I had to replace the regulator on my 8KW Powertech generator because I blew it out. The replacement regulator was set to 148 volts! I adjusted it down to 127 volts. Anyhow, my issue is it starts at 127 volts with no load and the voltage drops pretty fast after that with a load on it. By the time I put three 1,500 watt heaters on it for a total of 4,500 watts the voltage was down to 107 volts! I talked to Powertech support and he seemed to think that is normal. The only thing he said is to check the hertz.
I had a conversation with Jason (I think that was the name) at Wrico today about just replacing this generator next summer for something better. He says his generators will stay within a few volts. Nothing like a 15% to 20% drop like the Powertech.
If the RPM drops with the increased load,, then that's your problem.. The RPM is needed to maintain 60 hertz..>>>Dan
You dont have a fuel filter starting to get plugged? Is the engine governor mechanical or electronic? Does your generator head have brushes? Are they in good condition?
Fuel filter has about an hour on it, maybe two hours. I replaced it right after my last trip.
The hertz is a funny thing. My meter has a kilohertz readout. My power from the power company reads .060 KHz or 60 Hz. The generator with the breakers on the generator off reads something like .490 KHz or 490 Hz. I suspect the problem is my meter because everyone I have talked to says that there is no possible way to generate that many Hertz as it is RPM dependent.
That is not normal my ONAN 12,500 will only drop 1 volt with 3-15000 AC units running,buy you a cheap non contact hand held tachometer and check the RPM drop under a load, to me it sounds like the governor is not sensing the load on the little CAT engine .PowerTech is not the greatest generator but they are not all that bad
Get a hold of a VOM that has a Hz function. Test anywhere you have an outlet.
You should be seeing 60-61 Hz at no load. At FULL load no less than 57 Hz.
The difference in no load to full load is referred to as "droop" and is usually expressed as a percentage. 5% droop is normal for this setup.
So for every 30 rpm = 1 Hz. 1800 rpm = 60 Hz.
The voltage is a result of excitation and should not drop more than 5-8 volts from no load to full load as long as
the engine can supply the needed power.
Besides the fuel filter the air filter may not be allowing the engine to produce full power. Quick test is run engine without it. Is exhaust system
free from blockage/debris?
Fuel delivery may also be culprit. Try running engine out of a 5 gallon bucket right next to engine.
From memory Powertech used to use Isuzu engines and Stamford-Newage alternators. Both decent names. (I have an 8kw with that setup
and the Isuzu is practically bulletproof)
Lastly, your injectors could be fouled, sometimes a result of running with too little load or a load of crappy fuel.
I would exhaust every last possibility before replacing the unit and discovering a collapsed hose or something similar.
Hope this helps.
The fuel and air filters were both replaced after my last trip and have maybe two hours on them. Things got a fair bit better after replacing the filters.
I do have a meter with kilohertz on it. It reads .060 KHz for my shore power, but something crazy like .490 KHz for my generator with no load.
Check all big connections inside control box of generator for loose or burned connections.
Get a "kill-o-watt" meter.
Besides all sorts of good busnut load measuring, it also reads Hz.
Best, cheapest tool a busnut can buy towards one's electrical planning and measuring efforts.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 17, 2020, 03:52:08 PM
Check all big connections inside control box of generator for loose or burned connections.
I had already checked all of the connections for tightness before some of these issues popped up.
I will get a Kill-A-Watt at Harbor Freight tomorrow. I really don't think the hertz is as high as my meter shows or everything electronic like the inverter would have blown up.
Take it to CAT dealer they can tell you in a few minutes if the engine is producing enough hp for the generator head you can spend lots of money and still be looking for answers didn't we go through this a couple of years ago ?
I am about 75% certain I am going to get a Wrico generator next spring and junk the Powertech. I talked to someone at Wrico and they assured me their voltage wouldn't drop like the Powertech.
So...your Powertech has done this since new? How many hours? Does the head use brushes?
Quote from: belfert on September 18, 2020, 04:43:48 AM
I am about 75% certain I am going to get a Wrico generator next spring and junk the Powertech. I talked to someone at Wrico and they assured me their voltage wouldn't drop like the Powertech.
Changing you will need to build your own quite box,I don't think Dick offers that option,it is not going to be a plug and play,On the Country Coach owners forum people are not happy with the PowerTech either,you have a advertiser here EPS that builds a darn good generator
Suddenly, everyone is down on Powertech? They have been the darling for past several years, from the many posts here.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 18, 2020, 07:49:13 AM
Suddenly, everyone is down on Powertech? They have been the darling for past several years, from the many posts here.
Growing pains,off shore parts and quality control some models of Powertech have always been a problem,the CC manual it tells you to replace the bearing in the head @2000 hrs on the Powertech that never happens then the owners piss and moan about buying a new head I personally don't care for Powertech but they are not really bad for the price,CC used the PowerTech for a few years then dropped the PowerTech I think it was mostly due to no service network,one good point about Onan any Cummins dealer will repair it if you have deep pockets
I have four generators at the moment, a Martin with a Perkins, a Kohler with a Yanmar, a Wrico with a Kubota, and a PowerTech with a Kubota. The Powertech has the most hours, by far, 19,849, and is still working fine. If I wanted to splurge on a new one, I would choose a Martin with a Yanmar, or Kubota (if they offered it). Martin is an Ohio company, so that makes the most sense for me, but the key thing is that Yanmar and Kubota engines are the best available for bus sized units. The generator heads don't seem to last as long as the engines, from what I have seen, and the proliferation of Chinese generators may have lowered the overall quality. But strangely, the Powertech I have with 19,849 hours, has a Chinese made head. :o
Martin and EPS are the most desired generators for the entertainers buses when they are 20kw and larger,those little CAT engines like Brian's will run forever I seen those on marine generators in boats with over 25,000 hours working everyday
You need 2 generators. lol. I have seen it on some entertainers coaches: 2 20kw. So they have a spare, and have one running while you change the oil on the other one.
That's the case with my Model 15 Eagle. It goes beyond oil change flexibility though, they had appliances and three roof A/C's on one, and four CruiseAirs on the other. The previous owners had up to 24 people on board, and they really wanted to be cool when they toured the west. One larger generator could have handled it, but I think they wanted redundancy to insure that they always had something.
"one good point about Onan any Cummins dealer will repair it if you have deep pockets "
Yea, and usually its by suggesting you buy a new one.
Quote from: Fred Mc on September 18, 2020, 11:37:55 AM
"one good point about Onan any Cummins dealer will repair it if you have deep pockets "
Yea, and usually its by suggesting you buy a new one.
Yep sometimes that cheapest way out on any generator with major repairs,I had my 3800w rebuilt cost me a tad over 3 grand and a new generator was only $3200,never had any problems with Cummins repairing a generator,my propane generator wasn't venting and would not start Cummins in Boise worked on it for a about a hour and never charged me one penny he just ask me to buy a new air filter
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 18, 2020, 06:53:12 AM
So...your Powertech has done this since new? How many hours? Does the head use brushes?
Not sure if it has done this since new. I only had two air conditioners at the start instead of three now. Five years of this off and on now.
1,800 hours. Yes, it has brushes that were last checked in 2014. I could check the brushes again. I keep a spare set of brushes.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 17, 2020, 07:49:55 PM
Take it to CAT dealer they can tell you in a few minutes if the engine is producing enough hp for the generator head you can spend lots of money and still be looking for answers didn't we go through this a couple of years ago ?
Thanks for the suggestion. I got an appointment at the local CAT dealer for Monday morning.
Quote from: belfert on September 18, 2020, 04:43:48 AM
I am about 75% certain I am going to get a Wrico generator next spring and junk the Powertech. I talked to someone at Wrico and they assured me their voltage wouldn't drop like the Powertech.
Hey, I'd be interested in it. I don't use more more than 30 amp usually. Looking to go diesel. You stopped out a few years ago when I just got my coach.
This generator is a hunk of crap. My low voltage issues are so bad now I can't even run more than one rooftop A/C unit. This thing is probably going to the nearest scrap yard. I seriously want to beat it with a sledgehammer.
I think I want to go with Wrico for a replacement. Wrico seems to understand the conversion market plus they use relays and not an ECU. They advertise here like the others.
How was your appointment at the Cat dealer on Monday? What did they have to say?
Quote from: usbusin on September 22, 2020, 07:35:45 PM
How was your appointment at the Cat dealer on Monday? What did they have to say?
I had to cancel appointment.
Are rebuilt or replacement ecu's still available?
Quote from: belfert on September 22, 2020, 07:20:11 PM
This generator is a hunk of crap. My low voltage issues are so bad now I can't even run more than one rooftop A/C unit. This thing is probably going to the nearest scrap yard. I seriously want to beat it with a sledgehammer.
I think I want to go with Wrico for a replacement. Wrico seems to understand the conversion market plus they use relays and not an ECU. They advertise here like the others.
They still use electronic voltage regulators and if you want auto start capabilities they are electronic as well.
I installed a 13K generator head from Wrico on the Perkins engine in our 4106. The unit ran great and produced smooth clean power. Never had a problem with the voltage, and once the RPM on the engine was dialed in the frequency was solid as well. I believe we set it for 62hz at no load, and it never dropped below 59 at full load.
Cat is his best bet to check the speed control which cost $700 bucks and the rectifier
Still cheaper than a new generator. Yeah, it needs a thorough checkover. Could be something simple. You might pull the exhaust manifold and check for carbon plugged exhaust ports. Where did you get the generator? Whats his name used to sell lots of them and was helpful to several on here that had issues, or it may have been over on BNO.
The topic is generators so just asking. What is true market for a used generac 7.5kW generator with 800 documented hours? Just considering unloading this beast from the bus and getting a small portable as a backup to the solar/lithium setup.
Probably good in Hurricane hit areas with a lot of power outages. I know some here 😉 don't care for Harbor Freight, but their small Predator generators have good reviews and much cheaper than a Honda. They can be paired also like the H.
Quote from: windtrader on September 23, 2020, 10:25:10 AM
The topic is generators so just asking. What is true market for a used generac 7.5kW generator with 800 documented hours? Just considering unloading this beast from the bus and getting a small portable as a backup to the solar/lithium setup.
Gas, LP, or diesel? Diesel could fetch more than the others.
Quote from: thomasinnv on September 23, 2020, 10:41:16 AM
Gas, LP, or diesel? Diesel could fetch more than the others.
Generac with belt drive don't bring much on the market wonder if Don's is direct or belt driven
It is diesel and bolt on. It is a very nice generator. I have considered mounting on side of my house but we so rarely have electrical interruptions it really doesn't make sense. If we do have an outage of any duration that causes disruptions to our daily routine or comfort, we'll walk across the driveway and open up the bus. :)
Quote from: windtrader on September 23, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
It is diesel and bolt on. It is a very nice generator. I have considered mounting on side of my house but we so rarely have electrical interruptions it really doesn't make sense. If we do have an outage of any duration that causes disruptions to our daily routine or comfort, we'll walk across the driveway and open up the bus. :)
Generac really got a bad reputation when Briggs and Stratton owned the company for a few years and they are hard to sell because of it
Quote from: luvrbus on September 23, 2020, 11:35:37 AM
Generac really got a bad reputation when Briggs and Stratton owned the company for a few years and they are hard to sell because of it
Generac's main plant is just down the road from me. Quite popular around here.
Quote from: belfert on September 22, 2020, 07:20:11 PM
This generator is a hunk of crap. My low voltage issues are so bad now I can't even run more than one rooftop A/C unit. This thing is probably going to the nearest scrap yard. I seriously want to beat it with a sledgehammer.
I think I want to go with Wrico for a replacement. Wrico seems to understand the conversion market plus they use relays and not an ECU. They advertise here like the others.
You can't go wrong with a Wrico Genny, Dick Wright is a pleasure to do business with and a good resource when needed.
Brian there will be a nice one coming up for sale soon it is being swapped out for a bigger unit. Let me know and I will PM you the contact info ;)
Not trying to steal anyone's deal here, just curious what the market is for a very good condition diesel generator. Obviously being out west, far better to make a deal out here.
Couple pics of the genny.
Quote from: windtrader on September 23, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
Not trying to steal anyone's deal here, just curious what the market is for a very good condition diesel generator. Obviously being out west, far better to make a deal out here.
Couple pics of the genny.
PM sent. ;)
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 23, 2020, 10:19:44 AM
Still cheaper than a new generator. Yeah, it needs a thorough checkover. Could be something simple. You might pull the exhaust manifold and check for carbon plugged exhaust ports. Where did you get the generator? Whats his name used to sell lots of them and was helpful to several on here that had issues, or it may have been over on BNO.
My concern is spending $500 to $1000 at the CAT dealer and they find nothing wrong. I bet they are at least $150 per hour. I went to a Detroit dealer last year and spent $700 for a morning worth of work.
The generator was bought brand new direct from Powertech in 2006.
Quote from: belfert on September 23, 2020, 04:34:29 PM
My concern is spending $500 to $1000 at the CAT dealer and they find nothing wrong. I bet they are at least $150 per hour. I went to a Detroit dealer last year and spent $700 for a morning worth of work.
The generator was bought brand new direct from Powertech in 2006.
$500 to $1000 vs $8000 + all the labor to change it out, someone is going to pay you 3 to 4g's for that generator and you knowing the problem and telling someone is a + for you CAt dealers know generators testing you are going to be less than $500
I thought Dick Wright used to sell Powertech generators. You could call him for his thoughts if he is the one that used to sell them. They used to say on BNO that he was the go to guy.
Did you check any forums for Powertech?
https://www.powertechgenerators.com/collections/regulators
There are a few different forums also.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 23, 2020, 06:20:18 PM
I thought Dick Wright used to sell Powertech generators. You could call him for his thoughts if he is the one that used to sell them. They used to say on BNO that he was the go to guy.
Dick never sold Powertech he always built his own,if I remember Dick purchased the business from a older gentleman that made the bus rallies and FMCA rallies selling generators and inverters