more pictures
I am guessing a few people might be saying " Those are the windows we need!". Maybe not. Maybe not a bus many have in this club. Isn't it a fishbowl GM. Used mostly as a city bus? Inside is a mess.
All of the lights and many items are intact. Now we just need permission. Hate to see it rotting away, but maybe almost nobody converts one of these? I am too new to know.
http://www.omot.org/roster/GMList/tdh3301.html
I'm pretty sure our local bus company had one. My brother and dad drove for them some in their early years. Remembering him mention one of the busses had a Toroflo in it.
Neat buses that is the 29ft TDH 3301 with the T drive and the GM V6-478 ToroFlo diesel not many were built
I wonder if that set up would allow a modern CUMMINS 6.7 with and ALLISON or a PSI 8L. V8, older GM big block V8 or FORD V10 if you want a gasoline engine? That is if it's T drive, you would be limited if it was a V drive.
Duromax or 6.7 Ford V-8 detuned to 300hp and 660lb/ft torque would work ideal.
That is a really unique bus. Never seen one that short of that era. Engine is one I've never seen before. Most easiest swap would be to go with a gas V8 as it would have the proper torque or close enough to move it. I would hope it would get restored but in todays climate of expense, sadly it will probably get scrapped. Sad indeed.
Thanks for sharing this.
Just redo the engine in it. Much easier.
Ted,
Clifford(Luvrbus) is right. Called a "Baby New Look". Neat bus with a total production of 500 units over a 5 year period. Not many still survive, afaik.
Unless it's a rotted out hulk, which it doesn't appear to be, it ought to be saved. I'd like to ride up, maybe tomorrow, and take a look at it and maybe try to contact the property owners to see what, if any, their plans are.
I have pm'd you my phone number. Call me when you get a chance.
Bob
I will be near it tomorrow. Can meet you anytime and give you all I have on the owners info.
Will call you in the morning.
Sounds good, thanks.
Quote from: chessie4905 on January 26, 2022, 01:37:45 PM
Just redo the engine in it. Much easier.
Those TOROFLOW diesels were not very good in the first place. They were built on the foundation of the GMC V6 gasoline engines which were great but the diesel not so.
GM had it's DETROIT DIESEL division that built gold standard engines yet they built that and OLDSMOBILE's diesel disaster.
remember that the Chevy small block was a disaster when it came out. Massive oil consumption issues. 82 Olds diesels held up well, but GM ceased production in fall of 84 due to the significant drop in gas prices. Volkswagen shortly after discontinued availability of diesels in Rabbits also. Emission requirements and large drop in diesel demand with cheap gas again.
I had one of those Oldsmobile V-6 Diesels, and I really liked it as a car, but that would be really weak in a 29' bus. The glow plug controller would fail on a steady basis, but otherwise it was dependable.
The Olds diesel was based on the 350 V8 and the only real problem with the engine was that they didn't initially beef up the distributor drive to run the injector pump. So some of the early units failed and since that also drove the oil pump, well there you go. Later fixed, the drive used a hex shaft which should have been upgraded. Otherwise the engine was well suited as it had large bearing journals and solid construction. It was simply a lower deck version of the 455 block.
The other and more frequent problem was with fueling or more precisely fuel filtration. The small filter they fitted, although considerably larger than that used for a gas engine was nowhere near large enough to remove the water and impurities then present in the available fuel and they had to be changed very frequently and were rather expensive. If they were not the car would just stop running. We had one and aside from those two things it was a fine automobile. Luckily when the drive failed on ours it didn't wreck the bearings and the upgraded parts fixed it.
Jim
I liked the T drive in the GM lol 1st time I saw one in the baby bus I thought GM finally got it.I have a buddy with one we installed a turbo 3208 Cat in years back he was going to convert to a RV then he sold it to someone in Mexico they are neat with the side entry
I had a '79 Olds Cutlass Salon-ugly 4 door with a fast back. It came with the 260 at 80hp and was a slug. That engine went at 32,000 miles and put in a 350 Diesel. Then with the additional power, found out the transmission (turbo 200) was slipping. Found a transmission shop that was willing to switch it to a turbo 350 transmission-no more transmission problems. Then the 350 cracked pistons-another 350 installed. That one cracked the block. Another 350 installed-now we're at 120,000 miles. This one the injector pump quit and they wanted $800 for a rebuild-car towed to the wreckers. Too bad-when it ran, it had good power and got about 25mpg. I liked the car, it was a striped version with crank windows, bench seat, good A/C and heat. Good Luck, TomC
Majority of early engine failures was from thin wrist pin bushings. They would pound out, rotate, and allow one side of piston to hit head, breaking piston. They started using a steel backed thicker bushing starting in 81 and designated a dx cast on the blocks.Another issue was repeated wear of rocker arm supports. The little top cap on the valve lifter had a bump which a flat disc rocked to meter oil to the rocker arms. This bump would wear away and start starving the valve train of oil. In 81, they went to roller lifters and ended this issue.
Fuel system: sock filter in tank would plug from slime/ water in fuel issues early on. They went to a sock with bypass checkvalve around 1980. The RoosaMaster injection pump had an elastic ring on the governor weight holder. The engine heat caused this elastic ring to harden and start disintegrating, plugging fuel return check valve at top of pump. GM issued a fix in that the ring was replaced with a riveted one. Several smaller issues of course. They were pretty decent from about 82 on.
My second car was a 1982 CHEVROLET MALIBU. Mine didn't have the diesel but it was available. The section in the owners manual was...make sure you do this but not that but if this happens, you must not do that. If this light comes on it indicates that something is wrong with that and you must do this otherwise...enough to scare anyone from diesel.
I had those diesel engines in a car and 2 pickups starter problems was the only problem I ever had with one with a 100,000 miles plus
In my area in the late 70's into the 80's there were a ton of the V6,5.7,6.2 diesels in cars and pickups. A lot of farmers had them and ran road tax free farm diesel in them. Some held up well and some got switched to gas engines. Had a BIL that was a salesmen at the time and he got 300,000 plus on a 5.7 in a two wheel half ton pickup. One pump ring a set of head gaskets and a number of glow plugs and controller's. Truck wasn't a power house but the MPG was great.
I had and drove a converted 1968 40 ft x 8.5 ft "Fishbowl" for about 14 years. The family and I drove it thousands of miles all over Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, etc. We had a lot of fun in it. As a matter of fact, my daughter just bought me a 1:15 model replica of it last Christmas. Pretty cool. It had a V-drive 2 speed Allison and Detroit V6. It ran pretty good until it quit running. It would take any short hill no matter how steep, but it would peter out as soon as it shifted to 2nd gear. Top speed was 58 mpg. Adjacent motorists would inform me that I was the number one guy on the road when we were going over mountain passes. If I recall, Utah had signs on the freeways that said you couldn't go below 45 mpg or something like that, so I was pretty nervous about that on long grades! When I scrapped it, I took out the water heater, furnace, etc., so it looked almost like the one in the pictures with the hole in the wall. The major drawback with those is there are no bays, so it was very limited, but still a fun bus to drive. It had one of those 3 ft diameter steering wheels that you knew you had been driving after parking it. The longest we drove it in one day (if I recall correctly) was about 6 hours. I drive mostly left handed, so my left arm was pretty sore by then. We even took the bus on a few ferry rides. Those were good times!
MCTS here in Milwaukee had about 500 of those 40' NEW LOOKS. They were very well liked and were good tough buses. In fact the last one's they bought(1967) were completely rebuilt in the 1990's so they were pretty much brand new afterward. However, they still kept the 6V-71 with the 2 speed ALLISON. Only 170 HP so they were very slow but for stop and go they were fine. Rode on many and it felt and sounded like a plane about to take off at any speed over 40mph. On the expressway they really screamed at about 50-55.
My AMGeneral 10240B transit has a 8V-71 with V730 Allison. It cruises at 60mph at 1900rpm all day long. I turbo'd it and with 375hp and 1125lb/ft torque, it keeps up on most grades with the trucks. Turboing REALLY wakes up the 71 series. Good Luck, TomC
MY father had a diesel Caddy when they came out. The first engine failed after about 2 years but was replaced under the extended warranty. The new engine was a big improvement, but for some reason did not survive when my niece borrowed it and drove it 100 miles without oil.
My first bus was a 1967 Superior Super Cruiser with the Toroflow engine. There was a lot negative said about it but it just kept on going however weakly. That engine, like many, had a lot of problems at the beginning but were mostly worked out. Luke said is was not a bad engine but was often used in heavier applications than were reasonable.
Quote from: TomC on January 29, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
My AMGeneral 10240B transit has a 8V-71 with V730 Allison. It cruises at 60mph at 1900rpm all day long. I turbo'd it and with 375hp and 1125lb/ft torque, it keeps up on most grades with the trucks. Turboing REALLY wakes up the 71 series. Good Luck, TomC
But then again if the gearing isn't changed, all the power in the world won't change much. Those old VH 2 speeds were pretty much suited for stop and go around town not too much on the highway.