If you were to convert another bus from scratch, what would you do differently based on what you learned from your last bus conversion?
This is very helpful to people converting their first bus of course. Lets hear your ideas.
I would start with something that DID NOT HAVE A TWO STROKE !!! >>>Dan
I'd give myself a head start like beginning the build when I was 60 rather than 70 so I'd have more time to enjoy all my work. Jack
Ask me in about a year... at this rate I regret not purchasing one already done, and re-doing the things I dont like.
We did our one & only current bus 43 years ago and would do it all over again. I could say it would have been nice to have an 8V with an AT but I won't because our antique keeps us on our game as we do lots of mountain diving.
My first was a 62 GMC 4106 with the 4 speed,,, first trip out across the state of Utah and Idaho and return produced a huge blister on my shifting hand.. Within 30 days it had an automatic installed.. Start using the coach ASAP while doing the conversion,, the attention you get will boost your confidence in what you are doing..>>>Dan
What would I do differently?
Start 20 years earlier. Or more. My biggest regret was not doing the bus thing early enough before my back went on strike so I could get more years of enjoyment out of it.
I had looked for a 102C3 from MCI. With either a 4 stroker or two stroke. The 4 stroke had a single big radiator and intercooler, was my preference. Found two 4 strokes. But both had rust issues. I would, with hindsight, have spent the 4 to 5 K more for the 4 strokes, that were in good shape...
I would never advise anyone today to do a full conversion from scratch unless you have a bus conversion already and want unique features and know what's involved time and money. If it is a new person, buy an already converted bus x100!
This topic has been discussed so often that if you want to enjoy bus conversion life just get one done, in solid shape, then decide later if you want to DIY or maybe just modify/upgrade what you have. There are so many sad stories of conversions starting with the best intentions then life just has a way to throw off the plans. Never finished, never experienced the dream. Just don't!
First I need to say that in the 20 plus years of being the this crazy game I have no regrets with mine (4) 4106's. Now if I was starting from square one I would not be looking for a GM with a transverse engine, your options for engine replacement is limited. Only two cycle available (yes there is one four cycle left hand Cummings that will fit) and the way air quality is going not sure how much longer they will be legal "CA" (I hope for my life time). Parts and mechanics that know how to turn wrenches are getting harder to find.
First I need to say that in the 20 plus years of being the this crazy game I have no regrets with mine (4) 4106's. Now if I was starting from square one I would not be looking for a GM with a transverse engine, your options for engine replacement is limited. Only two cycle available (yes there is one four cycle left hand Cummings that will fit) and the way air quality is going not sure how much longer they will be legal "CA" (I hope for my life time). Parts and mechanics that know how to turn wrenches are getting harder to find.
Being one of those crazies starting from scratch, the one thing I'd try to do differently is to be more selective in the purchase of the bus in the first place. Now don't get me wrong, if I'd spent more money (and I'm pretty sure I would have had to) to get a better bus I'm quite sure I'd have run out before getting finished. But it would be nice to have a bus that had never been high centered (evidence of damage is revealed by looking underneath) and that had flat and straight signboards. These are admittedly picky details on a low budget build and mostly cosmetic at that, but they are nigh well impossible to remedy after the fact. So I'll just have to live with it, which I can do.
Other than that everything is working out well. I'm finishing up the inside cabinets, just bought a water heater and a 50 gallon propane tank (ouch) and am on track to bolt down the water tank and then order the plastic to build the waste tanks. I was able to re-purpose an oversized pallet into a 90 degree buck for assembly and welding and I have drawings here somewhere so I think everything else is ready. Good chance that by spring I'll be driving it. I'm not sure if this means I will meet the goal of my 5 year build deadline but that really doesn't matter as much as finishing the job does.
I've cut into my reserves, and will do so again but most of the big ticket items are here now or are paid for. Still outstanding are: Plastic for the tanks (and possibly for the shower enclosure), a proper inverter, aircon compressors, and finally house batteries and new tires. I will have to be careful with my shopping but in the end, after all expenses and including the initial purchase price of the bus my cost is going to fall somewhere in the $15-20K range. Now if anyone can show me a 4 stroke conversion I can buy for that money I'd love to see it. Admittedly I'm not including the labor value. That would skew things dramatically, but it's been a project that I have enjoyed so I'm not really counting that. If the time comes when I want to sell it will I recover my expenses? I'd say there should be a fair chance of that but who knows? Probably never happen anyway.
Jim
Don't build a conversion. So many for sale to choose from already done. Buy one today, go camping tonight.
Hats off to you Jim. you have the spirit and drive of those OG busnuts from the 90's. Today, you are a rare breed. You are one who is enjoying the journey as much as the destination. Back to Gary's original recommendation. The vast majority will be better off financially and timewise to buy one already done and drive it today. If you buy right, you have a fixed upfront cost, allow for some maintenance and personal upgrades and you are good to go. Again, hats off to you but all others read the warning sign at the beginning of the trail.
One other perspective. If your goal is not to achieve the typical full on bus conversion but a far more modest conversion than that is a different disciussion entirely. Many today are doing the basic skoolie gut and put some basic stuff in and off they go in a few months but that is a different animal.
would have kept the 4104 had it been an automatic. Manuals of those Era are are a pita starting out on a hill or backing up a grade, plus in traffic, or trying to get back into gear when hot, when long traffic light finally changes. Always wanted a Buffalo, but only with an automatic. Bought it already converted. They'll be enough to do over the years maintaining and alternating to keep you occupied. In the early days, used conversions were far and few between, and pretty costly to buy one when it became available. Used shells were pretty expensive too.
So you're sayin' what, that I'm some sort of Bohemian Renaissance man or something? Well hell if the Foo shits I guess. I just was never one to sit on my hands and expect someone else to do it.
Jim
I'm too new at it to have regrets. But I'm sure they will come.
I have been working steadily on the project since December 2020.
Hoping to be finished this fall.
Spend a bit more time and money looking before buying LOL!!!
Yeah Fred, a valid point. However I feel I did about the best I could have done under the circumstances. Being a retiree the budget is limited and time passes by. Yet here I am and in pretty good shape for the shape I'm in. Same could be said for the bus. It's a one shot deal, gotta make it count and the single very biggest consideration is to finish the job. Everything else has to be balanced against that including budget overruns. I'll say it again, I'd like to see the 4 stroke conversion I could buy for $20K. Pretty sure it wouldn't have a few things that I do.
And have you noticed that we have several new DL conversions going on right now? I think that speaks volumes for the quality of newbies dipping their toes in the water. We'd all just love to be able to go out and just buy the conversion that we want, but for many of us for a variety of reasons that just isn't possible. The ones doing the new builds surely aren't very different from the old timers that started this whole thing in the first place.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on July 25, 2022, 02:16:50 PM
So you're sayin' what, that I'm some sort of Bohemian Renaissance man or something? Well hell if the Foo shits I guess. I just was never one to sit on my hands and expect someone else to do it.
Jim
Hi Jim,Could you clarify your comment? I meant nothing derogatory in my post and apologize if I offended you. Maybe you were making a joke?
Yeah, it was a joke Don, no anxiety intended.
Jim
Installed a 3406 Cat engine instead of the 8v92, when I drove my Eagle bus home for 1200 miles the 8v71 and the 4 speed manual transmission was the first thing to go
Just like Tony's bus with 3406B, I LOVE my Caterpillar 3406B. Even though I do not have overdrive anymore, with 11R-24.5 (476rpm) and 3.55 gears my 60mph cruise is 1690rpm. If I want better fuel mileage, I just drive at 1600. 1800 (continuous rating) is 64mph. I would like to have an overdrive-Meritor makes a 3 spd air shifted auxiliary box called the Fat-30. Gears- 2.50, 1.00, .86 overdrive. Can take 30,000lb/ft input torque. My 3406B has 1375lb/ft torque maximum, and if I multiply it by 2.25 torque converter, and 3.692 first gear I still only come up with 11,422lb/ft torque-so not even close. Just something to consider instead of changing the rear end gear ratio. My 1800rpm cruise would come down to 1548. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on August 01, 2022, 10:14:14 PM
Just like Tony's bus with 3406B, I LOVE my Caterpillar 3406B. Even though I do not have overdrive anymore, with 11R-24.5 (476rpm) and 3.55 gears my 60mph cruise is 1690rpm. If I want better fuel mileage, I just drive at 1600. 1800 (continuous rating) is 64mph. I would like to have an overdrive-Meritor makes a 3 spd air shifted auxiliary box called the Fat-30. Gears- 2.50, 1.00, .86 overdrive. Can take 30,000lb/ft input torque. My 3406B has 1375lb/ft torque maximum, and if I multiply it by 2.25 torque converter, and 3.692 first gear I still only come up with 11,422lb/ft torque-so not even close. Just something to consider instead of changing the rear end gear ratio. My 1800rpm cruise would come down to 1548. Good Luck, TomC
I would want a 3406 C,I recall Sonnie installed a 3406A in Tony's 350 hp he had a choice between the a or the 425 hp B and went with A for the difference in price.My 8v92 was better in the mountains but was no contest on level ground with the 2:95 gears in that bus.FWIW that was a afer cooled 3406 till we change it to CAC changing to the CAC made a huge different in performance
Then Tony blew it up!!..>>>Dan
After all the campers, trailers, & RVs that I have owned before the bus purchase - if I had the experience & the knowledge of how robust a severe duty commercial bus was I would have went the bus route first because it's the 1st & only RV (conversion) I have owned that I literally couldn't overload it like I did and paid for dearly all of the earlier predecessors.
I would not have let the bus sit long periods during the conversion process w/o finding a way to exercise it, keeping the seals lubricated & happy, tires rolling, etc. I know not to leave the bus sitting for months at a time while I have the conversion out in the driveway, garage, or wherever, but for some reason I did not think of that during the conversion process and I'm certain I've paid for that oversight. Wouldn't change anything else. The bus conversion journey has been a blast and I've learned a ton of things along the way. Not to mention wonderful friends, travels, experiences, and of course the sound of those beautiful diesel engines. ;D
Kind Regards, Phil
One of my main regrets is that I wished that my current project bus had come along about 2 years earlier. I bought a '74 converted MCI for 25 grand and regret the day I bought it. It's actually a pretty nice bus and drives great, but: 1. I didn't do the conversion (trying to troubleshoot someone else's work can be frustrating); 2. The engine now has an overheating problem; 3. I have a brake can issue and other issues too. That being said, if I had the opportunity to get my '02 sooner, I would have saved a lot of money. The way I justify this in my brain is that since I got the '02 for $1000 and was able to get nearly $2000 for the recycled materials that I removed from it, I'm ahead on that, but of course I need to spend a lot of money to convert it. At 60 years old, we cannot wait for the perfect deal to come along, because you might be waiting until it's too late to start such a project. I've owned 6 buses now with hopes of converting one from scratch within my lifetime. I bought the '74 thinking it was getting too late in life, then the '02 literally fell into my lap (I wasn't even in the market for one). I'm going for it, but I know I'll have to do something with the '74 eventually, if and when I get the '02 completed. Oh well, it's always good to have a project in front of us to keep us young.
That's right Glen, you need to stay busy. But there's a comfortable range it's probably best not to go too far from if you can help it. And you are right, time is not on our side.
However, I'm really glad I waited until I could afford to buy a bus that: had a tall roof so I didn't have to do a roof raise; had a 4 stroke engine; had a good automatic transmission; had an auxiliary heater; had r134 in the AC (although that is becoming less of an issue with the r290); had good solid floors; had attractive overhead bins; and had alloy wheels. It made the conversion just that much easier and widened my choices for options.
Jim