I anyone heard of a placing a fan on the air filter for climbing hills?
I temporary switch for needed extra air for when climbing or at high altitude.
Thanks
Rick
How big of fan are you thinking about(cfm). Is this fan also going to provide a pressure boost? How will you provide extra fuel for the extra air you are introducing into the cylinders? If it does not provide enough cfm and boost it will just impede needed air flow and you will loose performance.
An electric motor that is big enough to provide needed cfm and boost will draw a lot of current from your charging system. The power needed to support the electric motor will be greater than the added performance gain.
Matt
It is good to think outside of the box.
I see this as a density issue and a fan would not be able to compress the air into the cylinder.
So in my opinion it wouldn't help.
John
Quote from: Jriddle on September 07, 2020, 02:22:24 PM
It is good to think outside of the box.
I see this as a density issue and a fan would not be able to compress the air into the cylinder.
So in my opinion it wouldn't help.
John
It all about density and fuel to air ratio a electric fan is not going to help you
Part-time electric superchargers for commercial vehicles have been a thing for a while I believe. Here's a random article about them from Google:
http://www.transportengineer.org.uk/transport-engineer-news/novel-electric-supercharger-aimed-at-truck-and-bus-diesel-downsizing/64932 (http://www.transportengineer.org.uk/transport-engineer-news/novel-electric-supercharger-aimed-at-truck-and-bus-diesel-downsizing/64932)
Jeremy
There is NO free lunch.>>>Dan
Anyone change the blower to the high speed gears?
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 07, 2020, 05:03:56 PM
Anyone change the blower to the high speed gears?
N/A engines have a higher speed blower than the turbo engine, it take 37 hp on a 8V71 to turn the blower at 2100 rpm fwiw,that is why the bypass blower is popular on turbo equipped Detroits once going the turbo does the work
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on September 07, 2020, 03:37:27 PM
There is NO free lunch.>>>Dan
I don't think anyone is claiming that there is anything 'Free' about it, just people looking for a way of boosting the engine power output for short periods. Kinda similar in principle to using water injection or even nitrous oxide on a petrol engine - you can't do it continuously, but for short periods it's proven technology
Jeremy
You didn't mention propane injection...
Is propane injection on diesels used in this kind of way (getting up hills faster etc)? I thought it ran continuously and was more an emissions-reduction thing.
Jeremy
Propane is can be a power adder to a diesel just as nitrous is to a gas engine. Any time you add power you also add heat. Pull the length of Baker grade in the summer on propane, or using any other method to add power will really test your coolimg system.
Matt
I made mention of propane because prior to our recent in-frame the 671 was getting really tired. Well during our first Alaska road trip From Florida I have to say that the DIY propane injection system was a world of help. As far as going faster or more power it's really not that cut & dry. I will say on those pesky lloonngg slight grades & especially mixed in with a head wind - that's where the propane was a great help. Probably saved a gear downshift lots of times but never really felt it at the seat of the pants. In an earlier post Clifford mentioned that I was wasting my time installing pyrometers in a 671 - well his statement was very true. I was nervous about the injection system so I installed dual pyrometers - one in each dual exhaust manifold. On that 12,500 mile round trip - had lots of time to play with it on & off. It made absolutely no difference in EGTs with or without propane injection - hills or flat. 950 degrees is where it usually topped off at but we're talking a purely stock 671. If it were to produce more than the 200+ HP we run then the EGTs may climb a little - I really don't know. The fact is when propane in being injected the diesel is tapered back by the governor so there is truly no added heat build up. At that point I figured the pyrometers were worth it just to iron out those unknowns. On the more recent 2nd AK road trip we didn't use the propane injection because after the in-frame the engine seemed to have "woke up" but we still have the system intact & would use it if the need arose. I guess we were (are) being conservative with a really good strong running 671... It was a really exciting experiment if nothing else...
It's a turtle but a dependable one that'll get ya there all the time and sometimes we can literally smell the roses as they go by so slowly... ;)
Excellent write up dtc!
The issue is available air to mix with whatever fuel is in the cylinder.
All the air is handily used by the diesel, which has more btu than propane, any smoke indicates that all the air got used, and there was fuel left over.
A busnut after more power, needs to find more air.
The fuel part is the easier job.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Does anyone remember the cat show where the guys tried to supercharge a car with gas powered 200mph leaf blowers.
I think they put 4 or 5 of them on there.
uncle ned
4 or 5 leaf blowers...hmm maybe hook them up to the solar panels and look for a hill on a sunny day.😂
Quote from: buswarrior on September 08, 2020, 06:22:07 PM
Excellent write up dtc!
The issue is available air to mix with whatever fuel is in the cylinder.
All the air is handily used by the diesel, which has more btu than propane, any smoke indicates that all the air got used, and there was fuel left over.
A busnut after more power, needs to find more air.
The fuel part is the easier job.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Thanks BW
One other thing that I remember about diesel injection when you said diesel has more btu than propane - was that the propane probably ignites faster thus allowing a more complete burn (besides combustion) of the diesel.
And another point I need to make is while on that lloonngg hill in a head wind in maybe the next higher gear & if not all the way up at least farther up before a downshift so as not to lug... there is truly less (if any) smoke!
Scott Crosby is the author of this DIY propane injection. I had the advantage along with pyrometer monitoring over long distance to play & learn a lot at a total price tag for the injection system of under $50 (not including the dual pyrometers & gauge of coarse)
Could be if you doubled the amount of propane injected, there would be more benefit. Were you using gas or liquid injection?
I installed a propane injection kit that was $625 way back in 2011 or so and as Dan it never would lift the front wheels off the ground but yes it made a difference on the hills and I could adjust the amount and the pressure it would start up and run . this was on the 6v92ta on the mci
I kept the kit but I do not need it on the cat as it has no problem doing a wheelie
http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/
dave
Propane will take a toll on the 2 stroke engines,a tired and wore out engine it is ok to use a little I would never use it on a good engine,Scotts setup has been around since the 70's when No 1 fuel was on the way out he just copied the system.HEB in Texas had it on all their 6500 GMC trucks with the 238 hp 6L-71 engines it came and went
We injected vapor from a bbq tank using a 12V solenoid at the intake before the blower. using an acetylene regulator to choose the pressure wanted through a 1/8" orifice. We were using 11psi which dropped to 7psi while flowing - hardly any flow to speak of sooo if one wanted to jack it up I'm sure you could get all kinds of results.
The blower on a GM 2 stroke diesel is designed to blow a substantial amount of air right through the combustion chamber when the piston is near BDC in order to evacuate all the exhaust gases. That is how the combustion chamber is cleared before the piston reaches TDC. The combustion chamber needs to be full of fresh air by the time the piston reaches TDC.
If you injected propane into the intake air stream, some of that propane is going to blow right through the engine without being burned. This doesn't happen with diesel fuel because the injection event occurs near TDC, nowhere near when the blower is clearing out the combustion chamber.