I'm getting ready to install my 120V system. I just picked up a 6 space, 12 circuit, breaker box from Home Depot. I have some 14g and 12g wire laying around the shop. Boy is that stuff expensive! My question today is, do you guys usually...
1. Run all 12g with 20 amp breakers everywhere, or...
2. Mix it up with some 20 amp breakers and corresponding 12g wire and some 15 amp breakers with corresponding 14g wire (depending on load)? or...
3. Do you run all 15 amp circuits and corresponding 14g wire?
My biggest users will be 12,000 and 9000 btu mini splits and probably the refrigerator (a 10 cu ft all electric model that probably doesn't have a defrost feature). I'm thinking it would be cleaner to run all 12g wire and all 20 amp breakers, but I would sure save a lot if I could run all 14g wire. I haven't researched the amperage of the mini splits or the refrigerator yet, but if they will work on 15 amp circuits, I just might go that route. However, if all 15 amp is "cutting corners", then by all means, I will run all 20 amp, or a mixture of both.
I know this is a lot of questions for one post, but at this point I am only trying to get a flavor of what people typically do. I will be planning on a solar system and probably Victron equipment. The range, water heater and main source of heat will be propane (and a CDH), so since I am not going all electric, my system will be fairly minimal. Thanks to everyone in advance.
In my experience, it never fails that someone will want to plug that space heater or toaster into the outlets which you made 15a, resulting in a blown circuit or worse.
There are not that many outlets in a bus conversion. My thought is that they should all be on 20a circuits to allow for maximum flexibility later on.
All our circuits in my bus are 20a except the one which runs the lighting. Nothing can be plugged into that circuit so it is a closed system with a known load. All the others are either carrying heavier loads or have outlets.
This allows us to plug the toaster in on the dinette table outlet or move the coffee maker up front if we want, or to plug in a space heater or dehumidifier in any space we need.
My vote is to upsize wiring beyond the minimum standards, especially to high amperage devices, like the AC and heat.
We aren't wiring a home, with a healthy transformer just outside somewhere.
What happens when the campground voltage drops during the heat wave?
The generator can't keep up voltage? The inverter can't keep up voltage?
Up goes the amps to compensate, and up goes the heat, in the cabling...
You may continue to protect the device with the recommended smaller circuit breaker, no offence is committed by putting big wire and a smaller breaker.
Electrical fires take lots of RVs.
A small investment allows one to declare, "Not MINE!"
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I would go the 20 amp route for all or like said a 15 amp run for led lights
I remember the old 15 amp receptical and you could not plug in a toster and a 1 cup coffee maker at the same time . alls good though with a 20 amp
my coach has all 20 amp and I never trip a braker
for sure use 20 amp for the split units
always use 20 amp. Never know the future loads applied. May not hurt to run 10ga. for any roof airs to counter load with low voltage. Especially with the 18,btu. ones.
Our only 15A CB (all others are 20s & 30A) is for the HE rooftop AC as stipulated by the manufacturer. It eases impact on the AC because the breaker takes the trip before the AC is overheated, etc.
I think for reasonably short runs which they all would be in a bus, 12 ga wire will handle a 30A breaker so it's pretty easy to overspec the wiring for safety's sake. Nothing bigger than 14ga and 15A is needed for any lighting circuit. So the usual division is 14ga for lights and 12 ga for outlets. Using 14 ga for any outlets can lead to regrets and there's not much point in going smaller than 14ga for anything.
Jim
Sounds like there is a consensus on the 12g/20 amp circuits throughout with exception of lighting. Sounds like a great plan. I guess my thinking was that if a space heater with a 14 gauge cord was plugged into a 20 amp circuit, that the cord could melt before the breaker would pop, but I suppose the protection is for the wiring in the walls, not the cord from the unit to the outlet.
Thanks all, and away I go!
never understood why most cube type heaters have such a small gauge wire to the plug . it gets warm if you use the heater on high . for that reason I never leave the coach with a cube heater on hi and low or 1/2 power is a lot safer
Normally I select wire size have less than 3% drop at the max continuous load. Then pick a breaker to support that load.
But since household breakers are usually 15 or 20amp I use 14ga/15a up to 25'
and 12ga/20amp up to 25'
This is a nice summary:
https://www.thespruce.com/matching-wire-size-to-circuit-amperage-1152865
@sledhead
Know what you mean on cube heater cords similar to iron, toaster, electric skillet, etc. cords. My guess is they fall under a different category as "soft wired" but do have very high temp rated insulation on them.
I think the small cords are installed so people will not use then for full time heat . but they do and you hear about cube heater fires all the time
A lot of those fires, including toe heaters in conversions are from dust accumulation. People don't blow these out regularly. You would be surprised how much accumulates in them.
The number one cause of fires by any kind of heater, electric, wood stove, fuel, etc. is when they're ran in close proximity to combustibles with that being said the number one causes in combustibles are drapes, curtains, blankets, carpet, furniture, etc. Common sense plays a great role here. As far as internal accumulation of dust in the heater - if & when it catches fire - if it is not in close proximity to combustibles - little problem that will burn itself out but these heaters should be maintained.
Common sense should prevail but ignorance & or stupid can be in that equation.
I didnt know toasters cam any larger that 15 amps.
Quote from: Fred Mc on January 28, 2022, 10:03:58 PM
I didnt know toasters cam any larger that 15 amps.
Even if what you're saying is true, shouldn't a 15-amp toaster be used on a 20-amp circuit? I've been taught never to run more than 80% load on a breaker. If you have a 15-amp appliance you really should install a 20-amp circuit.
the building code is slowly changing for new construction
in Ontario Canada the kitchen is the only room in the house that needs 20 amp recepticals and some have to be gfci
wow and my coach has had 20 amp recepiticals on all and it's 22 years old
a lot of hand held hair driers are 1875 watts hows that work in a 15 amp receptical
can you say
" it's all I got captian it's at maximum wrap "
1875 watt heaters used to be the standard plug-in item. That was the most you could run on a 15 amp outlet, actually 75 watts oversize but it generally worked. Now it seems 1500 watt is more common. Perfect example of why 12 ga wire should be used for outlet service. Safer to overbuild just a bit.
Jim
The building code and electrical code is a big scam anymore. The people that make the changes are paid and come up with changes every year to justify their jobs. A few changes and new regulations manuals have to be printed, which contractors and code enforcement officers need to buy to keep up with latest changes. Millions made by printing industry, Millions spent by contractors, millions spent by new home buyers. Osha almost as bad. It never ends.
And no wonder building costs keep going up. And won't even get into permitting and environmental requirements. Government is resistant to raise taxes as much. Just raise fees and extract more money from businesses. Less chance of voter risk this way.
Building codes and electrical codes aside, running any electric device at or near its design limits isn't a good idea. Things like circuit breakers wear out, have faults, etc. They can wear faster if they are tripping frequently, causing a spiral of even more frequent tripping and even more wear. Wiring connections in a moving bus also are prone to developing faults, no matter how careful we are in putting things together. Overbuilding and using 20-amp circuits with 12-ga wiring in place of 15-amp/14-ga wiring seems like an easy enough way to build in a little operational buffer.
Especially important when staying at campgrounds on the pole and voltage runs low, increasing amperage draw from electrical loads. Actually, even at home sometimes when plugged in. Make sure the wiring used in coach is made with solid copper and not copper clad aluminum.
I have argued with my power co. at home because the pole power to my house is at best 119-120v and when there is a lot of draw it sure can drop fast . they think that 6 homes that run off one pole mount transformer is fine . me not so much but they refuse to change it .
here in Florida I get 125 v all the time and the higher the volts the better it is on some of the applinaces
I've heard they can change tap connections at transformer to up the voltage a coupledigits. Don't know if that is true or not.
Just a short note, on your outlet runs with 12 ga wire, get the higher rated outlets. The 59 cent specials are a false economy. You won't have enough outlets in the bus to make a difference so spring for the box of 10 at a couple bucks apiece with the 30a rating just for peace of mind.
Jim
Quote from: sledhead on January 27, 2022, 01:27:11 PM
never understood why most cube type heaters have such a small gauge wire to the plug . it gets warm if you use the heater on high . for that reason I never leave the coach with a cube heater on hi and low or 1/2 power is a lot safer
The cord on those devices is often a special type that is designed to limit the maximum draw. Some are not even copper but some sort of nickel type wire.
More circuits with smaller breakers can provide a safety factor.
For example a device shorts a 30amp will probably turn it into a welder whereas a 15amp would likely trip.
For a 1800 watt heater 14ga wire is fine up to 15feet. A single 20amp breaker for this load protects the wiring for over heating and would trip if heater shorted.
Generally sizing the wire for a drop of 2-3 volts under full load is fine.
This is a fun wire gauge calculator for what if questions:
https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html
ya
it looks to me like the cord on the heater is just old 2 prong light wire ? yet the cord on our 16" floor fan is 3 wire 14 gauge cord ? a lot bigger and a pain to coil up but I am sure there is a csa stamp on both of them
" so they are safe "
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on January 30, 2022, 07:12:47 AM
Just a short note, on your outlet runs with 12 ga wire, get the higher rated outlets. The 59 cent specials are a false economy. You won't have enough outlets in the bus to make a difference so spring for the box of 10 at a couple bucks apiece with the 30a rating just for peace of mind.
Yep, for sure. The cheapies are only 15 amp.
Glenn,
Just because you mentioned you already have some wire lying around that you intend to use...make sure you're wire is stranded, not solid. The vibrations in a bus will fatique solid wire at the connection points and you may find yourself chasing gremlins after a bit.
Well here we go, that's the other thing. Stranded wire brings an entirely different methodology with it. Definitely safer for vehicles if done right. BUT, don't wire your bus with THHN.
It's made to be run through conduit in stationary applications for industrial equipment. The outer (clear) layer of insulation is not durable, will split and peel off under anything approaching harsh conditions. Which means a possible fire down the road. The vinyl layer underneath may save you but for no more wire than you are running, don't be penny foolish. Use better insulation.
Your choices? Basically vinyl, SO cords, cross linked, and teflon in order of toughness, durablilty, and cost. Auto manufacturers all went to cross linked in the 90's yet parts suppliers still only stock the old vinyl that was in vogue in the 60's Why can't they move on? Well it's cheap and it's good for a couple of years. SO cords use a heavy rubber insulation and are much more expensive than extension cords but are more flexible and last much longer. But by 40-50 years they may be starting to crack. Cross linked comes in three insulation thicknesses and is available online from places like Del City in convenient lengths and colors. Worth the money. Teflon is hard to work with, usually jacketed in stainless, but pretty much bullet proof. Also expensive, probably more than anything else. Available in 2 and 3 conductor, and various gages.
Then there are the terminations. Don't spend good money on quality wire then expect to just stick the end under a screw head. Buy the adhesive lined heat shrink terminations of the proper size on both the wire end and the lug end and use them.
Finally, if you are running individual wires 1/2" pvc conduit is cheap and easy to work with. It can be bent by softening it in boiling water, using a heat gun, etc, or use metallic conduit. A bender might be $20 and the conduit ends are very cheap. Don't forget the support clips. Once in place you can snake in wires as needed, and distribution boxes make for versatility in runs. Do it right and changing things down the road is a doddle. Also, installing conduit as a late step in the construction is usually pretty easy.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on January 31, 2022, 08:24:07 AM
Well here we go, that's the other thing. Stranded wire brings an entirely different methodology with it. Definitely safer for vehicles if done right. BUT, don't wire your bus with THHN...
Jim
And then there is this: https://www.delcity.net/store/Marine-Cable/p_356.h_181036
Flexible, safe, and suited for the conditions found in a bus. Not cheap though. This is the stuff that Custom Coach used to wire all the 120v systems, and it's held up remarkably well over nearly 50 years.
every thing on the 120 v side in my coach is marine wire with terminal ends on every conection . 12 gauge wire or larger
They make heavier duty receptacles that the stranded wire is inserted and it clamps them instead of around a screw head. Btw. that theory about solid wire failing in a coach conversion is under extreme conditions and without proper securing of wires.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 01, 2022, 07:33:17 AM
They make heavier duty receptacles that the stranded wire is inserted and it clamps them instead of around a screw head. Btw. that theory about solid wire failing in a coach conversion is under extreme conditions and without proper securing of wires.
Good point about securing wires. In our bus all wires are zip tied to within an inch of their lives. Aside from component failure, the only wiring failures I've seen in either of my buses has been due to one of two things - corrosion or wire movement.
Those outlets with the option to insert the wire inna hole... ya dinna wanna do that.
It's made for contractors to get in and out fast. Not with your concerns at heart. And even if, your stranded wires don't work there.
Jim
No, no, not those. You insert wire which goes between plate and screw with square washer. Tighten screw and its clamped secure.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 02, 2022, 06:37:04 PM
No, no, not those. You insert wire which goes between plate and screw with square washer. Tighten screw and its clamped secure.
Exactly, these are the best!
FWIW, I used those recepticles and THHN in a conduit. They cost about 2$ more, but are much stronger all around.
can u find them at the big box stores
Quote from: sledhead on February 03, 2022, 04:46:19 AM
can u find them at the big box stores
Yes, that one I had the picture of was Lowes.
Quote from: mqbus767 on February 02, 2022, 08:54:54 PM
FWIW, I used those recepticles and THHN in a conduit. They cost about 2$ more, but are much stronger all around.
Same here with metallic Steel City J-boxes & dedicated green ground conductor with all solid 12g wire _ 20A CBs.
THHN isn't a good choice for automotive as mentioned before, but if you used steel conduit it should be safe from burning your bus down even if it shorts out. With pvc conduit it's a bit more risky but at least it won't short to the conduit itself so you'd have to have two wires exposed in the same spot to short. Which isn't as unlikely as it sounds.
I've seen the clear insulation on THHN peel off in as little as 6 months. Apparently it is just too thin to be durable. That leaves the colored insulation but it's also vinyl or pvc and not very thick. I've been wiring industrial equipment for about 50 years now using THHN and the older the wiring is, the more of the clear jacked has failed. Sometimes it just falls off the wire. Not real effective as insulation but in an industrial setting where it never moves it is safe enough. If you have any vibration though I would never be satisfied in counting only on the inner jacket to prevent shorts. It really isn't thick enough.
Jim
I will look 4 the better recepticals in the 20 amp next time I'm at lowes
thanks
only problem down here in Florida at lowes right now is most of the shelves r empty .
pickin is slim and 2 do some jobs u stand there in the isle thinking of other ways to do the job as what u want is not there so u have 2 improvise
but it always cost more .. do u think they r doing it for more $$$$$$$$$$
1 of the guys at lowes told me they get 1 del. a month 4 conduit boxs and like and they r gone the next day
probably the same back home
When I built my house, I used all screwed down connection outlet types. The ones that only stab in do not provide a very complete connection. I think the brass inside only touches the wire, not like the good but more expensive outlets.
Those ones with the internal screw clamp are very good and I would choose that over crimp lugs. Not sure what the ratings you're likely to see are. 15a of course but the better ones could be 20, could be 30. I'd go for the higher ones if there isn't a good reason not to. The breaker is there only to protect the wiring and the outlet. That's the entire extent of it's job. If the outlet is rated higher than the breaker that's just an extra safety margin, same as if the wire is heavier than it has to be. Good for peace of mind. Plus if needed later it allows the freedom to install a heavier breaker. Good example: Did a little remodeling in the kitchen which included an outlet strip, and the only circuit readily available was 14 gage wire on a 20 amp breaker. Turns out when you turn on a crock pot and an air fryer it's too much. IF the wiring had been 12 gage it would be a simple matter to switch to a 30a breaker and a 30a outlet to plug the power strips into but to run a new wire is not so simple.
Jim
12 gauge wire is good for a 20 amp breaker
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 03, 2022, 01:29:20 PM
Those ones with the internal screw clamp are very good and I would choose that over crimp lugs. Not sure what the ratings you're likely to see are. 15a of course but the better ones could be 20, could be 30. I'd go for the higher ones if there isn't a good reason not to. The breaker is there only to protect the wiring and the outlet. That's the entire extent of it's job. If the outlet is rated higher than the breaker that's just an extra safety margin, same as if the wire is heavier than it has to be. Good for peace of mind. Plus if needed later it allows the freedom to install a heavier breaker. Good example: Did a little remodeling in the kitchen which included an outlet strip, and the only circuit readily available was 14 gage wire on a 20 amp breaker. Turns out when you turn on a crock pot and an air fryer it's too much. IF the wiring had been 12 gage it would be a simple matter to switch to a 30a breaker and a 30a outlet to plug the power strips into but to run a new wire is not so simple.
Jim
20-amp outlets have one straight slot and one T-shaped slot. One prong on the plug is turned sideways on a 20-amp plug, and the T-shaped outlet slot allows either a 'regular' plug or a 20-amp plug to be used. Very few household appliances will require a true 20-amp outlet aside from some very large window a/c units and perhaps a counter-top oven. More common in commercial kitchens or industrial settings.
I'd say that it's pretty common to find regular 15-amp outlets in most homes on the 20-amp circuits, which is perfectly acceptable. Very rarely will you find a device which needs the 20-amp outlet, even less likely on a bus.
Not sure what you're talking about with a 30-amp outlet. Most everything I've ever seen for 30 amps is totally different and not capable of accepting a 'regular' plug found on most household appliances.
THHN wire is extremely robust with superior insulation that lasts a lifetime. Ours was installed in our diy conversion in 1979 and is of the same condition today as it was when installed. We even used 10 through 6 gauge THHN for portions of the 12V wiring & has held up better than any of the TW of SJO cords - especially in the engine house - just for the record :^
if you think that receptacles in kitchen area may have two high draw items plugged in at the same time, you have a couple choices. Run different receptacles in that area on separate circuit, or snap off the side jumper in those receptacles and run upper half of receptacles on one circuit, and lower half on different circuit. Not positive if latter is ok with code though. Whatever you do, use all heavy duty 20 amp ones. They secure plugs tighter than the lesser ones due to heavier components.
The heavier duty outlets which grip plugs tightly can be found in 15-amp and 20-amp versions. You're looking for outlets designed for commercial applications as opposed to residential ones. The 'contractor grade' outlets are usually the bargain bin option and of the lower quality - they are designed to build fast and cheap.
Codes differ greatly in different locations. I would be comfortable running two circuits to one duplex outlet with a removed side jumper as long as there is a caution lable inside that J-Box that states the outlet is fed by two circuit breakers with their numbers. We remove side jumpers where we want one of the duplex receptacles switched - as our. aux. air compressor is plugged into and energized from the driver seat if needed - among others in the bus & on the home front...
I was just trying to point out that it may not be all that easy to run additional wires if you need to on down the road. In which case you can often get by if you ran the heavier wire in the first place. And the breaker is there to protect the wire and the outlet. So if you plan on using 20a breakers you'd better not be using 15a outlets. You could overload the outlets and the breaker would never know. That's a recipe for a fire.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 04, 2022, 01:32:13 PM
I was just trying to point out that it may not be all that easy to run additional wires if you need to on down the road. In which case you can often get by if you ran the heavier wire in the first place. And the breaker is there to protect the wire and the outlet. So if you plan on using 20a breakers you'd better not be using 15a outlets. You could overload the outlets and the breaker would never know. That's a recipe for a fire.
Jim
Yes and no...
Any appliance which requires a 20-amp breaker is going to have one of the prongs on the plug turned sideways. Unlikely you'll be using an appliance like that on the bus, and you won't get that plugged into a 15-amp outlet.
Could someone plug two 15-amp appliances into a duplex outlet and overload a 15-amp breaker? Sure, but it would also blow a 20-amp breaker.
Check out nearly any residential kitchen in the US which has been wired in the past few decades, and you're likely to see only 15-amp outlets installed on 20-amp circuits.
A 15A rated outlet won't even get the least bit warm on a 20A CB let alone catch fire!
The beauty of ridged metallic conduit & steel J-Boxes is total containment of fire, explosion, etc.
I'll still maintain that the ratings are there for a reason. Fortunately there is a safety factor built in, but that is for the end user's safety, not the convenience of the builder. A duplex outlet is easily capable of being overloaded. Very easy to plug in two devices that each draw 10a. And I know you've all seen and even occasionally used those multi-plug adapters of various sorts. The best preventative is multiple outlets each with their own feed but you can never know exactly where you want them after until you've been living in it for awhile, and then needs change.
Under ideal conditions a 15a outlet will handle 20a, at least for awhile. But conditions will always deteriorate. Ever live in a 30 year old house where the cords won't stay plugged into the outlets? I have. All it takes is one poor connection. Resistance in an electrical circuit creates heat. Heat generally makes connections worse, with cascading effect. Maybe you notice the blackened plug or outlet, maybe you don't but the next stage is open flame. Why take a chance on that when for another buck you can completely avoid it? 15a outlets are for builders, not owners.
Oh, and those 15a outlets on a 20a circuit? Those are daisy chained together. Again, for the convenience of the builder. Install the extra wires. Make it safe. If your bus burns down it'll do it in about 5 minutes flat.
Jim
Aside from everything else, one major reason I will always install 15-amp outlets on a 20-amp circuit is because I don't want anyone actually plugging a 20-amp appliance into one. Great way to limit the circuits to devices of less than 15-amp draw.
Double checking myself on this, in my re-reading of the code online it does appear that this is allowed in the US, and it also seems that the 15a outlets are rated for a 20a passthrough, meaning that the internals are the same on both 15a and 20a outlets, the difference being the face. One will allow insertion of a 20a plug and one will not.
There are only two outlets in my house with 20-amp receptacles in them - both installed with single receptacle outlets, both next to a window, each on their own circuit, and each intended to run a large window a/c unit.
WOW
r codes must be more strict than yours
15 anp outlet = 14 g wire = 15 amp breaker
20 amp outlet = 12 g wire = 20 amp breaker
and if they look they will give you sh%t if they see the larger wire used than needed
4 the coach just use 12 g wire and 20 amp outlet's & breakers , it's not very much more $$
than no worries
Quote from: sledhead on February 05, 2022, 09:59:09 AM
WOW
r codes must be more strict than yours
15 anp outlet = 14 g wire = 15 amp breaker
20 amp outlet = 12 g wire = 20 amp breaker
and if they look they will give you sh%t if they see the larger wire used than needed
4 the coach just use 12 g wire and 20 amp outlet's & breakers , it's not very much more $$
than no worries
Best I could tell the only difference was that we're allowed to put 15-amp outlets on a 20-amp breaker/circuit. You guys are not. Not sure why the difference - perhaps at one time the 15-amp outlets didn't carry a 20-amp passthrough rating like now.
that could be
when I see the 20 amp outlet I think of a 20 amp breaker
but most times I think it is just keeping the inspector happy and they all have there little querks
Quote from: sledhead on February 05, 2022, 12:15:27 PM
that could be
but most times I think it is just keeping the inspector happy and they all have there little querks
Boy howdy, do they. My old shop building had old-school 240v 3-phase. The particulars of the system were odd, and very few electricians knew how to work with it. Just my luck the inspector was also the instructor for the certification class for this system. Good and bad - he was able to teach my electrician a few things, but he definitely had his quirks about how he like to have things done including a specific way to label things. Was really glad to get that project approved, and it only took a few inspections to get there.
If someone will point me in the right direction, I'll post a picture of a receptacle where the screw was not real tight. Picture is on my computer.
Thanks
When you are typing your reply, there is a spot underneath the text box which has the word "Attach" and immediately beneath that is a place to select the file you want. As long as the photo is in a compatible format you just click on the "Choose File" button and then navigate to the photo, select it and then click on whatever your system shows you as a confirmation button (on my computer it says "Upload). Then the photo is attached.
Much easier if you have the photo in a place you can get to easily, like on the desktop or another folder towards the top of your file directory.
Thank you, Richard.
This picture is of a 15amp receptacle that was in my house in the kitchen on a GFI and 20 amp circuit breaker. No appliances were "on" on the circuit that is daisy-link wired. The GFI or the circuit breaker did not trip. We didn't notice the problem until we smelled the plastic and wire melting.
When I removed the receptacle all screws were real tight, except the one that melted was not real tight, but slightly loose. Fortunately we were home and not on the road when this happened.
So, make sure all your screws are tight. In a moving vehicle with the vibration it is vitally important.
Good thing you caught that.
When a screw is loose, all bets are off. Re-torque of the major conductors (shore power feed, transfer switch, etc) is on my annual checklist.
Also, just because a reg says the internals "can be" the same doesn't mean they are. Even if it says they "must be" the same it doesn't always work out that way in actual practice. Very few plugs have a horizontal blade. Some window AC units and that's about it. Much more likely to overload an outlet with one of those 6:2 plug ins or a plug in outlet strip. Failure points on an outlet include the wire attachment and also the internal contact blades, which can lose their springiness and also corrode. You makes your choices and takes your chances.
That photo aptly illustrates the dangers. And just in case you didn't know it, 60hz power contains an inherent vibration all of it's own.
Jim
Kind of reminds me of root cause analysis of a large combination wrench which caused a broken finger performed by nuclear power plant safety team.
Well yeah, but we can all agree that fire is a bad thing, right? At least an uncontrolled one... in a bus.
Jim
Fire can be a very bad thing - especially an uncontrolled one on the human body. I once laid in intensive care for a spell will an uncontrolled body fire but it was caused by gasoline & not electrical.
So my answer to your Right? question is Yes...
I should have gone to hospital. But we were expected to 'walk it off' and 'not interrupt'. You can bet it's not the way I raised my children and I still carry lots of scars. Never did think it was right, so you look for better ways. Some of those 'hard lessons' are things that affect all your later decisions. And they say it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Who am I to argue?
Jim
I wouldn't use SO cord in a bus. It isn't designed to be buried in walls and such. I originally used marine cable, but I have been using stranded MC cable for recent electrical changes. The big box stores generally don't have stranded MC cable so you'll have to go to a supply house or order it online. I used the receptacles with the clamping plates. I have no 110 volt switches.
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on February 06, 2022, 08:53:54 AM
And just in case you didn't know it, 60hz power contains an inherent vibration all of it's own.
Now that you mention that is right. I wondered why my hand vibrated while holding the kitchen knife in the socket. Seems about 60 cycles is correct. LOL
Quote from: windtrader on February 07, 2022, 09:43:42 AM
Now that you mention that is right. I wondered why my hand vibrated while holding the kitchen knife in the socket. Seems about 60 cycles is correct. LOL
LMAO
thanks
Line voltage can also play music - anyone remember the 60-cycle hum we'd get when a turntable wasn't properly grounded?
Did not read all the posts so this may have been mentioned. Why would you want your LED lights on 120 volts? I wired mine 12 volt to the batteries.