Well its a 1982 mci 9 6v92 dd,with dual radiators up high ,dont know when anti freeze was changed still looks good but decided to change it , does anybody have an idea to what brand anti freeze to use and i was told it needs to be a 50/50 mix help would be appreciated thank you shadow.....
Can't go wrong with 50/50 in most climates, but for the 92 series you need a solution with anti-cavitation properties I believe, due to the wet sleeves - others with more knowledge in this area will be chiming in shortly I'm sure!
Quote from: CRM_66 on September 15, 2020, 02:39:10 PM
Well its a 1982 mci 9 6v92 dd,with dual radiators up high ,dont know when anti freeze was changed still looks good but decided to change it , does anybody have an idea to what brand anti freeze to use and i was told it needs to be a 50/50 mix help would be appreciated thank you shadow.....
Detroit Power Cool is hard to beat in the 92 series.most of the time the Detroit dealers sell it cheaper than a Walmart stocked anti freeze
Once you get the antifreeze, get yourself a bottle of test strips. You can use these to test the antifreeze for level of freeze protection, and you can use these to monitor the level of the various components of the solution.
What is the correct antifreeze for an 8v71?
Thx
Don't waste your money buying the pre mix it's good to carry to top off with but you pay a lot for water buying it
Also be sure you get all the air bled out when changing it!
It is very expensive if you leave air pockets!
;D BK ;D
I've heard the bus grease monkey say that you can run any antifreeze in a '71 series, but you need anti-cavitation for wet sleeves, such as the '92 series.
I've been using the red antifreeze, it's said to have more heat carrying ability, lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on September 15, 2020, 10:09:29 PM
I've been using the red antifreeze, it's said to have more heat carrying ability, lvmci...
Gotta be careful going by just color nowadays - many companies are using whatever color they like and it doesn't necessarily mean anything anymore.
You can add Nalcool or similar to, at least the green. It is a water wetter, aiding in heat transfer and anti-cavitation.
Peak Global,,, no other additives needed..>>>Dan
Quote from: Glennman on September 15, 2020, 09:24:32 PM
I've heard the bus grease monkey say that you can run any antifreeze in a '71 series, but you need anti-cavitation for wet sleeves, such as the '92 series.
LOL he is wrong there,surely he didn't say that,read the current DD spec,that is sorta like saying the old DD spec that approved 15/40 is still ok to use and you could use any water but ditch water times have changed .I use the green for people that want it but the heavy duty green in color cost more than the Power Cool extended life
The Monkey is not a good reference for Detroit Diesel knowledge.
JC
I use Zerex Heavy Duty Extended Life Antifreeze in my Detroit Series 60. I got my last batch for $18 on sale at NAPA. ZXED1 is the part number at NAPA. It has the right additives for a diesel in it.
I don't know if this is the right stuff for a 71 or 92.
We have been using Prestone extended service green from the shelf for 40 years in our 671 DD without issue. Da 1953 book simply states a permanent-type antifreeze such as ethylene glycol is recommended.
Quote from: lostagain on September 16, 2020, 07:07:56 AM
The Monkey is not a good reference for Detroit Diesel knowledge.
JC
Gotta disagree with you there. The statement in too general. No one is perfect. The Bus Grease Monkey and his 100,000 subscribed followers & forum have been and continues to be instrumental in reincarnating lost dead vintage & antique beasts of beauty all the way back to pre-war models. Lots of newer stuff can't comment on & sorry for the thread drift. :^
I have seen a 8V71 that he rebuilt. Total disaster.
The only thing he is good at is promoting himself on Youtube.
JC
Quote from: dtcerrato on September 16, 2020, 07:50:19 AM
We have been using Prestone extended service green from the shelf for 40 years in our 671 DD without issue. Da 1953 book simply states a permanent-type antifreeze such as ethylene glycol is recommended.
Gotta disagree with you there. The statement in too general. No one is perfect. The Bus Grease Monkey and his 100,000 subscribed followers & forum have been and continues to be instrumental in reincarnating lost dead vintage & antique beasts of beauty all the way back to pre-war models. Lots of newer stuff can't comment on & sorry for the thread drift. :^
People used Prestone green in 92 series for years but added the chemicals and changed it every 2 years.
Lol my wife has a friend with with 3.8 million YouTube subscribers for cooking and it has to be the worst food I ever tried to eat.People find their niche in life if they can cash in that's OK,Scott is not the only person for old buses by no means Ted William has been doing it 60 years,we have Zimmerman that runs up and down the west coast working on buses to he is damn good even on electronic engines and transmission,but like me he doesn't do the Youtube gig
I get the red from one source, they service fleets of buses here in the southwest. Also you can get it from Detroit dealers. I think it helps with climbing mountains, that surrounds my area...
Not looking to get into a pissing contest with anyone.
We know by our own personal experiences that one O-sheet erases all the attaboys...
I frequent this forum as others & enjoy it.
We've dealt with for decades Ted Williams, Hausman, Luke with US Coach, Otto with Mohawk, more recently & saviors Scott Crosby & Gene Russell & also the late Dean's Coach. Our 671 IL purrs like a kitten authored by Scott.
We don't do Facebook nor You Tube but learn from videos pertaining to our bus.
Just trying to balance some negative comments about a parallel forum.
I choose to look at the positives in life and it's all good, well almost...
Carry on
Thank you for toning down the heightened negativity...looks like (someone) has a bone to pick with a particular individual.
This is not the place to pick it, for sure.
I am confident we all appreciate good comments in regards to a simple question.
Quote from: dtcerrato on September 16, 2020, 12:13:49 PM
Not looking to get into a pissing contest with anyone.
We know by our own personal experiences that one O-sheet erases all the attaboys...
I frequent this forum as others & enjoy it.
We've dealt with for decades Ted Williams, Hausman, Luke with US Coach, Otto with Mohawk, more recently & saviors Scott Crosby & Gene Russell & also the late Dean's Coach. Our 671 IL purrs like a kitten authored by Scott.
We don't do Facebook nor You Tube but learn from videos pertaining to our bus.
Just trying to balance some negative comments about a parallel forum.
I choose to look at the positives in life and it's all good, well almost...
Carry on
Scott takes his hits on F/B Scott and I were friends for several years till one of his followers on F/B said I called him a shade tree which was a friggn lie I just made the statement he needed insurance to protect the owner.He knew how I felt about the Kevin deal (Arizonadeselman) I made that clear on the phone.What I don't like is he will take a cheap shot at you on his hide outs where you cannot respond ,now Gene Russel is a prince and knows what he is doing
OIL, ANTI-FREEZE and TIRE SIZE.
:-X
John
Quote from: Jriddle on September 16, 2020, 01:03:39 PM
OIL, ANTI-FREEZE and TIRE SIZE.
:-X
John
Tire size they have it right the Brand is the killer
Quote from: HoBoJo Busman on September 16, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
This is not the place to pick it, for sure.
This is precisely the place to expose situations where poor work was done that caused wasted time and money for a fellow busnut. If someone's work is deficient it could be a one-time mistake that should not reflect on all of his work, but when problems come up due to shoddy work, it should be corrected, not brushed off. A mechanic worth his salt will stand by his work. These kinds of situations should not be swept under the carpet and hushed up.
I have followed BGM religiously for about a year. Don't particularily like his videos about fixing his VW Thing and such but then I can choose not to watch. But I think his instructional videos are tops.
For example he shows you how to diagnose worn s-cam bushing, what they look like when worn out, how they work(and don't work) and how to replace the bushing WITHOUT special tools all with clear closeup videos.
And just a month or so ago fixed a guys oil leak for under 100 bucks when a shop quoted 5 or 6 thousand dollars.
Another example is his use of solar, lithium and mini splits. Tells you what he uses ,where to get panels and how much they cost, what kind of mini split.The whole shebang.And he backs that up with real world experience-like the fact he has lived off grid in his bus just running on solar and batteries and using his a/c.
I wondered about the fact that he makes money from utube videos and then came to the conclusion that he is providing a real service with most of his videos.That's got to be worth something.
Recently he received a used golf cart from a follower for free.So he took the money he had set aside for a golf cart and he and his wife stood in the checkout line at a grocery store and randomly paid for people groceries.
Not saying that he is better or worse that other mechanics just that I find his service worthwhile.
As for botched jobs over the years Ive read more than once that supposedly reputable shops have screwed up. Mind you I can't remember the last time I screwed up-unless it was the time 20 years ago I lost both rear wheels on the drivers side while going down the interstate at 65mph. :D
I don't screw up. Of course about 40 years ago the wheel came off my MGB while my brother was driving it on an autocross course, but hey, that was a "feature". ;D
Jim
71 Series can use good old Prestone Anti-freeze since you don't have to worry about wet cylinder liners. Good Luck, TomC
Huggy uses good old North Carolina mountain spring water. Never seen any freeze so must be good.
Sometimes I even take a nip or two.
uncle ned
:^
Quote from: Fred Mc on September 16, 2020, 02:20:42 PM
Edit...
I have followed BGM religiously for about a year. Don't particularily like his videos about fixing his VW Thing and such but then I can choose not to watch. But I think his instructional videos are tops.
Edit...
Not saying that he is better or worse that other mechanics just that I find his service worthwhile.
As for botched jobs over the years Ive read more than once that supposedly reputable shops have screwed up.
OK my take on this is that he is an old school evangelist in that if it kept our grandparents gainfully employed, maybe we should try to preserve what pieces of rolling history that are out there.
He does have a thing for Greyhound scenic-cruisers and would be the first to say that if someone stumbled across a fully seated bus; that they should not convert it!!! It should be restored and placed into a museum...
As to working on the VW Thing, hey all of us in high school would have thought that it was a brand new car!!! Absolutely nothing that our world war II shop teachers couldn't have helped us with.
Hey my shop teacher was an ex marine fighter pilot and we all conspired to get him talking in his way back machine mode to make the shop period wiz by!! Mr Wes Corman I do miss you and hey your daughter was killer!!!
Actually I bumped into him with friends where I had flown into an island resort for lunch and had to leave immediately; as the plane I was flying was rented and someone else was waiting for me to return so they could fly it. I should have said; hey I have a flat tire and I will be back late. Oh and he was driving his wooden boat which he had restored.
Flashing back to the airplane related stuff, I had a nice bird for two weeks and a friend of mine flew it immediately after my return and got chewed out for the grass stains that I left on the prop when taking the airplane camping in the back country...
If your post indicates you use water only, you're asking for trouble, freezing temps can happen in many locations, even as far as Florida. If you mean you use your water mixed with new coolant, then never mind. I use our water with coolant. Out west the water is high in mineral that causes build up in system.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 17, 2020, 04:24:06 AM
If your post indicates you use water only, you're asking for trouble, freezing temps can happen in many locations, even as far as Florida. If you mean you use your water mixed with new coolant, then never mind. I use our water with coolant. Out west the water is high in mineral that causes build up in system.
Spring water is a term for home brew, like white lighting ,I have tasted some of the stuff that would eat the hoses off if used for anti freeze
Clifford I gave Wayne some. I think he thought it was to drink not to use for antifreeze.
LOL
uncle ned
Double Eagle
Ie: These kinds of situations should not be swept under the carpet and hushed up.
I am sorry to see you assumed I was suggesting that someones shoddy work, be swept under the carpet.
I did not say or suggest such.
Thank you for your opinion here, we all appreciate your concerns.
Ned That stuff was Antifreeze no wonder i didn't see straight for a few days.
Wayne
:) Believe you all meant "Ted Campbell in Williams, California" at Coach Maintenance. ;)
Yes, that's him! We just always said Ted in Williams...
Quote from: HoBoJo Busman on September 17, 2020, 03:28:05 PM
Double Eagle
Ie: These kinds of situations should not be swept under the carpet and hushed up.
I am sorry to see you assumed I was suggesting that someones shoddy work, be swept under the carpet.
I did not say or suggest such.
Thank you for your opinion here, we all appreciate your concerns.
I get PM's all the time telling me there are 2 sides to the story but no one ever tells or documents the other side,the engine was screwed up,Yvan treated Scott fair I think it could have been a brawl on web,Yvan is a gentleman and a very sharp guy he just asked me for help and I helped him and stayed out of the video's
I was at Clifford's for a week with Yvan, Sylvie, and Gary Hatt, taking apart that engine. What a mess!
I just want people to know to be very careful who you choose to wrench on your bus.
don't confuse self promotion with competence.
Don't confuse the number of inexperienced followers one has as some sort of reliable endorsement.
The carnie huckster didn't stand behind his work, otherwise none of us would have heard a peep.
The loud noises made by the bahing sheep have to be shouted over.
We have no way to know how many others out there have further problems after being "worked over" , same as the typical rv crowd, they praise their dealers for fixing the shoddy built stuff, with more shoddy built stuff, but they were treated well, and left blissfully unaware they got rooked.
Damned stupid not backing up your work, when dealing with someone with a continent wide exposure in another part of the automotive service industry.
Damned stupid.
Everytime someone posts to "try the monkey" the newbie must be warned.
Otherwise, we are all just as cheapened as he is.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I understand what the crux of the issue. Some feel the lack of experience is the problem while others seem to think taking care of the customer on promised work and costs is the problem. We all can learn more and make mistakes from time to time but I do agree having solid character and performing what is agreed to is the key to a good reputation and respect. Seems he generally does satisfactory work that meets his customers needs and expectations. Seems to keep busy but that could mean getting anybody for service is rare so you can't be too choosy and take what is out there.
Quote from: buswarrior on September 18, 2020, 02:47:08 PM
don't confuse self promotion with competence.
Don't confuse the number of inexperienced followers one has as some sort of reliable endorsement.
The carnie huckster didn't stand behind his work, otherwise none of us would have heard a peep.
Great observations.
We have drifted off the original thread once again, but the new subject is more important than the first one.
When I first heard of the "Monkey" I thought, great, an experienced old school Detroit Mechanic is traveling around helping owners fix their older buses, and he even allows the owners to assist. Then I came to realize that he is relatively young, and that he does not have substantial training or experience beyond picking up knowledge from his son, and gaining training as he progressed through projects. Some people are happy with what he accomplished, but others are not. The 8V71 that he worked on for our Canadian friends was a disaster that is akin to allowing a student to rebuild an engine without guidance. On an Eagle that he worked on that is identical to one of mine, he adjusted the Torsilastics in a time consuming way that I found odd, and then he later added air bags when the adjustment did not work. I decided then that he would not work on any of my Eagles.
I also found it odd that he would use a "go fund me" solicitation to pay for a concrete pad at his new location. If he is running a "business", that seems inappropriate.
I would be very curious how his videos of various projects would be critiqued by truly experienced mechanics. They may look very interesting to the inexperienced, but would they stand scrutiny. When established garages decide to steer away from old buses, and 2 cycle mechanics disappear, we are left with the current situation which might be regarded as the exploitation of the uninitiated. That will sound harsh to some, but inadequate to others.
Ok, first time poster, hello I am one that appreciates all the knowledge that I see here but... I also see just about every post drift to something that has noting to do do with what was originally asked...
This post was about what type of antifreeze or coolant was recommended for a specific motor...
Then I read all about how greasemonkey is...
Really?
Let's help the guy with recomendations on the coolant and not who wrecked a motor?
I am a noob and ready to face the consequences but please can we please answer the original question before we drift to other things?
Quote from: LeonS MC9 on September 19, 2020, 04:05:30 AMLet's help the guy with recomendations on the coolant and not who wrecked a motor?
I am a noob and ready to face the consequences but please can we please answer the original question before we drift to other things?
The original post was answered in my opinion
John
"I also found it odd that he would use a "go fund me" solicitation to pay for a concrete pad at his new location. If he is running a "business", that seems inappropriate."
Can you provide a link?
I also recall in one of his videos he was describing working an a bus where as they got further into it they found more and more thongs wrong (not unusual) and of course the cost was going up. His "followers" started to make donations on line which totaled about $1000 which he then knocked off the guys bill.
Ive never had any work done by him because he "wont come to Canada" so probably never will either.
Quote from: LeonS MC9 on September 19, 2020, 04:05:30 AM
Ok, first time poster, hello I am one that appreciates all the knowledge that I see here but... I also see just about every post drift to something that has noting to do do with what was originally asked...
This post was about what type of antifreeze or coolant was recommended for a specific motor...
Then I read all about how greasemonkey is...
Really?
Let's help the guy with recomendations on the coolant and not who wrecked a motor?
I am a noob and ready to face the consequences but please can we please answer the original question before we drift to other things?
Thread drift has been going on for as long as there's been busboards. Moderators would herd, wrangle and sperate topics out, with that leadership, there was a bit more posting discipline... then social media happened, moderators got tired, posters took offence at moderator decisions...
And here we are.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: Fred Mc on September 19, 2020, 07:48:43 AM
"I also found it odd that he would use a "go fund me" solicitation to pay for a concrete pad at his new location. If he is running a "business", that seems inappropriate."
Can you provide a link?
https://www.gofundme.com/f/concrete-pad?utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&rcid=2c63757e05cf45a6b209bab693fda8bc (https://www.gofundme.com/f/concrete-pad?utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&rcid=2c63757e05cf45a6b209bab693fda8bc)
Quote from: buswarrior on September 19, 2020, 08:07:34 AM
Thread drift has been going on for as long as there's been busboards. Moderators would herd, wrangle and sperate topics out, with that leadership, there was a bit more posting discipline... then social media happened, moderators got tired, posters took offence at moderator decisions...
And here we are.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Thread drift is not unlike real conversions within a group of people, one topic generates comments in another. By the way, the antifreeze question was answered with bonus information. ;)
This is starting to sound like piling on.
If you think someone has done poor work, say so. That's already been done, so perhaps it's time to move on. It's clear that people have strongly held opinions about the situation, but it doesn't seem like this is the place to continue bashing someone. That's what Facebook is for.
Is there anyway we can try and keep the bus threads about buses and related subjects and not attacks against an individual?
Bashing goes both ways Richard,when Kevin and Scott got into about money over the Cat Ladies bus he delated Kevin from his board and went after Kevin where Kevin could not respond,I thought that pretty low my self then turns around and posts what he was paid on this very board,Hell he had to get Joe to straighten out his own rebuild on his engine
the horse is dead.
the horse is dead. Put the clubs down.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 19, 2020, 09:29:36 AM
the horse is dead. Put the clubs down.
People do need to be made aware and not pay much attention to the edited videos,lol this one was edited out
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2020, 09:38:25 AM
People do need to be made aware and not pay much attention to the edited videos,lol this one was edited out
That is $$$$ out the pipe >:( >:(
I'm not offering an opinion one way or the other about the situation itself.
All I'm saying is that for me the bus threads are an escape from politics and the constant bickering. If you guys want to continue that, please take it to the non-bus threads so that we don't have to continue to see it. I'm with the new guy on this one - this is a thread about anti freeze. Okay to drift off the main topic, but there's a limit. Maybe we can veer off and talk about uncle freeze?
Great thing about the internet and forums if you don't like you don't have to read it,they have moderators when it get to far out they will shut it down
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
Great thing about the internet and forums if you don't like you don't have to read it,they have moderators when it get to far out they will shut it down
You're right - and another great thing about the internet is that there entire areas of it devoted to people griping about things. We even have a section on this site just for things like this.
I started reading this thread when it was about antifreeze and continue to check it for the original topic. The point about Scott was made long ago, and continuing to harp on it doesn't serve any positive purpose.
I don't know what to tell you Richard you can just about bet every time his name is mention it will start again
When I changed my engine for another that was new to me I went to the local heavy diesel repair shop. They are affiliated with a fluid distributor that sells stuff like oil and antifreeze. I did decide to go with the 50/50 blend they recommended and it was green in color. I was not going to go to the local big box store or the internet to save money on this. The place I was at had high mineral well water and I didn't want to fool around finding mineral free water and mixing it. I hoped by spending a little up front I would save in the end without major problems. As always people can take advantage of you. I went to this business for this antifreeze because they have a good reputation. I thought it was the right thing to do for my new to me 6V92 engine. If I find out later that they purposely mislead me and I have major problems I will let others know. The reason is so they don't get into a business deal with out first knowing what could happen. I hope people would warn me up front if a business is not reparable.
:)
John
You can still buy distilled water just about anywhere for about $1 a gallon. If the 50/50 mix cost $1 more for 2 gallons than full strength cost for 1 gallon I'd buy it. But it doesn't so I won't.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on September 19, 2020, 01:30:55 PM
You can still buy distilled water just about anywhere for about $1 a gallon. If the 50/50 mix cost $1 more for 2 gallons than full strength cost for 1 gallon I'd buy it. But it doesn't so I won't.
Jim
I left out part of the story. My brother in-law has School buses and he uses that kind of antifreeze also. He recommended the place to do business. I'm not sure what I paid but felt reasonably happy it was an ok deal. I owed him a few gallons so I got what he used as it was the same they recommended for my application. I didn't ask them to break cases as I figured it would be cheaper to by bulk lol. Thanks for the heads up though. I also sent my wife to get the stuff and didn't want to complicate the order lol.
:^
John
Collect water from a clean dehumidifier and use it.
Following along this thread one of the take aways is to use compatible additive and test strip system.
But I find it somewhat irritating when looking for additives and test strips because the same brand may have more than
one formulation which introduces some uncertainty on compatibility.
For example
Baldwin CTK5029 test strips.
Baldwin CS5009 Coolant System Treatment
Nothing in the test strip description specifically states these strips are designed for CS5009.
I somewhat reluctant to take my chances on a counter guy who may or may not know what goes with what.
-Tom P.
Quote from: fortyniner on September 20, 2020, 06:57:40 AM
Following along this thread one of the take aways is to use compatible additive and test strip system.
But I find it somewhat irritating when looking for additives and test strips because the same brand may have more than
one formulation which introduces some uncertainty on compatibility.
For example
Baldwin CTK5029 test strips.
Baldwin CS5009 Coolant System Treatment
Nothing in the test strip description specifically states these strips are designed for CS5009.
I somewhat reluctant to take my chances on a counter guy who may or may not know what goes with what.
-Tom P.
yep some test strips are useless they only test the freezing point and Ph
You could consider a coolant filter kit with or without additives.
https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/products/coolant/assemblies/
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 20, 2020, 08:19:10 AM
You could consider a coolant filter kit with or without additives.
https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/products/coolant/assemblies/
I have the filter no chemical type just a filter
I used one of these after seeing them on military vehicles and no scale build up on radiator tubes. I used the one with the anti cavitation additive with green standard coolant on a 6.2 diesel.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 20, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
I used one of these after seeing them on military vehicles and no scale build up on radiator tubes. I used the one with the anti cavitation additive with green standard coolant on a 6.2 diesel.
You can't use the chemical release filter with the pre charged extended life antifreeze I was told by Cummins when they changed my antifreeze and filter
Thats right, just for the common green stuff.
Wow, I'm all confused, again. What the hell. I'm not going to sleep now cause I'm a afraid my new motor is going to fall apart due to the wrong antifreeze. Honestly, aren't we mostly picking over pebble colors here. How many here seriously think the standard glowing green or yellow stuff is a serious problem to these motors?
I'll go dump and swap it all out if that really is the case but it sort of seems a bit nit-picking, which is fine, just good to guide the "casual" busnut to what is in the acceptable zone. thx
Thanks for that link. The SCA level checking procedure was very instructive.
Any suggestions where to plumb in such a filter on a 4106? Tempting to insert into compressor line but if the filter clogged that might be a problem.
There is a threaded plug at the water pump to plumb in the return and the feed comes from threaded plug on block.
Don run what you like,if you don't take care of the antifreeze you will pay the price,it's not colors no color looks good running on the ground from the heads you need to use a good heavy duty antifreeze and keep the system in balance
That filter link https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/products/coolant/assemblies/ leads to a series of videos on additives and test strip usage I'm still in process of watching.
Here is what I gathered so far from the videos:
SCA additives
NITRITE: corrosion and cavitation protection plus aluminum and solder protection
BORATE: Ph control
MBT: Copper protection
SILICATE: Ferrous metal corrosion protection
SCA+ differences:
MOLYBDATE+NITRATE: corrosion and cavitation protection
PHOSPHATE: Ph control
It seems apparent the two should not be mixed since they have some different chemicals but I don't know why I would choose one over the other. yet.
I have to go back work now.
The green needs to be changed more often 2 to 3 years is about it 's life span .anyways you are on the right track since antifreeze does more than protect the engine from freezing.The 92 and 71 series use the same material for the head seals fwiw and both will turn to mush.You cannot use junk antifreeze in the 71TA series because the antifreeze has to protect the after cooler that blows the theory about any can of antifreeze is ok for a 71 series.I see people dump the Walmart house brand green into buses and shake my head it says on the jug for light duty diesels only.Not a Detroit but Cummins has never used a green antifreeze and I always used the Cummins antifreeze in my 8v92 TA
Then i found this:
https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/Detroit%20Diesel%20Coolants.pdf
Automotive type coolants generally contain high levels of phosphate and silicate, offer no liner pitting protection, and are not suitable for use in Detroit Diesel engines
And then it goes on to mention alternate coolant technology: OAT/NOAT
Ethylene Glycol / Water + OAT / NOAT InhibitorPropylene Glycol / Water + OAT / NOAT Inhibitor Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are also available with an Organic Acid Technology (OAT)corrosion inhibitor package. These coolants require less maintenance over the useful life of the engine. The cooling system should either be equipped with a "blank" coolant filter or the coolant filter and piping may be omitted from the system.OAT fully formulated antifreezes are available as concentrated and pre-mixed. Concentrated antifreezes should be mixed at 50% (50% antifreeze/50% water). ...... Detroit Diesel markets OAT-inhibited ethylene glycol coolants—DDC POWER COOL Plus and POWER COOL Plus Marine (30% glycol, 70% water). POWER COOL Plus coolants contain all of the required inhibitors. If a non-DDC®OAT antifreeze is used, it must conform to TMC RP-338 specification. Do not add extender to new OAT antifreeze or coolant.
OK, I would rather not have my new engine freeze up. So, recapping specific products mentioned in this winding thread.
Appears the answer depends on the motor. For a DD 871, which are safe and proven? Any others not mentioned?
71 Series can use good old Prestone Anti-freeze
Detroit Diesel markets OAT-inhibited ethylene glycol coolants—DDC POWER COOL Plus
[/size]Peak Global,,, no other additives needed.Zerex Heavy Duty Extended Life Antifreeze in my Detroit Series 60. Prestone green, extended service green,Red from one source, they service fleets of buses here in the southwest
If you use the off the shelf at Walmart, use Nalcool to supplement. Of course DDA wants you to use their costly products. Fine for 92 and 60 series. 2,3,4,6,and 8-71's used the plain stuff for years without issue, except for adding something for cavitation. Nalcool has been recommended for years. We used it in the coolant in our 4104 over 200,000 miles, and all our other diesels too without issue. If Cliff has seen gummy O-rings in Detroit Diesels, I'd be more inclined to think it came from oil or fuel in the coolant. What do the marine engines use in their coolant? Sea water. Time for popcorn.
:)
👍
I can tell you working on 92 series since the 70's I have never replaced a liner because of cavitation on a 92 series,there is only 2 inches of the liner in contact with the coolant below that are 2 0-rings seals the rest of liner is a dry fit same as a 71 series.
The wrong mixture of antifreeze with engine heat the 2 seals turn into a marshmallow and leak
.Neither the 71 series or 92 have a head gasket per say on rubber seals (the L 71 early models used a head gasket) those head seals will get mushy on both engines you read about here all the time
.Antifreeze also has to protect the injector cups,oil cooler,transmission cooler if equipped,after cooler on turbo engines ,radiator and water pump.
The number one cause of a oil cooler failure is the antifreeze didn't do it's job lol when you replace a oil cooler,after cooler or a injector tube it's big money you didn.t save by buying cheap antifreeze.
Green is ok if it meets DD specs.Just because you own a 50 year engine doesn't mean you need to follow a 50 year spec on antifreeze there is better antifreeze out there that last a lot longer with better engine protection,
Cheesie the boats engine made in the last 50 years use a exchanger the salt water doesn't go through the engine
Thank you gentlemen for all the advice.
Tomorrow I'm going to the NAPA store and ask the counter clerk for the stuff that meets "Detroit Diesel" specs for a DD871v. Pretty funny joke and I thought we were friends. LOL
Of course the saltwater doesn't go through most of the engines nowadays. That type is raw water cooled.They do use coolant, filters and additives.
And you see the engines that have issues and need torn down. Millions of 71 series ran fine with that terrible green stuff. Replacing coolant at proper intervals and using demineralized water with proper percentage of mix or premixed won't plug coolers, unless they were plugged like radiators to begin with from improper coolant service with high mineral water added. Those orings and seals turning to mush sure isn't caused by decent coolant, but excess heat, oil, and fuel, unless they are an aftermarket product of suspect material. I would buy genuine dda gasket sets and seals or Fel Pro for a rebuild or repair though to avoid buying mush seals. Just don't install new coolant and expect it to be good for forever. Be interesting to see at what temperature those seals degrade.
Detroit has always recommended changing antifreeze because of silica drop out,the original antifreeze for the old 71 series was Dupont Zerozone HD and it was green and I hated those 1 gal cans
Do you remember the alcohol " winter coolant? We used to sell it Our Western Auto store in the early years before current type antifreeze became standard. I still have a couple of those spouts to puncture those and oil cans.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 22, 2020, 06:17:34 AM
Do you remember the alcohol " winter coolant? We used to sell it Our Western Auto store in the early years before current type antifreeze became standard. I still have a couple of those spouts to puncture those and oil cans.
Yep and can remember going to a drug store and buying a can of liquid ether to start a old inline 71 engine,if you had a head leaking the drug stores had liquid glass you could buy,those day are gone the druggies took care of that
Yeah, they don't believe they even use now in operating rooms. Put stuff into an iv. "Count to 10" 1 ,2,3,4,......... "wake up, we're done."
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 22, 2020, 06:17:34 AM
Do you remember the alcohol " winter coolant? We used to sell it Our Western Auto store in the early years before current type antifreeze became standard. I still have a couple of those spouts to puncture those and oil cans.
That's a great point about those who follow the OEM manual and specs to the T. There are constant, beneficial advancements part of new products that resolve old known problems. Surely, some current anti-freeze products work better than the old stuff and naturally, these improved products are not mentioned in the original manuals. Additionally, DD surely released technical bulletins over decades discussing use of alternate and improved anit-freezes.
Quote from: windtrader on September 22, 2020, 03:54:42 PM
That's a great point about those who follow the OEM manual and specs to the T. There are constant, beneficial advancements part of new products that resolve old known problems. Surely, some current anti-freeze products work better than the old stuff and naturally, these improved products are not mentioned in the original manuals. Additionally, DD surely released technical bulletins over decades discussing use of alternate and improved anit-freezes.
Yes DD released TB's if you purchased the manuals and registered from Detroit,my V71 off road manuals has 88 technical revisions the 8v71 on highway has a 127 technical revisions my 92 series manuals has 76 technical revisions, the field technician service manual has 68 technical revisions I forget how many are in my inline 71 service manuals but a bunch ,now since MTU owns Detroit they don't send the technical revisions any longer like Detroit would
Heck I am still looking for a place on the Bus to put a 24 gallon canvas water bag on the front? My Dad used to say don't go out in the desert without your water bag on the Radiator... ;)
Just hang it off of your windshield wipers Dave. That is only about 210 lbs. ;D
Hi Dave, Radiator water bags were a common sight in front of cars till the 60s in LV, tom...
Quote from: lvmci on September 23, 2020, 08:17:39 AM
Hi Dave, Radiator water bags were a common sight in front of cars till the 60s in LV, tom...
I often wondered where they got water traveling in the desert to fill those when it was needed
Same place they bought gas. I wonder if they charged for water?
Rivers, Creeks and ditches!
Dad had a Model B Ford and it had a bag on it in a picture a saw of it.
We had one hanging off of the side mirror of a Corvair on a trip during the summer of 67. :)
At least you didn't need it for the air cooled engine. Off the mirror... Poor mans air conditioning. 👌
come on guys. this is embarrassing. showing how we really are a bunch of old curmudgeons farting away powering our buses down the road. I'm not admitting to seeing canvas bags on cars.
lol
Hey Don have you ever used a sparker that will really date you, LOL
These were also common in the southwest, when I was a kid. My Dad had one on his Rambler station wagen!...
Looks like a rocket launcher. Probably get arrested these days :)
Didn't really work in the east. Rockets were duds.
Jim
Tom air conditioning of the old days. They actually worked but just to cool it enough to almost make it comfortable, LOL
The key to swappers in LV, was not to use it over 25% humidity, which was a rarity if it got into double digits...