I had planned to replace the driver's seat on my J4500 eventually, but now it looks like I need to do it sooner rather than later. This leads to a couple questions:
1. What seats have you found that you like?
2. What is the best place to buy new seats?
3. Are there sources of reliable used seats?
Kevin -
What's wrong with the factory seat?
Bostrom is the big player in the 18-wheeler market.
American, Isringhausen, National, Recaro and USSC are the major players in the bus world.
All of the above have websites, you can source a local supplier via their "locator" options.
An 18-wheeler wrecking yard can be a source of used Bostroms.
National used to be the OEM supplier to GMC and MCI (at least thru the MC-9s.) Don't know who they're using for the Js.
Isri's are very common in Prevost motorhome shells.
Recaros have extremely comfortable backrests, with excellent lumbar support. However, some of the cushions in their older models tend to be thinner than others, thus leading to one becoming "saddle sore."
High-backs are more comfortable "for the long haul" compared to low-back models.
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
Our 4104's oem National driver's seat is still in it 42 years later. It's nothing special to look at but the extreme comfort on extended drives tells the whole story...
Call Sam Caylor if it is like the one I replaced for the school the driver caught fire while smoking that was a $4500.00 seat not many truck seats if any will work with the dash design in a J4500
QuoteWhat's wrong with the factory seat?
First, the air line cracked. So, we pulled the seat cushion off to get to the air line and everything we touched inside the mechanicals (trying to get to the air line) just fell apart. Knob mounts broke, clips cracked, cables broke, the entire air line is brittle (Every time we tried to clamp it, it cracked again.). I already knew none of the controls worked and the cushions were bad (which is why I had planned to replace it later in the process.) But now, I'm not even sure I can get the cushion to stay attached because the mounting clips broke. So, I think the safe thing for driving in the short term is just to go ahead and replace it now.
Maybe you could rebuild it with all new soft parts?
Jim
So Mrs. Lincoln other than that how was the play? LOL :^
you could redo all the guts with all new stuff for a fraction of the price of a new one , air line is cheap . this way you know everything will fit . ask a upholstery place if they can redo the bits and you re-install them .
I had to do this on the coach even though I bought the seats brand new at a rv surplus outlet .
they were to soft for my liking
dave
I looked into getting the parts to rebuild. I think I can get them all, but while they may have anticipated someone replacing a part or two, they didn't intend for an untrained person to rebuild the entire seat. The parts diagram is an absurdity which could only have been dreamed up by Rube Goldberg himself. By the time I buy all the parts and find/pay someone who could actually do it, I'm probably not going to save much.
I have also discovered that, if you want to spend enough money, you can get a seat that will do just about everything but cook you breakfast...
Kevin, I don't know what part of Dallas you're in. You might talk with Brunner Trim and Glass on Garland Road, not far from White Rock Lake. I took my car to Butch on the recommendation of my car dealer. Straight forward and old school. They could certainly do any upholstery, and might be able to take care of the seat mechanics too -- I don't know that for sure though.
Another option might be Darby Diesel in Hutchins. Mike Darby, a former DART mechanic owns it. I know he's scrapped some MCI's over the years, he might have one in progress.
Arthur
I bought a used Bostrom air ride seat from truck salvage yard. Bostrom sells a FRED kit. New upholstery, New foam and armrests ( extra cost) I bought a piece of steel to adapt it to my floor holes. 3 line up perfectly. The 4 hole on Bostrom seat requires a hole where angle framing is, so stud attached to plate for 4th hole. Air line through un- used factory hole to air supply in under driver's compartment.
Bostrom kit is available in 4 or 5 colors.
There are also a lot of Flexsteel RV units that are 8 way electric to choose from..>>>Dan
Is there a step, hard up against the rear of the seat mount?
Can't remember...
In all of the earlier models, that step can render some lovely air ride seats useless, it conflicts with the seat, or the mount ends up too far forward.
Primary reason an mci seat won't go any lower.
In the Dallas market, find out where the bus companies are having their seats re-built. Someone is doing it by the dozens.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
LOL I may be dreaming but I recall the seat was off set on the frame not the pedestal
Thanks for all the ideas...
Yes, there is a step-up behind the seat, but it is shallow (2.5" w/ the subfloor). The base is up against it, but the seat goes back past it. (I kept that step in place when I raised the front floor level.). Worst case scenario is that I can build a steel base that notches up over the step to set the seat base back a little farther.
Another question: For our purposes (not driving all day, every day,) is the "air ride" that big of a deal? I can get a power adjustable seat with all the adjustable lumbar support, etc. without using the air. It seem that moving to an "air ride" seat boosts the price a good bit.
Sure helps when you hit one of those potholes.
Quote from: ktmossman on August 24, 2021, 07:42:32 AM
Another question: For our purposes (not driving all day, every day,) is the "air ride" that big of a deal? I can get a power adjustable seat with all the adjustable lumbar support, etc. without using the air. It seem that moving to an "air ride" seat boosts the price a good bit.
Personally, I don't get all the hoopla over the driver seat. The bus I have came with a standard issue seat but it is not comfortable for me. Maybe it is not positioned for my liking but in general, I find the bus rides like a dream, floating on an air suspension.
Maybe the old trucks had suspensions that did not absorb the road as well but at least I don't drive anywhere near 10 hours a day in my bus. I try to limit each leg to 3 hours unless really needing to get somewhere on a timeline.
On my list is to swap the driver seat for a seat from a passenger car that will suit my comfort needs better. Probably going to grab a clean one from the local pick and pull when the next sale runs for $25 to give it a try.
I drove a "J" on Looooong multi-week tours for a year or two and I flat didn't like the air seat at all.
The biggest thing was how high it would rise to get the travel needed to absorb road shocks. If it
didn't rise high enough it would violently slam me down and bottom out with a huge shock to my
back, Real Nasty. This is one of the really hard parts to overcome in any air-ride seat design, the
sudden stop at the bottom when it runs out of travel. This is on ALL air-seats and I deal with it
all the time on every bus I drive equipped with them. It's tricky to get them adjusted right for the
various road conditions.
I found myself feeling like I was almost standing up and my legs were extended so much only my toes could reach the pedals. The wheel was in my lap, and every time the seat moved, even a little, my foot would move the throttle and affect the smoothness of the ride I pride myself on giving. It
even affected things when I was braking. this was totally unacceptable to me.
I ended up just lowering the seat all the way so it rested on the shelf it was mounted to, on the "J".
I lucked out that the seat position worked out perfectly for my legs and arm positions so I felt very
comfortable driving that way. From then on my pedal and steering wheel geometry never varied and
I was always in total control as the bus suspension absorbed the shocks just fine. I never again
suffered the rude spinal shock of the seat slamming down so hard and it was extremely comfortable
for me as I drove usually for about 8-10 hours a day. I have a real love hate relationship with air-ride seats in general. I love them when they work well, and I hate them when they hurt me more than I would be without one. Go figure.
No need for an air seat.
I ride them "on the floor" for the most part.
And air ride seat requires some leg use, similar to riding a horse, if it goes up, you use your legs to prevent the going down and hitting the bottom.
Pain in the a$$, one way or the other.
I miss a good old pedestal seat.
Power seats from luxury cars were a popular re-fit for busnuts in days gone by.
Built in seat/shoulder belts from a gm suv product from a few years back was said to work?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
The only air seat I've ever ridden is the one on the morning after eating baked beans nite before! :^ Automatic warmer too!
I had an air ride seat in our Coachmen RV but that was a bread truck so I don't expect it is at all the same.
Jim
Kevin -
My MCI had the optional hi-back National pedestal seat, and, once you got it adjusted properly, was extremely comfortable to drive for hours - as long as you took a break every 3-4 hours, just to get up and walk around a bit.
My Prevost has an Isringhausen low-back air-ride seat that, altho the backrest is comfortable, I miss the shoulder support of the hi-back National.
I don't know what model this Isi seat is, but I discovered that there's a "hidden" lever on the LR that after you sit down and the seat adjusts itself to your weight, if you pull the lever forward, it "locks" out the air ride, so it becomes more like the pedestal seats. After owning the coach almost three years now, I have mixed feelings. Sometimes I like the air ride, other times I prefer it locked out. The air ride is nice on the super slab, but locked out is better around town and on the little blue highways.
I agree with Buswarrior about possibly getting a seat from Sam Caylor, but you know the odds buying used. Sam's number, btw, is 785-878-3405.
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
In my 5C, I replaced the seat with a Sears Seating Legacy II air seat I got from a trucker. Like new, leather, infinitely adjustable, heat, massage, etc. Love it. But I am used to air seats from driving trucks. You don't need an air seat in an air ride bus, but it sure is nice... for me anyway. A good quality seat can be adjusted so it doesn't bottom out, and is not all the way up either.
I think the proper positioning is most important. Seems like other comments suggest the same. The seat has adjustments but is not adjustable to get it where it feels comfortable. Maybe, I'll do some adjusting of the slider and pedestal supports to get it closer first
The way the newer stuff is made with power adjustable seat,throttle,brakes pedals ,steering wheel and mirrors it is hard not to get comfortable, my RV gets to comfortable for me with the cruise control on
Quote from: windtrader on August 25, 2021, 11:07:32 AM
I think the proper positioning is most important.
Don -Ergonomically, the proper seating position for a coach should be a vertical line from your ear, thru your shoulder to your pelvis. Your thighs should be at a right angle to your shoulder to pelvis vertical line. Your feet should be flat on the floor with your calves at a 90º angle to your thighs. You should be close enough to the dash that your right foot shouldn't be more than a 30º angle or so away from vertical when on the throttle or brake.
When situated this way, it offers the best back support and is the least fatiguing while driving.
(-- left over from my days as a driver trainer --)
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
Cliff, put it on cruise and go back and take a nap. Seat comfort is great but having to drive into late afternoon sun for hours sucks.
Quote from: RJ on August 25, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Don -
Ergonomically, the proper seating position for a coach should be a vertical line from your ear, thru your shoulder to your pelvis. Your thighs should be at a right angle to your shoulder to pelvis vertical line. Your feet should be flat on the floor with your calves at a 90º angle to your thighs. You should be close enough to the dash that your right foot shouldn't be more than a 30º angle or so away from vertical when on the throttle or brake.
When situated this way, it offers the best back support and is the least fatiguing while driving.
(-- left over from my days as a driver trainer --)
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
RJ my posture is so screwed up if I tried to orientated myself as you described I'd probably fracture something! Lol
Quote from: RJ on August 25, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Don -
Ergonomically, the proper seating position for a coach should be a vertical line from your ear, thru your shoulder to your pelvis. Your thighs should be at a right angle to your shoulder to pelvis vertical line. Your feet should be flat on the floor with your calves at a 90º angle to your thighs. You should be close enough to the dash that your right foot shouldn't be more than a 30º angle or so away from vertical when on the throttle or brake.
When situated this way, it offers the best back support and is the least fatiguing while driving.
(-- left over from my days as a driver trainer --)
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
I wish they had shorter (5' 2") drivers in mind when designing the OEM seats if this is the recommended posture. Sounds like a reasonable way to sit, but for me to do that I'd be holding the steering wheel at shoulder height and not seeing much of the road.
My accommodations have been a block on the throttle and a carpeted lift block for putting under my left foot when it's not clutching.
those recommended positions go out the window when old.
We have the original MCI air ride National seat and it is comfy. We also have two Wide ride air Bostrums that we hate. No matter where you put them they are just not comfy at all.
My buddy Pops (Popcorn)sat down in ours and said just like I never got out of my coach I used to drive in California up and down the coast. He said he used to fill it up 1/2 way and that was it. to high to hard and to low you would bust your butt. He is right... :^
Maybe the shock absorber is worn out or maybe a different one.
They were brand new and came with the bus never installed before. It is not the air ride part it is the seats they just don't feel comfortable even when stopped. Flexsteel I have sat in feel good when stationary but don't when moving and also don't last.
my dad put a few hundred thousand miles on his 04. I mentioned getting a better seat for it. He said he wasn't changing the seat. He could drive 10 to 12 hours sitting in it without any back issues. I understood what he meant after I started driving it. They aren't pretty, but do the job. Had it recovered and added a black heavy duty fabric to seat and back area though.
I have to agree with the comfort of the OEM National Seats put in all GMC Coaches. I've got
untold years in all GMC's and I'll say categorically they are the most comfortable seats ever. I started on 4104's and ended in 4905's and even the MCI's 7,8,9's with them were still extremely comfortable. Like your Pop I drove them for 8 or more hours a day for days on end and never had issues. I got out of the bus at the end of the day feeling good and hardly fatigued or sore at all. I was younger then.... but that's another story.
Even today I find them still good solid and comfortable. One possible age related issue I've noticed with some is that the seat cushions seem to be hardening with age lacking the slight give as they hit bumps, and could probably use a good replacement foam cushion. Then again it could just be my butt, hard to tell. Still very good seats, in an air ride bus, NOT so much on a sprung Crown driving around on the disastrous roads and freeways here in Kalifornia, THAT isn't any fun and definitely requires an air ride seat, which I thankfully have in my two Crowns. Makes it tolerable. On the open road and a blacktopped smooth road nothing compares with the Crown handling, and ride, except maybe the Scenicruiser I owned and ran in service, THAT was the best bus ever made. Period. Truly awesome.
It's all such a personal preference thing that there isn't any truly correct and best solution, it's up to the individual and his bus, and it may require several attempts to find the one that works best. All part of the total Journey, and experience. But we all know that, Right??
I have a Villia seat it is very comfortable and the brake and throttle you can adjust with a button to your pleasure it makes it too easy and comfortable IMO and I don't care much for all the controls on the steering wheel either
I got seats custom made. Although functionally a proper truck seat and/or Recaro seat makes more sense, I found that the mileage I aim to do even full timing could pander more to style. My seats are luxury RV specific made to my colour and trim requirements at Shop4Seats out of California.
My seats have a massage function too, because I'm
Flash!