Hi folks. I've got a bus conversion I'm in the process of restoring. My engine, a fully mechanical Detroit Diesel, is getting to the point it needs an in-frame overhaul.
I've been giving serious thoughts to upgrading to a DDEC 8v92T, or a Series 60, and given I currently have no in-bus computers or OBD ports or anything, think it would be about the same effort for either upgrade.
I've been having trouble finding info on the in-bus computers and wiring needed, or finding other folk who have done any other fully mechanical to computerized engine swap, so I thought I'd reach out to the good folks on this board to see if anybody here had info or advice in this area.
What say you, fellow bus nuts?
Imo, if you are serious about this, I would go with a series 60. Probably buy a whole semi tractor with one in it in good shape. Everything would be there for your needs. Newer ddec should be easier to deal with. I'm assuming you don't need a left hand sideways engine. I have no idea how much you'd get into buying a tractor. Might be out of your price point, but easier than tracking down myriads of parts over months or years.
If you have a sideways engine, just fix what you have. Limited choices for that combo. Only practical alternative would be going to a 6V-92. Even that would require changes and parts chasing.
Gary and Van from B&B, put in a series 50 from a city bus, into a 1960 Flxible, with a reduced amount of the electrical connections and wiring...
The ISM Cummins 400 t0 500 hp is easier and you will never keep a 8v92 cool in FLX
Yes I have done quite a few @ B&B, We used donor bus's. Not familiar with a 65'FLX, what's it got under the hood for power now? Last FLX we did was a Fifty somthing Starliner, Took out the 471 DD and shoe horned a Series 50/B500R in it that came from a Phantom transit from Oregon. Maybe RJ will chime in with the exact model as we had him deliver it to Vegas.
Quote from: chessie4905 on October 28, 2020, 06:43:04 PM
Imo, if you are serious about this, I would go with a series 60. Probably buy a whole semi tractor with one in it in good shape. Everything would be there for your needs. Newer ddec should be easier to deal with. I'm assuming you don't need a left hand sideways engine. I have no idea how much you'd get into buying a tractor. Might be out of your price point, but easier than tracking down myriads of parts over months or years.
This is a good idea, I hadn't actually thought of that. But given some of the quotes I've received are $30k plus for an inframe, it's probably a realistic option.
The engine currently in there is a mechanical 8v92T that's longitudinal and standard rotation. 450 horsepower, two side radiators with two gigantic hydraulic fans, so cooling has been fine. The series 60 would actually be smaller, and shouldn't have problems fitting.
As some know, I was able to pick up a bluebird Ltc-40 at a decent price, (auction) which came with s60, b500 and full length wiring harness. I also used driveshaft, chargeair cooler, alternator, entire front wiring harness with relays, front steering box, tie rod, and steering wheel, not to include the air ride drivers seat. Start adding all that up and you have real money....
Donor bus is the way to go in my opinion. Didn't have to touch wiring hardly at all, and the rest I was familiar with, ie plumbing coolant, fuel, charge air and exhaust
Now on the ddec side, I have a December '99 engine with ddec 4, so I am before any emissions ....
Mine is set 430 hp, 1650 tq
For getup and go? It's a bus. It won't slam you in your seat. But when it hits 3rd gear, you know it.
I'm pretty sure we only have half of 30k in everything including new exhaust, different radiator, new fan drive , and some mistakes on the driveshaft...
Then again, we're not really counting either. ;)
Quote from: Van on October 28, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
Yes I have done quite a few @ B&B, We used donor bus's. Not familiar with a 65'FLX, what's it got under the hood for power now?
So it is intensive enough electronically to need a whole donor then? I had in my mind I'd just need to wire up some gauges and an obd2 port, but realize that's probably hopelessly optimistic. ;D
It's a mechanical 8v92TA right now.
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on October 28, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
As some know, I was able to pick up a bluebird Ltc-40 at a decent price, (auction) which came with s60, b500 and full length wiring harness. I also used driveshaft, chargeair cooler, alternator, entire front wiring harness with relays, front steering box, tie rod, and steering wheel, not to include the air ride drivers seat. Start adding all that up and you have real money....
Donor bus is the way to go in my opinion. Didn't have to touch wiring hardly at all, and the rest I was familiar with, ie plumbing coolant, fuel, charge air and exhaust
Sounds like you're exactly where I want to end up! Cheers, you have my respect and admiration.
Where are some good places to look for bus auctions? I'd appreciate any pointers.
Quote from: 65_flxible on October 28, 2020, 07:17:06 PM
So it is intensive enough electronically to need a whole donor then? I had in my mind I'd just need to wire up some gauges and an obd2 port, but realize that's probably hopelessly optimistic. ;D
It's a mechanical 8v92TA right now.
Not that easy they don't use s OBD2 port
Some Pix
https://youtu.be/A2YyBxgVaWU
You say that is a t drive. In that case you need to do some careful measuring to determine if there is enough room for a longer engine without major surgery. Check the drive shaft length. You may be limited. Also check what model transmission you have.
What model Flx some used drop boxes that were weaker than the Eagle he has a picture in his profile but I cannot blow it up ,with 2 fans and 2 radiators it has has some modifications to accept the 8v92 already
I looked them up. They had a couple of engine options for some of the years, including the Cummins V903.
https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Flxible_New_Look
It's a New Look, and definitely not the factory engine.
With 450hp when in working order, it's the fastest 40 foot vehicle I've driven yet.
The engine is very much crammed in, with length coming within an inch or so of the box. Allison 740 transmission.
It's my understanding the S60 is shorter lengthwise though, so I'm not too worried.
I'll try to attach some pics, if new members are allowed:
The series 60 is longer and taller than a 8v92,the 60 is 56 inches long the 8v92 is 48 inches
Quote from: chessie4905 on October 29, 2020, 06:55:18 AM
I looked them up. They had a couple of engine options for some of the years, including the Cummins V903.
https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Flxible_New_Look
The 903 Cummins V8 was a V drive only left turning Cummins ever made and was a gutless wonder to be so large
They must of had two versions, I had the 903 right turning in my military tank retriever in the sixties. Maybe it had less power compared to what is available now, but it pulled 60 ton tanks just fine. It was geared so low that 45 mph was redline.
I had a 903 Turbo in a Mack R600 I pulled a 3 axle lowboy behind did ok till you loaded the lowboy with 50 tons ,Cummins still made that engine for the military till 2015 or 2016
I put a Cummins ISM 400hp in my MCI 96A3. You can read about it here:
https://www.brihil.com/bus-conversion-2007-engine-replacement-pictures/
How's everything Brian? We're all good - as FL dodged hurricanes well so far this year, Covid not so good... Hope all is well with you & yours.
I guess a 60 series would be no problem. Just hang it out further than what you already have. I think your best bet would be to rebuild what you have, as long as the current engine doesnt have cooling issues.
That's a pretty cool install :^
I like it.
Personally, my donor bus came from 'purplewave'
An online auction site that serves the Midwest.
There are also people on this board that have gotten extremely cheap mci busses with same drivetrain. Only problem with that is mci's are very complex, which may result in lots of trouble trying to get the wiring harness to work.
Another good thing about the Ltc-40 is that all wiring is 12 volt, and it comes with hydraulic fan.
Of course I got rid of the hydraulic fan, because I wanted simplicity and it wouldn't really fit. My rear pulley is 1 inch inset from back of bus, I'll have to get some pictures.
Mason
To the OP,, if your present system works well and does not heat, than stay with what works.. You can develop a ton of problems and spend a ton of money on it and not benefit that much for the trouble .. Put your money to better use..>>>Dan