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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Sebulba on June 22, 2021, 04:07:39 AM

Title: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Sebulba on June 22, 2021, 04:07:39 AM
Hello,

Continuing my search for a D3 and I noticed that there is an 11.1 CI and a 12.7 CI Series 60 engine.

Any opinions on them.  Are they equally reliable, engineering, etc., or is one of them to be avoided?

Thanks a million

Seb
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: thomasinnv on June 22, 2021, 05:06:56 AM
Both are great engines. I have had both in a 45' DL3. For a 40 footer an 11.1 would be fine if you find a bus that you just really can't pass up, otherwise look for the 12.7 it's a much nicer driving experience. Try to get a pre egr engine. The 11.1 is usually up to around 350hp and 1150 tq, there were a few reflashed to 365 and 1250tq i believe. The 12.7 can be up to 470hp and 1550 tq with a factory flash, or higher if you find someone who is willing to tinker with it for you. Most coaches with 11.1 would have shipped with it set at 330/350 and the 12.7 anywhere from 370 to 430. Fuel mileage is going to be similar on both engines. I picked up about 1mpg when I swapped the 11.1 out with the 12.7.

Just my two cents, do with it what you will.
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: DoubleEagle on June 22, 2021, 05:53:13 AM
12.7L, one of the best engines of all time, up there with the CAT 3406. Have the bull gear bearing play checked.
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: luvrbus on June 22, 2021, 06:13:00 AM
Both are good engines ,the early 12.7 had a problems with the bull gear around 600,000 miles and  with the center bore  (liners)would sink and they would have a lot of blow by and exhaust into the radiator  check for a gray color in the coolant   
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: belfert on June 22, 2021, 06:51:02 AM
The local Detroit dealer was able to re-flash my 11.1 to 400 HP.  I never noticed any change after that was done compared to the 350 HP it came with.

I would much prefer a 12.7 from just before EGR.
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: luvrbus on June 22, 2021, 06:56:56 AM
Higher hp setting does not always change the torque setting like they say HP starts you rolling and torque keeps you rolling
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: chessie4905 on June 22, 2021, 08:31:17 AM
just find one with the 12.7. Eliminates woulda, coulda, shoulda, later.
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: 6805eagleguy on June 22, 2021, 10:46:43 AM
Get a pre 2000 12.7L with no egr. Mine is 430hp 1600 tq. Series 60s are absolute torque monsters

We have a 11.1 L in a crane factory set at 300 hp, 1800tq🙂
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: luvrbus on June 22, 2021, 10:51:59 AM
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on June 22, 2021, 10:46:43 AM
Get a pre 2000 12.7L with no egr. Mine is 430hp 1600 tq. Series 60s are absolute torque monsters

We have a 11.1 L in a crane factory set at 300 hp, 1800tq🙂

I am at 2050 ft lbs steep grades mean nothing to it
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Sebulba on June 22, 2021, 11:18:24 AM
Quote from: thomasinnv on June 22, 2021, 05:06:56 AM
Both are great engines. I have had both in a 45' DL3. For a 40 footer an 11.1 would be fine if you find a bus that you just really can't pass up, otherwise look for the 12.7 it's a much nicer driving experience. Try to get a pre egr engine. The 11.1 is usually up to around 350hp and 1150 tq, there were a few reflashed to 365 and 1250tq i believe. The 12.7 can be up to 470hp and 1550 tq with a factory flash, or higher if you find someone who is willing to tinker with it for you. Most coaches with 11.1 would have shipped with it set at 330/350 and the 12.7 anywhere from 370 to 430. Fuel mileage is going to be similar on both engines. I picked up about 1mpg when I swapped the 11.1 out with the 12.7.

Just my two cents, do with it what you will.

Great, thanks, this is what I was looking for.

Thanks

Seb
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Sebulba on June 22, 2021, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: DoubleEagle on June 22, 2021, 05:53:13 AM
12.7L, one of the best engines of all time, up there with the CAT 3406. Have the bull gear bearing play checked.

Thanks

Seb
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Sebulba on June 22, 2021, 11:25:09 AM
To everyone who responded, thank you.

I'm guessing that anything older than 2000 is pre EGR?

Seb

Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: sledhead on June 22, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
2003 was the 1st year for the start of emission crap

dave
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Glennman on June 22, 2021, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: sledhead on June 22, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
2003 was the 1st year for the start of emission crap

So it looks like I lucked out with my 12.7 being 2002 (no EGR crap)? I've found a date of manufacture to be August of 2001.
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: 6805eagleguy on June 22, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
I thought it 2000 . Maybe I am wrong. My engine is a dec '99 manufacture date!
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: thomasinnv on June 23, 2021, 05:48:47 AM
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on June 22, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
I thought it 2000 . Maybe I am wrong. My engine is a dec '99 manufacture date!

My transplant engine came out of a 2002 and it is non egr. It was however a multiplex bus and mine is not so I did have to reprogram some parameters in the DDEC.
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: TomC on June 23, 2021, 08:48:31 AM
2,050 torque is great-only problem is it is a Cummins (LOL). Especially Good Luck with that, TomC
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Sebulba on June 23, 2021, 12:17:19 PM
Quote from: sledhead on June 22, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
2003 was the 1st year for the start of emission crap

dave

Gotcha, thanks

Seb
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: luvrbus on June 24, 2021, 07:26:49 AM
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on June 22, 2021, 05:35:46 PM
I thought it 2000 . Maybe I am wrong. My engine is a dec '99 manufacture date!

Mid 2000  on will be EGR
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Glennman on June 25, 2021, 12:16:08 PM
How does a person know if he has an EGR? What does one look like? I was under the impression that my 2002 doesn't have one, but now I'm not too certain. Thanks!
Title: Re: Series 60 -- 11.0 or 12.7 any opinions?
Post by: Sebulba on June 26, 2021, 04:44:33 AM
Quote from: Glennman on June 25, 2021, 12:16:08 PM
How does a person know if he has an EGR? What does one look like? I was under the impression that my 2002 doesn't have one, but now I'm not too certain. Thanks!

Yeah,  it would be good just know what to look for to know.

Thanks Glenman,

Seb