I have access to a 1999 MCI 102 DL3 for $5,000. The front suspension support towers are rotten, but the 60 Series engine only has 238K miles and the Allison B500 has about 457K miles on it. I'm looking at potentially purchasing a 1970 MCI MC7 with the 8V71 in it. Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to swap the Series 60 power plant in to the MC7?
I've thought about converting MCI 102 but I can't get a straight answer from anyone on an idea what it would cost to replace the front tower.
TIA
60 series is longer and taller. ch clearance on tag axle for trans clearance. cooling is major fab job.
@ 457,000 miles that B500 is going to need to be rebuilt! For that money I'd walk away, an never look back!
;D BK ;D
I know a busnut that did it and he added 2 or 3 feet to the length. It worked out really well but MAJOR work.
Gentlemen! Gentlemen! (And I use that term loosely lol!)
Anything can be done, all it takes is an unlimited budget and a creative shop such as B&B CoachWorks was. Ok well, good luck with that then. If you can come up with above, go for it!
Sounds like an interesting idea but it also sounds like it's much more trouble than it's worth that you'll cry about later. I'm all but certain there are better buses for you out there.
The MCi 7 has a huge engine compartment a 12v71 will fit ,the cargo model.would be no problem with the one side radiator
The problem the guy had that did it was engine vibration. He had to increase the idle speed to smooth it out
Series 60 vibrate at idle most you can tap the cruise increasing the rpm and it goes away people are spoiled by the 2 strokes idle,I miss it
When doing an engine swap (which will be more and more common), there is no reason to use a big block engine like a Cummins N14 or ISX15, or Series 60, or Cat C15. Medium block are sufficient power like Cummins ISX12 or ISM, Cat C12 or C13. I would even consider a Cummins ISC 8.9 liter turned up to 450hp and 1250lb/ft torque. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: luvrbus on October 06, 2022, 07:39:09 AM
Series 60 vibrate at idle most you can tap the cruise increasing the rpm and it goes away people are spoiled by the 2 strokes idle,I miss it
Tom is correct. Plus, these new CUMMINS engines have a nice smooth idle. Yes the 71-92 were pretty much unmatched in terms of smoothness but these newer 4 strokes have come a long way in terms of smooth operation over the last 20 years. I'll bet even the now departed SERIES 50 4 cylinder would have been smoothed out had it still been built today.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on October 06, 2022, 10:19:33 AM
Tom is correct. Plus, these new CUMMINS engines have a nice smooth idle. Yes the 71-92 were pretty much unmatched in terms of smoothness but these newer 4 strokes have come a long way in terms of smooth operation over the last 20 years. I'll bet even the now departed SERIES 50 4 cylinder would have been smoothed out had it still been built today.
I own a late model ISX 15 Cummins no way is it a smooth idle,lol I can deal with for power though,the ISX 12 was developed for buses fwiw and I don't care for it very much,any engine like the series 50 with balance shafts never were very smooth.People that owned the ISC never were happy with that engine my son in law had one in a RV,the 8.9 was a good engine till Cummins started producing the engine in China
The New Flyer buses we ran at work with the Cummins L10 vibrated so bad the union got involved. The windows rattled so bad it came down to Drivers refusing to drive them. They soon raised the idle speed to smooth the engine a little. Some windows still rattled but not near as bad. I remember another issue we had was a defrost motor that was so loud it had to be replaced.
Back in 1985, MCTS(Milwaukee) had 150 RTS's with 8V-71's and 6 of them had 6V-92's. Well they took 2 of the 8V-71 powered buses and as an experiment, placed an L10/VOITH combo for a few years. I made a point to ride one. Yes it did have much vibration but it seemed fine in performance. They put the 8V-71 back in those buses a few years later but they ordered 1987 NEOPLAN 440's with 20 with the L10 and the other 36 with the 6V-92. The L10 seemed to be much smoother this time around. They had several NEW FLYERS with the S50 and those things were rough. I did ride an MC9 with the S50 and it was much smoother than the NEW FLYER transit S50 so perhaps they did improve it late in it's lifecycle.
The city of El Paso won a suit and replaced all the series 50 (CNG engines) in the New Flyer with Cummins (CNG) engines DD agreed to pay,Stewart and Stevenson in El Paso had a pile of series 50 DD with holes knocked through the blocks
We had a lot of issues with the New Flyer buses. The last thing was to replace all the ZF trans with V731 and a reverser between the engine and trans. The ZF would only last a month or so with all the stop and start of transit use. $25k for a rebuild so that made the V731 a viable option.
It just amazes me how the transit buses used the 6-71 or 6V-71 with just a 2 speed Allison transmission from 1946 (?) until 1977 when the V730 came out. Talk about rugged engines and transmissions-I imagine hundreds of thousands successfully used. Good Luck, TomC
They were high maintenance though when I would visit my buddy at Houston Metro they would have 20 to 30 rebuilt ready for change outs the 6v71's were good for about 80 to 100 k miles and the Vs and super VS were hit and miss.He was a happy camper to see the 8v71 and the v730, then he had to hire welders to keep the frame welded on the new buses I forgot who made the buses .Tom the 2 speeds were not made by Allision
those were made by GM fwiw
Quote from: luvrbus on October 09, 2022, 10:29:55 AM
Tom, the 2 speeds were not made by Allision, those were made by GM.
Clifford -Hmmmm. . . Then why does the VH/VS service manual that I have say "Allison Transmission Division, General Motors Corporation" on the inside front page?
I don't why yours say that or why mine says made by GMC Truck and Coach ,I know I could never buy the solenoids from Allison always had to get those from large GMC truck dealer.I was always told the VS was designed by GM but it could have been built by Allison I don't know for sure,it was around for years even with the problems,the guys at S/S called it the Power/Glide for buses,
I change one to V730 in a Fishbowl once the guy couldn't find the right fluid and used Dexron
GM owned ALLISON(sold them in 2007) back then so if you called it one or another it was pretty much academic. I think that GM stressed the ALLISON name when they sold the transmissions to competing bus builders same with DETROIT DIESEL vs. GM.
On my AMGeneral 10240B, the B was second generation based on the Flyer D800-which was a T drive. But all transit companies were using V drives, so AMGeneral built the transit bus with V drive. But the offset weight and all the weight at the rear end caused the engine cradle to crack. Hence on the B model like I had, you could see all sorts of reinforcing triangles and other shapes welded into the frame to keep the cradle in one piece. The original 8V-71 had 254hp and 680lb/ft torque. After turbocharging and air to air aftercooling, it put out 375hp and 1125lb/ft torque. It performed about like an MC-5. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on October 11, 2022, 08:25:56 AM
GM owned ALLISON(sold them in 2007) back then so if you called it one or another it was pretty much academic. I think that GM stressed the ALLISON name when they sold the transmissions to competing bus builders same with DETROIT DIESEL vs. GM.
Yep I have valve covers that have GMC.GM and Detroit embossed on the covers