I've been wondering what attracts people to yellow school buses to convert rather than OTR buses. A skoolie may be cheaper to buy but in the grand scheme once all the pile of receipts are added up, it doesn't seem the initial buy in makes much difference.
Does the old yellow bus stir up more memories than a Greyhound ride? Surely, many more folks have memories taking trips on school buses.
Is just the retro-hippy nostalgia that points them that way?
How many people do enough research to look beyond a skoolie and discover that OTR are conversion options too?
Just curious
The people I talk to say cost and they have had a better maintaince program , parts are off the self from any truck parts not like hiway buses you pay $29.00 ea for wheel studs they pay about $6.00 ea plus they are low mileage and don't have millions of miles .Some wish they had more storage.Those people on the average sure build beautiful interiors on school buses every inch of space is used and has a purpose lol and they don't use KOA or any other parks they prefer living off grid ,another plus is fuel mileage since they have smaller modern engines
They are just as happy as we are in our buses.
Bluebird makes a fine bus and RV too!
Scoolies have better ground clearance for boondocking.
Quote from: silversport on April 17, 2021, 08:35:29 PM
Scoolies have better ground clearance for boondocking.
Sure do
I'd agree from the images of converted school buses, the creative types definitely seem to be attracted that way. Seems like most OTR bus nuts want to follow luxury large commercial conversions. From what I've seen many bus conversions have very similar floorplans while school bus converters choose from a much broader inventory of materials and many of them have unique layouts as well.
I think that there's a huge difference in complexity between an OTR coach and a school bus as well, making a school bus much more attractive to a DIY owner.
I'd seriously consider getting an older dual rear axle Crown for a project. They have lots going for them, including being able to get under without worries about air suspension failure (no blocking) and a much better setup for driving on dirt roads or grass.
What Richard said of schoolies also fits the profile for the GM Silversides as far as increased ground clearance & steel leaf springs in comparison to our air ride inter city 4104 & Buffalo.
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 18, 2021, 07:26:55 AM
What Richard said of schoolies also fits the profile for the GM Silversides as far as increased ground clearance & steel leaf springs in comparison to our air ride inter city 4104 & Buffalo.
I thought of that Dan, but two big advantages to a Crown - much newer and easier to get parts for, and the option of a twin screw drive axle setup which would be helpful for increased gription.
My guestimation is that a Crown could be made to look pretty retro without much effort with just a bit of fluted aluminum along the sides.
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 18, 2021, 07:26:55 AM
What Richard said of schoolies also fits the profile for the GM Silversides as far as increased ground clearance & steel leaf springs in comparison to our air ride inter city 4104 & Buffalo.
The school buses these people are converting are air rides ,school buses have used air ride since the 60's some had leaf springs .lol I owned a Blue Bird Wonder Lodge with leaf spring it was so rough riding my wife said it would shake the bed sheets off the bed ,even the Crowns went to air bags
I think it is the lower initial cost and the availability of many different wheelbases that attract the DIYselfers to school buses rather than OTR rigs. I don't know about the OTR crowd but I'm convinced that 9 out of ten skoolies have no idea what makes their bus's wheels go around or what to do if they don't. As a skoolie myself I know that I am a kettle calling the pot black when I say that most of the DIY skoolie conversions scare me to death. Many skoolie owners have great imaginations but poor abilities when it comes to safely carrying out their builds.
I'm afraid I've taken this thread down the wrong path. I'd have to agree with lostagain when he pointed out that skoolie owners are "just as happy as we are in our buses" and I guess that should be the point. Jack
Quote from: oltrunt on April 18, 2021, 09:24:50 AM
I think it is the lower initial cost and the availability of many different wheelbases that attract the DIYselfers to school buses rather than OTR rigs. I don't know about the OTR crowd but I'm convinced that 9 out of ten skoolies have no idea what makes their bus's wheels go around or what to do if they don't. As a skoolie myself I know that I am a kettle calling the pot black when I say that most of the DIY skoolie conversions scare me to death. Many skoolie owners have great imaginations but poor abilities when it comes to safely carrying out their builds.
I'm afraid I've taken this thread down the wrong path. I'd have to agree with lostagain when he pointed out that skoolie owners are "just as happy as we are in our buses" and I guess that should be the point. Jack
LOL I you looked at some of the OTR converted buses people drive down the road Jack some of those scare the hell out of me
OTR- bigger canvas for bigger ideas . We did a transit then a schoolie and 15 years later we have an MC9. That being said I have 16 lithium batteries going below deck and 400 gallons of water . Neither previous vehicle could dream of either of those with room to spare . My nine floats down the interstate effortlessly and sings a pleasant tune, give it a few years and all those skoolie folks will seek more space and flexibility that the big yellow bananas cannot provide !
In we being in BLM land right now and having to watch out for rocks along in our MC5 I would think the Schoolie clearance is what they have the advantage on us. They also like free camping and most RV parks don't want them in. We have had three RV parks turn ours down just for the year without even seeing it. Most we send a picture to and they say come ahead. It only happened in Arizona so far. We are doing great though on free land with 1500W of solar and 8 ,6 volt AGM's and 4024 hybrid Magnum inverter.
Life is good. :^
Watched a Red tail hawk grab a scorpion and fly off.
Quote from: Eric on April 18, 2021, 10:38:50 AM
OTR- bigger canvas for bigger ideas . We did a transit then a schoolie and 15 years later we have an MC9. That being said I have 16 lithium batteries going below deck and 400 gallons of water . Neither previous vehicle could dream of either of those with room to spare . My nine floats down the interstate effortlessly and sings a pleasant tune, give it a few years and all those skoolie folks will seek more space and flexibility that the big yellow bananas cannot provide !
That is a lot of weight in bay rated for 1200 lbs lol they don't do that to new Prevosts
Where's Gary?
I posted on BCM figuring there might be some yellow bus fans and thought he might even cater to that crowd with another site or some sort of cross-over.
If someone was had a priority of going off road with a bus converted to off grid living, then that crew is likely in these rigs https://rvshare.com/blog/best-off-road-rvs-and-campers/
Our great Alaskan next door neighbor's best friends - a husband & wife team just finished building a rig like the one Don posted. The truck is a large 4×4 flatbed and they designed the house box for rugged travel. They well named it the "Farther". It's an awesome rig extremely well insulated and suited for extensive remote travel.
I'm not your typical skoolie owner, at least I don't think I am. There are a number of reasons I chose a school bus. I think number one is original purchase price and cost of maintenance. I have a 1991 Bluebird All American rear engine. While I don't have as much storage as a coach has I do have quite a bit. One of the first comments I get from visitors, even some coach owners is "It's so big inside" not sure why, maybe just the layout.
Everything is designed and built by me. I'm kind of a "I don't really need it but, I want to see if I can build it just as good and cheaper than just buying it" guy. I have dual mini split AC, hot water in floor radiant heat, 828Ah lithium batteries, 1530 watts of solar. I can run one ac all night off of the batteries. My awnings, one on each side, are electric and can be controlled by my phone. Everything is electric, no propane. Much of the later interior woodwork is walnut from my property, cut and processed by me.
I have spring suspension that rides as good as or better than some air ride coaches I have been in. It is old enough that the engine is mechanical. I can do all of the maintenance myself. Since it isn't as "pretty" as a coach I'm not limited by what I can or can't add to the outside.
As for costs, EVERYTHING, including purchase price, fuel, insurance, registration, camping fees, dues and registration is under $50,000. Fuel cost per mile is $0.36, conversion cost per mile is $1.73. Total solar cost panels, lith batteries, inverter, wires etc is $6,152.23.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125179929_7288fca265_o.jpg)
Walnut speaker grill.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/882/41622569731_387fc5298a_o.jpg)
Even with your dedication and effort,, unfortunatly it still has that "schooly" stigma that's hard to shake off..>>>Dan
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on April 19, 2021, 06:21:37 AM
Even with your dedication and effort,, unfortunatly it still has that "schooly" stigma that's hard to shake off..>>>Dan
Not really I saw a blue bird school bus a guy in Pahrump smooth sided his and it looked like Wonder Lodge he welded square tubing to the body and covered it look sharp with siding and baggage bays he made
Dick (somewhereinusa) has a fine Bluebird and his ingenuity is second to none IMO besides he's one of the few busnuts that will still be in another chair in the wee hours of the morning when just hot embers in the camp fire are still emitting a little heat... :^
Gary's help Sandra has a nice schoolie ,it is a close nit group they have a huge gathering in the Az desert every year and all chip in to help others convert a school bus free of charge without all the pissing contests
I bought a Bluebird bodied I-H conventional back in about '92 and although I considered converting it, what I mostly set it up for was a mobile workshop before eventually selling it a few years down the road. It had the gasoline 345 engine and manual transmission, drove and rode reasonably well. Being pretty familiar with that, when the time came to seriously consider a bus for conversion the limitations were clear.
First, head height. Being 6'2" tall that was always a consideration and was the reason for choosing the Bluebird, that and the purchase price. At that time I could buy that bus in pretty fair condition for $1000 out the door. I would have liked a pusher but at twice the money it wasn't happening. So the Bird was tall enough but not much more. If I wore my Stetson inside it would sometimes touch. No room for extra insulation and it was a pretty safe bet there wasn't any already there. At the time that I first started looking for a conversion platform most everything needed a roof raise or was too expensive. A complication that put off the project for probably 10-15 years.
The second big consideration was storage. Having recently owned a S&S I now understood those limitations as well and there was simply no way a Schoolie was ever going to approach the capacity of an OTR bus, even if you added racks. Going that route also meant fabricating bay doors, not at all a simple task, or cheap.
And by this point we were almost comparing apples to apples. Bring that $1000 in '92 up to date, add the premium for the pusher, and how far below the $5000 I paid for my '96 102DL3 would it be? My guess is, not enough to spit at. So from my point of view all the advantages had shifted to the OTR bus.
But people want what they want. And if they don't take the time to understand what they are doing, invariably they DO what they want. So you have Skoolie conversions. No doubt there are a few advantages, that has to be just because they are different. I've gone in school buses over roads and not roads into places that an OTR could never begin to consider going and that is a very distinct advantage. They are simpler creatures and as such more closely match the demographic that grew up with tent camping. Go from a tent to a skoolie and you are in heaven, quite literally. Even if all you did was pull the seats.
Jim
Back in days of when Bus'N USA was around I got a little pissed about the way school bus owners were treated,there was a woman that drove all the way from Texas to Or to attend she had a nice conversion on the inside solid wood. First they made April park in the field away from buses which to me was wrong since she paid the same as I did,second deal that got to me they had a flea market and guy was selling some roof mount AC units (take off). April offered to buy the units and the guy told her no. My wife was standing there and it set her off and bought the units for her then told the guy how she really felt.There no excuse for actions like that because people have different ideas so I have a soft spot for those people even today because of that ordeal .We stay in touch with April she retired from Dell and tours the country in a 2010 Prevost now but says she still has her school bus
Even though OTR busnuts do flock together it does seem the stereotype and reality that skollie folks feel a greater sense of community and camaraderie as shown with an occasional let's gather for a "barn building" bus project.
"Fuel cost per mile is $0.36, conversion cost per mile is $1.73."
Just curious what you are trying to say here.
The yellow school bus stigma is real for sure, so camping in commercial campgrounds will be more challenging for sure.
Your facing the camp ground issue with otr buses ask Dave C and he has a nice bus ,they are getting hard nose about it around here ,state,county,city and federal parks don't seem to care how old or what type all they ask is what type MH ,trailer or tent around here the few that abuse the Walmart overnight parking are causing problems for the nice guys both of our Walmarts have gone to no overnight parking now.DaveC told me Texas is passing laws where one cannot over night in any parking I haven't found the article yet that would suck
Not a law YET but here is the Bill. >:(
https://drivinvibin.com/2021/04/15/proposed-texas-senate-bill-criminalizes-rv-parking-overnight/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=proposed-texas-senate-bill-criminalizes-rv-parking-overnight
We have been turned down they said because of year and they said it wasn't because it was a bus, but we wondered. We asked if they needed a picture and told them it was shiny. They said it didn't matter the owner didn't want anything later than Ten years.
Crossroads right across the street said come on ahead we don't care and it was one of AZ nice rv parks. Very clean and quite. A little tough to get into the spaces because they put the power pole in the middle of the pull through spots and a concrete pad at the other end. You had to go in at an angle and then back up while turning the other way. But manageable. Wendy the manager was very friendly.
Out in BLM for a few more days and there is lots of it here. This morning we were out in the wash using our wrist rockets and setting up targets with our music going in the bus so we could hear it outside. Our cats were watching us out the windows. No one around for miles. We watch the sun go down every night and come up each morning, Life is good.
Schoolies are cool and have seen a few with really neat designs and very creative and yes it seems like the schoolie people aren't as chesty as some OTR people we have met. They all seem to get along nicely.
And we met Dick with his BB and it is a very nice Bus and he is a very knowlegable guy. :^
I'd most of it is upfront cost. But the truth is, and I tell people this, the cheapest way to get into a bus RV is to buy someone else's dead dream. Saw some where recently a $60k Prevost h3 with slides, owner started on it years ago, lost interest or whatever and was dumping it. pretty much a blank canvas with all the hard work done (slides, electrical, water / utilities, etc).
School buses are going for $3k or so? It's about what I paid for my MC9 shell. Sure it was lacking some maintenance items, but I know the frame wouldn't rot out on me.
The upfront cost is such a small part of the build, you see these beautiful conversions on Instagram or whatever and all shiplap / pallet wood interiors. What no one ever mentions is most don't go more than 55 mph, they ride rough, have a low ceiling and don't have much storage. Sure you can add storage and raise the roof, but now you're getting closer to an OTR in features and in initial cost. However you still only go 55 and it still rides like a dump truck. No offense somewhereinusa, I'm sure yours rides nicely I'm painting with a broad brush here.
I still remember when I told people we bought a bus to convert, they all assumed it was a school bus. Then when they found out it was an old Greyhound they figured it was because it already had a bathroom. Wrong again.
I do wish I had a control nob for ride height, I'd like to adjust it from time to time. I lost stuffing this 34,000 lb beast in tiny campsites down dusty dirt roads. I don't mind if our paint get scratched a bit, it all buffs out. I love the BLM land and boondocking for weeks, but I also like a nice ride in comfort and style.
It's like someone else said, both groups are happy, and that's what really matters.
Quote from: richard5933 on April 18, 2021, 04:34:47 AM
I'd seriously consider getting an older dual rear axle Crown for a project. They have lots going for them, including being able to get under without worries about air suspension failure (no blocking) and a much better setup for driving on dirt roads or grass.
Richard -A tandem Crown, like you mentioned, has some of the things you're thinking about, but they also have a few negatives.
99% are mid-engined, either a Cummins or a Detroit. Light duty maintenance is easy, but anything major requires a hoist to drop the engine/transmission.
Being mid-engined, their ground clearance isn't much better than an OTR coach, and driver's have to be especially careful because high-centering severely damages the engine.
Being mid-engined, they have virtually no under-floor storage space.
They have a huge trunk, but the frame rails end just behind the rear axle, so there's no structural support for a heavy-duty hitch w/o major welding. The trunk is specifically designed as a "crush-zone" in case of a rear end accident.
But none of these issues are insurmountable. Donna Marvel and her husband have a fabulous 35' Crown conversion, they've ingeniously overcome the mid-engine issues to create their dream RV.
That being said, the Crown Super IIs are rear-engined with underfloor storage, so they don't have the high-centering issue that the mid-ship Twinkie models have. Most are 6V92s with Allison automatics, too. They make an excellent platform for a skoolie conversion - if you can find one that hasn't been crushed yet because of CA's CARB program.
One thing is for certain - the "cool" factor is off the charts with a Crown "Twinkie"
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
All this mention of no older rigs in parks which we too experienced especially out in the south west of being prohibitive for many reasons - some unreasonable is why we don't even bother with the "RV Parks" anymore. We don't need or even want the amenities. That's what (our) self containess is all about... We love BLMs, National Forests, Parks, Seashores - you know the reason for the Federal Senior Pass & free admission to boot! Florida State parks are awesome because us senior residents get in for half price but what good is that when they're always booked 6 months in advance! The wife says our boonies 7 acres is the BEST campsite & when we're headed to the opposite corner there's another BEST campsite on that end now! IMHO the greatest places are where people are scarce and four legged animals & nature is abundant. The second 1/2 of the trip North or the 1st 1/2 of the trip South is the best bussing we have ever experienced & look forward to doing it again & again & again if the blasted border ever reopens... Rant over, carry on...
Quote from: RJ on April 19, 2021, 01:20:28 PM
Richard -
A tandem Crown, like you mentioned, has some of the things you're thinking about, but they also have a few negatives.
99% are mid-engined, either a Cummins or a Detroit. Light duty maintenance is easy, but anything major requires a hoist to drop the engine/transmission.
Being mid-engined, their ground clearance isn't much better than an OTR coach, and driver's have to be especially careful because high-centering severely damages the engine.
Being mid-engined, they have virtually no under-floor storage space.
They have a huge trunk, but the frame rails end just behind the rear axle, so there's no structural support for a heavy-duty hitch w/o major welding. The trunk is specifically designed as a "crush-zone" in case of a rear end accident.
But none of these issues are insurmountable. Donna Marvel and her husband have a fabulous 35' Crown conversion, they've ingeniously overcome the mid-engine issues to create their dream RV.
That being said, the Crown Super IIs are rear-engined with underfloor storage, so they don't have the high-centering issue that the mid-ship Twinkie models have. Most are 6V92s with Allison automatics, too. They make an excellent platform for a skoolie conversion - if you can find one that hasn't been crushed yet because of CA's CARB program.
One thing is for certain - the "cool" factor is off the charts with a Crown "Twinkie"
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
That's exactly why I chose a Super II Crown: rear engine, 8ft-long full-width underfloor storage, lots of empty space underneath for everything else, and mine has the higher-HP 6V92 with Jake and an HT740 (exactly the same drivetrain as a MC9), and above all the legendary Crown build quality. It's well-equipped (11 gauges, air seat, air door, heated mirrors, etc.), everything important is easily-accessible, and it's still essentially simple (no airbags - yeah!). It rides better than many air-ride buses I've been in, without any wallow or pitch, and I can drive it for hours without feeling tired. And most importantly, when I got it after 20 years of service it had only about 274,000 miles; any OTR bus with that mileage is way beyond my price range, and most 20-year old OTR buses have a million miles or more, meaning that lots of their greasy bits are getting due for expensive repair or replacement. My bus is barely broken in by OTR standards!
Will my conversion be like the typical skoolie conversion? Heck no! The interior will be starkly modern and minimalist, a sort of Bauhaus meets Nordic meets executive jet, something that Le Corbusier would be at home in. So saying, with 2kW of tiltable solar and 400 gallons of tanks it will also be able to boondock for weeks at a time, and reach some BLM lands where OTR buses fear to tread.
After twelve years of working on it I hope to finish it this year after I retire, then you may be seeing it at Quartzsite next year.
John
Quote from: Dave5Cs on April 19, 2021, 12:30:25 PM
Not a law YET but here is the Bill. >:(
https://drivinvibin.com/2021/04/15/proposed-texas-senate-bill-criminalizes-rv-parking-overnight/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=proposed-texas-senate-bill-criminalizes-rv-parking-overnight
Doesn't surprise me in the least given the Vanlife explosion. And the RV explosion that happened during COVID.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 18, 2021, 07:48:50 AM
The school buses these people are converting are air rides ,school buses have used air ride since the 60's some had leaf springs .lol I owned a Blue Bird Wonder Lodge with leaf spring it was so rough riding my wife said it would shake the bed sheets off the bed ,even the Crowns went to air bags
I'd like to add my two cents and clarify a little about the use of air ride on school buses in general. The simple answer is that they just don't. The vast majority of all school buses are built on standard medium duty delivery truck glider chassis, and being cheap is the major consideration. They are rough riding and usually built to last about ten years in regular school bus service and a life of about 150-200k miles at most before being too expensive to keep and maintain. These are what are being purchased for conversions mostly. Worn out and usually badly rusted to boot.
I own four Crowns personally and yet I don't consider myself to be a School Bus conversion/owner. Crowns are a distinct breed apart and much closer to a Coach in design and execution. I'm a Crown owner and that is a distinct and different breed apart from the simple School Bus vs. Coach divide.
Yes, Crown built school buses, and that was a major market for them, but they also built the worlds finest Fire Apparatus as well. Los Angeles City and County Fire were almost exclusively Crown only. Many surrounding Fire departments were also exclusive Crown customers, and that market reached far and wide, much as the School bus market did, but maybe not quite as far.
How many of you know that Crown built some extremely fine inter-city coaches, and with all the engineering features of any Coach you can name. Full air-ride, under-floor luggage, rear engine, Air conditioning, the whole package. Do a DuckDuckGo (I don't patronize googles if I can help it) for the Crown Atomic buses built for the Atomic Energy Commission. There are also many great Crown builds for the National parks service using the standard mid-engine design with beautiful coach interiors with parcel racks, reclining coach seats, air-ride and air conditioning too and fluted aluminum siding. They did everything. Look up the highway postal service buses, they were unique and a few have been converted into outstanding RV's. Crown built anything the customer wanted and would pay for. Crown Coach and Body was THE supremely high quality custom vehicle manufacturer who built to whatever the Customer wanted. Hand built by true Craftsmen.
By the way the vast majority of Crown school buses are full spring suspensions. Air ride suspensions were installed on Crowns as an extra cost option but not generally done due to the costs. Two of mine are in fact all air-ride, while the Tandem has it only on the back axles. The 35ft two axle is all springs which was the default standard for most Crowns. They ride much better than any of the other brands and the overall strength and build quality is why they last so long. True million mile, 100 year buses if taken care of, which isn't terribly hard or even expensive when compared to coaches.
I've driven in commercial service most all Coaches and are definitely looking to add a nice MCI when the time comes when I can justify the expense and upkeep it will require. But for now the Crowns are much easier and less expensive to keep and drive. Driving a Crown is definitely the biggest reason to own one. It's like no other bus in the way it handles and offers the driver such a feel for the road and where he's going with it that no other coach can compare. It's very much like a high class expensive sports car in the way they handle at high road speeds, and yes mine are capable of way more than 75-80mph. The tandem already does 80+ with no top end in sight, and so will the 35ft one when I get around to changing the rear end, or converting it into a 10sp OD from it's current 10spd direct. I may even do both, I'll wait to see how it all comes out. I have options.
The real answer is that a Crown in good condition is a total blast on the open road and when the time comes to take one on a less improved road I can attest to many decades of experience where I've taken Crowns into places where a passenger car would probably not make it, note I didn't say 4wd, but a 2wd car. Crowns are massively capable and extremely maneuverable in tight quarters and on very nasty road conditions, that's why I own them.
Also as RJ said they are an extreme challenge when it comes to building out any conversion and require great ingenuity in where to place tanks, house batteries, electrical, beds, furniture, etc. Really it comes down to how they might best be used. In point of fact I'm finding out that the Tandem 40ft Crown with it's two rear wheel humps inside are giving me grief and actually losing me several square feet of usable flat floor to build out things inside. I also have a very nice 35ft 2axle Crown that allows for more flat floor to build with, even though the overall length is slightly less.
The final consideration as far as I'm concerned is that I intend to build the Crowns out for those missions where the destinations will be probably less improved roads and mountains and places where a Jeep would feel at home since I consider them to be Jeeps in what they can do. Camping, boon-docking, total off grid open country, where it is right at home with the needed amenities built in but not overly luxurious, functionality is the watchword. A self contained, mobile, tent on wheels.
I'm always looking for a good Coach to buy and recently have passed on a couple, but the time will come when I'll have a good one. The goal for that will be for a more open road capable and maybe off road too, but it will be meant for the less rough and ready, but more glamorous but still functional ventures. Always the actual driving of, and road trip, will be the main reason to take any of my little fleet out for a jaunt. Not sure how I'll decide which one to use, should be interesting.
Being a commercial driver all my life has taught me that a well maintained and well engineered vehicle is all the reward one needs when doing any kind of road trip, the adventures and destinations become merely the excuse to take it out in the first place. Being solid and capable is paramount and the necessity of getting me and mine all back home safe and sound with minimal drama on the road, with no breakdowns, or meeting the various flavors of Road Pirates out there. Happy Trails.
Quote from: someguy on April 19, 2021, 08:57:30 PM
Doesn't surprise me in the least given the Vanlife explosion. And the RV explosion that happened during COVID.
Not to mention the butt brains who pull into a Walmart or wherever they find a place to park and roll out stuff like they're permanent & or dump tanks in storm drains - plenty of them ruin it for all...
I don't see many converting older school buses most are around 2000 models electronic engines and transmission with air ride ,the roof mounted AC units will freeze your butt off ,I have a 64 model flat nose Carpenter with a 534 Ford engine that is air ride .I watched a scrap yard here crushing Crowns with Cummins and Detroit engines makes you sick .I wanted the 35 ft Crown with a 8.2 Detroit which was new so bad I offered double the scrap price and they crushed it anyways
Red Skeleton's Crown coach! :^
https://www.rvusa.com/blog/throwback-thursday-vintage-rv-1960-crown-coach/
The NAU in Flagstaff had 2 Crown inter city buses I don't know where they ended up at but they were nice buses with polished siding
Is the skin on a crown steel or aluminum?
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 20, 2021, 04:07:51 PM
Is the skin on a crown steel or aluminum?
The siding looked to aluminum over steel
One of the NAU Crowns was converted nicely. Have not seen the fellow on the boards for quite a while, maybe he will chime in. Here's a pic of the Crown I owned, 1965 ex-INL from Idaho. Really have a soft spot for Crowns especially after rebuilding this one, too bad the Idaho salt damn near ruined it. It's at Bus Boys now.
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 20, 2021, 04:07:51 PM
Is the skin on a crown steel or aluminum?
The answer for this is, yes. Like all Crowns, it was whatever the original customer wanted it to be. I've seen both Aluminum and Stainless used for siding. The real sides of the Crowns were usually Aluminum and Steel with the fluted steel right under the windows and the rest down to the bottom were slightly curved aluminum panels. The flashy fluted siding would be placed over this, but there were no absolutes in how a Crown was configured.
Look closely at some Crowns both school and tour buses and you'll sometimes see the cool metal pieces put over the vertical window posts with the forward leaning angle on them. These were merely screwed onto the vertical posts and added a measure of visual streamlining to the lines of the bus. Some of course had actual slanted highway style windows installed depending on the intended use for the Crown. The attached pics show Aluminum and Stainless siding as well as fake highway window dressing and true highway windows. Whatever was to the Customers request.
Some School districts even specified that the whole side was to be steel instead of the usual aluminum, since that was a cheaper material. I've even seen all steel sidewalls without the patented Crown Dry Wall installation under the windows. Madness, actually, and showed how penny pinching bean counter fools at the Districts managed to ruin perfectly good Crowns as they rusted away much faster than normal with all that steel in place and sitting water to boot, they were useless in a much shorter time and most of them are now long gone. That's the fate of a lot of Gilligs as well since they were mostly steel and used very little aluminum in their structures.
You guys are forgetting the Gillig Robert Tassi has the nicest one around with the mid ship 6-71 lol you can look at it and see the $$$$$$$ spent. FWIW Country Coach used the Gillig chassis for a platform for their RV's for years before building their own
Quote from: Coach_and_Crown_Guy on April 20, 2021, 09:53:42 PM
The answer for this is, yes. Like all Crowns, it was whatever the original customer wanted it to be. I've seen both Aluminum and Stainless used for siding. The real sides of the Crowns were usually Aluminum and Steel with the fluted steel right under the windows and the rest down to the bottom were slightly curved aluminum panels. The flashy fluted siding would be placed over this, but there were no absolutes in how a Crown was configured.
Look closely at some Crowns both school and tour buses and you'll sometimes see the cool metal pieces put over the vertical window posts with the forward leaning angle on them. These were merely screwed onto the vertical posts and added a measure of visual streamlining to the lines of the bus. Some of course had actual slanted highway style windows installed depending on the intended use for the Crown. The attached pics show Aluminum and Stainless siding as well as fake highway window dressing and true highway windows. Whatever was to the Customers request.
Some School districts even specified that the whole side was to be steel instead of the usual aluminum, since that was a cheaper material. I've even seen all steel sidewalls without the patented Crown Dry Wall installation under the windows. Madness, actually, and showed how penny pinching bean counter fools at the Districts managed to ruin perfectly good Crowns as they rusted away much faster than normal with all that steel in place and sitting water to boot, they were useless in a much shorter time and most of them are now long gone. That's the fate of a lot of Gilligs as well since they were mostly steel and used very little aluminum in their structures.
Your passion for Crowns sounds similar as our passion with our GM PD4104. The Crowns are a special breed - We've always had a soft spot for the Wanderlodge & the Gillig & the Crown. Sounds like the Crowns had lots of options available more than other busses.
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 21, 2021, 07:52:07 AM
Your passion for Crowns sounds similar as our passion with our GM PD4104. The Crowns are a special breed - We've always had a soft spot for the Wanderlodge & the Gillig & the Crown. Sounds like the Crowns had lots of options available more than other busses.
You don't have to convince me about the 4104. The first coach I learned to drive in was a 4104, just like the very first bus was in Crowns. I Love the 4104 as the fantastic combination of excellent engineering and incredibly durable use of materials and construction. I think they are the best and most balanced design and execution of any production bus. The MC9 would be in my opinion the second choice for that classic combination of utility and ease of keeping it on the road and in revenue service. That's why they built so damn many of each and kept them in production for most of a decade in each case.
A good and well maintained 4104 is a true joy to drive and I do miss the experience, but I'm also aware that for a bus conversion and possibility of having to take it into dicey situations of steepness, or having to reverse with a failed reverse solenoid, (all parts availability today sucks), makes it, for me at least, a better choice to use a Crown with simple all mechanical systems and much better terrain clearance and steep grade (driveways and such) capabilities. Time does indeed march along and getting a good 4104 and finding the parts today must be a true and never ending Holy Grail level Quest.
My hats off to all of you that have any GMC and manage to keep them on the road and out of scrap yards. I still think the GMC overall design and construction was the best fleet owners choice for it's ruggedness and simple overall ability to keep them repaired and in service, at least as long as the parts support supply chain was intact. Today probably not so much.
Someday I'd like to meet and maybe drive for old times sake some of the nice GMC coaches I see here. They demanded the very most out of the driver and made us better drivers for sure. It was a point of pride to be able to get one down the road and not miss shifts or spill the passenger drinks by being so smooth they didn't feel us shift. Pretty much a lost art and nobody seems to miss it or remember what it was like to have those skill sets.
I think this skoolie is cool and very well done. Especially since the guy is on 27 years old, which is an infant around old guys like us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmDwFgQsYhc
David
Looks to me like he just put it in the hands of professionals and wrote the check..>>>Dan
That really looks top notch, though I wouldn't want to drive that thing too far though. Doesn't show the toilet. In skoolie world the 5 gallon pail "composting toilet" is the thing.
In a school buses you get an all steel blank canvas. A 40 foot long ,102 inch wide highway coach is just too much machine for most people to enter the bus world. A $2000 steel tube has popular appeal.
In our state School buses lose state subsidy after ten years old, so a lot are dumped every year at very reasonable prices. Great starter platform for first time enthusiast to work or develop his or her talents.Many will eventually move to a bus conversion if they stay in the hobby. Better to screw up a school bus shell than a coach shell in the learning process.