I just watched a very sad YouTube channel video about a couple where the husband died when a RV towing a car got stuck on a road where they couldn't turn on a road deteriorated to the point that it got stuck and then they got lost and stuck in the towed car trying to drive out.
The theory is the GPS lead them astray. Here's the video if you need reinforcement after my summery and can stomach it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SvuZ_y75EU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SvuZ_y75EU)
I think every family group should invest in a Emergency Satellite Communicator or two that can be shared with elders or other adventurers (aren't we all in that group?) when they take an extended trip.
Of the major satellite networks SpaceX doesn't yet offer such a solution, but the older GlobalStar and the Iridium satellite networks have a verity of such devices that are available.
Here are some links to such devices:
https://www.rei.com/product/140110/garmin-inreach-mini?sku=1401100001&store=35&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C21700000001700551_1401100001%7C92700057791438908%7CNB%7C71700000074091798&gclid=CjwKCAjw9e6SBhB2EiwA5myr9qQQwBUojQ3ibw4VoXC-Dii-qq233o92Y4or6x0982Bl0Yt-LGmghBoCi3MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.rei.com/product/140110/garmin-inreach-mini?sku=1401100001&store=35&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C21700000001700551_1401100001%7C92700057791438908%7CNB%7C71700000074091798&gclid=CjwKCAjw9e6SBhB2EiwA5myr9qQQwBUojQ3ibw4VoXC-Dii-qq233o92Y4or6x0982Bl0Yt-LGmghBoCi3MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
https://www.bluecosmo.com/zoleo-satellite-communicator.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw9e6SBhB2EiwA5myr9uhmTF4BWbTVqlzJ5YScWMFAieJtWrPC4db-ZrsMyEm60lW0Hy3lrRoCwNAQAvD_BwE (https://www.bluecosmo.com/zoleo-satellite-communicator.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw9e6SBhB2EiwA5myr9uhmTF4BWbTVqlzJ5YScWMFAieJtWrPC4db-ZrsMyEm60lW0Hy3lrRoCwNAQAvD_BwE)
https://www.rei.com/product/172306/spot-x-with-bluetooth?sku=1723060001&store=35&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C21700000001700551_1723060001%7C92700057791438938%7CNB%7C71700000074091798&gclid=CjwKCAjw9e6SBhB2EiwA5myr9j27w-hKwWWU1tOB_Qj_ZUXUf5J2S0MibcfSVH38O_Cjz-ZnmOfeHhoCMCoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.rei.com/product/172306/spot-x-with-bluetooth?sku=1723060001&store=35&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C21700000001700551_1723060001%7C92700057791438938%7CNB%7C71700000074091798&gclid=CjwKCAjw9e6SBhB2EiwA5myr9j27w-hKwWWU1tOB_Qj_ZUXUf5J2S0MibcfSVH38O_Cjz-ZnmOfeHhoCMCoQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/products/spot-for-business/spot-gen4 (https://www.globalstar.com/en-us/products/spot-for-business/spot-gen4)
From what I read, they had gps set on walking routes. And husband must have had health issues before this happened. Wife went for help using a walker??? Still sad story.
We considered getting a satellite phone for Alaska trip this year, but decided against. We aren't doing any hiking, and breakdowns where no phone reception, the Ak. highway is fairly busy, so we should be ok. We have a decent gps too and know about routing settings. Garmin satellite phones have decent reviews, but the initial cost plus service plans make it pretty costly.
Wow - truly sad story.
When we head off the beaten path at all I try and have paper maps, and if relying on digital maps I try to download the maps rather than relying on my phone's signal which is likely to cut out when needed most.
We've looked into the Garmin devices but haven't been that far off the main roads yet to need them.
If you are interested, there are three pages of discussion on this tragedy on the Escapees RV Club site.
https://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/144448-missing-couple-in-motorhome-thought-to-be-in-nevada/ (https://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/144448-missing-couple-in-motorhome-thought-to-be-in-nevada/)
This is an unfortunate extreme instance where many things went wrong, far more than blaming poor GPS technology. I have one golden rule that was given to me when I purchased by bus. Stay on PAVED roads!
Naturally, I take my bus off tarmac but with these words of caution burned into my brain, whenever I do venture off the tarmac, it makes me stop and think twice about potential problems with the planned "off-road" detour. Doesn't matter if it is just parking off the road or taking a dirt road like these folks did, one needs to pause and think for a bit.
Just doing that doesn't mean all is fine because sh...t happens no matter what but you have at least reduced the chance of poor judgement.
People bring up a case like this and then state GPS is junk because two people made some bad decisions. Nobody brings up the tens of millions of uses of GPS every day that work just fine.
I take my bus off road every year in the Blackrock desert, but I have tons of supplies and a group of people who know how to get off the desert without GPS or a map. We also follow well traveled paths in the desert so someone else is going to come along before long if the worst happens.
Man that is so tragic.
During the pandemic highpoint the county issued a lot of Sat phones for field use since cell service is spotty but its kind of expensive for personal use.
I wonder AARP would consider providing some Sat Phone discount for seniors especially those who have health issues.
I'm sure there are programs like and similar to that. However, that could create a problem with other people wanting more free stuff hence, ruining a good idea.
How about carrier pigeon?
Well common sense and planning can go a long way. As others have said, stay on the paved roads. Buses and most cars were not designed to go on rough unpaved roads.
Ok I thought I would add a note to this thread.
Just upgraded my iPhone from a 7 to model 14 and hey what tipped me over the edge instead of the cheaper model 13 is that it now has emergency Satellite Communications via the GlobalStar Satellite network.
So hey you now have a reason to tell the powers that be that you need a new iPhone!!!
I used to have a sideline modifying GlobalStar sat phones to add a headset jack so that pilots could using them while flying. It funded adding a newer transponder in the airplane which I needed when flying east of Chicago. Old transponder would jam the phone on the eastside of the country.
Details: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426 (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213426)
We carry a Garmin 700i with inreach they are a little pricy with the satellite subscription,we venture into out of the way places and I don't trust a GPS without Topo maps since most are based on Google or Rand Mcnally maps nowdays and can get you way off.Google on my phone is terrible
Don't just take a real paper map (ideally a USGS topo), but also a decent orienteering compass and a small survival kit every time you venture off-road, anywhere. Mind you, how many people these days can even use a map and compass? How many know the declination at their location?
John
Allways read a hard copy map, don't blindly trust GPS. This was just one of many tragic instances of poor judgment.
Quote from: Iceni John on October 10, 2022, 05:19:41 PM
Don't just take a real paper map (ideally a USGS topo), but also a decent orienteering compass and a small survival kit every time you venture off-road, anywhere. Mind you, how many people these days can even use a map and compass? How many know the declination at their location?
John
How many know what declination is and that it changes?
GPS have some crazy routing, I went to a plumbing supply in Cottonwood my phone routed me through a sub division 5 turns on different streets when all I needed to do was go a 1/2 block turn left and the supply house was a block down on the corner
There was a time when I would feel having a hard copy map was the best backup. Maybe it still is but today virtually everything has a battery so I'd venture to say it might be as frequent a map gets wrecked as having zero juice to power a device or having it go bad. We are talking about backups - paper map or a waterproof bombproof emergency SPOT or mapping tool like eTrek
https://youtu.be/WoIfglXAbh0
Quote from: luvrbus on October 13, 2022, 09:59:43 AM
GPS have some crazy routing, I went to a plumbing supply in Cottonwood my phone routed me through a sub division 5 turns on different streets when all I needed to do was go a 1/2 block turn left and the supply house was a block down on the corner
My wife and I did a 3 week trip this summer from Washington to Texas (using my pickup). We had a paper map, but also used GIS (on her cell phone). While traveling from Lubbock TX to Chilton TX, we ended up on a series of roads that took us off the main highway, onto a road that was very rough and gravel in some places, totally out into the boondocks with signs that say "no services for 20 miles" (or whatever), until we finally ended up on another highway that eventually took us to our destination. It was pretty weird to say the least. I'm glad we weren't in the bus, as some of the roads were pretty bad.
Quote from: Glennman on October 13, 2022, 01:07:43 PM
My wife and I did a 3 week trip this summer from Washington to Texas (using my pickup). We had a paper map, but also used GIS (on her cell phone). While traveling from Lubbock TX to Chilton TX, we ended up on a series of roads that took us off the main highway, onto a road that was very rough and gravel in some places, totally out into the boondocks with signs that say "no services for 20 miles" (or whatever), until we finally ended up on another highway that eventually took us to our destination. It was pretty weird to say the least. I'm glad we weren't in the bus, as some of the roads were pretty bad.
LOL we were about 20 miles east of San Antonio and I knew there was a WM in Sequin 10 miles east Google said there was on 4 miles from our location 30 miles later following Google we were back in San Antonio at a Walmart
Quote from: Lee Bradley on October 13, 2022, 09:57:39 AM
How many know what declination is and that it changes?
The "official" declination (from the NOAA) for my home ZIPcode is 11 degrees 28 minutes East, but there are several websites quoting up to 14 degrees! One such site is still using a declination from 1990: as it changes by 5 minutes a year, after 32 years it's changed 2 degrees 40 minutes, which about matches the official number here. Even so, I still trust a map and compass more than a GPS navigation system!
John
I tink there are different requirements here. one is simple GPS location, where am I. There are plenty of solid products that do this. The second is maps. Paoer maps are fine, road and topo. Digital versions are also fine as some just digitze the topo so same map, just on screen than paper. They come in standalone vesions so no need for any communication link. Rugged and waterproof versions are very reliable.
Then you have all the online mapping versions incluiding route and navigation. Least reliable and prone to take you across a desert creek in a heartbeat. You rely on these and you get what's coming.
I use the Military satellites same as I used for my surveying station and equipment, I don't need it now a 1/8 of inch doesn't matter that much anymore to me.I kept my service since it was a package deal through a contractor's association and the price is cheap too,some of the contractors were linked with satellite phones from the same satellites I never needed one though