How many of you guys like those as the heading says,Az is nuts using round and round things, when going from Camp Verde to Cottonwood (9 miles) they have 7 of the dumb things in 6 miles.The Oak Valley going to Sedona is even worse from I 17 what is the purpose?
Haven't driven them in a bus yet so that might be a little different but they are fairly common locally. Some people love 'em, some people hate 'em. I'm in favor. Generally there is no need to stop when going through unless some brainless wonder up ahead can't tell they don't have stop signs on them. You watch traffic, pick your spot, and smoothly merge in. No real problem. Generally people make room if they have to. Much quicker than stopping and waiting for a light.
Jim
Roundabouts are fun! I grew up with them, so they're no big deal. I'm always amazed that so many Americans hate them or don't understand them or are afraid of them. There's good reason that they're ubiquitous everywhere else: they're safer and they cause less disruption to traffic flow than stop signs or traffic lights. When I'm riding my bicycle I much prefer a roundabout instead of the anarchic free-for-all of 4-way stop signs here, where it seems that the size and cost of the car or SUV determines who goes first, assuming they even bother to stop at all. I did however see one roundabout in CA that had traffic lights on it, which is just plain stupid!
John
Roundabouts are not to bad. just a little rough when you go strait through.
uncle ned
Quote from: uncle ned on August 02, 2022, 01:29:56 PM
Roundabouts are not to bad. just a little rough when you go strait through.
uncle ned
LOL!!!
They've added lots of them in Wisconsin. Statistic show that they increase traffic flow and decrease accidents, especially T-bone type accidents.
Around here, even after a decade or more since the current spate of round-about construction, people simply don't know how to drive through one. Not at all uncommon to see drivers coming to a complete stop, even when no traffic is coming on the circle. Then you've got drivers who insist on waiting till there is no traffic on the circle at all, seemingly unaware that they're expected to merge into the openings between cars to drive through them.
Driving the bus through the smaller ones around here was always fun since they were built too small and you had to jump the sloped curb in the center with your rear tires (they are designed for trucks to do that). Or, the two lane round-abouts they built near my house where you're forced to switch from the outer lane to the inner lane halfway around the circle to reach the exit you want. With the bus I usually took both lanes going through those, like most of the truck drivers are doing so they can prevent someone trying to skirt around them in the blind spot.
Conceptually I like them, but I do wish the road builders around here built them big enough for the traffic they're expected to handle (especially on marked truck routes.)
Most round abouts in AZ have no traffic feeding from the sides just the stright through traffic, it is just stupid we have one in the middle of the desert at Golden Shores there is no traffic in Golden Valley, Houston where I grew up had a few back in the 50's era lol I hated the one at Washburn Tunnel going across the Ship channel to Pasadena
There was a big traffic circle (as we used to call it) in the '70s at the turn off to Banff off the Trans Canada Hwh. The Japanese tourists in the rental cars often went around it the wrong way because they drive on the left over there. Entertaining! You had to watch out for them...
Clifford, get used to them. They are everywhere now.
it's like why are we the only major country in the world to use inches and feet while the rest of the world figured out metric was a bit easier to use. Ditto for roundabouts. Only Americans enter one and scream WTF, what do I do? LOL
I drove truck in Iraq back in 05 and 06 they had some huge roundabouts there I'm guessing 1/4 mile in diameter maybe a bit smaller anyway they were big enough to have people selling truck/car tires, gas/diesel mostly in 5 gallon plastic jugs, propane, fruits etc around the inside and outside the roundabout. Here is a couple of picture not of the roundabout but what these little businesses looked like I was busy driving around them to take pictures of them.
I'm opposed to the ones with no curb or landscaping. Why?
Because I have seen several people drive over the middle. The one I'm thinking of is just a domed shaped piece of concrete.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 02, 2022, 11:51:13 AM
How many of you guys like those ...........
Put me in the "Like 'em" camp. They're getting more and more common up here and - as someone has already pointed out - unless you get behind a nimrod who thinks they're a stop sign they can be pretty efficient. There's one by the Victoria Airport where they've stuck two of them side by side like a figure 8. That one got my attention the first time I saw it but even it works pretty well. Mexicans love 'em but they make great big bastards with 5,6,7 exits heading off at odd angles. Get stuck in one of them with 3 or 4 lanes and you may have to go round twice to get out again.
I dislike them. It always seem they are an accident waiting to happen. Relying on other drivers awareness is dangerous, lvmci...
Interesting chatter about these traffic engineering marvels. Personally, I'd love to have a go at the Magic Roundabout in England - watch the clip below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafx_GGHqVg&t=6s
They are ok in certain areas but the main problem is that many dumb dumbs don't know how to use them properly. The people already in the roundabout have the right of way. You can circle the thing all day if you want but you still have to wait your turn to enter. Lesser traveled roads are ideal for these otherwise they can congest.
Quote from: RJ on August 03, 2022, 04:13:59 AM
Interesting chatter about these traffic engineering marvels. Personally, I'd love to have a go at the Magic Roundabout in England - watch the clip below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafx_GGHqVg&t=6s
That's just mental.
Jim
The first roundabout that i ever saw was in Bangkok while on R&R from Vietnam in 71. I had hired a car with a driver for the week and he took me around town. We went thru this thing which seemed huge to me with a lot of lanes and a lot of traffic. Seemed like we went around it about 3 times before we got out of it! At the time i couldn't figure out how it worked, all i saw was chaos. :) Later on the guy scared the crap out of me....we were going about 50 miles an hour down a narrow alley with a bus coming at us and just as we got to it he cut into a small wide spot that you couldn't see until you were right there. Thought for sure we were gonna be a hood ornament......he just laughed.
I am not a fan you are running 70 MPH and come up to a 35 mph circle ,on the lower Verde road they have 2 of the damn things in 300 ft of each other
Here in Nampa, Idaho (20 miles west of Boise) you can tell when traffic is getting heavier. First is a 4 way stop sign. Then they change it to a round about (that are
almost too tight to get my Kenworth around), then they change it to a signal.
The problem is it takes months to build the round abouts. But once done, they are much faster than 4 way stop signs. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on August 03, 2022, 05:19:57 AM
That's just mental.
Jim
Yes, that would take some getting used to. Almost like a couple roundabouts within a grand roundabout.
Works the opposite on 89a from I 17 through Oak Creek on Sat and Sun they back up traffic for miles a 2 hour drive is now a 4 hour trip,those round about cost a million dollars to build here in AZ probably more in other areas.They would be all right in subdivision or maybe a city street but on major highways naw makes no sense to me,they were going to do some on 95 I live off from but people stopped ADOT from building the round abouts here
Roundabout beats the hell out of being stopped for a red light, just because the timer went off.
And they are good for catching the distracted, the drunk, or otherwise incompetant amongst us.
If they drive over the middle of the circle, with all that preceding signage... sure glad i wasn't broken down in the live lane in front of 'em!!!
Just some change to get used to, and practice getting the bus thru the obstacle course unscathed.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
We really liked them when we were in Ireland in 2005 they had them everywhere but unlike in Kansas people don't stop when going into them. They are used to them there and just egress into them and move to an inner lane if needed and then out as they need to leave and out. Very fast way to get around.
Here people stop and wait to get in and then freak out when they don't get it and cut people off when trying to get out, LOL
Some one has to yield they have signs that tell you to yield , the dumb asses with ADOT here have the main stream traffic yielding to the arterial streets when a truck comes out and blocks the lane you stop,ps most of drivers here are from CA and it makes for a show.I understand the concept, it is about price so they can waste money on other BS
Quote from: luvrbus on August 03, 2022, 05:43:35 PM
Some one has to yield they have signs that tell you to yield , the dumb asses with ADOT here have the main stream traffic yielding to the arterial streets when a truck comes out and blocks the lane you stop,ps most of drivers here are from CA and it makes for a show.I understand the concept, it is about price so they can waste money on other BS
Price, and safety. Statistically speaking there are fewer accidents and those that do occur are less serious/deadly.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 03, 2022, 05:43:35 PM
it is about price so they can waste money on other BS
Yep they sure seems to be doing that these days, LOL :^
not roundabout related, but I like the flashing yellow lights to warn the upcoming traffic light is about to change. very prevalent in Canada and Alaska. Only a few I've seen back home.
I have had traffic control lighting on some Walmart's contracts they can cost upwards of $500,000 plus it is estimated one cost $5,000 per year for power + maintenance,safety is BS bottom line it's saves money lol but cites will spend Walmart's money for traffic lights and lane widening
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 03, 2022, 08:23:47 PM
not roundabout related, but I like the flashing yellow lights to warn the upcoming traffic light is about to change. very prevalent in Canada and Alaska. Only a few I've seen back home.
We have those on 95 north of Wickenburg they are nice when driving a RV
Quote from: luvrbus on August 03, 2022, 08:33:53 PM
I have had traffic control lighting on some Walmart's contracts they can cost upwards of $500,000 plus it is estimated one cost $5,000 per year for power + maintenance,safety is BS bottom line it's saves money lol but cites will spend Walmart's money for traffic lights and lane widening
This might explain installing a roundabout on a brand new intersection, but price cannot justify replacing an existing intersection with traffic controls with a brand new roundabout. In these situations (which are the majority around here) the cheaper route is to keep things as they are and not rebuild with a roundabout.
Here's a summary from WIDOT:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/safety/safety-eng/roundabouts/faq.aspx
There are also lots of articles addressing just the safety aspects. Very few fatalities on roundabouts as compared to traditional intersections, with a near-total reduction in the number of T-bone collisions which often kill people.
Quote from: richard5933 on August 04, 2022, 03:24:09 AM
This might explain installing a roundabout on a brand new intersection, but price cannot justify replacing an existing intersection with traffic controls with a brand new roundabout. In these situations (which are the majority around here) the cheaper route is to keep things as they are and not rebuild with a roundabout.
Here's a summary from WIDOT:
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/safety/safety-eng/roundabouts/faq.aspx
There are also lots of articles addressing just the safety aspects. Very few fatalities on roundabouts as compared to traditional intersections, with a near-total reduction in the number of T-bone collisions which often kill people.
Wi has more round abouts than any state in the US a,4 way instersection with stop or yield signs are the most dangerous, when it gets down to it dumb drivers cause accidents. I am just saying they don't need to be on a major highway where 18 wheelers take both lanes to get around one, they do add to travel time could be they are trying to slow the EVs down :-*.The figure 8 round abouts make no sense to me
If you want to see the latest in intersection design, look at the double diverging diamonds, if you don't pay attention you'll think you or the vehicle approaching are a wrong way driver
Quote from: niles500 on August 04, 2022, 06:34:33 AM
If you want to see the latest in intersection design, look at the double diverging diamonds, if you don't pay attention you'll think you or the vehicle approaching are a wrong way driver
First time through one of these was a bit freaky - I agree with your view on these. But after a few times through it's easy to see how efficient they are. On a bicycle it was even better, eliminating lots of the problems spots crossing over a freeway intersection.
I went through one in Haymarket VA which was very well laid out, and the placement of landscaping virtually prevented you from seeing the oncoming traffic which can confuse drivers like you describe.
I did the Cottowood route back in January in my Eagle with my towed. Had to go slow through them, but no problem otherwise.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 04, 2022, 06:19:28 AM
Wi has more round abouts than any state in the US a,4 way instersection with stop or yield signs are the most dangerous, when it gets down to it dumb drivers cause accidents. I am just saying they don't need to be on a major highway where 18 wheelers take both lanes to get around one, they do add to travel time could be they are trying to slow the EVs down :-*.The figure 8 round abouts make no sense to me
Hmm wait until they install charging stations in the middle!
;D BK ;D
When applied properly, roundabouts or traffic circles work well. Of course you can not always depend on our officials to only put them in the right place. As far as I understand, the US once had lots of roundabouts but they did not work out. At the time, the law was that the feeder lanes had the right of way, which as you can imagine could be ridiculous. Some countries just changed who had the right of way, and it worked out well. We, on the other hand, ripped them out completely.
Quote from: David Anderson on August 04, 2022, 09:25:43 AM
I did the Cottowood route back in January in my Eagle with my towed. Had to go slow through them, but no problem otherwise.
The route from Verde Valley to Cottonwood is not bad yet with 7 round abouts in 6 miles you have no side traffic merging they are mostly barricaded for future use,Sedona through Oak Canyon is a bitch
Could be that there is Federal money from some obscure energy saving program, paying for some of this.
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 04, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
Could be that there is Federal money from some obscure energy saving program, paying for some of this.
You know there is federal dollars involved ,I have saw the signs before
You want a roundabout--I'll give you a roundabout!
Jack
(https://i.postimg.cc/25c53P9c/z8.jpg)
What would be the purpose in that one :^
Maybe a great fishing hole but I don't see anyone fishing. How about "beam me up Scotty" lol okay Jack give it up already ???!?
We need more of them. It slows down traffic so vehicles coming in have a chance.
One of those "future expansion" things?
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.explicit.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.BDt4COsc6NyUqBCMyVd9XwHaEj%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Dog bone round about going in our town. How is that going to work out?
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9475034,-90.3705379,19.02z
Galesburg Illinois. Been there like forever in the middle of town.
The Melbo
Seems like every small town in Texas used to be centered around the town square, and many of them were nothing more than a squared off traffic circle, complete with yield signs and one-way traffic.
Most Mexican towns have a town square that traffic circles around,, The taxi's hang around these squares waiting for fares..>>>Dan
Quote from: richard5933 on August 05, 2022, 12:23:00 PM
Seems like every small town in Texas used to be centered around the town square, and many of them were nothing more than a squared off traffic circle, complete with yield signs and one-way traffic.
Towns in Texas still have court house squares they are not busy most of the time and people are shopping not driving ,thru traffic is on one end of the squares not round and round I only traveled to 1 town that had a intersection in the middle of the square
Quote from: luvrbus on August 05, 2022, 03:28:46 PM
Towns in Texas still have court house squares they are not busy most of the time and people are shopping not driving ,thru traffic is on one end of the squares not round and round I only traveled to 1 town that had a intersection in the middle of the square
I went to college in Denton and I remember using the town square regularly as a way to get through town. Back then many of the streets near the square were one-way and the only convenient way to some of them was by going around the square.
As a native Texan I remember in the small towns they would have framers' markets on the square and street dances on holidays, they still do in the small towns in central Texas,The squares were like a park where people hung out