When I travel, I like having a nav system going. And a CB radio. I'd like to use a 10 inch tablet for the nav system.
Where and how does one put a CB radio and tablet in an E/J driver station ? Prevosts conversions have a lot more space open on the right side of the dash.
BTW, how is the comfort for tall people ? I'm 6'1". Does the seat go far enough back ? Does the steering wheel have enough travel ?
The 2018 dash isn't much better. They relocated a lot of switches to the arm rest, but still not a lot of room to add electronics.
Here is a stock 2006 Prevost H3 45 driver station. I guess it isn't much larger than the E/J station. The converters add a side piece to the dash to accommodate driving electronics.
Another one.
You do realize that the vast majority of us are driving coaches where the 'computer' system is still a bank of relays and the nav system is stuck to the glass with suction cup, right?
Quote from: richard5933 on August 26, 2020, 04:21:44 AM
You do realize that the vast majority of us are driving coaches where the 'computer' system is still a bank of relays and the nav system is stuck to the glass with suction cup, right?
I didn't know this board was limited to pre 1990 buses. I thought it was open to discuss any year/model of bus.
Quote from: someguy on August 26, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
I didn't know this board was limited to pre 1990 buses. I thought it was open to discuss any year/model of bus.
That wasn't my point at all. Everyone is of course welcome.
I was trying to point out that you're posting photos of some really great looking new(er) coaches asking where to mount driving electronics to a group largely made up of people with much older coaches. The question is certainly welcome - my post was to give a point of reference regarding where many people are that will be seeing your question.
All that said, there are some great custom dash installs going into older buses. There are absolutely no limitations on where to mount things other than your creativity and budget.
Quote from: richard5933 on August 26, 2020, 09:36:24 AM
That wasn't my point at all. Everyone is of course welcome.
I was trying to point out that you're posting photos of some really great looking new(er) coaches asking where to mount driving electronics to a group largely made up of people with much older coaches. The question is certainly welcome - my post was to give a point of reference regarding where many people are that will be seeing your question.
:^ Well said, and true. :^
The dash in a 102E is pretty much the same as a modern J.
Where are people mounting their electronics in their older coaches ?
What ideas do people with older coaches have for working with the E4500 dash ?
My best ideas right now is to strip out the audio head units in the right dash space, move the switch panel down to where the head units were and put the tablet where the upper switch panel was. Either that or mount it standing up on top of the right side of the dash. Hopefully it won't interfere with driving visibility.
The issue of where to mount electronics is kinda non essential right now to buying my bus, but yet I'd like something figured out for the long drive home if I buy the one I think I might.
I've been noodling (off and on) on the same question for my J.
I'm contemplating a couple of options:
1. A mount that brings a device (or devices) down in front of the switches on the right side, but that swings up out of the way when I need to access those switches. This would probably include relocating some switches to eliminate the need to do that while driving.
2. A mount that puts a device (or devices) to the right of the dash (basically extending the line of the dash further around), but that swings out of the way for people getting on/off and getting into/out of the driver's seat.
Those two options would be for anything large (tablet, etc.)
For smaller things (TPMS, Leveler controls, etc.) my goal is to re-use dash space for things I don't have anymore (OTR climate control, etc.). I will also have to re-align some switches for this as well.
My approach is: What switches can be eliminated? How can the remaining switches be reorganized for space saving and efficient access? What space does that leave? What all needs to be on the dash itself (i.e. line of sight) vs what can be off to the left? After all that is settled, what do I need to add?
However, I'm not spending a ton of time on it just yet. When I put the camera system in, I will do something temporary. Other than that, I have much bigger critters to skin first...
I know we are talking about buses here but look at a Newell dash,lol it is a poor lowly RV but has a beautiful dash
Check out this guy's YouTube channel. He's been putting a lot of work into modernizing the gauges and other electronics on his GM 4106. Last I looked his unit was on a swivel so that both he and his co-pilot could view.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WtcGAtbh6DgBAW5ckFtgQ
One thought that I have is to remember your co-pilot needs to have access to the nav system while underway. I've got a Garmin dezl 785 which is mounted on the windshield. The new Garmin mount is magnetic, and having the ability to easily pull it from its mount and hand the unit to my co-pilot is a must for any GPS going forward. So much easier (and safer) to have the co-pilot make route revisions while underway. I'd suggest your co-pilot have access to the sound system as well.
If you're going to use a built-in mount for the nav system, keep in mind that it should be replaceable as technology and software change. No point making something permanent which will be outdated in just a few years.
If you're going to use the tablet for gauges, be sure to keep a few traditional gauges in place. You want to have your oil pressure, air pressure, and engine temp functional at all times. Having to wait for your tablet to re-boot when there is an issue (and there will be) can create all kinds of problems since this always happens at the worst possible time.
I use Ram mounts for electronics. You have this rubber coated knob that attaches to dash. Some of the mounts attach to windshield.They sell different length arms that attach and allow full swivel and angle with thumb knobs to tighten settings when you put it at the position that suits. They also make cell, tablet, gps mounts that then attach to the arms. They don't vibrate out of position either. Great items. Been using them for several years. Suction mounts suck! Sooner or later they allow your electronics to drop to the floor.
https://www.rammount.com
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 26, 2020, 12:53:28 PM
I use Ram mounts for electronics. ...Suction mounts suck! Sooner or later they allow your electronics to drop to the floor.
https://www.rammount.com
I've been using their X-Grip mount which suction cups to the windshield to hold my large smartphone. It holds steady and doesn't move, even with the cab of the truck bouncing all over the place. First suction cup mount I've seen that stayed put.
When driving the newer coaches J's H's Xl's I mount my 7" GPS low on the windshield directly in front of me so my eyes are always focused forward. I use the Maxx mount.
https://maxxmount.com/shop/automobile-mount-mini-tablet
I talk to mine and it talks back, it is mounted on my right but I never look at I just follow directions,I kinda like the guy he listens better than the passenger
Quote from: luvrbus on August 26, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
I talk to mine and it talks back, it is mounted on my right but I never look at I just follow directions,I kinda like the guy he listens better than the passenger
Right! We know where you get your directions from LOL! ;) ;D
Thanks for the ideas.
I also have the holder for my Samsung 10 tablet and x mounts for phones.
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 26, 2020, 04:11:52 PM
I also have the holder for my Samsung 10 tablet and x mounts for phones.
I don't have mounts for the phone I guess I should buy one,the phone is connected to the Pioneer through Bluetooth and sometimes I forget where I left the friggn phone
I would be inclined to tear the top right off the dash in an E or J.
Way too tall, compared to the best of the older coaches. The driver doesn't see the ground nearly as close to the coach.
There's no way there was a driver or qualified road safety ergonomist involved in that driver station execution.
Side mirrors are way up there so far that another convex mirror has to be mounted to the bottom bolt of the fancy powered mirror head.
A small cross-over mirror was added to the curb side mirror arm by MCI to try and defend their liability for the poor sightline to the area in front of the bumper.
I mount a gps to the left of the driver, bottom of the fixed side glass, with the mirror arm being blocked behind it. A more discreet/subtle location for keeping the "business" out of the passenger's sight.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Wow this modernization topic is just starting to creep down into the bus space!!
In the aviation space, people who build home aircraft in their home garages; are talking about replacing $60,000.00 plus of panel electronics (they want the option of drilling their way through clouds and popping out at the other end safely) with some good sensors and a iPad; that they insert into the dash when needed, with maybe a total expenditure of $6,000.00. (Some of them are talking under $1,000.00 mark.)
I also have been following the channel "This old bus" and while he used recently used the label "Tesla" which hey I happened to own one each of (P85); that I brought for my sixty birthday (it's totally paid off now and will be the last new car that I will buy and hey 0-60 in four seconds, so I can let my inter demon out at anytime!!!).
In reference to Tesla; he was simply talking about an android audio entertainment system that could do a video movie besides acting as his smart dash.
Like we need to spend that much time and effort for the the in movement phase of travel; where we need to entertain the co-pilot or significant other.
Anyway things as simple as the telemetry that we need for our buses when they are in movement is going to be more and more a simple plug and play solution. Where on the average for each information element we need is going be less spending han we do while pounding down some nice booze in the process of socialize with long term friends.
However the total underlying thrust of his reason for starting the electronic display exercise on his YouTube channel; wasn't to have a gee-wise display; but was to have the aw-$#!% alerting display of trends that we expect to today as ordinary users of driving a vehicle; that would be prevention of major repair events and impacts on our wallet...
However, IMHO he is not their yet, it needs more software!!!
The key point about software is that not everyone can do a good job of it (it takes a slightly non-social myopic focused mindset, support your local nerd!!!).
However if that someone who can does share their efforts, it can be replicated numerous times and while not every implementation you find is a one to one match to what you need, it can be adapted or can spark ideas for a more comprehensive solution.
Anyway back to "This Old Bus" in his current implementation he just has the ability to switch from the old steam gauge presentation (aviation term) to an electronic visual display and can do a manually switched comparison between the two.
Truth to tell I am very much back seat quarter backing here, but hey maybe the steam gauges should have 90% of the display time with the electronic trend monitoring doing the other 10% off of the physical sensors.
I actually think there should be a thread where we visit semi-truck salvage yards for CAN based sensors that are at least ten years old to modernized our in movement driving experience!!!
CAN based messaging requires about four wires front to back for a message bus, to do everything that we need... So, hey Kenworth, Mack trucks or others, what fits best for what we need?
Anyway jumping off of the soap box, in my case I am still trying to figure out which additional wires (beyond the documented bus wiring backbone) go where in my 40 year old bus; so, that I can reuse them to get my desired functionality that I can live with for the next 15 years.
I too think that we should be hacking the CAN bus in these vehicles and reusing existing sensors. I think the Vansco Multiplex system is an asset because it supports this kind of development.
The Multiplexed E/J buses have a lot of wire in them but it is remarkably simple for everything that it accomplishes.
On this same topic, it appears to me that someone has completely replaced the instruments in the dash of a 2002 102 in the picture below.
The great thing about CAN Bus and J1939 is that things just work if they recognize the messages on the bus. And if they don't, it isn't too hard to build an Arduino to convert them from one message format to another if you know the message formats needed.
Theoretically the manufacturers should be using the same message formats for the common data on these vehicles. I have no idea if they do or not, but a lot of things like ABS controllers, transmission controllers, shift levers and ECMs seem to be able to talk to each other seamlessly without having special versions of everything to work with each other.
oops... I guess that is a standard dash in a 102 EL3.
Quote from: someguy on August 26, 2020, 10:25:05 PM
oops... I guess that is a standard dash in a 102 EL3.
Well heck, maybe time for smart glasses with a heads up display for hidden rockets on the roof LOL!!!
Determining where the wires go is easy with a wire tracer. Harbor Freight sells one and it works quite well. Some time can be saved if it is used along with a wiring diagram