenges faced in the effort to keep the cost of using H2 within an affordable range.

Researchers from the Chiba University Graduate School of Engineering in Japan say that they have found that one key to reducing the amount of platinum needed in electrodes is to add caffeine. The units become more efficient and therefore less expensive.

Hydrogen fuel news
FIRST ELEMENT FUEL HAS
INAUGURATED THE WORLD'S
FIRST HIGH-FLOW HYDROGEN
FUELING STATION FOR HEAVY-
DUTY TRUCKS IN OAKLAND
CALIFORNIA, SET TO PUBLICLYS
OPEN IN MAY.

THIS PIONEERING STATION CAN
DISPENSE LIQUID HYDROGEN AT
700 BAR, FUELING 200 TRUCKS
DAILY IN UNDER 10 MINUTES  with CAPACITY UNMATCHED in
California.
HYUNDAI IS COLLABORATINS
WITH FIRSTELEMENT FUEL,
UTILIZING THE STATION FOR
ITS 30 XCIENT FUEL CELL
TRUCKS OPERATING AT THE"
PORT OF OAKLAND.

THE INITIATIVE IS PART OF A
BROADER EFFORT TO REDUCE
CO2 EMISSIONS AND DIESEL
USAGE, SHOWCASING
HYDROGEN'S POTENTIAL IN
SUSTAINABLE HEAVY
TRANSPORT...

And somehow Joe will find a way to F*** it up. Can you just imagine a big gush of liquid hydrogen spewing out before the cutoff shuts it down? (or how about if the cutoff fails) Can you say Epic?

Jim

...THE WORLD'S INAUGURAL
LARGE-SCALE HYDROGEN
FUELING STATION FOR HEAVY DUTY
DUTY COMMERCIAL TRUCKS,
NEAR THE PORT OF OAKLAND,
BY FIRST ELEMENT FUELS,
THIS STATION CAN
SERVICE UP TO 200 TRUCKS.
DAILY, OFFERING REFILLS IN AS
LITTLE AS TEN MINUTES....
HYDROGEN FUEL NEWS

Not self service I reckon.

Hydrogen fuel news
CALIFORNIA HAS LAUNCHED
THE UNITED STATES FIRST
LARGE-SCALE HYDROGEN
FUELING STATION TAILORED FOR
BIG RIGS.
THIS PIONEERING STATION
MARKS A SIGNIFICANT
MILESTONE IN THE PUSH
TOWARDS GREENER
COMMERCIAL TRANSPORTATION.
IT AIMS TO REDUCE
EMISSIONS BY SUPPORTING
THE SHIFT OF FREIGHT
TRANSPORT TO HYDROGEN
FUEL...
THIS DEVELOPMENT PAVES
THE WAY FOR A NATIONWIDE
ADOPTION OF CLEANER FUEL
ALTERNATIVES FOR HEAVY-
DUTY TRUCKS.

Inside Toyota's Hydrogen Development
Center! 1.2 Megawatt Dyno, Trigen Launch
& Fuel Cell Generator
AgO
Jordan is at the grand opening of the TriGen
facility by FuelCell Energy and Toyota, learning
how it created hydrogen, electricity, and water for
use at the Port of Long Beach. He also gets a look
inside the Toyota Hydrogen HQ (H2 HQ) to see
how their hydrogen vehicles are developed.

https://youtu.be/gkeRXi3VISk?si=QMQi0sf2F7iEFc2v

Hydrogen fuel news
HONDA HAS REVEALED ITS HYDROGEN FUEL-CELL- POWERED CLASS 8 TRUCK CONCEPT AIMED AT REVOLUTIONIZING THE FUTURE OF HEAVY-DUTY TRANSPORTATION.
THIS INNOVATIVE TRUCK IS DESIGNED TO OFFER ZERO- EMISSION SOLUTIONS WHILE MAINTAINNG THE PERFORMANCE NEEDED FOR LONG-HAUL TRANSPORT.
THE CONGEPT TRUCK LEVERAGES HONDA'S ADVANCED FUEL CELL TECHNOLOGY, PROVIDING A SUSTAINABLE ALTERNATIVE TO DIESEL ENGINES.
WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT HONDA AIMS TO ADDRESS BOTH ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS AND THE OPERATIONAL NEEDS OF LOGISTICS COMPANIES.
THE TRUCK IS PART OF HONDA'S BROADER STRATEGY TO EXPAND ITS CLEAN ENERGY VEHICLE LINEUP.

Dang is this thread never going to die LOL?

Hydrogen is going to be an extremely tiny market for decades to come. It might become generally available in regions where the discovery of gold hydrogen trapped underground or after the world has a surplus of renewable energy where the the surplus can be diverted to producing hydrogen.

There used to be SciFy trope about beaming power from solar in space. But ground based solar/wind has killed that as any viable solution.

Well, the importance of the direction the major engine manufacturers are going, to replace 18 wheelers diesel with hydrogen power, even retro fitting older engine compartments of 18 wheelers or even refitting diesel engines to hydrogen power as has been done with CNG fuel,  is a way some of us, bus conversion busnuts, may be able to make our busses live a longer life. As opposed to donating our beauties to a new division of the bus museums, the bus conversion section of the bus museums.

In that case I think the most viable option is: https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ (https://www.edisonmotors.ca/)

They also have a YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors (https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors)

Quote from: lvmci on May 22, 2024, 04:06:39 PM
Well, the importance of the direction the major engine manufacturers are going, to replace 18 wheelers diesel with hydrogen power, even retro fitting older engine compartments of 18 wheelers or even refitting diesel engines to hydrogen power as has been done with CNG fuel,  is a way some of us, bus conversion busnuts, may be able to make our busses live a longer life. As opposed to donating our beauties to a new division of the bus museums, the bus conversion section of the bus museums.

I saw a  Cummins Hydrogen powered trash truck being delivered to Vegas the other day,I am guessing they have Hydrogen stations to refill with in Vegas.I see the BNSF trains some with Cat engines running 25% Hydrogen looks like Chevron is involved by the signage on the engines ,it maybe the fuel of the future who knows, I don't believe electric is answer :o my power bill has doubled in the last 2 years

Hydrogen fuel news
AiLO Logistics Boosts Green Fleet with 100 Nikola Hydrogen Trucks Order
May 21, 2024 1 By ANGELA LINDERS Introduction of 100 Nikola Hydrogen FCEVs into AiLO's Fleet
...the introduction of 100 Nikola hydrogen FCEVs into AiLO's fleet is a game-changer. These zero-emission trucks, set for delivery in 2025, are part of AiLO's ongoing efforts to advance sustainable logistics services. This move not only aligns with AiLO's mission but also reinforces the Port of Los Angeles' commitment to sustainability.
"We're not just in the business of moving goods; we're in the business of moving businesses forward," said Jack Khudikyan, CEO of AiLO Logistics. "Through innovation, technology, and sustainable practices, we aim to redefine the logistics landscape and drive positive change in the industry."

Nikola Hydrogen Trucks and Their Role in Driving Change
Nikola's advanced hydrogen fuel cell technology is at the heart of this transformation. The company, recognized globally for its zero-emission transportation and energy infrastructure solutions via its HYLA brand, has been making significant strides in commercializing hydrogen-electric vehicles. The 100-truck order by AiLO is a testament to the growing trust and confidence in Nikola's capabilities.

"Nikola trucks are on the road today, and the biggest test of our trucks is measured by our customers and their repeat orders," said Ryan Clayton, Global Head of Sales, Nikola Corporation. "Having a prominent and mission-driven customer in AiLO not only purchase trucks for 2024 but double their order for 2025 is an honor for our organization and a testament to their drive to make a difference."

Hydrogen fuel news
WITH SUPPORT FROM THE US DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY (DOE), ARGONNE NATIONAL LABORATORY IS ESTABLISHING A NEW RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT FACILITY FOR HEAVY-DUTY HYDROGEN VEHICLES.
THIS FACILITY AIMS TO TEST LARGE-SCALE HYDROGEN SYSTEMS FOR APPLICATIONS SUCH AS TRUCKS, MARINE VESSELS, AND INDUSTRIAL MACHINERY.
ARGONNE WILL FOCUS ON EVALUATING FUEL CELL SYSTEMS, PARTICULARLY POLYMER ELECTROLYTE MEMBRANES (PEM). RANGING FROM 150 TO 600 KILOWATTS.
THE PROJECT WILL RECEIVE AROUND $4 MILLION FROM THE DOE S OFFICE OF ENERG S EFICENCY AND RENEWABLE ENERGYS HYDROGEN AND FUEL CELL TECHNOLOGIES OFFICE.
THE FACILITY IS EMPECTED TO BECOME OPERATIONAL IN SECOND HALF OF THIS YEAR ADVANGING HYDROGEN TECHNOLOGY FOR DIVERSE TRANSPORTATION AND INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hyundai XCIENT achieves new record, proves long-term reliability on Swiss roads
June 17, 2024 1 By ERIN KILGORE
Hyundai's hydrogen truck clocks 10 million km total driving distance in Switzerland.
The Hyundai XCIENT fuel cell electric heavy-duty truck achieved a new record.
"Xcient Fuel Cell is the world's first heavy-duty fuel cell truck to achieve 5 million km (3.1 million miles) of cumulative driving in real-life customer operations," said Mark Freymueller, senior vice president and head of commercial vehicle business innovation at Hyundai.
The driving range is over 400 km (248 miles) per charge in real world conditions, Hyundai said. Refueling a full tank of hydrogen takes about eight to 20 minutes, depending on the ambient temperature.

Hydrogen fuel news
The superalloy is promising for high-temperature applications
The superalloy is better known as a "complex concentrated alloy." This new substance has been shown to work very well for coating surfaces like the ones used in power stations and power stations as well as airplane and other vehicle engines.

The Superalloy to make 100% hydrogen combustion engines a reality
June 24, 2024 0 By JOHN MAX
Researchers have developed a new alloy combining aluminum and nickel
A team of engineering researchers from the University of Alberta Engineering in Canada has developed a new superalloy made of aluminum and nickel and believe it will be highly beneficial for hydrogen combustion engines. published their findings in the Materials Today journal.
  There, they described the superalloy, called A lCrTiVNi5, and its powerful thermomechanical properties.  Among those properties includes high tolerance to fracture, low expansion, high stability, strength and ductility.  Each of those characteristics makes it ideal for tolerating environments that include high heat and high pressure...

When I think of the table of elements I can see (antimony?), Iron, chromium, titanium, vanadium, & nickle in the composite's  formula.

Hydrogen fuel news
01July2024
WALMART CANADA HAS LAUNCHED ITS FIRST FUEL CELL ELECTRIC SEMI- TRUCK IN MISSTSSAUGA, ONTARIO, MARKING A MAJOR STEP TOWARD ECO-FRIENDLY TRANSPORTATION.
THIS NIKOLA HYDROGEN FUE CELL EV CLASS 8 TRACTOR. BOASTING A RANGE OF ABOUT 80O KILOMETERS, REPRESENTS WALMARTS MOVE TOWARDS FULLY ATERNATIVELY- POWERED FLEET.
THE TRUCK, PROVIDED BY ITO INDUSTRIES, AIMS TO REDUCE OF CARBON EMISSIONS SUPPORTING WALMARTS COMMITMENT TO SUSTAINABILITY.
ONTARIO'S MINSTER OF ENERGY APPLAUDS THIS INITIATIVE, HIGHLIGHTING THE PROVINCES EXPANDING HYDROGEN ECONOMY...

Rolls-Royce Spearheads Groundbreaking Hydrogen Engine Project

June 25, 2024 2 By ANGIE BERGENSON

In a groundbreaking move towards sustainable energy solutions, Rolls-Royce has launched the Phoenix project, a collaborative initiative involving five companies and research institutes. The project aims to develop the technologies necessary for a highly efficient, first-of-its-kind hydrogen combustion engine to power combined heat and power (CHP) systems...

..."We are convinced that combustion engines will remain an essential part of the provision of a reliable energy supply during the energy transition," said Dr. Jörg Stratmann, CEO of Rolls-Royce Power Systems. "We are making them climate-friendly with sustainable fuels. That's why we at Rolls-Royce are investing in the development of next-generation hydrogen engines. The consortium in the Phoenix project, with its combined expertise, is a guarantee of the success in tackling this major technical challenge."

Dr. Jörg Stratmann's statement underscores Rolls-Royce's commitment to pioneering advancements in hydrogen engine technology...
By leveraging sustainable fuels, the company aims to make combustion engines more climate-friendly, ensuring their viability during the energy transition...
  This initiative reflects a forward-thinking approach to achieving reliable and sustainable energy solutions...

econews
This KDH engine has experts in suspense: new fuel predicted 100 years ago has worked
by D. García  07/07/2024 in
Mobility engine

This is the first non-polluting combustion engine in history: It only emits water vapor and has 440 horsepower
We once talked about the REx engines that nobody knew about, much less in America. However, in the country, we don't know what the KDH engine is either, with a completely new type of injection that we are not used to. They have just unveiled the next generation, and the world is on tenterhooks while we are still watching for Tesla. The prototype runs on zero-emission fuel (and yes, remember, it's combustion)—that's why experts are talking about a "new era".

This fuel was predicted 100 years ago: Now, it has been used on an engine prototype
Kohler Engines, a manufacturing company that deals in engines for different sectors, has recently exhibited its latest creation, the KDH hydrogen engine, at the 2023 Agritechnica show held in Hannover, Germany. This brand-new internal combustion engine, which can use hydrogen sourced and developed by Kohler itself, represents an important development in the company's strategic line.

The KDH engine is based on the existing Parent 2.5-liter, four-cylinder KDI 2504 TCR diesel engine, but the diesel injection system excluded, and replaced with a G.I.D.E. system meant for hydrogen supply. This approach enables the engine to be installed in the same manner as a diesel engine for machines, have the same dimensions, PTO's, and performance, but deliver a zero-carbon solution.

It would be relevant to turn one's attention to one more advantage of the KDH engine, namely, its capability of performing on hydrogen as if it were diesel. The selection of DI technology instead of PFI accelerates the backfire issue and permits the engine to sustain diesel performance, such as transient response.

The KDH engine aims to match the performance of its diesel counterpart in several key areas:
Maximum power output.
Peak and low-end torque.
Transient response and drivability.
The KDH engine could change FCEVs forever: Why it's not just another hydrogen prototype.
Kohler Engines has designed the KDH engine to be a direct replacement or as a direct drive, meaning it may fit perfectly well into any piece of equipment. Many elements of the engine are observable in the Form of design similarity with the KDI diesel engine, like the cooling circuit, the power-take-off/flywheel bracket, engine-clamping points, and intake line.

Moreover, the exhaust line also has no need for an after-treatment system (ATS) in stage 5. Another advantage is that this adaptation to existing machine platforms implies that OEMs could effortlessly incorporate the KDH engine into their existing models, thus requiring minor changes in the vicinity of the engine...

Good news hydrogen, better fuel milage, longer distances!

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen Mileage Feats: Stadler's Flirt Hydrogen Train vs. Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell Car
July 23, 2024 0 By JOHN MAX
Hydrogen-powered vehicles are increasingly setting new benchmarks in the realm of transportation. Recently, Stadler's Flirt Hydrogen train achieved a Guinness World Record for the furthest distance traveled without refueling by a passenger train, covering an astounding 2,803 kilometers (1,742 miles) on a single tank of hydrogen. This feat highlights the immense potential of hydrogen as a sustainable fuel source for long-distance travel. Here, we explore the details of this record-breaking achievement and compare it to another notable milestone—the Toyota Mirai fuel cell car's 845-mile range record set in 2021...

Walmart

ECONews
America opens the factory of the future and smashes EVs: New engine and 100,000 units per year
by Edwin O.  09/04/2024
cars, Stellantis hydrogen engines

...Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will revolutionize the commercial vehicle market by capturing 40% share
Another notable trend from Stellantis is hydrogen fuel cell technology targeting commercial vehicles. According to Jean-Michel Billig, the man in charge of the group's hydrogen program, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles have the potential to corner 40% of the market share for commercial vehicles within the next decade.

This challenging goal emphasizes the perspective of hydrogen as a suitable replacement for conventional hydrocarbons, particularly for long-range cars and those that require frequent refueling. This approach agrees with the emerging view that diverse zero-emission technologies may be optimal for various forms of vehicles and applications....

ECSNEWS
The water engine,
running for the first time
in history: 400 hp power
and 6,500 RPM
by Edwin O.
11/13/2024
...Thus, while the automotive world keeps looking for a sustainable solution, hydrogen engines, especially those with water injection systems, could appear as a solution for commercial vehicles, sports cars, and even heavy transportation.

Thus, it can be concluded that the success of AVL RACETECH's hydrogen-powered engine is a product of innovation and hard work and promotes the idea that motor racing's future can be considerably green.

Thanks to 400 horsepower output and water injection technology, this engine is a unique breakthrough...

Eco news
by Sarah I.
11/22/2024
...Ammonia: The new fuel of
the future?
Ammonia is increasingly becoming an
alternative fuel solution and is particularly
gaining popularity in the heavy-duty transport
sector. The specific type of engine Amogy is
testing using ammonia is turning liquid
ammonia into hydrogen. Ammonia is a
compound that contains hydrogen, and when
broken down, it releases hydrogen gas which
can then be used as a fuel in hydrogen-
powered engines or fuel cells. The vehicles
would essentially be hydrogen-powered
engines which use ammonia as their hydrogen carrier...
...ammonia's widespread use in the transport industry...
While ammonia holds promise as a future fuel for the transportation industry—especially in shipping, heavy-duty trucking, and possibly aviation—its adoption will depend on overcoming challenges related to infrastructure, safety, and technological development. Ammonia's use as a hydrogen carrier is a promising avenue, particularly for sectors that require high energy density and long-range fueling options...

Hyzon's advancements
Hydrogen fuel news 26Nov24
...Applications and Impressive
Range
Hyzon's advancements are bringing hydrogen
powered heavy-duty vehicles closer to parity
with their diesel counterparts, particularly in
terms of range and practicality.

Class 8 Trucks
• Achieve 350 miles on a full tank of
hydrogen fuel.
• Refuel in just 15 to 20 minutes with a
350-bar fast-fill dispenser.

Refuse Collection Trucks
• Handle up to 1,200 trash bin lifts and a
125-mile range on a full tank
Reported increased fuel efficiency of up
to 300% compared to traditional diesel
models.
• Some trials demonstrated potential for
more than 1,500 cart lifts on one fill...

Just curious...do you have stock in a hydrogen company? Lol.

Hyundai bus and truck hydrogen powered
Dec. 2024

...The Xcient trucks were manufactured at Hyundai's truck and bus plant in Jeonju, South Korea, and imported through the Port of Brunswick in Georgia. This deployment represents a sizeable portion of the logistics fleet serving HMGMA, as more than a third of Glovis America's operational trucks for this site are now hydrogen-powered.

The Technology Behind Xcient Trucks
The Xcient hydrogen trucks are powered by an advanced hydrogen fuel cell system. This system generates electricity through a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen. Unlike internal combustion engines, the only byproduct of this process is water vapor. Hydrogen is stored in high-pressure tanks and supplied to the fuel cell stack, where it combines with oxygen from the air. The electricity produced powers the electric motor, providing a clean and efficient energy source for heavy-duty transportation.

Twin Mid Flow Tech Turns
Heads -How Toyota,HRS
and ENGIE are Simplifying
Hydrogen Refueling
By BRET WILLIAMS
30Jan25
Toyota Motor Europe Partners with HRS and
ENGIE to Revolutionize Hydrogen Refueling
Toyota Motor Europe (TME) has entered a
groundbreaking partnership with Hydrogen
Refueling Solutions (HRS) and ENGIE to accelerate advancements in hydrogen refueling
...From £241Central to their initiative is the development of next-generation hydrogen refueling technology, specifically the Twin Mid Flow system. Funded under the European Union's RHeaDHy project (Refuelling Heavy Duty with very High-flow Hydrogen), this partnership emphasizes streamlined operations, enabling hydrogen to play a pivotal role in decarbonizing Europe's transport sector...

Hydrogen Over Diesel? Why This Engine Tech Is Driving the Future of Heavy-Duty Vehicles
February 14, 2025 0 By Bret Williams
Hydrogen fuel news
MAHLE Powertrain Advances Heavy-Duty Hydrogen Combustion Development
MAHLE Powertrain has taken a significant step towards a greener future by entering the testing and calibration phase of heavy-duty hydrogen combustion engines. With a focus on decarbonizing the haulage industry, the £9.8 million Project Cavendish, funded by the Advanced Propulsion Centre UK (APC), is set to unlock fast-to-market solutions that utilize existing infrastructure...
...Building on Existing Infrastructure
Hydrogen combustion technology stands out partly because it uses much of the same underlying hardware as diesel engines. Industries can transition to hydrogen without overhauling their entire fleet or infrastructure. By providing a quicker upgrade path, projects like Cavendish reduce the financial and logistical burden of moving toward net-zero solutions.
For sectors like logistics, agricultural machinery, and long-haul trucking—where electrification faces challenges due to weight and range limitations—hydrogen offers a practical alternative.

Jonathan Hall, MAHLE Powertrain's Head of Research and Advanced Engineering, explains, "Hydrogen combustion engines allow us to utilize decades of existing development and investment, making the path to decarbonization faster and more achievable for heavy-duty applications."...

You may want to pause this never ending hydrogen lpower eg humping topic  till, at least, 2028,.The new sherrif in town, has other ideas and direction.

Hyundai and Plug Power Advance Hydrogen Economy with Huge Infrastructure Projects
March 13, 2025 By Angela Linders
Two major players in the hydrogen industry are making significant moves to bolster the global hydrogen economy...
...Expanding the Hydrogen Ecosystem
Plug Power's Louisiana plant is poised to strengthen its supply chain, supporting key customers like Amazon and Walmart. The company envisions robust, continuous operations to meet growing market demand as hydrogen-powered logistics and material-handling applications gain traction.

Additionally, the plant aligns with Plug Power's strategic goal of establishing a green hydrogen network in North America. The company aims to integrate production, distribution, and energy applications into a seamless ecosystem for industries ranging from e-mobility to power generation...

Who knows what is going to happen with different fuels ,I never would have thought Cummins would introduce a gasoline powered engine but it is here now ,and will throw a wrench in hydrogen for truck engines , no special fueling stations needed it all there on every HI way and city across the USA

Michelin's Vision for Affordable Green HydrogenMarch 19, 2025 0 By FRANKIE WALLACE
Hydrogen Fuel News
Michelin Embarks on Advancing AEM Electrolyzer Technology for Green Hydrogen Breakthrough

Global tire giant Michelin is making waves in the hydrogen sector with its significant investment in anion exchange membrane (AEM) electrolyzer technology. Through a strategic partnership with top French research institutions, Michelin takes a bold step toward revolutionizing green hydrogen production. What makes this initiative noteworthy is its aim to create next-generation electrolysis systems that marry the strengths of existing technologies while reducing reliance on costly materials like precious metals. This pivot not only underscores Michelin's commitment to sustainability but also places them in the spotlight of hydrogen innovation...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen Trucks That Outperform Diesel? Daimler's Game-Changing GenH2
March 26, 2025 0 By Tami Hood
Pioneering Liquid Hydrogen for Heavy Transport
Daimler Truck is setting a new benchmark in sustainable transportation with its groundbreaking advancements in liquid hydrogen fuel cell technology. Over the past year, its Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck prototypes have undergone rigorous performance testing, signaling a major leap toward commercial viability for hydrogen-powered heavy-duty vehicles. Within the next few years, these innovations are poised to redefine long-haul freight, a sector notorious for its substantial carbon footprint.

Inside the Technology: How Liquid Hydrogen Powers the GenH2 Trucks
Unlike gaseous hydrogen, Daimler has chosen liquid hydrogen for its trucks to maximize efficiency and scalability. The key lies in its compositional density. Liquid hydrogen, stored at cryogenic temperatures of -253°C, enables a significantly higher energy density compared to its gaseous counterpart. This allows the trucks to carry larger fuel volumes, translating into extended operational ranges that exceed 1,000 kilometers on a single fill. Such performance matches or even surpasses existing diesel solutions, making hydrogen a competitive option for long-haul transport.

Advanced testing revealed more than just long-range promise. The trucks integrate a suite of cutting-edge components, including an optimized fuel cell, cryogenic tanks, an e-axle, and a high-voltage battery for energy recuperation during descents. These features work together seamlessly under the Predictive Powertrain Controls system, which adjusts power usage based on real-time topographical data...

Cummins and partners celebrate successful hydrogen engine project
Darlington, UK
Today, Cummins Inc. (NYSE: CMI), and key technology partners have celebrated the completion of a joint project to develop hydrogen internal combustion engine technology for commercial vehicles.

Cummins led a consortium of technology companies; Johnson Matthey, PHINIA and Zircotec in 'Project Brunel', to successfully deliver a 6.7-litre hydrogen internal combustion engine (H2-ICE) for medium-duty trucks and buses. The project was match-funded by UK Government, and facilitated by the Advanced Propulsion Centre UK (APC)...

JCB's Hydrogen Engine: Pioneering the Future of Sustainable Construction
April 11, 2025 Alessin Hacn
...The First Commercially Viable Hydrogen-Powered Engine
This approval marks JCB as the first construction equipment manufacturer to develop a fully functional hydrogen-powered engine for commercial use. Unlike fuel-cell electric alternatives, hydrogen combustion engines leverage existing infrastructure, making the transition to cleaner energy more practical for industries reliant on heavy-duty machinery.

Over 130 Evaluation Engines in Testing
JCB has already produced more than 130 prototype hydrogen engines, which are undergoing rigorous testing in real-world conditions. ..

The Pulse
50 tonnes per day — Hydrogen for millennia found under this American desert
by More M.  April 30, 2025
...At the centre of California's Mojave Desert lies an incredible discovery with the potential to permanently change how we view renewable energy. Scientists and developers have discovered underground hydrogen reserves, and reports state that they could produce about 50 tonnes per day. This is music to our ears because already the world is working effortlessly to ensure that all parts of the globe can harness some sort of clean energy to reduce the environmental problems that we are facing today. The future of America is bright as California pushes for a huge green hydrogen facility...

ECO News
It's the world's largest ever ― 30 tons per day of 'liquid energy' appears in this American desert
by Laila A.  May 7, 2025
The future of clean energy is neatly tucked in the arid landscape of North Las Vegas, Nevada. The great news is that the world's largest liquid hydrogen production facility, operated by Air Liquide, is now producing up to 30 tons of liquid hydrogen per day. Today, the significance lies in hydrogen's day-to-day output, technological sophistication, and its core role in the clean energy transition sweeping across the U.S. and beyond...

electrek.co
Honda really wants to sell you a hydrogen fuel cell, today
Jo Borrás May 2 2025 - 5:16 pm PT
..."Honda hydrogen is open for business," says David Perzynski, assistant manager of hydrogen solutions development at American Honda. "(We have) the fuel cell technology, the expertise, and the supply chain to power a variety of zero-emissions products, including commercial trucking and stationary power generation."

The company arrived with a more developed version of its Peterbilt 579EV-based HFC semi concept, which is based on one of that brand's existing BEVs and uses the Honda fuel cell as a range-extending generator for its 120 kWh battery ... or, rather, it would – if it was ever plugged into a charger.

On battery power alone, the big Pete is good for up to 150 miles of fully loaded range. With the fuel cell along for the piggyback ride, however, the truck's range climbs to more than 500 miles at an 82,000 lb. combined vehicle weight...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen Storage Tech Market Set to Triple by 2030 Amid FCEV & Infrastructure Growth
May 13, 2025 0 By Alicia Moore

Hydrogen storage has come a long way from being a niche solution for rockets and research labs. Today, it's gearing up to play a major role in the clean energy transition worldwide. How big are we talking? Experts are forecasting that the global hydrogen tanks market could jump from $1.37 billion in 2025 to a whopping $3.78 billion by 2030. That's a solid compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 22.5%—not exactly small potatoes.
Hydrogen's Heavy-Duty Moment
What's driving this surge? It mainly comes down to the rise of fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) and the increasing demand for cleaner energy options in sectors where batteries just don't cut it. Think long-haul trucks, shipping, and certain industrial operations—all of which need more power density, longer range, and faster refueling than batteries can offer. This is where Type 4 composite tanks step in, built for extreme pressure (we're talking 500+ bar levels) and superior performance.

Made from lightweight carbon fiber-reinforced plastics with durable thermoplastic liners, these tanks can store hydrogen at up to 700 bar. Not only are they up to 40% lighter than their metal counterparts, but they also make it possible for zero-emission trucks to go the distance—600 miles or more—with quick refueling times of just three to five minutes. It's no wonder they're becoming the go-to standard in zero-emission technology...

Hydrogen fuel news

Hydrogen Storage Breakthrough: Stronger, Safer Aluminum Alloys Target Hydrogen Embrittlement
Hydrogen Storage Breakthrough: Stronger, Safer Aluminum Alloys Target Hydrogen Embrittlement
June 9, 2025 1 By Jake Banks
A multinational research team led by the Max Planck Institute for Sustainable Materials in Germany has just introduced a next-generation line of Scandium-enhanced aluminum-magnesium alloys. And this isn't just another incremental step forward—it's a serious breakthrough in hydrogen storage technology...

...Tackling an Old Problem with a Fresh Solution
On April 30, 2025, the team announced a material innovation that could finally put an end to a decades-old obstacle: hydrogen embrittlement. This problem has long made it tough to use aluminum components in hydrogen-rich settings. But their new alloy family doesn't just resist embrittlement—it shrugs it off with style. We're talking about a 40% jump in strength and a fivefold improvement in hydrogen resistance. That's a big deal for everything from fuel cell vehicles to hydrogen pipelines and storage tanks.

...The Science Behind the Strength
So, what makes these alloys so special? It comes down to an innovative two-step nanoprecipitation method... Need proof? Advanced tools like atom probe tomography confirmed it right down to the atomic level...

The Big Picture: Hydrogen Storage Ready for Prime Time
These alloys don't just perform well; they're also built to work with existing industrial production methods, like water-cooled copper mold casting. That means no need to reinvent the wheel to get them out into the world.

Quote from: chessie4905 on February 24, 2025, 08:19:12 AM
You may want to pause this never ending hydrogen lpower eg humping topic  till, at least, 2028,.The new sherrif in town, has other ideas and direction.

Amen, even if they do produce hydrogen over the road buses.

We will all have shuffled off stage by the time they are available to convert for our desired lifestyle...

Subscribe for news and follow along as ExxonMobil accelerates the path to decarbonization.
...ExxonMobil is working to develop the world's largest low-carbon hydrogen facility with low carbon intensity ammonia available for offtake at its Baytown, Texas complex.2 The project will have access to lower emission natural gas from the Permian Basin. The facility is expected to produce differentiated, low-carbon intensity hydrogen with approximately 98% of carbon dioxide (CO2) captured and sequestered...
...Mitsubishi Corporation and ExxonMobil sign Project Framework Agreement to advance world's largest low-carbon hydrogen project...

Texas Pushes to Lead in Hydrogen Production with Massive Gulf Coast Investments
July 8, 2025 1 By Jake Martin
Texas is charging ahead as a rising force in hydrogen production, blending old-school energy expertise with federal support and heavyweight private investment to reshape its future around sustainable energy.
...the Gulf Coast Hydrogen Hub and the industry-led HyVelocity Hub—are laying the foundation for Texas to crank out more than 1.8 million metric tons of hydrogen each year and roll out a brand-new hydrogen infrastructure at scale.

...Big names like Air Liquide North America, Chevron, ExxonMobil, and Plug Power are stepping up in a big way, expanding large-scale hydrogen production and developing storage systems. With over 1,000 miles of hydrogen pipelines—some of them decades old—Texas is tapping into its deep-rooted petrochemical base to get a leg up on the competition...

ECO News
by Edwin O.  July 10, 2025
hydrogen-nitrogen fusion

...Researchers at the University of Illinois, Chicago (UIC) created a revolutionary fusion process between hydrogen and nitrogen that offers significant potential to change the production of ammonia and hydrogen fuel...

A new method for hydrogen production
Solar power and agricultural waste
...UIC engineers designed a special technique to derive hydrogen gas from water through solar power and farm commodities. This innovative approach cuts the energy required for water hydrogen extraction by 600% to establish a sustainable hydrogren making method. Biochar extracted from agricultural waste is a carbon-heavy material that reduces electrical consumption during water splitting operations...
...The innovative method increases hydrogen production efficiency and relies on renewable energy through solar power. The integration of biochar derived from waste products, including cow manure and sugarcane husks, increases the method's sustainability...

Apparently Hydrogen cannot be liquified at any temperature above MINUS 250 or so centegrade, meaning that cooling it is the big issue. How is that done? I am pretty sure current technology only has one way to reach that low temperature and that is by boiling off the liquid itself. Which would mean that any liquid hydrogen tank or storage facility must safely dissipate a quantity of combustible gas without allowing the concentration to reach combustible levels. So, park your rig in an unapproved garage or hangar and the next thing you know the whole works could go up in a mighty explosion the likes of a fertilizer plant going off.

Jim

Green Hydrogen Puts Seattle on the Map as a Future Clean Energy Leader
July 29, 2025 0 By Angela Linders
Hydrogen fuel news
Seattle—the city where maritime grit meets tech ingenuity—is stepping boldly into the spotlight...
Why Green Hydrogen Is a Big Deal

Sure, electrification is making waves—but it's not the fix-all for everything, especially in ports, aviation, and freight. These sectors burn through fuel in ways that batteries just can't handle efficiently. That's where green hydrogen comes in. With the energy punch of a gallon of gas packed into just one kilogram—and only water vapor as the byproduct—it's a clean, powerful alternative for the jobs electricity struggles with.

Enter the DOE's Hydrogen Shot, a major push to make green hydrogen affordable—just $1 per kilogram. With abundant hydroelectric resources and a deep-rooted clean energy culture, the Pacific Northwest is in a prime position to hit that mark...

What going to happen if the envro people get their way and take all the dams from the rivers in the Northwest to save the Salmon

Hydrogen Production: Air Liquide's $250M Liquid Hydrogen Plant in Nevada
August 5, 2025 hydrogen fuel news
ALICIA MOORE
When you think of the Nevada desert,you probably picture endless dunes and sun-baked rock. Now swap that image with a network of cryogenic tanks and hydrogen piping. Air Liquide Just fired up the world's largest (at the moment) liquid hydrogen production plant in North Las Vegas, Nevada. With a hefty 30 tons-per-day capacity, this faclity is a game- changer for scaling up green hydrogen at industrial levels.
...Its a $250 milion show of confidence in hydrogen production as a cornerstone of the energy transition. Founded back in 1902, the On French giant has over siX decades hydrogen know-how under its belt and sits right behind the top spot among global industrial gas suppliers. planting this massive hub in the U.S. Southwest, Air Liquide isn't just fueling its own clean-energy goals; it's also backing California's push under the Low Carbon Fuel Standard...
...Air Liquide has been a hydrogen trailblazer for more than 60 years, operating everything from small refueling stations to continental pipeline networks. The North Las Vegas plant stitches those bits and pieces together into a gigawatt-scale operation. It's a clear signal that large-scale, low-carbon hydrogen is vital for decarbonizing both transport and heavy industry...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen storage technologies – Engineered Supramolecular Crystals Exceed DOE Targets
August 4, 2025 0 By Jake Banks

A research group at Beihang University led by Jiayi Zuo, Hao Wang and Hongyi Gao unveiled a game-changing milestone in hydrogen storage. Their tailor-made supramolecular crystals hit a volumetric capacity of 53.7 g/L and a gravimetric capacity of 9.3 wt%, comfortably clearing the U.S. Department of Energy's top targets for onboard systems. They didn't stop at lab bragging rights—they tested those crystals between 77 K and 160 K under 100–5 bar swings, proving they can handle real-world conditions. This breakthrough promises to smash barriers across automotive, aerospace and stationary storage, fast-tracking more robust sustainable energy solutions.
Strategic Implications
If you're an OEM diving into fuel-cell vehicles, think of lighter, sleeker tanks boosting your range or payload by around 10–15%—all without tearing up your current chassis. Energy players eyeing hydrogen distribution could trim compression costs by about 10% and shrink their plant footprints by up to 20%...

What does this mean in real world figures we can understand? 57 grams is about 2 ounces so if it takes a kilo or 2.2 lbs to equal a gallon of gas, let's see that's about 4-1/2 gallons of the stuff to equal a gallon of gas? Sorry but that's still not nearly good enough.

Jim

Hydrogen fuel news
ExxonMobil's Baytown Plant Aims to Pioneer Low-Carbon Hydrogen Production
ExxonMobil's Baytown Plant Aims to Pioneer Low-Carbon Hydrogen Production
August 8, 2025 1 By Angie Bergenson
The race to slash emissions in heavy industry has hit a pivotal moment as ExxonMobil and its partners gear up to build what could be the world's largest low-carbon hydrogen plant in Baytown, Texas.

ExxonMobil unveiled plans for a Baytown facility designed to churn out up to one billion cubic feet of hydrogen per day through steam methane reforming paired with robust carbon capture...

There are lot of better uses for Hydrogen then motive power (like steel production).

Until there is very large surplus it will not really be available for motive power.

The only way this could possible change is White Hydrogen I.E. A natural gas style well that only produces hydrogen, there are a few of these wells around the world but they don't really know how to find them at scale.

Until this actually happens, this thread is just noise...

Looks like they making progress I see the BNSF Cat engines that started 25% hydrogen and 75% natural  gas a couple years ago are now 60% Hydrogen on the hydraulic drive train engines, doesn't sound like a train engine no smoke ,no noise and no vibration and the hydraulic drive moves a string of containers at a idle     

Sci tech daily
Earth's Secret Hydrogen Vault: Trapped Underground, Ready to Power the Future
By Durham UniversityJune 6,
Scientists have discovered the ideal geologic conditions that let hydrogen form and accumulate underground, offering a cleaner energy alternative.

A groundbreaking study reveals how natural clean hydrogen, buried deep in Earth's crust, could fuel a greener future.

Scientists have cracked the "recipe" for finding underground hydrogen, identifying the geological conditions that allow it to form, rise, and stay trapped until it's tapped. Like baking a perfect soufflé, it all comes down to getting the ingredients and timing just right. If harnessed effectively, this natural hydrogen could reduce our dependence on fossil fuels and power a more sustainable world.
Unlocking Earth's Hidden Hydrogen Reserves...

Hydrogen fuel news
Geologic Hydrogen Exploration: Wyoming's AI-Driven Energy Revolution
September 1, 2025 0 By Angela Linders
Introduction: Pioneering Energy Frontiers in Wyoming

Imagine yourself on a windswept Wyoming ridge, where the sky feels endless and the promise of a new energy era is as tangible as the breeze. In a state home to just 578,803 souls—long nicknamed America's "Energy State" for its coal, oil, and natural gas—researchers at the University of Wyoming's School of Energy Resources (SER) are chasing something fresh: geologic hydrogen. That's the stuff Mother Nature produces deep underground, skipping the energy-guzzling steps of traditional hydrogen production. If it works out, this could rewrite the playbook on Wyoming Energy Diversification, delivering cleaner, more cost-effective power to both small towns and big cities. And with a rent-per-capita near $34,000, every breakthrough could spark real economic fireworks across the Cowboy State.

Wyoming's energy saga runs deeper than coal seams and natural gas booms—it's over a century old. Now, as the world pivots toward greener grids, everyone from state leaders to university labs is itching to shake things up. Thanks to decades of geoscience know-how and drilling infrastructure already in place, SER is perfectly positioned to blaze this new trail.

Uncovering Nature's Hidden Fuel
So, what exactly is this elusive geologic hydrogen, and why should we care? Picture water reacting with mineral-rich rocks far underground, brewing up H₂ molecules that slip along fault lines until they collect in hidden pockets. A landmark assessment by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) flagged Wyoming as one of the nation's prime spots for these under-the-radar reserves, thanks to its complex fault systems and varied rock layers....

Hydrogen is coming but it is going to take a few more years ,all the diesel engine manufactures are on board CAT has been on board for past 10 years Reading the CAT magazine they expect to double the life of their engines using Hydrogen fuel to over 40,000 hours  before needing a rebuild they are about 20,000 hours now on diesel fuel 

Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Trucks Gear Up for California Debut with Pure Hydrogen & GTS Group
September 3, 2025 0 By Bret Williams

Ready to Rumble in California?
Hold onto your seats—on August 30, 2025, Pure Hydrogen Corporation and California's fleet guru GTS Group just shook things up with a non-binding letter of intent to deploy hydrogen fuel cell trucks all across North America. It's a bold step into the heavyweight arena of commercial trucking and a big moment for the future of California clean transport.

They've got their sights set on both Class 8 tractor units and sturdy hydrogen-powered rigids, aiming to deliver the first trucks in Q4 2025. Whether it's picking up trash or hauling concrete mixers, these rigs promise the driving range and lightning-fast refuels fleets crave—without the lingering diesel fumes.

And let's be clear: this isn't some tiny pilot project. It's a full-throttle strategic push—pending technical due diligence and regulatory sign-offs—and it rides on the momentum of a fresh $1 million capital raise to fuel Pure Hydrogen Corporation's U.S. expansion...

Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Trucks Gear Up for California Debut with Pure Hydrogen & GTS Group
September 3, 2025 0 By Bret Williams

Ready to Rumble in California?
Hold onto your seats—on August 30, 2025, Pure Hydrogen Corporation and California's fleet guru GTS Group just shook things up with a non-binding letter of intent to deploy hydrogen fuel cell trucks all across North America. It's a bold step into the heavyweight arena of commercial trucking and a big moment for the future of California clean transport.

They've got their sights set on both Class 8 tractor units and sturdy hydrogen-powered rigids, aiming to deliver the first trucks in Q4 2025. Whether it's picking up trash or hauling concrete mixers, these rigs promise the driving range and lightning-fast refuels fleets crave—without the lingering diesel fumes.

And let's be clear: this isn't some tiny pilot project. It's a full-throttle strategic push—pending technical due diligence and regulatory sign-offs—and it rides on the momentum of a fresh $1 million capital raise to fuel Pure Hydrogen Corporation's U.S. expansion...

Hydrogen fuel news
Zero-Emission Technology Unveiled: Honda's V2H, V2G and Fuel Cell Innovations at RE+25
Zero-Emission Technology Unveiled: Honda's V2H, V2G and Fuel Cell Innovations at RE+25
September 4, 2025 0 By Jake Banks

This September at RE+25 in Las Vegas (Sept 8–11, 2025), American Honda Motor Co., Inc. is rolling out a powerhouse lineup of zero-emission technology that ties it all together—vehicle-to-home, vehicle-to-grid, rooftop solar, home battery storage, and even fuel cell technology for stationary power. Think of it as a sneak peek into a future where your EV, solar panels, and home battery tag-team like a mini power plant in your driveway. We've partnered with Southern California Edison and the ChargeScape platform to showcase real-life ways to shore up grid reliability, slash energy bills, and keep homes humming, no matter what Mother Nature throws our way...

...Honda Fuel Cell Power Generator: A modular system (250 kW–3 MW) tapping into hydrogen infrastructure for on-demand clean energy. With mass production set for 2026, it's built for commercial and industrial sites craving a low-emission, quiet backup with instant startup....

Hydrogen fuel news
Linde to Double U.S. Hydrogen Production with 35 MW PEM Electrolyzer at Niagara Falls
September 5, 2025 0 By Jake Martin

Linde  just scored a big win—receiving a 35 MW PEM electrolyzer from Accelera by CUMMINS for its new green hydrogen facility in Niagara Falls, New York. When it fires up in 2025, the plant will lock onto local hydroelectric power to crank out truly carbon-free hydrogen, doubling Linde's U.S. green liquid hydrogen capacity and giving a serious boost to nationwide hydrogen production...

The biggest issue with hydrogen is the energy required to produce the hydrogen is extortionately high, even higher than most methods that to produce electricity for EVs.

Hydrogen can tackle NOx emissions even if use in internal combustion- NOx can be calibrated out and there's no hydrocarbon penalty. The other challenge is storage- if not done in liquid form, the hydrogen can dissipate away.

How are you going to liquify hydrogen without bleeding it off to keep the tank cold? Still no commercially viable catalyst in sight that I've heard of, unlike acetylene and the pressure required to keep it liquid at ambient temperature is off the chart, as in not really possible.

Also consider that hydrogen molecules are the universes smallest so they can migrate through any other substance pretty much at will. Add high pressure and you get significant leakage. Plus being the lightest so there's a reason there is no free hydrogen at the surface of the planet. It all escapes to outer space.

It's very far from being the ideal fuel.

Jim

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen infrastructure safety bolstered by PIPES Act of 2025
September 22, 2025 0 By Erin Kilgore

With pipelines getting long in the tooth and carbon transport routes stretching ever farther, Congress decided it was high time to step in on September 18, 2025. The House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee just moved forward H.R. 5301, the Promoting Innovation in Pipeline Efficiency and Safety (PIPES) Act of 2025. This bipartisan package reins in the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) for another four years, rolls out fresh safety rules for CO₂ and hydrogen lines, and locks down $804 million in operator-funded oversight.
Key Provisions
Reauthorizes PHMSA's safety programs for four years, with all funding recovered from pipeline and storage operators.
Sets baseline safety standards and risk-mitigation rules for CO₂ pipelines, covering everything from design specs to emergency response.
Carves out a dedicated regulatory framework for hydrogen pipelines, acknowledging their unique material stresses and leak risks...

Hydrogen Fuel News
Fuel Cell Buses: Isuzu and Toyota's Next-Gen Zero-Emission Game-Changer
September 29, 2025 By Bret Williams

Here's the Kicker!
Imagine hopping on a bus so quiet you swear you're gliding—you'll barely hear anything except a gentle hum. No clanking gears, no diesel stink—just clean, crisp air all around. In the world of hydrogen mobility, this is a total game-changer. Thanks to the Isuzu Toyota collaboration, these slick fuel cell buses are gearing up for production at the J-Bus Utsunomiya plant in FY2026. If you thought zero-emission transport was years off, buckle up—it's happening now...

Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen Fueling Station Boosts Foothill Transit's Zero-Emission Bus Fleet
October 1, 2025 0 By Erin Kilgore

Imagine rolling into the Arcadia bus yard at Foothill Transit on a crisp California morning. Instead of clouds of diesel exhaust, you'll spot 19 brand-new fuel cell buses lined up and ready for a lightning-fast refill at the latest hydrogen fueling station. Clean Energy Fuels Corp. has won the bid to design, build, and maintain this shiny second station—an $11.3 million adventure funded by federal and state grants. In the heart of Los Angeles County's endless sprawl—where nearly 9.84 million people live under that infamous smog—this project is turbocharging zero-emission transit in a big way, pushing Foothill Transit closer to its goal of a fully zero-emission fleet by 2040...
...Hydrogen fueling made simple
This station's setup is slick: liquid hydrogen chills in vacuum-insulated tanks, then gets warmed into gas and pumped out through high-pressure nozzles built for fleet-scale speed. Safety's taken seriously—think backup valves, leak sensors, and nonstop monitoring. The whole setup is built to exceed local and state safety codes, because you can never be too careful when dealing with cryogenic liquids in a busy yard. It runs 24/7, with remote data feeds that flag any hiccup so technicians can swoop in and fix issues before they cause downtime. Once the hydrogen hits the bus's fuel cell stack, it teams up with oxygen to generate electricity, emitting nothing but water vapor. The best part? A refill is done in just 12–20 minutes—just like diesel—and each top-off sends drivers off with up to 400 miles of range, perfect for long regional loops...

...Fast refueling: Diesel-like fill times keep buses in service, not in line.
Extended range: Up to 400 miles per fill covers long suburban and highway routes without hitch...

Quote from: lvmci on October 01, 2025, 09:45:59 AM
Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen Fueling Station Boosts Foothill Transit's Zero-Emission Bus Fleet
October 1, 2025 0 By Erin Kilgore

Imagine rolling into the Arcadia bus yard at Foothill Transit on a crisp California morning. Instead of clouds of diesel exhaust, you'll spot 19 brand-new fuel cell buses lined up and ready for a lightning-fast refill at the latest hydrogen fueling station. Clean Energy Fuels Corp. has won the bid to design, build, and maintain this shiny second station—an $11.3 million adventure funded by federal and state grants. In the heart of Los Angeles County's endless sprawl—where nearly 9.84 million people live under that infamous smog—this project is turbocharging zero-emission transit in a big way, pushing Foothill Transit closer to its goal of a fully zero-emission fleet by 2040...
...Hydrogen fueling made simple
This station's setup is slick: liquid hydrogen chills in vacuum-insulated tanks, then gets warmed into gas and pumped out through high-pressure nozzles built for fleet-scale speed. Safety's taken seriously—think backup valves, leak sensors, and nonstop monitoring. The whole setup is built to exceed local and state safety codes, because you can never be too careful when dealing with cryogenic liquids in a busy yard. It runs 24/7, with remote data feeds that flag any hiccup so technicians can swoop in and fix issues before they cause downtime. Once the hydrogen hits the bus's fuel cell stack, it teams up with oxygen to generate electricity, emitting nothing but water vapor. The best part? A refill is done in just 12–20 minutes—just like diesel—and each top-off sends drivers off with up to 400 miles of range, perfect for long regional loops...

...Fast refueling: Diesel-like fill times keep buses in service, not in line.
Extended range: Up to 400 miles per fill covers long suburban and highway routes without hitch...

Yeah but what is it's boil off time when the bus is not in use? Maybe a week or two if you are lucky. Liquid hydrogen long term storage is definitely iffy and belongs in the deep cold interplanetary space.

So hey all the hydrogen has boilded off, you tow your bus to the fueling station?

Hydrogen Fuel News
Honda Advanced Materials Lab Ignites Next-Gen Mobility Research at Ohio State
October 13, 2025 0 By Bret Williams
Ever wondered how tomorrow's cars will run cleaner, longer, smarter? Buckle up—Honda just dropped a game-changer in the heart of the Midwest!...

...That's exactly where Honda's new lab shines. They're zeroing in on five game-changing areas:

Hydrogen fuel cells that whip up electricity from hydrogen and oxygen, with only water vapor as the byproduct.
Carbon capture technology designed to snag CO₂ from engines and industrial exhaust streams before it hits the atmosphere.
Next-gen EV batteries featuring beefed-up energy density, lightning-fast charging, and top-tier safety.
Quantum and nanotechnologies to simulate and craft materials atom by atom.
Battery recycling methods that reclaim critical metals and chemicals for a true circular economy.
Some of these ideas aren't just lab dreams—they're already showing up in pilot programs. Regional transit agencies are exploring hydrogen bus routes, and Ohio power plants are testing carbon capture modules. With Honda's materials expertise, those pilots could go from slow crawl to full-speed rollout in no time.

Here's the kicker: by teaming up, Honda and OSU can catapult concepts from computer models to real-world tests faster than ever. That means next-gen vehicles hitting the road sooner—and at lower cost...

Hydrogen fuel news

Hydrogen Production from Dairy Biogas: Utility Global and Maas Energy Works Launch Carbon-Negative Project in California
Hydrogen Production from Dairy Biogas: Utility Global and Maas Energy Works Launch Carbon-Negative Project in California
October 14, 2025 0 By Jake Martin

Guess what? California's dairy fields are about to take center stage in hydrogen production. On October 7, 2025, Utility Global and Maas Energy Works announced they're teaming up to turn everyday manure biogas into carbon-negative hydrogen fuel. Their pilot plant, nestled in a California dairy complex, should be up and running by early 2026. When it goes live, it'll pump out around three tons of H2 a day—perfect for powering heavy-duty trucks and pushing the envelope on zero-emission technology.

This partnership leans on H2Gen, Utility Global's biogas-to-hydrogen system that skips the grid entirely.
Once stable, it's set to produce about three tons per day of deeply carbon-negative hydrogen.
It dovetails neatly with California's push to decarbonize heavy-duty fleets and cut smog-causing pollutants...

You know you keep posting stuff and I ask you practical questions that you basically ignore!!!

Like my last question about hydrogen boil off.

Are you a lobbyist who is getting paid to post on this extreme corner case that will not occur in our old farts lifetime (71 myself)?

Hey if want to watch something semi-bleeding edge that might apply to us (or heck is at least interesting), check out Edison motors in Canada.

Lots of stuff on YouTube related to this and heck right to repair...

Plug Power, Edgewood Renewables Launch Waste-to-Fuels Plant in North Las Vegas
Plug Power, Edgewood Renewables Launch Waste-to-Fuels Plant in North Las Vegas
October 27, 2025 0 By Angela Linders
On October, 2025
Plug Power and Edgewood Renewables teamed up to shake things up in the American West's push for sustainable energy. They've set their sights on North Las Vegas, Nevada, where a shiny new renewable fuels plant will spring to life. By turning waste biomass into renewable diesel, biomethanol, and sustainable aviation fuel (SAF), and leaning on hydrogen production through advanced electrolyzers, this joint venture is all about cutting carbon and boosting energy diversity...

Quote from: luvrbus on September 01, 2025, 12:28:34 PM
Hydrogen is coming but it is going to take a few more years ,all the diesel engine manufactures are on board CAT has been on board for past 10 years Reading the CAT magazine they expect to double the life of their engines using Hydrogen fuel to over 40,000 hours  before needing a rebuild they are about 20,000 hours now on diesel fuel

At least a decade or two assuming they can find white hydrogen from gas wells. They are very much looking and there's a couple of wells in Europe. But a better use would be steel making.

Then we have to wait for trickle down before it's affordable for us. Even if Greyhound went to Hydrogen tomorrow the used buses to convert wouldn't be available for a decade afterwards.

[the future of keeping our bus conversion engines running with our current motors, by these kits]

HYDROGEN Fuel News
ULEMCo Secures Funding to Scale Zero-Emission Hydrogen Conversions for Heavy-Duty Fleets
ULEMCo Secures Funding to Scale Zero-Emission Hydrogen Conversions for Heavy-Duty Fleets
November 6, 2025 0 By Jake Martin

ULEMCo Ltd has revealed they've just locked in a fresh round of funding to kickstart their first purely zero-emission technology offerings for heavy-duty commercial vehicles. This Liverpool-based clean-energy pioneer—founded in 2014 to turn decades of know-how in hydrogen combustion and fuel cell technology into real-world solutions—is steered by Managing Director Amanda Lyne, a 20-year veteran of the hydrogen world, alongside Non-Executive Chairman Dr. Robert Joyce. Over the last year, they've been fine-tuning their dual-fuel conversion kits and pushing full-hydrogen systems forward, all aimed squarely at the toughest challenges in industrial decarbonization: heavy trucks, refuse vehicles, gritters and sweepers.


Transport makes up roughly 25% of the UK's carbon footprint, and when it comes to heavy-duty work—like long-haul regional routes or snow-clearing fleets—battery-electric solutions can really hit a wall under heavy torque demands and marathon driving distances. ULEMCo's clever dual-fuel approach and longer-term bet on pure hydrogen engines are designed to bridge that gap, slashing up to 70% of tailpipe CO₂ today and gearing up for 100% green hydrogen operation in just a few years.

If you're a fleet manager juggling refuse collection routes, winter maintenance or regional haulage, you know how painful downtime and complex refuelling schedules can be. What you need is something that slides right into your current depots and keeps trucks rolling—without a complete overhaul of your operation.
ULEMCo's retrofit kits bolt onto existing diesel engines, swapping in hydrogen for up to 70% of the fuel mix, while keeping the diesel backup ready for remote runs or service stops.
         ***
Key Takeaways
Funding unlocked: New cash injection fuels deployment of hydrogen dual-fuel and full-hydrogen conversion kits.
Immediate impact: Dual-fuel systems replace 30–70% of diesel with hydrogen, cutting CO₂, NOₓ and particulate pollution.
Future-proof tech: Full-hydrogen combustion engines and fuel cell technology modules aim for genuine zero-emission performance.
Infrastructure synergy: Partnerships with UK hydrogen hubs strengthen hydrogen infrastructure and streamline depot refuelling.
       ***
Net-zero alignment: Supports the UK's 2050 goals and accelerates the growth of the green hydrogen market.

How the Hydrogen Dual-Fuel System Operates
At the heart of ULEMCo's kit are high-pressure hydrogen cylinders, custom injectors and a revamped electronic control unit tucked neatly under the vehicle. The magic happens in the combustion chamber: diesel and hydrogen blend at a programmed ratio—anywhere from 30% up to 70% hydrogen—so you keep the torque you need while cutting CO₂ emissions in step. Best of all, the original diesel setup stays intact. If you're rolling through a corridor with limited hydrogen infrastructure, you can switch back to diesel-only mode at the flick of a switch.

Installation is surprisingly quick—around two to three days at a certified workshop or even on-site at your depot, depending on truck size. ULEMCo's team handles calibration, safety protocols and training for your in-house mechanics. Their modular design means you can scale or update kits as hydrogen supply grows and government incentives evolve...

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Bus Leads Guangzhou's Green Mobility Revolution
Hydrogen Fuel News
November 20, 2025 0 By Angela Linders

  Setting the Scene in Guangzhou
Picture this: Guangzhou, home to nearly 19 million residents and a historic trade hub, is making waves in Hydrogen Public Transport. On any given weekday, the city hums with life—traffic buzzing, people weaving through streets, that unmistakable energy of the Pearl River Delta. But there's a twist: silent buses slip through both ancient alleyways and sleek glass towers, leaving nothing behind but water vapor. That shift kicked off on November 5, 2025, when HTWO Guangzhou, Hyundai's dedicated hydrogen fuel-cell arm in China, teamed up with the trailblazing Skywell New Energy to roll out an Hydrogen Fuel Cell Bus measuring 8.5 meters long. ..

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+hydrogen+fuel+practicle&sca_esv=d8b03bc1a9f4816e&sxsrf=AE3TifPhm37c5shoxjSLARzlNtj9yKBaLQ%3A1764253257864&source=hp&ei=SV4oaYDmMvPQ5NoP0dSWyQk&oq=is+hydrogen+fuel+practicle&gs_lp=EhFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocCIaaXMgaHlkcm9nZW4gZnVlbCBwcmFjdGljbGUyBhAAGBYYHjIHECEYoAEYCjIHECEYoAEYCjIFECEYnwUyCBAAGKIEGIkFMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFSOC7AVD6FVjgtwFwAXgAkAEAmAHoAaABlR6qAQYwLjIzLjO4AQPIAQD4AQGYAhugAsEjqAIVwgIHECMYJxjqAsICEBAuGAMYtAIY6gIYjwHYAQHCAhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AEBwgISEC4YAxi0AhjqAhgKGI8B2AEBwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAggQhttps://www.google.com/search?q=is+hydrogen+fuel+practicle&sca_esv=d8b03bc1a9f4816e&sxsrf=AE3TifPhm37c5shoxjSLARzlNtj9yKBaLQ%3A1764253257864&source=hp&ei=SV4oaYDmMvPQ5NoP0dSWyQk&oq=is+hydrogen+fuel+practicle&gs_lp=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-yVAbIHBjAuMjMuM7gHkCPCBwgzLTUuMjEuMcgHoAU&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hpABiABBixA8ICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGIoFwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYxwHCAgsQLhiABBixAxjlBMICBRAuGIAEwgIFEAAYgATCAgUQIRigAcICCBAAGIAEGKIEmAMx8QUKQXA8u9sY87oGBAgBGAqSBwYxLjIzLjOgB-yVAbIHBjAuMjMuM7gHkCPCBwgzLTUuMjEuMcgHoAU&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen Fuel Cells Drive Daimler Truck's Zero-Emission Strategy for Europe's 6 Million Trucks
November 28, 2025 0 By Tami Hood
For Karin Rådström, CEO of Daimler Truck AG, it's simple: Europe's highways should hum with zero-emission technology. Whether you're talking hydrogen fuel cells or battery-electric powertrains, her mission is to decarbonize around six million trucks plying the continent today. Under the "Stronger 2030" banner, Daimler Truck is doubling down on ambitious sustainability goals while keeping an eye on profitability—proving you don't have to sacrifice the bottom line to save the planet.

Heavy-duty transport eats up a big chunk of Europe's transport emissions. With around six million trucks on EU roads, the diesel era can't hang on much longer. Europe's regulatory push—from tighter emission rules to subsidies for clean vehicles and backing new hydrogen infrastructure—coupled with a broader drive toward sustainable energy and industrial decarbonization, lays the groundwork. Yet, trucking needs vary: the range, payload and duty cycle of a long-haul hauler aren't the same as those of a city distribution rig.

Karin Rådström makes a clear case for mixing and matching technology: battery-electric trucks where you've got charging stations and shorter hops, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles when you need longer range, heftier loads and lightning-fast refuels. That technology-neutral playbook lets fleet operators pick the right tool for each job, smoothing the way for a broader move to zero-emission technology.

The case for a dual-track approach
The beauty of running two paths in parallel is flexibility. Battery-electric powertrains excel in regional haul, urban delivery and return-to-base operations—where high-capacity charging is already sprouting up. Meanwhile, hydrogen fuel cells, like those in the Mercedes-Benz GenH2 prototypes, deliver 600+ kilometers ( 374 miles ) of range, handle heavy payloads and refill in minutes. By backing both camps, Daimler Truck protects customers from bumps in the infrastructure rollout and keeps fleets moving.

Fuel cells vs. batteries: picking your haul
Think of battery-electric trucks as the go-to for routes with RELIABLE overnight charging or fast-charging corridors. They're super-efficient, emit zero tailpipe pollution and ride on a grid that's steadily greening. On the flip side, hydrogen fuel cell rigs thrive when you can't afford long charging stops and need to cover vast distances. The only emission? Water vapor—making them a poster child for industrial decarbonization in demanding long-haul work.

Hydrogen Fuel News
Bosch and Ligier unveil hydrogen-combustion JS2 RH2 Inbox
Hydrogen Fuel News 12:01 AM 05Dec25

...What is Clean Truck Check?
Clean Truck Check is an initiative from the California Air Resource Board (CARB) that requires heavy-duty vehicles that travel in the state of California to regularly submit electronic emissions inspections. This includes both in-state and out-of-state vehicles that operate on California public roads.

More formally called Heavy Duty Inspection and Maintenance (HD I/M) — Clean Truck Check is an emissions-reduction program for diesel and alternative fuel heavy-duty vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 14,000 pounds. HD I/M applies to the trucks, buses, and motorhomes that create a majority of the emissions on the road.
Clean Truck Check Exemptions
Although most heavy-duty vehicles must abide by the CARB Clean Truck Check, some are exempt from the program.

The following vehicles do NOT need to meet these emissions requirements:

Zero-emissions vehicles

Authorized emergency vehicles

Military tactical vehicles

Motorhomes registered outside of California

Historical vehicles

Vehicles operating under an experimental permit

New vehicles with engines certified to the most stringent NOx standard (less than or equal to 0.01 g/bhp-hr)

Gasoline vehicles

Hydrogen Fuel News
Toyota Powers Up California's Hydrogen Infrastructure with FirstElement Fuel Investment
December 15, 2025 0 By Tami Hood

Wondering how to break the chicken-and-egg cycle of hydrogen adoption for heavy-duty fleets? Toyota Motor North America has stepped up with a big move, announcing a strategic investment in FirstElement Fuel Inc. The goal? Beefing up California's sprawling network—92 fueling spots across 38 locations—and supercharging the hydrogen infrastructure that keeps fuel cell electric vehicles on the road.

Scaling Up the Station Network
FirstElement Fuel has been in the driver's seat since 2013, rolling out stations from Irvine and Santa Ana down south to Livermore and Oakland up north. Backed by grants from the California Energy Commission, CARB, South Coast AQMD and Bay Area AQMD, FEF pulls in cash from automakers like Toyota Motor Corporation and Honda Motor Co., plus investors such as Mitsui & Co., MUFG, JBIC and Air Liquide. But it's not just about raw station count: nailing high-flow dispensing and a rock-solid supply chain is essential to beat range anxiety and scale up adoption.

Why Heavy-Duty Trucks Need Hydrogen

Let's face it: battery electrics still sweat when it comes to hauling heavy loads over long distances with quick turnarounds and full payloads. Hydrogen fuel cells recharge in 5–10 minutes, deliver diesel-like uptime and only produce water vapor. That's a game-changer along freight corridors like the I-710, linking the ports of LA/Long Beach to Ontario and beyond—and a major win for industrial decarbonization in one of the nation's busiest trade regions.

Partners Along the Value Chain
Toyota and FEF aren't flying solo. Air Liquide and Iwatani are teaming up to build SAE J2601/5-ready stations that handle liquid hydrogen at cryogenic temps, while Mitsui & Co. brings in Norwegian tank tech for on-truck storage. Honda has been in since day one, and Nikola Corporation locked in a 10-year deal to set up HYLA-branded heavy-duty sites in Oakland and beyond. It's a classic network effect: more trucks spurs more stations, and vice versa...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen Fuel Cell Trucks: Alberta Pilot Drives Zero-Emission Future
December 16, 2025 0 By Angela Linders

It's December 9, 2025, and Trimac
Transportation has just teamed up with the Alberta Motor Transport Association (AMTA) on a pilot destined to shake up zero-emission transportation...

...Alberta Takes the Wheel on Hydrogen
Alberta, home to roughly 4.7 million people and renowned as Canada's resource heartland, is now steering toward Hydrogen transport Alberta. Backed by fields of natural gas and a growing roster of blue and green hydrogen projects, the province's putting the Hyundai XCIENT Hydrogen Fuel Cell Truck through its paces under real, heavy-duty hauls. Through early 2026, this long-haul warrior will cycle among participating fleets, logging range, refill stops, payload impacts, and overall cost, giving us a crystal-clear view of what hydrogen fuel cell trucks can really do.

A Pioneering Collaboration
No single company could've pulled off this experiment alone. Calgary-based Trimac Transportation—a bulk-haul titan with 140 branches since 1945—teams up with Hyundai, the pioneer of commercial heavy-duty fuel cell trucks; the AMTA, which handles driver and mechanic training; and AZETEC, fine-tuning a prototype that promises more than 430 miles on one fill. Since 2022, Trimac has been experimenting with hydrogen retrofits alongside Innovative Fuel Systems and Hydra Energy, ironing out early kinks and setting the stage for today's breakthrough.

H2ICE Demonstrator Truck: Bosch's Hydrogen Heavy-Duty
H2ICE Demonstrator Truck: Bosch's Hydrogen Heavy-Duty
January 22, 2026 0 By Bret Williams
Hydrogen Fuel News
Ever wondered what the next leap in zero-emission mobility looks like? Strap in. Bosch just rolled out its H2ICE demonstrator truck, and it's rewriting the playbook on heavy-duty transport. Imagine a hydrogen-powered heavy-duty vehicle that belches zero CO₂, plugs into your operations like any other rig, and feels completely familiar. No sci-fi jargon—just rollout-ready reality.

From Problem to Possibility
Let's face it: diesel rigs keep our global supply chains humming, but they're also a major source of greenhouse-gas headaches. Sure, battery electrics work for smaller trucks, but when you're hauling tons across hundreds of kilometers, charging downtime and grid strain become deal-breakers. What we needed was a bridge between diesel's stamina and renewables' clean creds.

Enter Bosch's H2ICE (Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine). Instead of reinventing the wheel, they tweaked proven engine tech to sip green hydrogen—delivering true zero-emission mobility with familiar performance and fueling routines.

Seeing Is Believing
This month, Chancellor Friedrich Merz swung by the Bosch Bengaluru campus to watch the H2ICE demonstrator truck roar around the test track. With its integrated powertrain humming and telematics dashboard lighting up in real time, the prototype hauled massive loads like it was no big deal. The message was clear: hydrogen can shoulder the heavy stuff, right where you need it.

The Magic Ingredient?
Green Hydrogen Fuel: Made by renewable-powered electrolysis, it burns clean and only releases water vapor.
Hydrogen-Adapted Engine: Bosch's engineers modified internal-combustion hardware so it guzzles H₂ instead of diesel—keeping the same torque, range and lightning-fast refuel.
Integrated Telematics: A 4G/5G-connected diagnostics suite that tracks everything from location to predictive maintenance—no surprises down the road.
Bottom line: fill 'er up, hit the highway, monitor performance—and forget about tailpipe CO₂.

Why It Matters
This isn't just a shiny concept—it ticks every box fleets care about:

Zero tailpipe emissions—no hidden carbon footprints.
Diesel-like refuel times of just a few minutes.
Several hundred kilometers of range—perfect for regional hauls.
Plug-and-play fit with your existing logistics network.
Picture fleets cruising into low-emission zones without a second thought, then blasting down highways without charging stops. That's a real game-changer for shippers, regulators and the planet alike...

Hydrogen fuel news
Hydrogen Production Boosted by Utility Global's $100M California Biogas Initiative
February 26, 2026 0 By Tami Hood

Picture this: the dairy farm down the street powering zero-emission trucks. That's the dream Houston-based Utility Global is chasing. They just secured $100 million in a Series D round led by Ara Partners and APG Asset Management, setting the stage for a California biogas-to-hydrogen mobility project with their proprietary H2Gen® technology.

Turning Manure into Mobility
Working alongside Maas Energy Works, Utility Global is drawing biogas straight from dairy digesters at a California farm (they're keeping its name under wraps for now). Their aim? Pump out up to three tons of deeply carbon-negative hydrogen every day—no extra juice from the grid. That fuel will keep zero-emission trucks and buses buzzing along, ticking off California's mandate to have all heavy-duty vehicles go zero-emission by 2040...

Hydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen News – Green Hydrogen Report


Hydrogen Infrastructure Expansion: Hydrovia™ Energy to Roll Out 500+ Stations and Launch H₂Ai
Hydrogen Infrastructure Expansion: Hydrovia™ Energy to Roll Out 500+ Stations and Launch H₂Ai
April 26, 2026 0 By Angela Linders

Just the other week, Hydrovia™ Energy in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, rolled out a two-pronged plan to tackle two of hydrogen's biggest hurdles in the U.S.: finding refueling spots for fleets and closing the knowledge gap. They've mapped out over 500 hydrogen stations along three major east-west corridors, and at the same time launched H₂Ai, a round-the-clock, AI-powered hydrogen intelligence tool from LaunchField℠ Digital. Together, these moves are all about boosting heavy-duty operators' confidence and fast-tracking hydrogen infrastructure growth.

Network scale: Over 500 stations draping three key freight corridors coast-to-coast
Digital support: H₂Ai taps into more than 36 expert frameworks
Target audience: Class 8 haulers and big commercial fleets
Production hubs: Modular units popping up next to stations for on-site hydrogen storage
Public roadmap: An interactive deployment timeline you can explore online
Platform access: Dive into H₂Ai live at www.hydroviaenergy.com/h2ai
Bridging the Fuel Gap for Heavy-Duty Fleets
Range anxiety has been the Achilles' heel for fuel cell technology–powered rigs, thanks to spotty refueling along long stretches. By zeroing in on three major east-west arteries, Hydrovia™ Energy aims to stitch together a seamless chain of hydrogen infrastructure that mirrors today's diesel networks...

Quote from: lvmci on April 27, 2026, 06:05:49 AMHydrogen Fuel News
Hydrogen News – Green Hydrogen Report


Hydrogen Infrastructure Expansion: Hydrovia™ Energy to Roll Out 500+ Stations and Launch H₂Ai
Hydrogen Infrastructure Expansion: Hydrovia™ Energy to Roll Out 500+ Stations and Launch H₂Ai
April 26, 2026 0 By Angela Linders

Just the other week, Hydrovia™ Energy in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, rolled out a two-pronged plan to tackle two of hydrogen's biggest hurdles in the U.S.: finding refueling spots for fleets and closing the knowledge gap. They've mapped out over 500 hydrogen stations along three major east-west corridors, and at the same time launched H₂Ai, a round-the-clock, AI-powered hydrogen intelligence tool from LaunchField℠ Digital. Together, these moves are all about boosting heavy-duty operators' confidence and fast-tracking hydrogen infrastructure growth.

Network scale: Over 500 stations draping three key freight corridors coast-to-coast
Digital support: H₂Ai taps into more than 36 expert frameworks
Target audience: Class 8 haulers and big commercial fleets
Production hubs: Modular units popping up next to stations for on-site hydrogen storage
Public roadmap: An interactive deployment timeline you can explore online
Platform access: Dive into H₂Ai live at www.hydroviaenergy.com/h2ai
Bridging the Fuel Gap for Heavy-Duty Fleets
Range anxiety has been the Achilles' heel for fuel cell technology–powered rigs, thanks to spotty refueling along long stretches. By zeroing in on three major east-west arteries, Hydrovia™ Energy aims to stitch together a seamless chain of hydrogen infrastructure that mirrors today's diesel networks...

I was speaking with a guy at Stewart and Stevenson Friday about a another problem, he was telling me two large South Korean construction equipment manufactures Hunyadi and Devlon are introducing Hydrogen for off road equipment. The owner of Stewart and Stevenson Kirby which is a large barge transportation co on the Mississippi other rivers and costal water ways are developing tugboats using Hydrogen for power, I can see Kirby just adding another barge for fuel since they transport Hydrogen already with their barges, Hydrogen is coming Cat train engines have been using it for years, I see those at the BNSF yard in Needles Ca         

I guess we can all assume that major earthly events like the choking of the strait of Hormuz & other strategic middle east waterway transportation routes lead to more priority on alternate fuel sources whatever they may be.

Quote from: dtcerrato on April 27, 2026, 11:44:41 AMI guess we can all assume that major earthly events like the choking of the strait of Hormuz & other strategic middle east waterway transportation routes lead to more priority on alternate fuel sources whatever they may be.

yep I paid over 12 bucks for 2 gals of diesel a hour ago for my little tractor lol it is going on a diet for awhile, it can wait for the 12 gals fill-up.I saw  the owner of a Prevost crying tears when paying for 185 gals   

Quote from: luvrbus on April 27, 2026, 02:41:44 PMyep I paid over 12 bucks for 2 gals of diesel a hour ago for my little tractor lol it is going on a diet for awhile, it can wait for the 12 gals fill-up.I saw  the owner of a Prevost crying tears when paying for 185 gals   

I'm about to cry like a really bothered baby all the way up to Alaska from Florida come mid May. I'd cancel the trip but it's our tenth year since we bought the property up there and this summer I plan to finish the little place we built up there so we can fly  going forward. Will be running our 4104 pulling a trailer load - OUCH!

Quote from: dtcerrato on April 27, 2026, 05:22:27 PMI'm about to cry like a really bothered baby all the way up to Alaska from Florida come mid May. I'd cancel the trip but it's our tenth year since we bought the property up there and this summer I plan to finish the little place we built up there so we can fly  going forward. Will be running our 4104 pulling a trailer load - OUCH!

WTI oil open today at $102.00 a barrel we won't have a break in May or June ,the Hydrogen people better get going. My stand is not political, but the US needs to get of the global oil market so the flare ups in the world don't affect our prices at home, it works in the middle east where people pay $.15 a gal for fuel