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MCI NEW FLYER all electric commuter bus.172 mile range, maybe not good for LA. I think this means a lot of As thru Js will come up for sale, lvmci...

I certainly hope these work well for MCI and their long time customers. I'm very skeptical but will see how things go. They may prove well for short haul within a region or transit buses. But longer charter trips? Not sure yet but time will tell.

That's not MCI 1st go at it Tulsa County had a D electric based bus for years and sold it off last year at auction,they never could keep it on the road

I thought that was a hybrid. Regardless, we can cheer them on with a few grains of salt.

Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 01, 2021, 01:04:37 PM
I thought that was a hybrid. Regardless, we can cheer them on with a few grains of salt.

I am going to hang with my ISX 15 Cummins I can do a starter and 2 batteries 

MCI in Los Alimitos, CA had a couple of LA County's local CNG buses, they emitted very low pollution levels, in their shop when I was there,  from their commuter lines, lvmci...(compressed natural gas)

Our local bus company has been using cng ones for about 20 years now. I believe they took advantage of some kind of federal incentives to switch over.

Quote from: chessie4905 on December 02, 2021, 03:34:04 AM
Our local bus company has been using cng ones for about 20 years now. I believe they took advantage of some kind of federal incentives to switch over.

The City of El Paso had 150 CNG Detroit Series 50. Detroit paid the City to replace the series 50 with the Cummins CNG engines.Cummins is the only manufacture left for CNG engines in buses both Detroit and John Deere tossed in the towel 

Cummins has been in the CNG game from the beginning. It is no small bit of engineering required to get the engines to get both good fuel economy, and not eat valves.

Cummins had their race people from the marine engine side working on them, back in the 90's. Old hot road challenge, lean burn eating valves.

It was amazing to see the tops of the pistons after a valve snapped off... absolute destruction!

But those problems were worked out, with evolving fuel control improvements.

Cummins/Westport are the names you'll see together.

The others thought they would dabble...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Are the CNG buses only CNG or can you run them on Diesel in a pinch?

Quote from: freds on December 02, 2021, 06:53:20 PM
Are the CNG buses only CNG or can you run them on Diesel in a pinch?

No diesel CNG only ,there are a couple of 60 series Detroit around here that use CNG they sure sound funny running

Quote from: freds on December 02, 2021, 06:53:20 PM
Are the CNG buses only CNG or can you run them on Diesel in a pinch?

Spark ignition engine, just like gasoline.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

After the fiasco of BYD's under-performing electric buses and their all-too-cozy relationship with the State of California, I remain to be convinced about the usefulness of current battery buses.   Note I said battery buses  -  I recently noticed a new OCTA bus that instead of saying CNG on the back like all of them now it said CH2 (and it was silent).   Not knowing what that was, I looked it up  -  it's a hydrogen fuel cell bus, and OCTA has ten of them.   I expect their range will be better than a battery bus, but the big question mark to me is how their hydrogen is made.   Hydrogen isn't a fuel per se, more an energy storage medium like a battery, and because hydrogen itself does not naturally occur on this planet, how much energy and pollution does it take to make it, and from what non-renewable hydrocarbon source?   Yes, I know that theoretically one could split water by using PV-generated electricity, but I somehow doubt that's how those buses' hydrogen is made.   Ballard has been making fuel cell buses for a while now, so the technology is approaching being mature  -  maybe it's a more practical alternative to battery buses, at least for now?

Here's OCTA's blurb about those new buses:  https://www.octa.net/Bus/Hydrogen-Fuel-Cell-Electric-Bus/Overview/

John

CNG has been popular in Utah and Nev since the 80's most stations in Utah have pumps for CNG.lot of UPS highway trucks are CNG power.I saw some Waste Mangement trash trucks with CH2 they are quite

Hydrogen is made by using electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. If we go that route for energy storage (very feasible but not cheap) the environmentalists will start howling about too much oxygen poisoning the atmosphere.

Jim

Local transit agencies use several dozen MCI (and a few Prevost) D series buses for express service.  172 miles would be enough for the morning or evening rush hour so long as they charged them during the day.  The buses also could be charged for ten to twenty minutes while sitting at the park and ride between trips.

New Flyer electric articulated transit buses are already used for one bus route locally.  They are charged for 10 to 30 minutes at the transit stop on one end of the route while the driver takes their break or whatever.  They were out of commission for at least six months, but it was because the chargers were having issues, not the buses.  I haven't heard of any issues since they were put back in service.  Metro Transit just ordered a bunch more diesel buses.  A lot of people are upset they didn't order electric buses.

Well you hit the key point in that there has to be a reliable charging structure in place first. Great intentions are fine but when you can't often get people in the same building to cooperate on something, it could take awhile. I think about an MCI J on an extended charter. They get to the prescribed hotel only to be told by some young 20 something that the charger either doesn't work or he/she isn't allowed to permit the driver to use it or some lack of training or communication that louses the whole experience up. In other words, they better keep a small generator in the luggage bay for such things.

And enough diesel fuel onboard to be the equivalent of the charge needed to get home? In other words, a standard sized diesel tank. Hey, no delays here! We're doing JIT transportation! You didn't need to bring any stowable luggage anyway, right?

Jim

I meant a portable with a lawnmower engine.

I assume the electric J model would only be for short trips around the city at this point.  I doubt any operator would use the current model for going very far out of town.  Doesn't it need four hours to recharge with a special high power charger?

Cummins sees the writing on the wall. Hard to believe there are still naysayers here about alternative power sources in vehicles. Not sure the specifics but basically CA has mandated the extinction of carbon fuels. Look what they did to the 2 stroke engines when they mandated conversion to 4 strokes. going to happen again and in short order. No need to debate it, just watch the developments and improved tech and efficiency.


and of course Tesla semi is coming very soon, less than a year


https://www.cummins.com/new-power (https://www.cummins.com/new-power)


https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2021/12/01/cummins-accelerates-hydrogen-innovation-california-and-beyond-new-west (https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2021/12/01/cummins-accelerates-hydrogen-innovation-california-and-beyond-new-west)


Cummins in the battery business
https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2021/11/30/cummins-invests-sion-power-develop-lithium-metal-technology (https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2021/11/30/cummins-invests-sion-power-develop-lithium-metal-technology)

CUMMINS has been near and dear to me for many many years. I know they are into electric movement and BLUEBIRD is using their system for their BEV school buses.
If it proves reliable as much as a gasoline or diesel engine, then I'm all for this. But they had better for the sake of their customers and long term survival of CUMMINS, make sure it's right before it's put in place. After all, BOEING has a recent history of building a couple lemons just because they were obsessed to change something that worked just because. How did that work out?

Point I was making is that it still takes the same amount of energy to get the vehicle home. Make no difference whether you use a small portable generator or an industrial power plant to get it, the only change is how long it takes. So the fuel tank for that small portable would still have to be the same size, as you would still have to park and wait to do the fuel burn.

Jim