My Trace SW2500 inverter has been left on for 20 years. I never turn it off except for a few maintenance times. I just bought a new set of 6 volt golf cart batteries. I have averaged 5 years for each set. I am always plugged in to shore power when the coach is not in use. I was wondering if anyone gets more time than 5 years out of a similar setup. If so, do you do anything different than I do?
I always buy my batteries from Sam's. The first set bought in 2001, each battery was $45. Last week I paid $124 each. Inflation is very real.
David
I'll admit Sam's has great prices on their batteries but duration is not so great. All batteries are not created equal - including from the same of the few battery manufacturers. Never was able to get 5 years out of a Sams Club battery - we're not talking golf cart batteries - but 8Ds and deep cycle group 29 & 31. We changed to NAPA years ago and just replaced all our group 31s & 8D hybrids at 6-1/2 years. We expect to go farther with this latest purchase as we now have state of the art four stage chargers. NAPA "flat top" hybrids last the longest of any battery brand we've purchased in the last 42 years...
trouble is that Vendors change battery manufacturers frequently, so a brand that was mfg by Deka for example may now be mfg by say Interstate. OR mfg starts cutting quality of their batteries to be more competitive. Brother used to sell Interstates and changed brands because of too many batteries coming back under warranty. I ran into this in AC Delcos years ago. Batteries leaking acid around case where terminals attached. Last one I bought, the side terminal broke and stub came right out of the case. Dealer wouldn't cover it, even though I had purchased 20 or more of them over the years(diesels use two). Last Delco I ever bought.
I ran across this blog some years ago. You may not agree with everything he says but he and his wife full time OFF THE GRID WITHOUT A GENERATOR. Plus he's a retired electrical engineer. He's a crotchety old cuss as well. Hard reading but good info if you can stand it.
TOM
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/
Quote from: David Anderson on December 20, 2021, 08:04:05 PM
My Trace SW2500 inverter has been left on for 20 years. I never turn it off except for a few maintenance times. I just bought a new set of 6 volt golf cart batteries. I have averaged 5 years for each set. I am always plugged in to shore power when the coach is not in use. I was wondering if anyone gets more time than 5 years out of a similar setup. If so, do you do anything different than I do?
I always buy my batteries from Sam's. The first set bought in 2001, each battery was $45. Last week I paid $124 each. Inflation is very real.
David
how often do you equalize your battery bank ?
I do mine 2-3 times a year depending on use and get 7-10 years out of 6v batteries from my truck parts guy.
the set I have now are 2016 and still working good but with in 2 years they will need to be replaced
is your inverter / charger a 3 or 4 stage charger ?
dave
Acid batteries life depend on cycles and the region,living in Idaho a battery would last 8 years,lol living in the AZ heat I am lucky to get 2 years from any manufacture.In the Trek RV Sam's golf cart batteries were ok they would last about 5 years ,we don't have very many batteries manufactures left in the US ,Johnson Control and Deka are the 2 main suppliers for lead acid batteries for Sam's ,Napa,Costco and Interstate
I got nearly 7 years out of my first pair of Trojan golf cart batteries and I was anything but careful with them. I'm being more careful with the second pair of Trojans charging with a three stage charger on the post and a 4 stage Sterling B2B on the road. Hope they (and I) get ten years. Ha! Jack
Quote from: sledhead on December 21, 2021, 05:57:38 AM
how often do you equalize your battery bank ?
I do mine 2-3 times a year depending on use and get 7-10 years out of 6v batteries from my truck parts guy.
the set I have now are 2016 and still working good but with in 2 years they will need to be replaced
is your inverter / charger a 3 or 4 stage charger ?
dave
I equalize about 2 times annually, generally about 15.4 volts until the batteries get a bit warm or around 2 hours.
Float voltage 13.1. I just raised it to 13.2 for the new set.
The Trace SW 2512 is a 3 stage charger. I run my genny on the road when I run 3 AC's so the batts get the normal shore power type charging. Otherwise, with genny off I merge the bank with my 350amp Neihoff alternator. It keeps them at 13.9 to 14.0 volts
Since you get 7 years, I just curious as to what you do different than I.
David
coach is pluged in when not in use and most times when on the road we use the inverter for most stuff so not to much drain on the batteries , but when dry camping the batteries get a good work out as I only use the genny when I have to .
after I get home and check the batteries for water and top them up if needed,
than I plug in and charge the batteries to full charge .
then the next day I put the batteries in a eq. cycle and my magnum runs the cycle . depending on the time since the last eq charge it can take some time( 2-4 hrs ?) and all you can here is the bubbling from the batteries . I let the magnum do its thing .
after doing this every time the batteries take longer to run down
I only equlize them after a good work out
dave
Quote from: oldmansax on December 21, 2021, 04:32:16 AM
I ran across this blog some years ago. You may not agree with everything he says but he and his wife full time OFF THE GRID WITHOUT A GENERATOR. Plus he's a retired electrical engineer. He's a crotchety old cuss as well. Hard reading but good info if you can stand it.
TOM
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/
That was a great read. Thanks for posting that. Concerning his methods with the batteries, I have never used 14.8 in the bulk rate charge. Wow, that seems hot, but as long as I maintained the electrolyte levels, not sure it would matter. My Trace does utilize temperature sensing which would adjust for hot/cold temps.
Also be aware that the 14.8V recommendation came from Trojan and has proven to be a bit too high. You will find later pages where I address this. He posted that near the beginning concerning voltages, but I don't remember him addressing it later about a reduction. Not sure how to resolve what he said.
I did find this on another forum concerning the DEKA EGC2 batteries sold at Sam's. See below:
The Sam's East Penn made Duracell GC2 is a Deka GC-10 with a Duracell Sticker. The Sam's EGC2 is a Deka GC-15 with a Duracell Sticker.
The recommendations from East Penn, for that battery, in a cycling / off-grid application are. (Note: floats are higher in off-grid than typical golf cart use).
At 12V:
Max Charge Current = 30% or less of Ah capacity (20 hour)
Absorption Voltage = 14.4V - 14.7V
Absorption End Point = Current change over 1 hour period of less than 0.1A
Max Absorption Time = 12 Hours
Float Voltage = 13.8V - 14.1V
Float End Time = No Limit
Equalization = 15.0V to 15.3V
Equalization End Point = Current change over 1 hour period of less than 0.1A
Max Equalization Time = 12 Hours
Temp Compensation = -.018V for every degree °C rise above 25C
Note:
For dock charging you may want to compensate float down to 13.4V to 13.6V the guidance above is for off-grid or deep cycling applications where the batteries are cycled daily.
Stick to the 14.7V end of the absorption range and the batteries will do much better if they are cycled while cruising.
__________________
Marine How To Articles
David
Quote from: sledhead on December 21, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
coach is pluged in when not in use and most times when on the road we use the inverter for most stuff so not to much drain on the batteries , but when dry camping the batteries get a good work out as I only use the genny when I have to .
after I get home and check the batteries for water and top them up if needed,
than I plug in and charge the batteries to full charge .
then the next day I put the batteries in a eq. cycle and my magnum runs the cycle . depending on the time since the last eq charge it can take some time( 2-4 hrs ?) and all you can here is the bubbling from the batteries . I let the magnum do its thing .
after doing this every time the batteries take longer to run down
I only equlize them after a good work out
dave
That is similar to my method. What is your bulk charge volts? and what is your float volts. I have been using 14.4 bulk and 13.1 float.
David
The long gone old busnuts reported to get the best life out of lead acid, aiming for a delicate balance in water consumption, depending on whether the batteries were be "used" or whether they were just sitting around, with an eye to the manufacturer's charging recommendations.
These were the days before solar finishing, so the generator, the power pole or the engine driven alternator enroute to the next camping spot, were the charge sources.
The bias was to charge them hard when using, and back off when sitting around.
Water use when using, off pole camping, extended trip, daily boondocking, was expected, perhaps demanded; water use when sitting around, not really consuming anything, hooked to the pole or parked at home, was to be kept to a minimum.
Every busnut uses their coach differently, so every busnut will fiddle with the voltages and charge durations a little differently.
If your batteries lasted for 7 years +, you bought good batteries and treated them correctly FOR YOUR STYLE OF USAGE.
One busnut's successful charging strategy will be another's failure.
The winner is determined by the years in service, no instant gratification here.
Sorry, it isn't a popular answer in today's desire to copy something someone else does...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on December 21, 2021, 05:55:26 PM
Sorry, it isn't a popular answer in today's desire to copy something someone else does...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
You know those old bus nuts where happy to just have the radio on and little bit of TV now and then.
Us super educated modern consumers want to do:
TV via the internet
Smart phones
Tablets
Hot water
Microwave
Instant hot coffee maker
Air Conditioning
Etc...
PS. Remember when you would run down a car's battery by leaving the radio on for twenty minutes?
David,
I need to read HandyBobs article again but I THINK he says to check the battery manufacturers specs for the specific charging profile because each battery may be different, then set your charger accordingly. You're right that he specifies 14.8V for Trojans. I think he like those! ;D . He is hard core though! ;D
TOM
Quote from: oldmansax on December 22, 2021, 05:49:13 AM
David,
I need to read HandyBobs article again but I THINK he says to check the battery manufacturers specs for the specific charging profile because each battery may be different, then set your charger accordingly. You're right that he specifies 14.8V for Trojans. I think he like those! ;D . He is hard core though! ;D
TOM
You would think that the battery mfgs would put the charging specs out there readily available, but being a curmudgeon like Handybob, I think they want us to screw them up so we have to buy new ones sooner. They relish the method of keeping us uniformed. The only place I could find anything about DEKA battery charging specs was on the marine forum. There may be more info elswhere, but I didn't find it. I am going to set my bulk rate at 14.7 and keep a close watch on the electrolyte.
It appears 5 years is about average for a set. 7 would be nice, but battery replacement is just another joy of bus ownership ;D
David
My 2-8D Lifeline AGM batteries are 7 years old now and still going strong. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: David Anderson on December 22, 2021, 07:00:35 AM
You would think that the battery mfgs would put the charging specs out there readily available, but being a curmudgeon like Handybob, I think they want us to screw them up so we have to buy new ones sooner. They relish the method of keeping us uniformed. David
Ain't it the truth! And battery mfgs are not the only ones! >:( I made it a practice sometime back to copy and preserve just about ANY specs I happen to find; even for stuff I don't own..... Hey, I might own one someday! ;D The reason there are fewer and fewer specs is because there are fewer and fewer people who want them or know what to do with them. It's a sad state of affairs.
TOM
Quote from: David Anderson on December 22, 2021, 07:00:35 AM
You would think that the battery mfgs would put the charging specs out there readily available, but being a curmudgeon like Handybob, I think they want us to screw them up so we have to buy new ones sooner. They relish the method of keeping us uniformed. The only place I could find anything about DEKA battery charging specs was on the marine forum. There may be more info elswhere, but I didn't find it. I am going to set my bulk rate at 14.7 and keep a close watch on the electrolyte.
It appears 5 years is about average for a set. 7 would be nice, but battery replacement is just another joy of bus ownership ;D
David
Did you check their main website for the flyer for your particular batteries?
https://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com
I found lots of information there, but not sure which is for yours.
Quote from: David Anderson on December 21, 2021, 03:22:34 PM
That is similar to my method. What is your bulk charge volts? and what is your float volts. I have been using 14.4 bulk and 13.1 float.
David
I checked the inverter and the float is 13.7 and than I did a eq. charge and that is 15.8 v but it was not long ago that I did a eq charge so it did not take long to go through that
did not see a bulk charge as the batteries were fully charged
dave