One of the rules of the rv park I'm staying in states,
"We love electric vehicles, but if you stay in our park you must purchase a separate site to charge your vehicle."
No free lunch being green. I also saw EV charges in Cottonwood AZ for use, but it had a placard on each charger that it would be disabled during peak electric demand hours, something like 2 to 5 pm each day.
I don't own an EV but you bring up a great points. As it stands now, there are many retail establishments that offer parking spaces with free charging for your EV. Folks, this symbolic novelty is not going to last forever. There will be an outcry for those who think they are entitled to free stuff. If they want to offer special spaces for BEV cars, fine but you should have to pay. My car has a gasoline engine and don't expect anyone else to pay for my fuel.
3 to 8 pm weekdays are peak hours in Az. Rates are higher then.
That's the problem. Summertime in the southwest is hot. Most have AC. During peak hours there's the most demand for power, the most heat in the air and most relocated easterners and mid westerners don't like keeping the AC at 78 as were asked to do by the power company. So brown outs. And then let's plug in fast charging power-hungry e cars 2 or 3 times day and evening...
Don't worry, our electrical infrastructure will handle all this fine. Just listen to the promoters.
I don't know anyone who's purchased an EV expecting a free lunch everywhere they go. I'm sure the places that do offer a free charge are a nice bonus, but I can't imagine there are that many people relying heavily on using such perks. I suspect in the future we may start seeing dual-service sites more frequently; a standard hookup for the RV, plus a metered connection for charging EVs.
Everything is commoditized. Right now it makes sense for some businesses to offer a free charge for the simple reason that it pays for itself through attracting customers and prolonged stays (who wouldn't spend more time shopping while getting a 'free' charge, right?), but over time it'll shift and settle into a workable model for the longterm. Same with the underlying power infrastructure - it's got some catching up to do, but it doesn't need to happen overnight (and is long overdue anyway)
I would be happier just to see 50 amp power for the coach over the 30 amp in most camping spots now
The businesses that do offer charging are generally on three phase power drops so instead of a charge voltage of 240 it can be as low as 199 so a reduced charge rate. For my Tesla it's like eight miles an hour recharge rate and hey I never spend an hour at the grocery store...
Also I don't know of any EV's that can be flat towed as they don't have a transmission that can be shifted into neutral.
In the early days of the Tesla super charging network there was a big gap after Spokane as you head east bound. After drafting a semi-truck most of the way I rolled into Butte Montana with like four miles remaining and found a hotel that allowed me to unplug a dryer to recharge the car.
Tried that at another hotel stop and the dryer was gas!!! Luckily there was an RV park in walking distance that I could charge overnight in.
as they get more widespread, esp. along interstates, expect waiting lines to plug in.
Future versions may in addition to the main battery will have the provision for a smaller much lighter battery that can snap in, That way if the main set craps out, you can use the smaller one to get you to a place to recharge or exchange the small one for a new one and keep going. For now, BEV's shouldn't go too far away other that short trips around town or suburbia.
I read a story by a guy who determined what the cost for electricity was for charging his EV.Can't remember the car but he said a full charge at the power rate for him was $18. and he
determined the cost of operation for an ev vs gas engines was several times higher.
Also said that there wasn't the infrastructure in most communities that would support charging more than 2 or 3 vehicles in a block.
Quote from: freds on February 09, 2022, 08:15:38 AM
In the early days of the Tesla super charging network there was a big gap after Spokane as you head east bound.
Fred -There's now a Tesla charging station behind the Buffalo Wild Wings off US-95 in Coeur d'Alene, 1/2 mile N of I-90. . .
FWIW. . . ;)
Quote from: RJ on February 09, 2022, 02:32:08 PM
Fred -
There's now a Tesla charging station behind the Buffalo Wild Wings off US-95 in Coeur d'Alene, 1/2 mile N of I-90. . .
FWIW. . . ;)
They seem to be tucking them in all kinds of nooks and crannies. Gonna definitely take some getting used to - 'filling the tank' throughout the day as you visit various places, never quite knowing when you'll be able to find an open charging station.
Right now it just doesn't seem as handy as filling up once a week and carrying on with my trips without having to think about filling up. Seems like it's going to be like when smartphones first came out and people were always worried about the next place they could plug in to catch a few minutes of charge time.
Hopefully it all works out before I'm in the market for an EV.
Keep in mind that when the gasoline-powered car was first introduced, there were loads of naysayers talking about how absurd and impractical this idea was when gasoline wasn't available at most carriage houses. Infrastructure changes and grows based on needs and demands - while we're past the official 'early adopter' stage of EVs, the technology and infrastructure still have plenty of maturing to do.
As Milton pointed out above, (unless supercapacitors make some significant leaps) we can expect partial or full battery pack swapping to become a feature sooner than later. Engineering-wise it's not that complicated to standardize a battery pack design which could be removed and replaced with a fresh one within a timeframe comparable to a gas/diesel fill-up, the various corporations involved just need to come together to make it happen.
We have several chargers here and our Sheetz fuel stores have them at some locaions. I believe there is an app to find locations across the country.
Union Pacific just ordered several battery locomotives from two different sources.
Quote from: Nova Eona on February 09, 2022, 03:39:28 PM
Keep in mind that when the gasoline-powered car was first introduced, there were loads of naysayers talking about how absurd and impractical this idea was when gasoline wasn't available at most carriage houses. Infrastructure changes and grows based on needs and demands - while we're past the official 'early adopter' stage of EVs, the technology and infrastructure still have plenty of maturing to do.
As Milton pointed out above, (unless supercapacitors make some significant leaps) we can expect partial or full battery pack swapping to become a feature sooner than later. Engineering-wise it's not that complicated to standardize a battery pack design which could be removed and replaced with a fresh one within a timeframe comparable to a gas/diesel fill-up, the various corporations involved just need to come together to make it happen.
I agree - we're definitely in the starting phase of a major transition period. It's just that I hate transition. I'm better at it now than I used to be, but not much.
I'm glad I'm 70 because I never want to own a self driving car nor an EV.
There is a lot of hoopla and consternation about EV charge stations. EV is a paradigm shift so people need to think differently from fueling a gas vehicle.
Virtually every consumer owned gas car driven on pubic roads has to fuel at a commercial fueling station. So everyone thinks about distance between fueling stops at the gas station.
With an EV, many owners will find charing opportunities everywhere besides a commercial fueling station. Primary option is plugging in at home. Unless you drive more than 300 miles in a day, you simply return home and charge it up, ready for another 300 mile trip the following day.
From a practical standpoint, it is quite reasonable that most drivers drive about 300 miles in a week. So, you just need to plug in and charge up at home a couple of times a week.
It will be very interesting to watch the evolution of public charging stations. My guess is there will be a lot more fueling up at home and not public charging stations.
Naturally, along the major interstates where folks are likely traveling distances, there will be more stations. Just look at the rollout already - they are situated along the major travel routes.
The other development is the fast charger technology called super chargers. They are amazing how much mileage can be added in a very short time.
The fear and anxiety over shortfalls and inconveniences with EV charging will abate as the general public grows more comfortable with how one actually uses and charges an EV differently than a gas vehicle.
For those full time busnuts, EV faces far more real concerns as there is no assumption of a home charger capability and left to the charging options on the road. It will be quite some time, if ever, that charging an EV in the wild will be as convenient and accessible as gas.
Quote from: windtrader on February 09, 2022, 11:04:14 PM
It will be quite some time, if ever, that charging an EV in the wild will be as convenient and accessible as gas.
Don -Some folks have already figured out how to charge their electric car in the wild!
Quote from: windtrader on February 09, 2022, 11:04:14 PM
There is a lot of hoopla and consternation about EV charge stations. EV is a paradigm shift so people need to think differently from fueling a gas vehicle.
Virtually every consumer owned gas car driven on pubic roads has to fuel at a commercial fueling station. So everyone thinks about distance between fueling stops at the gas station.
With an EV, many owners will find charing opportunities everywhere besides a commercial fueling station. Primary option is plugging in at home. Unless you drive more than 300 miles in a day, you simply return home and charge it up, ready for another 300 mile trip the following day.
From a practical standpoint, it is quite reasonable that most drivers drive about 300 miles in a week. So, you just need to plug in and charge up at home a couple of times a week.
It will be very interesting to watch the evolution of public charging stations. My guess is there will be a lot more fueling up at home and not public charging stations.
Naturally, along the major interstates where folks are likely traveling distances, there will be more stations. Just look at the rollout already - they are situated along the major travel routes.
The other development is the fast charger technology called super chargers. They are amazing how much mileage can be added in a very short time.
The fear and anxiety over shortfalls and inconveniences with EV charging will abate as the general public grows more comfortable with how one actually uses and charges an EV differently than a gas vehicle.
For those full time busnuts, EV faces far more real concerns as there is no assumption of a home charger capability and left to the charging options on the road. It will be quite some time, if ever, that charging an EV in the wild will be as convenient and accessible as gas.
Well said and all excellent points. We will get there eventually but not yet and yes transitions do stink. I will go out on a limb though and say with all of these school bus and transit fleets moving toward EV's you will likely see a big old diesel generator on the property. Not knocking it but until the grid is expanded, what else can they do? Pack a portable generator when you take your EV on a trip that way at least you have some peace of mind anyway.
also expect your home electricity rates to sky rocket in coming years. They have to get the money to update the grid somewhere
Quote from: windtrader on February 09, 2022, 11:04:14 PM...Virtually every consumer owned gas car driven on pubic roads has to fuel at a commercial fueling station. So everyone thinks about distance between fueling stops at the gas station.
...Primary option is plugging in at home. ... So, you just need to plug in and charge up at home a couple of times a week.
...My guess is there will be a lot more fueling up at home and not public charging stations....
I think that your argument is a common one and likely what 'they' are hoping will take place. The major flaw with it is that there are millions of people who don't have a stable, convenient parking location - they live in densely populated urban and near-urban areas and older neighborhoods with street parking. I've lived in places like Milwaukee where it's a constant daily struggle just trying to find a place to park when you come home from work, and that place could be a block or more away from your front door. Even if they install a few charging stations on every block it won't do the trick, because there is no practical way to get cars in/out of the charging stations once every other space on the street is occupied.
Faced with this dilemma, I've heard 'them' say that "They'll be able to charge at work". Really? Who's going to pay to install all these charging stations in low-wage workplace parking lots? What about the people who street park again at work?
"But they can just charge when they go to the grocery store." Okay, how's this going to work? Mom and two little kids need to run to the store for their groceries - now she's going to have to find a grocery store with a charging station open near her house, and she'll have to stay in the store long enough for the charge. Hopefully the discount supermarkets are going to join in on the fun and install charging stations. No more running in to shop quickly and get back out.
My point is that even for people who simply use their cars for commuting to/from work there will need to be a viable charging network where drivers are confident that they'll be able to charge up when needed. And to make it widely accepted across the spectrum the charging needs to be as easy and available as filling a gas tank is right now.
I know that there is lots of work to be done, and that more charging stations are being added. But if we're talking about EVs replacing ICE vehicles over the next decades it will have to be done in a way which meets the needs of all people who currently have ICE vehicles, and to me an ad hoc system which grows piecemeal is not the best way to go if one of the goals is to give people the confidence they need to know reliable charging options exist.
there is talk about inductive? charging driving down the road. Interesting concept. Issues like living near power lines issues come to mind. But they'll get it all worked out over time. Since the transition will be more like 50 years, there will be time to deal with the hurdles. Oil will definitely be declining in supply, so it time for the change. Cliff probably remembers when everything was operated with horses. lol That got worked out in time.
Quote from: RJ on February 10, 2022, 02:51:18 AM
Don -
Some folks have already figured out how to charge their electric car in the wild!
Lol, just strap it to the roof and leave it on (I mean there!)
Quote from: dtcerrato on February 10, 2022, 07:42:42 AM
Lol, just strap it to the roof and leave it on (I mean there!)
And put a 15 gallon gasoline tank in the trunk. Then you can just fill up when you head out and charge while you drive.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 10, 2022, 06:09:49 AM
there is talk about inductive? charging driving down the road. Interesting concept. Issues like living near power lines issues come to mind. But they'll get it all worked out over time. Since the transition will be more like 50 years, there will be time to deal with the hurdles. Oil will definitely be declining in supply, so it time for the change. Cliff probably remembers when everything was operated with horses. lol That got worked out in time.
I like the concept of inductive charging, but two things come to mind. The first is the efficiency of inductive vs. plugged in charging, and how much loss there will be across a national fleet of vehicles charged this way.
The other is whether or not there will be any danger for people near the inductive charging area, especially people with cardiac implants, pacemakers, etc.
By the time they get it figured out there will be something else new and exiting to power cars or spaceships. Who knows.
The problem right now is they tell us this all is to stop greenhouse gasing and make a smaller footprint Blah blah blah?
But is you talk to the people in the know they say to produce all this power for these cars that you still will have coal fired plants and Nuclear power plants all with pollution and or bi-products that will last for millions of years even buried in the hole in Utah. So it really is not stopping anything but some oil use and replacing it with dirty coal etc.
You will still need lubrication also on a lot of things as well as Plastics which take oil to make.
yeah, but the touchy Feely good part will be there. like saving all the trees so they can burn down, meat substitutes that have all the additives to save the cows and chickens.
I don't have any problems accepting that EVs will result is less energy use overall. There is an inherent efficiency in a centralized production system. Of course, this depends on having a modern distribution system capable of transmitting the power without excessive loss along the way.
Surely having a centralized plant making electrons move is more efficient than having millions of small little power plants running all over the place.
I think of similar to large complexes like university campuses which heat using a centralized steam plant rather than installing lots of smaller boilers all over the place to produce steam.
That said, it is true that it will not totally reduce oil consumption for production and manufacturing.
Ah, for the days... when you went to the drug store and bought a gallon can of petrol.
Jim
Yeah and walking to school and back home uphill both ways in the snow even in May.
With the wolves chasing after him and crazy old drunk Zeek chasing him with the tractor at 6:00am. There was no TV either, they sat in the living room and stared at the wall every night. :)
If the EV is being towed 4 down...
Why would it need charged?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on February 10, 2022, 11:09:27 AM
If the EV is being towed 4 down...
Why would it need charged?
Couldn't you just set it to charge itself while it's towed?
Jim
probably an option in future.
Living out here on the west coast shows me the way. The issues related to charging at the office are being addressed. The distance traveller has increasing options.
Workplace charging is nearly old news. Here are a couple of images of where EV charging is gaining traction. When I was at PayPal there were about 25-30 chargers in the first row of the parking lot. The rule was to charge up then move your car. So, first come gets the morning charge. Take a lunch break and move your car to free up spots for the afternoon crowd. Not having personal experience with the system, hard to say how effective it was overall but most spots seemed occupied. Hogs never moved or lots of cars needing charging?
The transition will be a decade or more, so things will take time.
Don't forget that one can use solar charging at home (i.e. decentralized) to lessen the carbon and pollution impacts too.
This topic is about EV as a toad or stretching to EV evolution in general. It is not in any way talking about the ongoing need for petroleum based products over the long term, just about the EV revolution's impact on fossil fuel reduction.
As to the portable generator - they already got that one figured out - called "hybrid" LOL
@Windtrader I understand what you are saying about charging at work and home, and even at the mall. Not sure what things are like out west but in many parts of the country in urban and near-urban areas street parking is the norm - at home, at work, and while shopping. This is the part of the equation that will be difficult to solve.
Moving your car at lunch so others can charge? Large plants sometimes have remote parking - employees are rushed to eat and use the restroom on their half hour lunch as it is - they'd use up their entire break shuttling their car.
I guess my point really boils down to the fact that this transition is going to be the toughest on the people who are already struggling, especially when inexpensive used ICE vehicles are no longer an option.
It will be many years yet before those inexpensive ICE vehicles go away, judging the future EV landscape on the fallacies of the present in this case doesn't make sense.
could you run a jumper set from a parked Tesla to your own to steal his charge? Might be the ticket at large parking lots, like airports, or parking garages.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 10, 2022, 02:27:28 PM
could you run a jumper set from a parked Tesla to your own to steal his charge? Might be the ticket at large parking lots, like airports, or parking garages.
Ah no, there is no buddy system where you can hand off juice to another car.
Tripple AAA does have some rescue vehicles that can deliver a mobile charge in larger cities but I don't hear much of them being used.
Most people don't venture much more than 20 miles from home and virtually nobody has at home gas refueling, however practically everyone has electricity...
A happy EV is one that is plugged in regularly for less wear and tear on the battery pack. If you do that you always leave with a full tank in the morning.
It's to the point that I resent having to go to the gas station!!! Which I do have to do regularly if I am putting miles on the Diesel pickup. Kind of pisses me off that the fuel gauge has dropped each time I get into it.
Anyway yes people have recharged electric cars by towing them, but there's nothing automatic about the process...
I think the cat's meow for us would be the ability to flat tow a cyber truck that could give us hill assist and extra breaking LOL!
Quote from: freds on February 10, 2022, 04:45:51 PM...however practically everyone has electricity...
They may have electricity, but that doesn't mean they have a parking spot on their property. Or near their electricity.
Solutions like charing at home at great in the suburbs, not so much for those who can't park at home. All those living and working in dense neighborhoods will need another option.
There were, still are experiments in replaceable battery packs. You drive up over a changing station. The existing battery pack unhooks, slides away, and a charged pack is replaced in a few minutes. Maybe even faster than waiting for an empty gas tank to fill up.
You would lease the battery pack, then pay some charge for the replaced cell. An interesting idea both in terms of offering alternatives to charging back up and also to Richard's point, lowering the barrier of entry.
I'm not big on government handouts but maybe some form of subsidy to kick off a means-tested program to lessen the upfront cost to lower income folks. But I do agree this rollout, like many, puts the lower income folks at the back of the pack but that is the nature of any new technology that rolls out. Early adopters shoulder the brunt of the development and initial production costs.
QuoteAll those living and working in dense neighborhoods . . .
And for those who have fewer access to charging facilities at work and home, then there are options like already available where you can get a charge with the swipe of a card.
Here's one for the idea of an EV toad. Run a cable somehow from the coach and charge it while enroute via the generator.
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on February 11, 2022, 03:59:31 AM
Here's one for the idea of an EV toad. Run a cable somehow from the coach and charge it while enroute via the generator.
Check out the headlines from Airstream & Thor. They are working on a prototype eTrailer which has an electric drive axle to help propel the trailer and take a load off the tow vehicle. It will also have regenerative braking.
I can see someone developing a similar system to tether an EV behind a motorhome and be able to have the EV use its regenerative braking to augment the regular brakes as well as to keep its batteries charged. Might even be able to give the bus towing it a little extra push like Dan likes to do.
Most shopping areas in Scottsdale have charging for the EV like Whole Foods,it is free but how long the stations are going to remain free is the question, common senesce tells you the cost has to be passed on
I know nothing about these electric cars and don't want to know about them. When I can no longer buy gas or diesel for my vehicles I'll just join my Amish neighbors and get a horse!
But I have seen charging stations that have the place to swipe a credit card, so someone has already jumped on the "charging to charge" program!
;D BK ;D
There is one big thing they will have to deal with on any battery exchange program, well illustrated when I recently took an oxy tank to be refilled. The counter woman began to bitch about return cylinders being foisted on them that had expired inspections and them having to pay for that when they didn't own the cylinders. I told her, look, you took that on when you began to exchange privately owned cylinders instead of refilling them. That was for your convenience so you don't have to track the cylinders by number. You have no idea where the cylinder I originally bought is now. That means that despite my right to title, THIS CYLINDER BELONGS TO YOU. So when it needs inspected you are responsible for that. She really didn't like that so I took my business to the competition who was happy to see me and gave me no grief. Her company will continue it's slow decline without my support.
The same applies to batteries. It's a hidden problem but one that cannot be ignored. It has to be dealt with in some way and if nothing else, will simply become part of the cost of doing business.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 11, 2022, 07:57:09 AM
There is one big thing they will have to deal with on any battery exchange program, well illustrated when I recently took an oxy tank to be refilled. The counter woman began to bitch about return cylinders being foisted on them that had expired inspections and them having to pay for that when they didn't own the cylinders. I told her, look, you took that on when you began to exchange privately owned cylinders instead of refilling them. That was for your convenience so you don't have to track the cylinders by number. You have no idea where the cylinder I originally bought is now. That means that despite my right to title, THIS CYLINDER BELONGS TO YOU. So when it needs inspected you are responsible for that. She really didn't like that so I took my business to the competition who was happy to see me and gave me no grief. Her company will continue it's slow decline without my support.
The same applies to batteries. It's a hidden problem but one that cannot be ignored. It has to be dealt with in some way and if nothing else, will simply become part of the cost of doing business.
Jim
Like many other industries are already doing, I'd put money on them going to a subscription service for the batteries if an exchange program takes off. You get to use them, but you don't own them.
You may own the vehicle, but even then you have to subscribe to various parts of the software package to make it work, and companies like Tesla like to piecemeal this out to get the most number of nickels and dimes from you.
Tesla Makes most if not all of their own parts bodies , etc.and when the chip thing started they even started making their own chips and programs. That's why they sold so many cars world wide. These are what partners and buy out of house.
AGC Automotive: windshields
Brembo: brakes
Fisher Dynamics: power seats
Inteva Products: instrument panel
Modine Manufacturing Co.: battery chiller
Sika: acoustic dampers
Stabilus: liftgate gas spring
ZF Lenksysteme: power steering mechanism
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 11, 2022, 07:57:09 AM
There is one big thing they will have to deal with on any battery exchange program, well illustrated when I recently took an oxy tank to be refilled. The counter woman began to bitch about return cylinders being foisted on them that had expired inspections and them having to pay for that when they didn't own the cylinders. I told her, look, you took that on when you began to exchange privately owned cylinders instead of refilling them. That was for your convenience so you don't have to track the cylinders by number. You have no idea where the cylinder I originally bought is now. That means that despite my right to title, THIS CYLINDER BELONGS TO YOU. So when it needs inspected you are responsible for that. She really didn't like that so I took my business to the competition who was happy to see me and gave me no grief. Her company will continue it's slow decline without my support.
The same applies to batteries. It's a hidden problem but one that cannot be ignored. It has to be dealt with in some way and if nothing else, will simply become part of the cost of doing business.
Jim
Well if we let the lowest common denominator hinder things, nothing would ever get done. Yes, there will be those people that will give us crap or suffer from lack of communication but competition has a way of weeding out the turds.
You lease instead of buy. No need to own one.
Not up to us. If someone decides to do it they will have to sort it out. But it will raise the cost to swap batteries significantly above what it costs to recharge.
Jim
Don't these battery packs have an on-board computer which manages them? If so, it should be an instant process to tap into it to determine if the battery has been abused or reached its end of life. In those cases it could easily be rejected at the exchange terminal.
This is different than an LP tank which someone throws into a bin with no on checking or inspecting first.
LP tanks are pass/fail inspected prior to refilling when dropped off at exchange stations, batteries could be much the same way. Logistically the recycling of the battery will need to be the provider's responsibility, no customer will accept getting stuck with the 'hot potato' of a previously used battery pack rejected at the exchange.
$15.00 for propane tank testing every 3 years now is the biggest rip off to come along in years,they want you to exchange the tanks your pay for 5 gals and get 4 gals ,some of the dumbasses won't fill the ASTM frame mounted tanks now with out a sticker
Quote from: luvrbus on February 12, 2022, 06:49:12 AM
$15.00 for propane tank testing every 3 years now is the biggest rip off to come along in years,they want you to exchange the tanks your pay for 5 gals and get 4 gals ,some of the dumbasses won't fill the ASTM frame mounted tanks now with out a sticker
Three years? Around here it's 5 years or more, depending on the type of recert done, and I think new ones are good for either 10 or 12 years.
Judging by some of the really crappy ones I saw at the propane dealer which they pulled out of service at recert time I'm glad they need periodic inspection. Would hate to be near some of those in a campground when something went wrong.
Around here, we exchanged expired ones at a Walmart. Then get the current dated tanks refilled at Tractor Supply or U-haul. They will reject expired ones. Kids at Walmart don't care.
Also those exchanged tanks aren't full. They cut back on fill starting a couple years ago when there was a supply shortage. They still haven't gone back.
I've also rid those old style tanks this way.
LOL Arizona is the only place in the country so far that has checked our tanks. Here they just fill them at the hardware store no problem. 16.50 to fill a 20 lb'er. :^
They had 6 or so double cord charging posts at the Taos ski valley. Card tap to pay. There were 4 EV's hooked up when I went skiing Thursday. Seems like if you planned correctly you could get enough charge going down the mountain to get you back to you motel room in Taos. I drove down the hill 10 miles in 2nd gear, engine racing in my car just to hold the speed down.
So, how do you know how much juice you are paying for on these poles? In Texas they have a whole compliance division to verify accuracy of gasoline delivered at the station. The guy pumps into a measured 5 gallon can and pours the gas back to the tank in the ground.
I guess they will have to carry some kind of electric meter to measure KW delivery through the cord.
David
Just more regulations run amok, no wonder our country is in deep *&#. Went to UHaul to refill my BBQ tank and they would not refill it because it was laid down in the back of my pu to keep it from rolling around. Tried to tell me it might explode. I said FU and went somewhere else.
I filled a 2007 propane tank 20 #er for $16 no problem in mid Florida as at home there is no way I could have had it filled
to old without restamped and inspection
not laying down is probably part of regulations, like not hauling acetylene or oxygen tanks horizontally. We were told that several years ago when we exchanged them. Later they just left the exchanged tank with you and went back into building. Might be why you just exchange a propane tank now and they aren't involved at all in your transport means. Remember back when you weren't permitted to pump your own gas? Except New Jersey now afaik.
LOL when my propane guy comes by every now and then he never checks a tank he just fills it and I pay about 2 bucks a gal when others are charging almost 4 bucks
I have a propane fireplace as backup. When I first set up supply had it on automatic. They charge environmental fee every time they stop, no matter how much they delivered. Since only a fireplace, they would stop and maybe only put in 12 gallons+ plus that fee. They would never top off either, to insure that there was still room to add at next stop. I switched to will call because of that. One thing I must watch now is to not allow to run out. If tank empty when they come, they have to test system for leaks along with the associated fee.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 12, 2022, 07:43:15 AM
Around here, we exchanged expired ones at a Walmart. Then get the current dated tanks refilled at Tractor Supply or U-haul. They will reject expired ones. Kids at Walmart don't care.
Also those exchanged tanks aren't full. They cut back on fill starting a couple years ago when there was a supply shortage. They still haven't gone back.
I've also rid those old style tanks this way.
Same. I went to TSC to refill expired tank. Kid says just go across the street to WM and pay 15 bucks for an exchange, they don't check. Then you can come here to refill. LOL
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 11, 2022, 07:57:09 AM
I told her, look, you took that on when you began to exchange privately owned cylinders instead of refilling them. That was for your convenience so you don't have to track the cylinders by number. You have no idea where the cylinder I originally bought is now. That means that despite my right to title, THIS CYLINDER BELONGS TO YOU. So when it needs inspected you are responsible for that. She really didn't like that so I took my business to the competition who was happy to see me and gave me no grief. Her company will continue it's slow decline without my support.
I totally hear you about the cylinder exchange. I used to fly my airplane up in the nose bleed altitudes (put that turbo to work) when my business was doing better and I refilled the onboard portable cylinder in my hanger and had a very nice pristine looking cylinder in the airplane until I got behind on the certification requirements and wound up with a very beat up one from the oil fields of Wyoming...
I generally paid somewhere between 30-60 dollars for a refill when away from home until I got to Boston (based in Seattle) where it cost me $175.00 a decade ago. Have no idea what it would cost today...
I got one of those small oxygen acetylene torch kits and went to get them filled . nope only exchange tanks . went in with shiny brand new tanks and left with scratched up dented no paint left on them tanks but they were full .
like
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