I came across some information on this in a different forum.
Rivian https://rivian.com/ (https://rivian.com/) is a company that will be building Electric Vehicles, They have a pickup truck and SUV planned to be released in 2021.
I first heard about these vehicles in a movie with Ewan McGregor called Long way up, where they rode Electric Motorcycles all the way from the tip of South America to Los Angeles, They used Prototype Rivians as the support Vehicles for the Harley Davidson Prototype LiveWire Electric Motorcycles.
In that movie a couple of times when the Batteries got low on the Rivians they were able to tow charge the Vehicle with great results.
These vehicles performed exceptionally good on this grueling journey.
Not confirmed, but the Founder of the company has said that the Vehicles will be able to be Flat towed behind an RV and it is rumored that you might be able to charge them while being flat towed, although this might degrade fuel mileage and performance.
Wishful thinking, these vehicles will have Regenerative Braking and that could be useful in a Jake Brake sort of way.
Peter
It would be interesting to set one up to engage regenerative braking as "trailer brakes" based on the output of the bus brake controller. With this setup it shouldn't impact mileage any more than a regular trailer, would be safer, and would charge up nicely.
I have been wondering about something like this for a few years now. Seems like an interesting idea. Get something for free while towing your car.
One way or other , you WILL PAY,,, it is written..>>>Dan
OK but the cost is in the purchase price. If you can buy an ecar for reasonable money it makes sense. In fact the only thing about this idea that I don't like is that they are all still ugly as original sin. But then you could say that about nearly any car being made today. Why is it that Dodge seems to be the only major maker with some sorta good looking cars? Weird.
Jim
I'm not a car person but Tesla's look pretty sharp
I understand that Tesla owners have been disappointed in the car part of the vehicle.
they tend to not hold up all that well, and I'm finding many on used car lots way before they should be>>>Dan
I think a lot of Teslas appear on used car lots because the first owner leased the car. People who own expensive cars like the Tesla tend to switch cars often. A local used car dealer only sells electric cars. There are 13 cars on the website and all 13 started as lease vehicles.
Tesla has a lot of fit and finish quality issues, but I have not heard of them not holding up well.
Quote from: benherman1 on April 01, 2021, 10:05:23 AM
It would be interesting to set one up to engage regenerative braking as "trailer brakes" based on the output of the bus brake controller. With this setup it shouldn't impact mileage any more than a regular trailer, would be safer, and would charge up nicely.
Why would an electric car manufacturer want to take the time to do this? The number of people who own both a motorhome and an electric car plus want to tow the electric car four down has got to be a extremely small market.
Quote from: belfert on April 01, 2021, 05:29:01 PM
Why would an electric car manufacturer want to take the time to do this? The number of people who own both a motorhome and an electric car plus want to tow the electric car four down has got to be a extremely small market.
You can't flat tow electric cars as they must be energized so as to not have the motor destroyed by eddy currents.
Buy hey I do remember a couple of episodes of ICE Road truckers where they had pusher rigs for very heavy loads to get up the hills. It would be very nice to have cyber truck that could assist on grades and recover energy on the downhill side.
Maybe that's the place to lobby for it.
Quote from: freds on April 01, 2021, 07:42:37 PM
You can't flat tow electric cars as they must be energized so as to not have the motor destroyed by eddy currents.
Seems like there's a pretty simple (in concept) solution right there then - have a 'toad mode' on the EV which engages the drive motors just enough to keep this from happening; could easily use the regenerative brakes to make enough power to sustain that while in motion I'm sure. Hasn't been developed yet, but as the EV market continues to grow it's pretty much inevitable.
Heck, looking ahead a few years I wouldn't be shocked to see autonomous EVs come with connection hardpoints front and rear - going for a long drive on the highway somewhere? Your car automatically starts or joins an existing train of others heading the same way, with the workload shared. Clearly on the sci-fi side compared to today's capabilities, but not that far fetched. At that point, you don't even have to hook the toad up to the bus, just tell it to link itself up while you're on the way out.
Oh, also, saw an article the other day about a Jeep Wrangler EV that's coming out with a manual transmission - who knows with that one.
Quote from: Nova Eona on April 01, 2021, 08:35:20 PM
...At that point, you don't even have to hook the toad up to the bus, just tell it to link itself up while you're on the way out....
Maybe you could just send it a command to 'follow' and it would do just that - stay behind you the entire trip like a puppy dog on a leash. If autonomous vehicles do come on the scene like some are predicting which can follow other vehicles in traffic it would seem like having your toad follow you to the campground should be possible one day.
Of course it would be freaky to see it passing you up when some high-tech car thief figures out how to hi-jack the 'follow me' command.
Quote from: freds on April 01, 2021, 07:42:37 PM
You can't flat tow electric cars as they must be energized so as to not have the motor destroyed by eddy currents.
Supposedly Rivian electric vehicles will be able to be flat towed. That was how this thread started.
We saw a model S Tesla on fire yesterday at a charging station ,EV are our future but they still have some bugs to be worked out ,I'll probably never own one
There were almost 190,000 thousand vehicle fires in the USA in 2019 so it is not surprising an electric vehicle happened to burn.
Quote from: belfert on April 02, 2021, 05:45:28 AM
There were almost 190,000 thousand vehicle fires in the USA in 2019 so it is not surprising an electric vehicle happened to burn.
LOL friggn plastic gasoline lines with high pressure doesn't help any,most of the diesel engine fires are turbo related that is easy to figure but why electric cars burning ?
Quote from: luvrbus on April 02, 2021, 05:52:44 AM
LOL friggn plastic gasoline lines with high pressure doesn't help any,most of the diesel engine fires are turbo related that is easy to figure but why electric cars burning ?
Electric cars have plenty of opportunities to burn. High voltage electronics and batteries that require active management can and will get toasty quick when something goes wrong. Over time companies will learn new tricks to keep things safe and more stable battery tech will come along. The battery in an electric car holds a crazy amount of energy. If someone were to short it in the worst way possible and override any safeties, no shielding (or metal) would survive the experience without becoming a liquid.
They just announced that the new Rivians would start delivery in June of 2021.
They will have a range of over 300 miles.
They have more than 800 hp and more than 900 ft lbs of torque available, can do 0 - 60 in 3 seconds.
There will be an 8 year 175,000 mile warrantee.
I will not be buying one anytime soon with a Price tag of Between $70,000 and $80,000.
I could find no mention on the Rivian Website of the RV towing capabilities.
Overall I like the concept and look of these vehicles.
They are also apparently contracted with Amazon to build 100,000 Electric Delivery vehicles.
Peter
I think Bollinger has some good potential too - https://bollingermotors.com/ (https://bollingermotors.com/)
Even further outside my price range than the Rivians are, but cool. Also, checked their site upon thinking about it, and:
"Will the B1 and B2 be flat towable?
Yes, both will be flat towable. "
Why do a lot of these trucks look like military vehicles? I know a lot of people don't like the look of modern pickups, but things seem to be swinging too far in the other direction.
And where is all the electricity going to come from to charge all these EV's?
What are your ideas? Please don't turn this in to a political discussion.
Here is an article from Toyota expressing a concern for the second time.
https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-preston/2021/03/19/toyota-warns-again-about-electrifying-all-autos-is-anyone-listening-n1433674 (https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-preston/2021/03/19/toyota-warns-again-about-electrifying-all-autos-is-anyone-listening-n1433674)
Quote from: usbusin on April 02, 2021, 11:16:33 AM
And where is all the electricity going to come from to charge all these EV's?
What are your ideas? Please don't turn this in to a political discussion.
Here is an article from Toyota expressing a concern for the second time.
https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-preston/2021/03/19/toyota-warns-again-about-electrifying-all-autos-is-anyone-listening-n1433674 (https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-preston/2021/03/19/toyota-warns-again-about-electrifying-all-autos-is-anyone-listening-n1433674)
Be a great time to upgrade our grid and bring it out of the 19th century.
The power grid will absolutely need significant upgrades to support this. Hopefully this will provide enough consumer interest to force the subject. American infrastructure is woefully out of date in lots of ways.
The alternate option of course is for the grid to remain at similar capacity and home solar takes off. I prefer the latter option because it will reduce reliance on public infrastructure. Of course after a cloudy week the grid will be under a healthy strain...
If the recent events in Texas don't demonstrate a need for grid upgrades, I doubt anything will.
Home solar is fine and I fully support people being as independent as possible. That won't cure the problem though, as there will always be a need for a public infrastructure. While many homes can incorporate solar, more urban areas, businesses, and those with a tree canopy will never be able to install enough solar to meet their electric needs.
One of the great things about the US (in my opinion) has been our ability to pull together and do big projects which serve the needs of the overall community. Hopefully we'll be a world leader on building out our grid and not a follower.
Most people have no concept of the gross amount of energy used by today's automotive fleet, but if all vehicles were electrified overnight I'd guess that given current electricity production at full capacity out of a 24 hour day the typical driver might be able to drive for five minutes before having to sacrifice home heating to make up the difference. That's probably being very generous once you figure in the commercial vehicles.
We'd all agree that EVs ought to me a good bit more efficient than ICEs but even so, when you consider that an average sedan at cruise outputs enough waste heat to keep a 3 bedroom house toasty warm you can see where this is going. You might be lucky enough to trade every minute of driving for a minute of heating lost but I wouldn't count on it. And you'd never get the public to willingly make that trade anyway. So the real question is, where is all that extra electricity going to come from? We sure can't just pull it out of our a$$.
For those of you who remember the brownouts and blackouts from the "good old days", get ready. They'll be back.
Jim
When talking the US grid we're talking the whole country except TX - I don't know how AK + HI play into the national grid.
When talking about the TX grid we're talking about TX - & of coarse the $$$ that we're suppose to go into upgrade for inclement conditions surely got pocketed.
Shame shame...
Of course the grid and power production will need upgrading - this has been true for quite a while, EVs are not the only thing driving that need. The good news is, there is no switch labeled 'Make all cars electric' which can be flipped to overload the somewhat antiquated grid we have now; the change will be gradual, and the power companies will adapt as necessary (because profit).
Electric vehicles are substantially - by multiples times - more efficient than internal combustion engines when it comes to turning provided fuels (electricity/gas/diesel) into motion. Each have their own supply chain of costs to produce that fuel of course, but which would you rather have as an end-user device; one that's around 20% efficient, or one that's around 85% efficient? The entire reason why EVs are surging in recent years is because the economics make sense, and EVs have far more room for future growth than ICE engines which have long been in the 'diminishing returns' category for R&D.
And, what source will all this new electricity come from; solar, wind, natural gas, oil, coal, nuclear?
If the new electricity is produced from solar/wind what will the "sustainable" back-up be; batteries, nuclear, natural gas, oil, coal?
It is my understanding you need 100 to 115% backup of maximum usage incase solar or wind is not available.
How many square miles of land or ocean will be required to produce the required energy from solar/wind? How much increased efficiency can we expect?
Questions, questions? How do we agree on how to solve this huge increase of electricity if we eventually go to all EV's, both private automobiles and all commercial vehicles up to class 8, buses included?
Some states are talking/legislating the elimination of new internal combustion engines in the near future.
All of the above, and don't forget hydro. While the distant future will likely be fossil-fuel-free for the most part, that's for the nearer-future to figure out. It's entirely possible to fully support EVs while recognizing that fossil fuel vehicles and plants aren't about to disappear overnight.
Regarding the square mileage, plenty, but far less than we have available. Personally, I'd much rather live down the road from a solar or wind farm than an oil or nuclear plant.
Fusion is bound to turn up sooner or later as well, though again - that's for the future to sort out. I'm just interested in making sure the EVs of today don't get killed via anecdote.
I read some years ago that 10,000 square miles of solar panels in Nevada could supply the entire USA with electricity. Of course not at night, and you couldn't transmit power to the entire USA.
I think that this is one of those situations where an "all of the above" answer is the one to go with.
sure they are getting more popular. tax incentive, cheap to recharge right now, fad, just like Starbucks coffee, being different, "green", etc. there are a lot of lemings in this country . Maybe make some effort on dealing on massive traffic jams at rush hour could help a lot. Electric cars may have issues sitting in traffic for two hours on a 90 degre or 20 degree day.
We'll get there as the logistics get worked out. I would imagine a lot of solar panel surface will start being added to the near future electric cars.
Wonder how long till it is made known that the crude supply is being depleted faster than any new supply. How long can the current world consumption of fuel last. 5 years? 20 years, 50 years?
Ice storms and falling trees take any grid out,parts of OR was without power for weeks around Portland,I doubt Texas will ever go back on the national grid
Starbucks was founded in '71 and became huge around '92, not sure I'd use them as an example of a 'fad'.
Still big with millenials and xers. Oh yes, and craft beers, Chickfila , anything their parents didn't eat, jacked pickups with wide tires sticking out, diesel pickups, two cycle Detroit Diesels, tiny homes...
Huh. I go by- 'diesel is for power, gas is for washing parts' I like my diesel pickup🙂👍
P.S. don't know where electric vehicles come in🤔
The key is to not get in a big hurry. Every time you try to rush things it costs you. Time, money, or blood, maybe all three. So rather than go all rabid about it, it would make more sense to plan out a steady transition that minimizes the ripple effect by building up the infrastructure as the fleet changes over, and also recognize that ICE is not going away. There will always be applications that is is better suited for than EV. And there will always be the retro crowd who quite simply refuse to give it up.
I don't mind the madding crowd treating their cars as appliances, just as long as they don't insist that I join them.
Jim
I think what this forum needs is a sticky'd thread somewhere where we can argue endlessly over whether EVs have a future so that other threads asking questions about them don't inevitably devolve into that.
Diesel fuel is not going away anytime soon,I haven't saw any 767 planes with electric power yet flying the skies
Quote from: peterbylt on April 02, 2021, 07:30:22 AM
They just announced that the new Rivians would start delivery in June of 2021.
They are also apparently contracted with Amazon to build 100,000 Electric Delivery vehicles.
Peter
Amazon is the largest stock holder in Rivian could be why he is buying 100,000 EV they will probably be converted Ford vans since they own a lot of Rivian stock,can see buying a EV from Amazon with the "1 click "
I don't think anyone is stating diesel fuel is going away, as in going to zero. And each person is free to stick their head in the sand but electric power is the way forward, period. How it is generated on a massive scale will be determined by bean counters, nuclear aside. As recent events continue to show there is zero room for error when a fusion nuc plant goes bad. If they figure out fission, that may be the final solution
Quote from: windtrader on April 03, 2021, 10:22:52 AM
each person is free to stick their head in the sand
See, it's comments like that one right there that strike folks as a personal attack and that doesn't help move anything forward whether it's the agenda or cooperation, or whatever your goal might be. And saying that all electric is the doo-all, be-all, end-all is just plain mistaken. Hark back to the 60's and the era of the all-electric home with the power companies handing out wall medallions and incentives like candy corn, explaining how much more efficient it was and how it was going to save the homeowner so much money. Did they eliminate all the alternatives? Not even close. It can probably be said that they didn't eliminate any of them. And the much ballyhooed efficiency never really trickled down to the homeowner either did it? Same here. The most that the EV, appliance, and autonomous crowd can hope for is to carve out a larger share of the market, which is something that will happen without all the pot stirring anyway. If current market share is 2% you can't possibly believe that will reach a major share any time soon, even with all the legislation you care to throw at it. It's simply too large of a mass to move that fast. Especially when real live people can see as plainly as their hand in front of their face that they aren't going to save any money by converting. You want to make it happen? Find a way to keep half the buyer's money in his pocket and you won't be able to hold them off. Shy of that it's going to be standard market pressures as usual. With a few fringe easily influenced buyers jumping on the bandwagon.
Jim
Well, I do apologize if the comment was abrasive. It is fact that the general commentary is on the resistive side rather than the adoptive side. As I implied you can do as you wish, embrace or hide, have it your way as MickeyD says or is that the King.
When discussing any new technology time is a major factor. And I absolutely believe governments can set the pace of adoption of new technology. Just look at the state where I live. Look what they did to the entire two stroke diesel technology; virtually killed it in a decade or two. The same thing is happening now with the move off fossil fuels. It is just fact.
Now, if you ask the question when will this be common on globally. Maybe never. Same as old belching two strokes roaming many roads in the third world.
We can all have opinions, that is what makes for variety and keeps things lively. Not a big deal if you go the beach, some stare at the stars, some put their head in the sand. It's all good.
California, among many other states, has introduced specific goal-oriented targets, such as the 100% Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS), 100% renewable power by 2045. One of the state's policies includes the California Solar Mandate that begins on January 1, 2020. This initiative by the California Energy Commission requires California to produce 50% of its energy through clean energy sources by 2030.
Whether you're a developer or a homebuyer, here's everything you need to know about the California Solar Mandate.
What is the California Solar Mandate?
>>
The California Energy Commission introduced the California solar mandate which requires rooftop solar photovoltaic systems to be equipped on all new homes built on January 1, 2020 and beyond. This progressive ruling is the first of its kind in the US and is leading the nation to a cleaner energy future. This initiative by the CEC aims to spearhead California's milestone goal of producing 50% of the state's energy through clean energy sources by 2030.
<<
Quote from: belfert on April 01, 2021, 05:25:10 PM
I think a lot of Teslas appear on used car lots because the first owner leased the car. People who own expensive cars like the Tesla tend to switch cars often. A local used car dealer only sells electric cars. There are 13 cars on the website and all 13 started as lease vehicles.
Tesla has a lot of fit and finish quality issues, but I have not heard of them not holding up well.
LOL some pickups cost more than a Telsa
2021 Duramax Denali crew cab. $82k plus. Almost every option as an Escalade.
government policies will determine speed of change. large rebates, tax penalties for using gas or diesel, etc. Europe had/has that incentive with high fuel taxes on gas and low on diesel for years.
saving money is always an incentive.
why was there such resistance when unleaded fuel came about. If they made it a few cents cheaper rather than more, would have been smoother transition. Remember removing fuel filler neck restrictions to be able to add leaded and removing converters.
Currently on the pickup diesel forums, many are removing converters and deleting the def systems. modding the factory software is a moneymaker for some outfits.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 03, 2021, 01:46:36 PM
LOL some pickups cost more than a Telsa
I was thinking more about the model S that starts at $70k and goes up to $145k.
It sure does look like electric vehicles are coming on strong, but how things will unfold and how fast remains to be seen. Generally, when experts predict the future they are wrong. Weren't we supposed to be driving hover craft by now?
Anyway, I think that we are going in for a Tesla. Well their solar roof anyway. I need a roof and wanted to try solar, so it seems like a natural.
Where are they with the solar cells that come in a big roll and can be rolled out on the roof like a tarp? Got that one done yet? Seems like that's what will be needed to reach those lofty goals. Needs to be as cheap as conventional shingles and wind and waterproof naturally.
Jim
Quote from: peterbylt on April 02, 2021, 07:30:22 AM
They just announced that the new Rivians would start delivery in June of 2021.
They will have a range of over 300 miles.
They have more than 800 hp and more than 900 ft lbs of torque available, can do 0 - 60 in 3 seconds.
There will be an 8 year 175,000 mile warrantee.
I will not be buying one anytime soon with a Price tag of Between $70,000 and $80,000.
I could find no mention on the Rivian Website of the RV towing capabilities.
Overall I like the concept and look of these vehicles.
They are also apparently contracted with Amazon to build 100,000 Electric Delivery vehicles.
Peter
Heck have priced a top of the line ford powerstroke recently?
Another one is the GM Hummer EV. https://www.gmc.com/electric/hummer-ev (https://www.gmc.com/electric/hummer-ev)
The statistics are very similar.
MSRP between $80,000 and $113,000
300+ mile range
Pickup or SUV
0 -60 in approx. 3 seconds
1,000 HP and 11,500 Ft Lbs. Torque.
That's not a typo the GM website says 11,500 Ft Lbs. Torque, Wow, with kind of Torque you could have the Bus as the Toad!
GMC expects HUMMER EV production to begin fall 2021.
I cannot find any indication that it will be able to be flat towed, but all the pictures of them have these nifty tow hooks already in the front bumper that would make hooking up to a tow bar simple.
I have also not seen anything about a tow charge feature on the Hummers.
Peter
That's 300 miles OR 1000hp. Not both.
Jim
Look carefully. Most evs measure torque at the hub