I want to add an engine oil cooler (air to oil). Where would I attach the cooler lines and what size cooler should I use? I see oil lines going to the turbo and I think the altenator and other places. also what diam tubing for the cooler and lines? I'm thinking of using an auto elec fan with thermostat to blow air thru the cooler. Thanks for any replys. Jim
whats the wrong with the factory one thats on the engine now
Jim, I dont knw what kind of bus you have or trans setup, but if you have the factory DD oil cooler installed, you cannot get the oil temp lower than the water coolant. If you have an auto, you can acheive the same result with a trans cooler (since the dbl oil cooler cools both eng and trans fluid) any one of the three fluids that you can reduce the common temp of the three.
To hook up the trans cooler, there is two pipe plugs on the outside of the dbl oil cooler. You'd remove those and install hose fittings there and run the lines to the trans cooler. I beleive those lines are about 1" ID. My trans cooler is 3" thick x 18" wide x 24" tall. It has an 18" Dia 24V Fan. I have a HT740 Allison. HTH Chuck
Out of all the problems that 2 stroke Detroits have, keeping the oil cool in NOT one of them. I highly recommend you leave the built in oil cooler that is on every Detroit alone. That is one thing that Detroit designed well.
If you have an Allison automatic, you'll have one of two types of factory installed coolers. One may be a double of the engine cooler you already have, or it will be a shell cooler remotely mounted near the transmission (looks like a 4" diameter pipe about 15" long with four hoses going to it-two for the radiator water and two for the transmission fluid to cool). On either of the transmission coolers, you can take most of the strain off the cooling system by installing a air to oil Hayden type high flow (at least 10 gal per minute) cooler on the hot side coming off the transmission. In other words, you install it on the hot line coming out of the transmission and the cool line coming off the Hayden goes to the existing trans cooler. Now my transmission guy swore up and down it is most effective to eliminate the radiator powered transmission cooler and rely only on the air to oil Hayden cooler. Both Don Fairchild and myself don't agree with that, in that without the radiator powered cooler, the trans could run to cool in cold weather. That's what nice about the radiator powered cooler, it not only cools, bus warms up and keeps the transmission around the running temp of the engine.
Once again-do not change your engine cooler!!! Good Luck, TomC
I have a 1978 Western Flyer bus, 6v92t, allison V730. It does NOT have an engine oil cooler on it. It does have a transmission oil cooler that uses engine water as the coolant. Thanks for the replys.
if the cooler is as long as the engine it has a oil cooler they do not have lines ran to the oil cooler it comes from the oil galley on the engine i have never seen a DD without one
So you're saying that there is an oil cooler inside the engine?
the cooler is mounted outside the engine were the two hoses from the transmission are the oil cooler is on the inside with the transmission cooler a double cooler is about as long as the 6v92 block it should have 2 covers on it the supply comes from galleys behind the case hope this helps you
The only cooler I have is a transmission oil to water unit which is a round cylinder about 15" long and only has two lines from the transmission and two water lines. So the factory oil cooler is a cylinder that is about the length of the engine and is water cooled?
look on the side of your engine mine is on the left hand side it want be as big as mine because mine is a double cooler but it will be on the block down by the oil pan if you have a manual for the engine it will have a picture of what it looks like i think i am just confusing you maybe Tom C can explain it
Jim, It came from the factory with a oil to water cooler attached to the side of the engine. On my Eagle it is on the drivers side, above the pan and below the head.
We have the 6V92t with the Allison 730 transmission. We installed an air to oil cooler on the transmission and it really helped keep the temperature lower on the engine. We kept the original transmission cooler in place and installed the new cooler ahead of it. It dropped our overall temperature on the enigine by 5 degrees and made climbing hills a lot easier on the cooling system. Don and Cary 4107
JimandSuzy- with the V drive (I have a '77 AMGeneral which is a cousin of the Canadian made Flyer D800) it is hard to see the engine oil cooler. If you're on the left side of the bus looking at the radiator, the oil cooler is going to be on the left side of the engine that is tipped upward. The oil cooler is mounted outside the block below the head and looks like a metal box that is about 8" square and about 2" deep. If you look from under the bus (safely) follow the big lower radiator hose- it first goes to the water pump then directly into the engine oil cooler that is next to the water pump. From the cooler the coolant then circulates through the engine. I assure you you have an oil cooler. I've NEVER seen any Diesel engine without an engine oil cooler, since this is one of the ways the engine is cooled-usually with oil jets aimed up under each piston. Even my piece of you know what Oldsmobile 5.7 Diesel has an oil cooler.
Don and Cary- I want to do the same thing with the transmission cooler. There is a Hayden trans cooler now made with a 12v fan built into it for Allisons. Where did you mount the trans cooler? Thanks, TomC
TomC Thanks for the info. I must have seen it and not realized what it was. I'll look again when I can get under there.
Don andCary Thanks for your info. I think I'll try your trans air cooler.
I have a new radiator but can't run over 55 without going to 200 degrees in 90 ambient. Clutch fan works OK and rad shroud is OK. I can tell by the engine temp rise when I need to add oil. I suppose this means the engine is worn out but if another cooler will get me by that's what I'll have do.
there is a thread on BNO about a recently developed synthetic transmission oil called transsynd! It is recommended by a bus mechanic {Hans (Buellhans) }from a transit company that has 3000 buses, several hundred have been converted to Transynd with very good results. It is very expensive but what would it cost to add another cooler?????
At BNO look for :
Substitute for Type A Suffix A Auto Trans Fluid http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/17030.html?1173847274
$400 Tranny Insurance policy? http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/17046.html?1173846911
Here are some engine drawings with dimensional specs for just about every engine Detroit has made. They show locations of many external components! I hope this is helpful for you, it has been for me during my engine swap! Just go down the line and find your engine, click on the link and its a PDF file they are hard to beat!
Pat
http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/ddc_drawings.htm
Accourding to the records, my coach has always had transsynd in it. When I bought it the dealer had just changed all the fluids and filled it with regular transmission fluid. When it came time for another change, I called an Allison service center and asked about it. They recommended I go back to using it. I did, and it made a difference in shifting, smoother.
I think its less about heat and more about less friction. change interval is 25,000 miles as opposed to 12,000
Jim and Suzy- go to the Powerline web site on engine drawings and pull up the 8V-92TA drawing #8083-7300. While it is a 92 series, the 8V-71 will be almost identical. On the right side engine view you'll see the square housing of the oil cooler at the front side of the engine below the cylinder head.
H3Jim- On the HD4060 (truck version of the B500) the normal fluid change interval is 25,000 miles-along with filter change. When you go to Transsynd, it increases to filter change at 50,000 miles, with fluid and filter change at 100,000 miles. Just like with engine oil, you can also get the transmission oil analyzed. Don't change it too often, Transsynd costs about $40 per gallon. Good Luck, TomC