Not wanting to drift the pump tread so I started this one. I am curious as to how ya'll are using your pumps. Full time, part time when city water hook up is available via pump bypass? How is yours plumbed?
The bus is plumbed to run off city water, but to be honest the only time I ever use that is when I flush out the system to de-winterize. Otherwise, we run off the pump at all times. I like knowing that there is virtually no way for us to ever overfill our waste tank this way since I never fill the freshwater all the way to the top.
I installed the city water connection upstream from the pump, and there is a check valve between it and the pump to eliminate any back pressure on the pump and its plastic check valve. When I do connect to city water I attach through an adjustable pressure regulator to be sure I don't blow something. At home it's not an issue since our system peaks at 60 psi.
We have 90 gallons of fresh water and a 90-gallon waste tank. I fill the tank with softened water before leaving home, and we're good to go for 4-5 days before I have to worry about filling/dumping.
My other worry about running on city water is leaks. If a leak develops when city water is connected it will likely end up being a catastrophic failure damage wise unless you catch it. Our pump is wired with a pump controller and a switch at every point of use, and unless we're in the process of cooking or using the bathroom it's generally switched off.
Our entire plumbing system is plumbed with copper tubing, with the exceptions being the flex connection hoses at the sinks/toilet and the reinforced tubing near the pump. The reinforced silicon tubing near the pump was to reduce vibration transmission from the pump.
What's in the photo is pretty much what is there now, except I have a 1L accumulator tank in place of the smaller one.
Hope this is what you're looking for.
Van I have always used the auto fill valve on the fresh water tank when tied into city water the tank stays full and I use the pump never directly from city water supply,when you come down I have a good filter with a adjustable Watts pressure regulator you use on the connection point so you don't blow hoses and may have a extra auto fill valve
Richard that looks like a stout set up. Clifford thanks! I just wanted to get a feel for what every one is currently using. Having Done quite a few custom set ups for customers while @ B&B Under the tutelage of Gary Bennett whom I owe half of my left nut (the other half to Cliff) to for most of my conversion experience when I first started messing with Bus Conversions. I love to innovate designs as well as stream line applications and now I get to start redesign our coach's Plumbing to suit our needs. Our bus was purposely built by the Previous owners for weekend and regional use and only has a 40 gallon fresh tank and 40 Gray/black capacity. I'm wanting to do 100 for each. Now as far as the pump is concerned I could go with the Head hunter 110vac pump But I want to go the other direction wich is 12vac instead. Just thoughts rattling around in my head right now since the topic of pumps has been up for a bit. Thnx
What ever pump you end up going with, try and leave yourself a way to substitute another one while on the road. These things tend to give out in the worst places from what I've seen.
Our first bus had another Shurflo model, and I replaced it with a 2088 model. Same basic footprint and connections. As long as you use something with a common footprint and connections you'll always be able to get a temporary replacement anywhere.
If you go with something too exotic, you'll limit the ability to find a spare.
Thanks for the kind words about the plumbing in my bus. What Custom Coach lacked in the electrical department they made up for in plumbing. The only problems I had in the plumbing when I got it were places the previous owner didn't properly winterize or where plastic components in faucets failed from age. The basic copper plumbing is holding tight and still doing its job.
I do especially like the marine style water heater. It doesn't hold any more or heat any better than an RV model, but it has excellent insulation and the cube shape makes it easy to install in the middle of the bay like it is.
For me the "city water" hook up goes direct to two filters (one sediment, one carbon), plumbed the coach with PEX's. Installed a valve after filters to fill the 140 gal fresh water tank (closed system). The pump is a variable speed and there is no room (that I what to give up) for a accumulator tank. Three switches for the pump (kitchen, bathroom, driver "misters", we always leave the pump off until needed. Doing the system in Pex I do not worry about to high of water pressure
Quote from: silversport on September 12, 2020, 08:46:20 PM
For me the "city water" hook up goes direct to two filters (one sediment, one carbon), plumbed the coach with PEX's. Installed a valve after filters to fill the 140 gal fresh water tank (closed system). The pump is a variable speed and there is no room (that I what to give up) for a accumulator tank. Three switches for the pump (kitchen, bathroom, driver "misters", we always leave the pump off until needed. Doing the system in Pex I do not worry about to high of water pressure
I never worry about high pressure inside the coach,RV parks the pressure is all over the map so I use a good regulator at the connection I woke up to many times with a busted water hose from high pressure,and with the hose reel I don't want that
Same here on the high pressure regulator it's mounted inside the hose connection port in a more permanent style.
Never had a need for a regulator, filled water straight to the tank, turned hose off, then 12v pump thru 2 filters, shut off switch upstairs that we shut off any time we left the bus....easy simple system.
Quote from: Ed Hackenbruch on September 13, 2020, 06:22:02 AM
Never had a need for a regulator, filled water straight to the tank, turned hose off, then 12v pump thru 2 filters, shut off switch upstairs that we shut off any time we left the bus....easy simple system.
Interesting...you have your pump before the filters and then pump through them. Our filter is between the tank and the pump, hoping to prevent anything from getting to the pump.
Wonder which is better? Or, does it make much of a difference at all?
It all depends on your usage,we are setup with a washer and dryer, shower, 3 sinks,and a dishwasher,we pull into a RV park about once a week to do laundry.so I bypass the auto fill and water pump on the fresh water tank and use the parks water it more convenient that was for me so I regulate the pressure,I have a fill cap for the tank but have never used the auto fill takes care of that when using the parks water hook up
I haven't built the system yet but a couple of things... First off water quality, smell and taste varies widely and we have good water here at the home base. So I don't want hookup water contaminating my tank water until it's quality is proven.
Drinking water: I like a drinking water spigot located at the sink, with it's own filter. I realize some refrigerators do that but it's hard to fill an iced tea pitcher from there. Not hard or expensive to do. Plumbed to the pump so it is always drawing from the tank regardless of hookups.
Although filling from a hose will almost always be possible, in case it ever isn't I also have a 2" deck fill in case for instance I ever want to fill from a water company supply location or a spring. A hose can be slipped in there easily as well.
I want to be able to pressurize the system via the water source also, so the regulator and filter apply and check valves are a pretty good idea. One to protect the pump, and one to prevent outflow through the hose hookup.
Water heater will be propane/110v. I like being able to hear when the water is hot. Also with the element switched on it will heat twice as fast when the propane burner is used. Location will be under the kitchen sink.
Both copper and pex seem like good systems.
Jim
Jim with your diesel fired heating system use that instead of propane and electricity those units will produce a lot of hot water in a hurry and cheap too
Good idea, but there is a further advantage with a propane burner if you can get one of the older pilot light type ones. The pilot will keep the water warm enough for all the usual small uses like washing hands and the occasional dish so there's no delay with those usages in getting warm water and it only needs fired up for showers and such, saving a considerable amount of energy. That little pilot can burn for a long, long time on very little propane. Even useful to prevent freezing.
Jim
Regulator at fill then two filters Particulate and carbon then 2 T's with one going to ball shutoff and onto water system use and other side of first T to ball shutoff to pump and tank othe Tee to tank also and second pump and then ball shutoff and to engine room and split to rads for sprinklers both sides if ever need them. Above is 1/2" sharkbite pipe with pex fittings.
Separate system we carry 3, 5 gallon blue bottles that have a cap with a hole in the top of one where a tube goes into that bottle and can be changed very easy to another when one is empty. Comes out of bottle through another water pump on the ceiling of the bay above it across to the kitchen side up through the floor and cabinet and hooks to a faucet just for it. The pump goes on when you push the lever on it to fill drinking glass or cooking pot etc. 1'4" line on that. Have off on switches for all pumps plus auto on's when needed. Am in the process of changing all piping to pex.
Shower head had a shutoff on the hand held sprayer also.
I filter once, when filling the fresh water tank...Then as the pump sends the water to it's destination inside the bus, the water is filtered through two additional filters, a charcoal and then a cotton wound one.
If I am pulling directly off an outside faucet, the same two filters are filtering the freshwater after it comes in through the reducer at 45 pounds PSI.
hose to 2 filters then to 150 gal. tank then use the pump for all water for the coach . then through a 6 filter RO system and a uv light for drinking and cooking at the kit sink .
hot water is diesel boiler / 15 amp elect 11 gal. marine w/h tank but most of the time the elect. part of the water heater does all the work and we can have back to back showers and still have hot water to spare
do your system your way
dave
Van,
Fresh water is routed as follows.
There are two inlets, each accepts pressurized fresh water via a garden hose.
One inlet supplies fresh water to the fresh water tank or the house supply. There is an inline valve that directs the flow to the desired destination.
The second inlet on the opposite side does the same thing: supplies water to the fresh water tank or the house supply. A second inline valve directs the as desired.
The water pump is fed by a hose connected to the fresh water tank. The output line goes to a T fitting that is located on the pressurized section of pipe described in first inlet line.
Sounds a bit involved but actually pretty simple and provides fresh water from two inlets located on both sides of the bus or from the fresh water tank via the water pump. However, it is not automatic and the valves must be manually set; hardly an issue for us since we nearly always are in boondocking mode.
Thanks all for the responses, all good set ups and as was said " do it your way".
Upgrading to Pex is a for sure thing which we will be doing to our new system.
As a side note regarding Pex, has any one seen or tried this Milwaukee crimping tool yet? I have and although it is quite pricey just to do a one time system install for the DIY'er this thing is fantastic!
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2674-22C-Short-Throw-Press/dp/B07F9GMZWP/ref=sr_1_21?crid=PR08JMGF6E8V&dchild=1&keywords=milwaukee+pex+crimping+tool&qid=1600102737&sprefix=Milwaukee+Pex%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-21
I only use the Zurn PEX crimp rings so it wouldn't do me much good
Quote from: Van on September 14, 2020, 10:13:19 AM
Thanks all for the responses, all good set ups and as was said " do it your way".
Upgrading to Pex is a for sure thing which we will be doing to our new system.
As a side note regarding Pex, has any one seen or tried this Milwaukee crimping tool yet? I have and although it is quite pricey just to do a one time system install for the DIY'er this thing is fantastic!
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2674-22C-Short-Throw-Press/dp/B07F9GMZWP/ref=sr_1_21?crid=PR08JMGF6E8V&dchild=1&keywords=milwaukee+pex+crimping+tool&qid=1600102737&sprefix=Milwaukee+Pex%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-21
Yes, I love the dang thing!!! Never had a connection leak, though I wish I could say the same about the ones that I screw together...
Quote from: luvrbus on September 14, 2020, 10:52:17 AM
I only use the Zurn PEX crimp rings so it wouldn't do me much good
Are they copper Cliff?
That price is crazy for for any one than a plumbing contractor. Manual ones much cheaper and do a good job. It is nice though.
Hopefully Harbor Freight will come out with one for 80 bucks next year.
Quote from: Van on September 14, 2020, 11:33:33 AM
Are they copper Cliff?
Stainless steel Van lol and I have the tool to remove it that I have used a lot crimping on the wrong fitting
or you could use this set and put a ton of diesel in the tank and go traveling . I have a set like this and they work great in tight places + very easy to crimp .
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018VNUCSC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B018VNUCSC&pd_rd_w=dELfG&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=725fW&pf_rd_r=H4PMRGJ2S2NYF8HFWCC2&pd_rd_r=1fe38e74-924a-47db-926c-e8e8cdf4311a&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTVdXQU9PVE43WVFDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTM3NDc0MlZXMUlQWFYxQVlMNyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTEwNjUwMTZCQUdRUk5CVzZCOSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
pex pipe is awesome to use
dave
I was going to mention that set after looking, but I'm out of popcorn.
Recently on our fresh water system we added a 12 vdc bypass solenoid with a programmable timer on it so when you turn on hot water in the shower instead of it going down the drain while waiting for it to warm the solenoid diverts it back to the fresh water holding tank fot an interval of time you set it for then when the solenoid deactivates water at the shower head the temp you want it. Save lots of water with that gadget. It can also double as a fresh water tank heater to rise the tank temp if needed. Real handy upgrade for around $50.
Not sure you can call it the "fresh" water tank once whatever is in the drain ends up in tank. Most often that water goes in the "gray" tank. Not sure it's wise to put anything potentially unsanitary in that tank even if it's no longer potable.
I believe Dan is diverting the water back to the fresh tank before it ever reaches the shower head in the valve until it heats up. Once it's hot, the water goes to the shower head. That way none is wasted down the drain waiting for hot water to arrive in the shower.
Some houses use that setup when water heater is far away from some faucets, although it is an insulated loop.
Hi Van, do you remember the size of the 3 tanks you and Gary put in my bus, from that bus that was damaged? If you dont, maybe Gary will pipe in, tom...
@ windtrader & richard:
Richard got that one right...
Sorry I didn't word it clearly.
Van man this what I use with copper or steel rings. Never had a problem.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0727RY8FC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0727RY8FC&pd_rd_w=DClon&pf_rd_p=f0355a48-7e73-489a-9590-564e12837b93&pd_rd_wg=gmv36&pf_rd_r=ZAR982B7WNQ7HNKMFP3C&pd_rd_r=2562a8f8-f95c-4795-b7e8-50863f0987e3&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSlhYRUpHUVlQMkYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA5ODE0MjYxMjVXTUlZUjRDQ0pWJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0MDk1MjIxWjFFRE01WFlWOEMyJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
I have used both but prefer the Zurn for the ease of crimping,now they have combo tools to do different sizes of pipe with rings.the Zurn one tool does it all ,the price of the Zurn tool is more exspensive though
I thought the expander was more expensive.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on September 15, 2020, 12:23:54 PM
I thought the expander was more expensive.
Jim
I have a hand operated expander the price was less than a 100 bucks my Zurn crimper was almost twice that ,I have never found a use for the expander yet,I am sure there is or they wouldn't sell the gizmo
all the plumbers here like the wirsbo pex pipe with the expanded plastic type rings . but I find that you can only get the parts from the wholesale plumbing stores and none of them are open on weekends . so that is why I like the copper crimp rings and tool as you can get parts almost anywhere and on the weekends as well.
Dave I started using the crimper you showed but found that that style crimper is very hard to get into tight places and has a wider swing to open the jaws as well . then I broke down and bought the angle head type and way back when the price was crazy expensive but not now they are cheap
dave
Well, the 5200 worked wonders and Flojet is working again. The noise is an issue so put the pump in a metal ammo can and filled with expanding foam from can. Sorry to say it did make a difference but still more noise than desired.
Couple options - cover box in dense soundproof material or move the pump to a shielded place in the bus or buy a new really quiet pump. The bladder device may lower the amount of cycling but it's got to run to build up pressure so no path that route.
Couple of thoughts...
- Is it the noise itself or perhaps vibration still getting through?
- Perhaps the spray foam was too hard and just transfers the noise/vibration from the pump to the outer ammo can, turning the ammo can into an poorly tuned percussion instrument?
- Instead of the spray foam, perhaps something more absorbent to sound & vibration like a softer foam rubber?
yeah, thats not a good combo to reduce noise sufficiently. mounting to a plate with cushion under attachments, then plate has cushioned mounts, then cover with soft foan with eggcrate pattern, along with flexible lines right at pump inlet and outlet. you could lead line what you already have. but former would be much better
Personally I like being able to hear the pump, it tells me if I'm losing water anywhere.
Jim
those noisey roof airs will hide pump noise anyway...
those noisey roof airs will hide pump noise anyway...
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 17, 2020, 07:47:58 AM
those noisey roof airs will hide pump noise anyway...
yup not muck that makes more noise then the roof shakers
dave
Don fill the can with flex seal they say it can do anything, LOL ;)
I checked the sound level on my roof airs CC did a good job 55.1 all 3 on high and 48.4 with all 3 on low,when you pull the panel off the ceiling to clean the filters it goes up to 79.9
OK, Clifford, I give up. What the hell is inside the AC covers? Sure works for knocking down noise.
Temporarily fixed the problem, fixed the stereo and keep the volume up. What water pump? LOL
Quote from: windtrader on September 18, 2020, 10:57:12 AM
OK, Clifford, I give up. What the hell is inside the AC covers? Sure works for knocking down noise.
Temporarily fixed the problem, fixed the stereo and keep the volume up. What water pump? LOL
Just the way it's ducted Don lol and you don't hear my water pump even with roof tops off,some said the roof tops would drown out the pump so I decided to check it out for my self
Hey, are those the puck lights you were going to take out and give to me? They look just fine, I wouldn't blame you if you decided to keep them. ;)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on September 18, 2020, 08:12:55 PM
Hey, are those the puck lights you were going to take out and give to me? They look just fine, I wouldn't blame you if you decided to keep them. ;)
Those are the new LED's Walter your 60 is in a box in the shop
I sent you a PM with the address, thanks.
Quote from: dtcerrato on September 14, 2020, 07:01:51 PM
Recently on our fresh water system we added a 12 vdc bypass solenoid with a programmable timer on it so when you turn on hot water in the shower instead of it going down the drain while waiting for it to warm the solenoid diverts it back to the fresh water holding tank fot an interval of time you set it for then when the solenoid deactivates water at the shower head the temp you want it.
A collapsible bucket work for us, when boondocking, use water to flush toilet.
So thats where the claw foot tub is? :) It must drop down from that ceiling panel. Awesome 8)
;D
That would explain why that rig is so heavy.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on September 18, 2020, 09:45:13 PM
So thats where the claw foot tub is? :) It must drop down from that ceiling panel. Awesome 8)
No Dave that tub has been Deported to Canada, it's their problem now lol! ;D ;D
Never More! 8)
:^
It's Yvan problem now and Sylive kinda likes that tub it may not leave the bus ;D