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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: olebusman on November 06, 2021, 07:59:30 AM

Title: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 06, 2021, 07:59:30 AM
Well, I guess I'm 1 of them. I'm broke down in Pigeon Forge
My fan drive gave up the ghost. I have a 4106 with a 6V92 out of a flxible grumnum, can't spell. It has a direct drive fan and it just free wheels. Does anybody on the east have parts or a whole unit.
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Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 06, 2021, 08:28:54 AM
try Luke at U S Coach New Berlin, N.J.
I have  a direct drive one on an 8v-71 out of a 4905 sitting in shop, but suspect it is different from yours. I guess you don't have the donut shaped torus type either.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: richard5933 on November 06, 2021, 10:36:38 AM
Are those units really direct drive or do they have a gearing inside them. If my memory is correct, those are rebuildable. Hopefully Luke will have the necessary parts to get yours back on the road again without too much trouble.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 06, 2021, 12:13:58 PM
I've got the fan drive off. All I need is the coupling from the crankshaft to the fan drive. It's a drive with a rubber center to dampen the pulses of the crank to the fan housing. Does that sound like what you have Chessie? I've called Luke twice and no callback. Do you guys need a picture of the dampener
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: Bill Gerrie on November 06, 2021, 01:31:19 PM
John
Keep trying Luke. I got parts once for mine from him. I have never had the drive off so no idea of what it looks like.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 06, 2021, 01:42:43 PM
I thought I had that coupling but guess it got tossed or I gave it to Larry for his
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: RJ on November 06, 2021, 01:47:39 PM
Quote from: olebusman on November 06, 2021, 12:13:58 PM
I've called Luke twice and no callback.

FYI, Luke doesn't work weekends, only M-F 9:30 - 4:00 Eastern. 1-888-262-2434.

FWIW & HTH . . . ;)
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 06, 2021, 01:57:21 PM
Quote from: richard5933 on November 06, 2021, 10:36:38 AM
Are those units really direct drive or do they have a gearing inside them. If my memory is correct, those are rebuildable. Hopefully Luke will have the necessary parts to get yours back on the road again without too much trouble.

Some are direct drive other have clutch package the oil engages
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 06, 2021, 01:59:00 PM
Quote from: richard5933 on November 06, 2021, 10:36:38 AM
Are those units really direct drive or do they have a gearing inside them. If my memory is correct, those are rebuildable. Hopefully Luke will have the necessary parts to get yours back on the road again without too much trouble.

Some are direct drive other have clutch package the oil engages,Luke didn't have the coupling when Larry was looking for one,me I would find a belt drive from a RTS and lose the GM drive 
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: richard5933 on November 06, 2021, 05:35:38 PM
GM used the torus drive on some buses like the 4106 and some Buffalo models.  On others, like my 4108 they didn't. From a quick glance mine looks like a direct drive, but it's not. True, it's a mechanically driven fan and not hydraulically driven but it's not a direct drive. According to the manual it's driven at a ratio of 1.0 to 1.59 and there are many moving parts inside there to go bad.

If you called Luke today you won't get a callback till Monday. He isn't open on weekends.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 06, 2021, 05:49:15 PM
Quote from: richard5933 on November 06, 2021, 05:35:38 PM
GM used the torus drive on some buses like the 4106 and some Buffalo models.  On others, like my 4108 they didn't. From a quick glance mine looks like a direct drive, but it's not. True, it's a mechanically driven fan and not hydraulically driven but it's not a direct drive. According to the manual it's driven at a ratio of 1.0 to 1.59 and there are many moving parts inside there to go bad.

If you called Luke today you won't get a callback till Monday. He isn't open on weekends.
[/quote

Richard he doesn't have the old  GM parlor coach drive some transits had a direct drive with a fan clutch some were belt driven some had the drive with the clutch pack from the 6v92 sounds like your drive has the clutch pack inside the housing but there is a direct drive.I removed one from Red Riders 8v71 him and Dan were trying to find parts to make it work on a 4106   
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 06, 2021, 05:59:56 PM
I'm setting here in a campground with no idea of where to find a coupling. The fan drive is out of a 82 grummen fixable transit ( 870 I think)I'm trying to post pictures. I might get lucky this time. Yes, I know Luke don't work weekends.  I talked to him twice on Friday
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 06, 2021, 06:05:32 PM
A couple more pictures.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: Bill Gerrie on November 06, 2021, 06:27:32 PM
Could you drill a hole and put a bolt through it to get you home? Maybe two ways for strength. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 07, 2021, 05:24:59 AM
Thanks for pictures. Will need to check today to see if mine is same.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 07, 2021, 08:25:55 AM
Quote from: RJ on November 06, 2021, 01:47:39 PM
FYI, Luke doesn't work weekends, only M-F 9:30 - 4:00 Eastern. 1-888-262-2434.

FWIW & HTH . . . ;)

Nope Mon through Thursday no longer works Fridays
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: richard5933 on November 07, 2021, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: Dave5Cs on November 07, 2021, 08:25:55 AM
Nope Mon through Thursday no longer works Fridays

Asked him about this specifically just a few weeks ago. He is working on Fridays because he's too busy to take the day off anymore.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 07, 2021, 09:12:53 AM
Bill, that would be ok but half the rubber is gone. Chunks come out when we took it apart .
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: Bill Gerrie on November 07, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
John
I've never seen the drive. Any way to jamb the rubber back temporarily. Wish I could help you.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: sledhead on November 07, 2021, 12:53:28 PM
to get you home how about drilling a hole in it and putting in a nut and bolt like Bill said but also injecting a good rtv silicone to fill the space then letting it dry ? so long as it does not vibrate it self to death ?

dave
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 07, 2021, 02:55:55 PM
here are pictures of mine. rubber insert is right at end of blade and a cross pin to hold it incase cushion fails. Maybe yours is off an RTS which could be different.

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 07, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
 Chessie, I was hoping but that is not the same. I'm afraid to cobble to much. It could take out the fan drive and/or the oil pump housing. Possibly the crank. I don't think I'm brave enough to chance it. Someone somewhere has one. I've just got to find it. Still broke down and still hoping. Is Gene Russell a possibility.  I'll call Luke again tomorrow. Maybe he has come up with something.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2021, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: olebusman on November 07, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Chessie, I was hoping but that is not the same. I'm afraid to cobble to much. It could take out the fan drive and/or the oil pump housing. Possibly the crank. I don't think I'm brave enough to chance it. Someone somewhere has one. I've just got to find it. Still broke down and still hoping. Is Gene Russell a possibility.  I'll call Luke again tomorrow. Maybe he has come up with something.

If all else fails find a used torus drive cheap they bolt up the same only thing you would add is a oil supply line and let it run full speed that coupling is a tough find from 40 years ago
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2021, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: richard5933 on November 07, 2021, 08:48:22 AM
Asked him about this specifically just a few weeks ago. He is working on Fridays because he's too busy to take the day off anymore.

Luke told me he was working 4 days a week to be with his wife before she passed away and is now back to 5 days a week
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2021, 06:27:36 PM
Quote from: olebusman on November 07, 2021, 09:12:53 AM
Bill, that would be ok but half the rubber is gone. Chunks come out when we took it apart .

There should be a outfit in Nashville that can repair that ,when I worked for Tennessee Gas there was a couple of places that did vulcanizing on our compressor coupling CRS but I believe it was Nashville Rubber and Gasket   
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 07, 2021, 06:34:25 PM
Also check an RTS site. That whole engine and trans probably similar fan drive setup

Try this one in the morning. Maybe they can help.
https://busfixx.tripod.com/busservice/id13.html
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2021, 07:14:52 PM
Quote from: chessie4905 on November 07, 2021, 06:34:25 PM
Also check an RTS site. That whole engine and trans probably similar fan drive setup

Try this one in the morning. Maybe they can help.
https://busfixx.tripod.com/busservice/id13.html

John the owner of that business died several years ago all his parts are setting in a old school house in Kansas and the wife has shut it down.A couple of us are trying to buy his inventory 
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 08, 2021, 06:08:54 AM
Does anybody have a phone number for Gene Russell. The number on the website is no good anymore.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 08, 2021, 06:40:37 AM
in case you have no luck. I can give you dimension from end of fan attachment to block.

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 08, 2021, 07:56:04 AM
measured mine. end of fan hub the blades are attached to absolute surface of cylinder block is 21" leading edge of blades, 1/2" back from end of hub.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: uncle ned on November 08, 2021, 08:54:56 AM


my number is 828---863good i hopeiiiii2102. 

uncle ned

   
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: uncle ned on November 08, 2021, 08:58:25 AM


Huggy has a 6v92 in a 04.  She has a belt drive fan off the crank up to a pulley that mounts the fan.

uncle ned

Gene has one of everthing gm.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 08, 2021, 09:06:09 AM
Quote from: uncle ned on November 08, 2021, 08:58:25 AM

Huggy has a 6v92 in a 04.  She has a belt drive fan off the crank up to a pulley that mounts the fan.

uncle ned

Those are so easy to convert to a belt I don't why people would fool the old fan drive


Gene has one of everthing gm.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 08, 2021, 09:35:37 AM
Luvrbus, I've never seen one to know if it will work with my setup. But thanks guys, I found one about 8 hrs away. That is toward my place in Florida so I can go home and get some gaskets and other stuff.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: RJ on November 08, 2021, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: olebusman on November 08, 2021, 09:35:37 AM
I found one about 8 hrs away. That is toward my place in Florida so I can go home and get some gaskets and other stuff.

A little late to the party, but if you need one, I have a used 4106 Torus drive stuffed in the back of my storage unit.

RJ
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: Bill Gerrie on November 09, 2021, 05:09:06 AM
John
If you still have the body heaters you can drive using them to cool the engine. It gets pretty hot inside but it does keep the engine from overheating. I have done it many years ago when I had an 8V71 and the fan drive quit. Just keep your speed down.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 15, 2021, 07:45:55 AM
 RJ, I appreciate you letting me know that you have a torus drive as I am now looking for one. The 2800 miles between us means i'm looking a little closer. The drive coupling I just put in is chunking rubber before I put it in but it got me home. It won't go anyplace until I can replace it with a torus drive. Hopefully someone closer has one. I would like to make the trip but don't think my drive make it but thank you. I'll keep it in mind. I think the shipping and your trouble to pack would be prohibitive.
Anybody closer to Fl. have one?
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 15, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
 Bill, all that is left is the defroster. I did make it home with a scary coupling. Now i'm looking for a torus drive to eliminate future problems.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: uncle ned on November 15, 2021, 08:49:15 AM

oldmanbus.  if you have a smart phone I can send you a picture of the fan drive on huggy.

Had heating problems with huggy and that was part of the solution.

@ belts driving the fan. and a special fan.

Cannot figure out how to send pictures here.

old man syndrome


uncle ned
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 15, 2021, 01:04:42 PM
did you check with Luke? I havethedirect fan drive with the dimensions shown in previous post. If it fits your distance or you need further info, let me know. I'm in central PA. Engine is in heated shop and you could come and take it off

Oh, btw, torus fans uses different blade.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 16, 2021, 06:02:47 AM
Have you looked into replacing coupling material with polyurethane? Several locations in Florida that deal with that material and injecting it. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 16, 2021, 06:03:12 AM
Have you looked into replacing coupling material with polyurethane? Several locations in Florida that deal with that material and injecting it. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 16, 2021, 09:18:50 AM
chessie, I didn't know the fans had a different bolt pattern. Damn, i've got a expensive 11 blade adjustable fan. Just great, everything working against me. O well ,I guess that's just being a busnut
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 16, 2021, 01:37:10 PM
you maybe ok as far as that goes. Took pictures of some of my stuff. I measured the ID of hole in center of blades. All three are the same. The nice one is off a v6 Flxible, note 6 blades. The damaged one is off a 4905. notice it has 8 blades and notched to clear radiator header. The one mounted on engine is 6 blades but much larger paddles and not notched. those other two are off the torus style units. Does bolt pattern look like yours?
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 17, 2021, 07:37:47 AM
Yes chessie mine looks like the six holes. The center hole looks the same (maybe) so I feel better.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on November 17, 2021, 08:11:55 AM
Didn't the OEM fan have a flange on the fan that fits inside the drive to center it up with 6 bolts for the direct drive and the torus used a outside flange for the fan center ?
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 17, 2021, 03:33:50 PM
Measured the lip diameter that centers fan blade. 3.675" provides a nice fit with hole in fan.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 20, 2021, 10:04:17 AM
RJ. Give me a call please. I'd like to talk to you about the torus drive. 352 five  eight  five 77 six two.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: uncle ned on November 21, 2021, 10:08:09 AM

olebusman


Sorry for being so slow about getting you pictures.

Hope you can get some idea of how Huggy has her fan driven.

Took a lot of experimenting and plenty of money and time to get right.

good luck with your work.

uncle ned
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on November 21, 2021, 10:32:30 AM
you can actually put a torus drive on the 4104 6-71. We did that years ago. Took it off an old look city bus. didn't use that long extension like 8v-71.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on November 29, 2021, 07:46:23 AM
RJ did you forget me? I haven't heard back from Luke either. Sure want to get a torus assy to end this problem
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on December 06, 2021, 09:41:44 AM
Well, I guess nobody on the board has a torus assy. Anybody have any suggestions on where to look
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on December 06, 2021, 09:56:59 AM
did you get in touch with Luke?
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: Van on December 06, 2021, 10:33:12 AM
Have you tryed Tal Cook? https://www.houseofrust.net/?fbclid=IwAR0fxICoiv-eX5QfCZf69dc_oElFeqs7-Xk5x7M1GCTKO_W9SiKQFY-XYiQ
Or Greg? @ Goodson's  828-428-4102
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on December 08, 2021, 08:15:13 AM
chessie4905, I've talked to Luke 3 times with no call back. I must have made him mad about something. Van, I sent a message to Tal Cook  House of rust. Still waiting for a reply.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on December 08, 2021, 10:26:49 AM
Van. I called Goodsons which sent me to Cardinal coach which sent me to Bell Town Recycling. So far no luck. Still waiting for a reply from Tal Cook
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: 6805eagleguy on December 08, 2021, 03:27:57 PM
Lol tal cook is quite the fellow. Somehow he's mad at me right now, cause I was pricing out radiators, and didn't want his. And now he's mad at me
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on December 29, 2021, 11:54:06 AM
since you have the 6v92, the torus will probably be run in full lock up all the time. lockup is not the correct term, but with higher output engines, most have bypassed the Vernatherm and plumbed the oil lines together. Maybe you could post a few pictures of what your current setup looks like. Is the main casting off the block including the oil filter also like 8v71's?
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on December 30, 2021, 07:32:19 PM
Been thinking about your dilemma some more. Since you are in Florida, I would see if you can remove all the rubber cushion, clean those surfaces by sand or glass media blasting, and contacting one or more urethane molding companies in Florida and see if one can inject molten urethane into the former cavity. Trim it up and should work fine. The critical part would be getting the inner part exactly centered. Or maybe see if one of them would be interested before you remove the rubber part.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on December 31, 2021, 05:15:33 AM
The guys on the 4106 FB  page should have one ? have you asked there
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: luvrbus on December 31, 2021, 07:12:19 AM
Have someone that does F/B instant message Maci-Dub he has one I know because he took it from a engine here.I have one somebody took a part you can have but it been in the weather out side and I know the fan drive hub is missing lol unless it is laying around some where
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on December 31, 2021, 04:45:37 PM
chessie, I think it would be almost impossible to do. It would have to be exactly centered and perfectly straight with no wobble. If it wasn't straight it would be flexing the rubber center every rev. I won't get on fb but I'm having my wife join the 4106 group. Maybe something will come of it. No, the oil filter housing is a separate adapter bolting on to the oil pump housing just below the fan drive housing. The oil filter housing has to come off to remove the bottom two nuts of the fan housing to oil pump housing bolts. I just had it all apart again . I should have done the picture thing but didn't even think about it.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 01, 2022, 05:23:28 AM
I have the fan blade off mine now. I'll  provide some images of my end part to see if it would work.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 02, 2022, 03:14:10 PM
here:

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 02, 2022, 03:15:05 PM
here:
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 02, 2022, 03:16:29 PM
here:

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 02, 2022, 03:27:35 PM
here:

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 02, 2022, 03:28:38 PM
here:

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: olebusman on January 03, 2022, 01:30:24 PM
 No chessie, that don't look anything mine. On another note, does anyone know if the crank on the front is the same diameter on the 8v71 and the 6v92. I know the rear is different but don't know about the front. I might be going wrong if the torus assy won't fit
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 03, 2022, 05:02:15 PM
Well, they used a torus on 8V-71's and 6V-92's. Front of block where mounted may be different.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: fortyniner on January 07, 2022, 03:40:51 PM
McMasterCarr has two part urethane casting compounds of various durometer ratings. Pretty tough stuff.

Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: windtrader on January 08, 2022, 12:41:55 AM
Just curious - where would the urethane casting compound be used on this part? Are you suggesting that the steel part could be cast using this stuff?
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: chessie4905 on January 08, 2022, 11:00:52 AM
you use the urethane compound in place of the rubber. Would need to make up a jig to get inner part perfectly centered. I think the heated stuff may work better. Also need to clean and sand ar bead blast surfaces prior.
Title: Re: Fan drive
Post by: windtrader on January 08, 2022, 11:04:36 AM
Got it. Now the durometer makes sense. Learn everyday!