Why do RVs need separate grey and black water tanks ? Does your coach have separate tanks ?
I know new airstreams the most expensive ones have one tank because they have macerater toilets and seeing everything is liquid only have one big tank and one freshwater tank. Not sure whether new rvs have followed their example yet
Combined tanks were quite common at one point early in the RV industry. Then everything had split systems. Now I'm seeing combined tanks again.
Both our first bus and our current one had combined gray/black tanks. Never had an issue with the setup. Our current setup is side-by-side fresh and waste tanks, each 90 gallons in size. We operate off the fresh tank with our onboard pump, even when in a campground. Makes it easy to ensure that we never overflow our waste tank.
Having a combined waste tank makes dumping quick and easy, even through the 2" discharge port on our tank. The contents are always well liquefied and we've yet to have a clog. No macerating toilet on ours, but the end result is about the same especially after driving a few miles with the tank partially full.
In my estimation, the only time separate tanks would be helpful is if you plan to dry camp frequently in areas where it's possible/legal to dump the gray water to the ground in some fashion. That seems more common in the West and Southwest, much less so east of the Mississippi.
I've yet to see places where one must dump gray & black separately, but I have heard of some that will covertly dump their gray water into sewer drains or while driving. Not recommended in my opinion.
For some, installing separate gray/black might make it easier to maximize available space, but from what I've seen it's usually possible to do this with a combined tank as well. There is also far less plumbing with a combined tank.
If you are planning to camp in an area where dumping to the ground is possible, I would suggest simply plumbing the shower & sink through a diverter on the way to the waste tank. When you want to dump to the ground, switch the diverter valve and have the gray waste go through the plumbing directly out.
A common practice with twin tanks is to use the gray to rinse out the black piping after dumping.. I have had both and like the twin setup..>>>Dan
They both have advantages and disadvantages separate tanks work better for camping since gray water tanks use more water and fill faster and most places in the desert let you dump the gray water,Fresh water is what you worry about boondocking I have seen people in Quartzsite camp for months but they were always carrying water in jugs ,I have had both and prefer the 2 tanks system macerator equipped toilets are a real pain to maintain and parts are exspensive for one
Thanks for the replies.
I've never heard of campsites that would allow one to dump grey water (on the ground ?) but not black water.
It certainly would eliminate a lot of plumbing to have one tank for everything.
Quote from: someguy on August 13, 2020, 11:37:11 AM
I've never heard of campsites that would allow one to dump grey water (on the ground ?)
I.
Have you ever been to the desert?
Quote from: usbusin on August 13, 2020, 11:45:36 AM
Have you ever been to the desert?
Never camped there, no. I'm glad I asked about this.
Many high mountain areas also allow it in remote unimproved spots..>>>Dan
Ours is black and fresh only, works fine, keeps us out of trouble with overflowing anything.
I have considered having a diverter valve for the sinks / shower to rain directly to the ground in remote boondocking situations .
Here is my take on grey water. Is it bad to wash your hands or dishes outside on a table and dump the water to ground? I see no problem. Now what if you use a bigger bucket and collect the water and dump every few days. Now what if that bucket was a tank .... you see where this is going. Just my $.02 Scale shouldn't change it, at least the scale we do it.
I have had both grey/black and separate grey and black. The combination G/B built up more volume and emptied quicker, but when it overflowed into the shower it was quite unpleasant.
The seperate tanks take longer to empty, but if you empty them in the right order, you can back wash the black tank with grey water, eliminating dry caking buildup and put some water back into the black tank with you deodorizer/anti caking chemicals to swish around and cleanout the black tank on the way back home, without using clear water...vertical shaped tanks are always more efficient at getting very ounce out, lvmci...
Quote from: neoneddy on August 13, 2020, 01:44:06 PM
...Here is my take on grey water. Is it bad to wash your hands or dishes outside on a table and dump the water to ground? I see no problem. Now what if you use a bigger bucket and collect the water and dump every few days. Now what if that bucket was a tank .... you see where this is going. Just my $.02 Scale shouldn't change it, at least the scale we do it.
There can be lots of nasties in gray water, especially coming from the shower/bath. Fecal matter, body fluids, etc. can make for some really powerful stuff if left to ferment in the heat in a tank for a while. My reading shows that besides fecal matter, there can be bacteria, viruses, and other pathogens in the gray water. I'm no biologist so I can't make a statement regarding the safety of dumping gray water to the ground, but I'm sure that a case could be made either way.
QuoteThere can be lots of nasties in gray water, especially coming from the shower/bath. Fecal matter, body fluids, etc. can make for some really powerful stuff if left to ferment in the heat in a tank for a while.
is there anything wrong with using a tent outdoor shower? Same thing. Sure it doesn't sit in a tank, but if you dump directly to the ground with a diverter valve I see no difference.
Quote
My reading shows that besides fecal matter, there can be bacteria, viruses, and other pathogens in the gray water.
I've heard the same about lakes in general. Be careful going down tubing / floating rivers on the weekends :-)
The discussion needs to be whether the local authorities will allow gray water to be dumped to the ground...
All the justification and explanation, right or wrong matters not if the ticket book comes out.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
My first camper had a macerator toilet. Worked fine until it
Didnt and i had to fix it. That was45 years ago and at that time I promised myself i would NEVER have another-a promise im proud to say ive kept. Im sure that macerator toilets have
Improved over the years but the contents are still the same.
Thanks but no thanks. :)
I'd agree that a macerator toilet can add needless complications. But, having a combined gray/black tank does not require a macerator.
I have had both setups. My current bus has one tank but does have a bypass for the gray water. I have used it lots of times that way. I run a hose from the discharge to a nearby bush, which usually appreciated it (I think). Now if you were to let the water just pour onto the ground and puddle, it would be a different story.
Also, when we do it the water is going right from the faucet to the bush. If it were sitting in a tank and putrefying, that would not be pleasant.
I built my setup with a 100 gal graywater and 50 gal blackwater. I have a 100 gal freshwater tank also.
When I started the conversion I had 4 kids at home(3 girls). I know have one, because I am a slooooooowwww bus converter.
My intention was to be able to dry camp for a week or so. I now know that with 3 girls that would be near impossible.
I also designed an overflow from the gray water to the black water tank, fitted with a one way valve, in case the gray water fills before I can dump. I think it would take more than a week to fill the black water.
At least it gives me options if I can't dump the gray on the gound, and more time to get to a dump station, or fill a portable disposal tank.
Steve Toomey
Quote from: Lin on August 13, 2020, 05:53:54 PM
I have had both setups. My current bus has one tank but does have a bypass for the gray water. I have used it lots of times that way. I run a hose from the discharge to a nearby bush, which usually appreciated it (I think). Now if you were to let the water just pour onto the ground and puddle, it would be a different story.
Also, when we do it the water is going right from the faucet to the bush. If it were sitting in a tank and putrefying, that would not be pleasant.
I like this idea. It has the advantage of using one tank for both grey/black so it will mix up and flush better so there is less chance of solids building up in the bottom of the tank which is a problem for some people. I had one each 250 gallon fresh water and one 250 gallon grey/black water tank in my MC-7. I could go a month without filling/dumping with this setup and I hate having to dump so this worked well with me. The only problem was that it took a while to fill the tank and you can hold up the line in a dump station, so frequently I could not fill it all the way. I did not have a grey water diverter for when boondocking, but I would have that on my next bus if/when I build my next bus.
I will stick to the two tank system. The way I set it up two 90 gal tanks offset, 4 in dump off black tank, gray tank dumps into the back side of black tank (electric valves). Dump black first then rinse with gray. The tanks are tied together at top for over flow, no one way valve, in ten years never came close to fill black tank, twice over filled gray. With our system we gone three weeks.
The gray water tank will always get full first. No real way around that except to drain it to the ground. By far the largest contaminants of gray water are phosphates. Soaps and detergents in other words. What little dirt and such is included is far in the minority. But, so is the soap in proportion to the water which is why the environmental impact is usually minimal. Far less of an influence in the rainy east than it would be in the desert for instance because the normal rainfall will dilute it even further and existing organisms will happily and quickly break down anything in the water. It's not even remotely close to the contamination level from a black water spill, and even that will be quickly neutralized if it is not chronic. Plus, the gray water quickly goes away. It is possible of course to make a nuisance of yourself, and if you do that you have nobody to blame if an authority figure shows up with his ticket book. But it's just as easy to avoid being a nuisance and have that same authority figure give you a pass. Your level of effort should be commensurate with your perceived threat level. If NOBODY in the area EVER dumps gray water maybe you shouldn't either. And I've heard that in some parks out west that is the condition. But I've never heard of that around here.
I like both G and B tanks for the flexibility. If the G water can be dumped it means the fresh tank can greatly exceed both the waste tanks for extended boondocking and the B tank becomes the limitation if there is enough fresh water. But I plan to run the bathroom sink into the B tank as it is on the same side of the bus. It's possible I may consider running a washing machine discharge there as well. But the shower and kitchen will go to the G tank, which discharges through the B tank when dumping. I hadn't considered overflowing the G tank into the B but that is worth thinking about.
One thing I would certainly not like would be the possibility of overflowing a combined tank into the shower. That's just too nasty to even consider.
Jim
I have a 130gal fresh, 85gal gray, 45gal black. The gray always gets filled first. I have a street dump on the passenger side. just pull up to a street drain and dump it-or like others said in the desert. My truck has 200gal fresh, 115gal gray, 69gal black. I can dump my gray through the black to rinse. I'll always have separate. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on August 16, 2020, 09:43:01 PM
I have a 130gal fresh, 85gal gray, 45gal black. The gray always gets filled first. I have a street dump on the passenger side. just pull up to a street drain and dump it
Is it legal to dump grey water down down a street drain ? Don't street drains carry rainwater and runoff, which is supposed to be clean ?
I guess it matters what it says on the drain cover! The word sewer rings a bell!
Quote from: someguy on August 16, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
Is it legal to dump grey water down down a street drain ? Don't street drains carry rainwater and runoff, which is supposed to be clean ?
Generally speaking, in most parts of the country NO.
What people are discussing dumping here (gray water) is NOT clean. If it is, then just pump it back into your freshwater tank and use it again. It's contaminated - not to the extent of black water for sure, but it's contaminated with all sorts of things.
Storm sewers and street drains usually drain into a body of surface water, like nearby streams and creeks. Dumping anything into them is usually illegal. Even were we are camping right now in the northern part of Wisconsin I noticed that it's molded right into the street drain covers "no dumping".
Many (most?) states have regulations on dumping things like phosphates, cleaning solutions, etc. into the surface water system.
What's being discussed used to be common. Our bus was built with a pneumatic dump valve that exits about a foot in from the curb side of the bus. I'm told that the original owner had a floor drain he dumped into at his shop. My suspicion is that he had many more of them along the route he used covertly.
It's amazing to me that we, the generation that watched rivers catch fire not too many years ago, is having this conversation. Don't flame me - I know that there is a difference between dumping industrial waste and shower water. But, this whole thing is about being responsible and stepping up to handle our own mess without creating a burden for others.
Storm sewers do carry off some nasty stuff after a rain and all ends in the ocean sooner or later ,I really don't know of anyplace it would be legally allowed,the EPA controls storm sewers.if you think about the crap that washes from your lawn and drive ways it's probably worse than gray water though plus the dead animals,oil bleeding from asphalt and other things.Storm sewers are nasty.I spent big bucks protecting storm sewers from run off at Walmart sites under construction and after a rain fill out a report and send it to the EPA.Gray water can you see in your mind the crap in W/M and shopping centers parking lots that drain into storm sewers it's not pretty
My first Eagle Coach was set up very similar to Richard's after I had toured Custom Coach in Columbus and saw how they did things (two 100 hundred gallon tanks), and has worked just fine. Back in the dark days of owning a RV, one of the last ones I had was previously owned by the owner of an auto parts company that toured every state and Mexico & Canada demonstrating his products. It had modest sized tanks, but it also had a custom crafted wire and pulley system that was operated from the drivers seat that allowed the sewer tank to be cracked open while going down the road. When it was convenient, like during a rainstorm, he would dump away. It's not quite as bad as that driver of the Entertainer bus that opened up the valve while going over a bridge in Chicago and dumping on a sightseeing boat down below, but it still stinks. :o
You need to read the regulations on what ships and boats can dump in the ocean,lakes and water ways
Quote from: luvrbus on August 17, 2020, 05:38:21 AM
Storm sewers do carry off some nasty stuff after a rain and all ends in the ocean sooner or later ...
But Ma, all the other kids were doing it...
No doubt what you're saying is true. But, I didn't think the question is "Do others do it?", or "Are there are worse things going into the surface water?" I thought the question is "Should we be doing it?"
Milwaukee has an older storm sewer system which is a total mess - all the street sewers go through the sewage treatment plant. Many older homes in Milwaukee also have their downspouts connected to the sewer system. The original purpose was to prevent things like you describe, like street runoff and parking lot debris, from entering Lake Michigan. Since we get our drinking water from Lake Michigan, it seemed like a good idea.
Eventually the system got overwhelmed and they started to have to have bypass times during heavy storms. Now they've started the process of disconnecting downspouts from the sewer system.
For an intelligent species, it strikes me as odd that we so freely piss and crap almost directly into our drinking water supply, and then sit back and wonder why people get sick.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 17, 2020, 06:12:34 AM
You need to read the regulations on what ships and boats can dump in the ocean,lakes and water ways
And how far out do they need to be from shore to do that?
There is a stark difference between a storm sewer & a sanitary sewer and are usually plainly marked even sometimes with international symbols (ie: a "fish" pictured on the cover plate means it ends up straight into the local water source).
It is perfectly legal (most of the time but contingent on local ordinances) to dump sewage into a sanitary sewer drain.
It's no different than hooking a macerator pump up to our black tank slide valve & pumping into a toilet.
Art Carney was my favorite & to add to that Dad was superintendent to municipal water & sewer departments in South Florida after retiring from the northeast refinery - ESSO. :)
We're confident through Richard's dialog that he is (as hopefully most of us)
responsible for doing the "right" thing - Especially after picturing an auto - dump valve in his Country Coach plumbing!
https://bfplumbingbayarea.com/blog/storm-drain-vs-sewer-system/
Remember the exhaust system ejection system?
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/never-need-to-dump-again-128137.html
Quote from: dtcerrato on August 17, 2020, 09:27:42 AM
There is a stark difference between a storm sewer & a sanitary sewer and are usually plainly marked even sometimes with international symbols (ie: a "fish" pictured on the cover plate means it ends up straight into the local water source).
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Milwaukee uses a combined system - everything goes to the sanitary sewer system. We live outside the city on septic - here all the street drains go directly to the surface water, which eventually becomes drinking water when it gets back to Lake Michigan (or percolates to the water table my well taps).
Either way, seems a good idea to keep dirty shower water out of the surface water. Can't think of it ever being necessary... You've got to go refill the fresh water and dump the black tank eventually. Just dump the gray with it.
Just do the right thing - dump the tanks at proper facilities and do not put any drain from gray to ground, only to black. Of course, in a true emergency, do what you need to do. My "emergency" procedure is to open the gray into the black just a bit, so we stay operational a bit longer. Then get to a dump station asap.
When we lived in Colorado Springs, Colorado we noticed at most major outside public lawn areas like the colleges, golf courses, Air force Academy, there were signs that said watered with non-Potable water, not for human consumption. They recycle water from storm drains, flash flood holding areas etc.
When I asked a guy pumping out our septic tank where they dump it. He told me they go out to the eastern plain fields about 5 miles from town and just dump while driving through the fields. He said all pathogens are dead from the suns UV rays within 24 hours. Some of the farmers use it for their fields turn it in with tillers after it has sat for 2 days and use it for compost...Eeewwww
Dave - Man, that is over now it is understood just what people dump in the drain. And nobody wants that crap in compost that gets back into the food chain where we lap it up the toxins, chemical, and start glowing like aliens. lol
Proper non-potable water recycling is practiced in some places like golf courses. But the purple pipe water is still treated, just to lower standards.
My son works in public works water treatment and talks of the most recent rollout of treated recycled water for drinking. That's a lot bigger step but it is inevitable it is the future as global warming increasingly affects our water supply.
As I understand it, Palm Springs and the surrounding areas water their golf courses with gray water.
It is treated for such use, not gray (untreated) by any means. It is all processed through the plants and sent out via purple pipe. No way is it untreated. There may be other methods for gray water reuse but that is something totally different.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 17, 2020, 06:12:34 AM
You need to read the regulations on what ships and boats can dump in the ocean,lakes and water ways
I think the rule on boats is that if you are 3 miles or more offshore, you can dump your tanks. If you can do the same with your bus, I believe that would be okay.
Just remember to close your valve before you head into port. ;D
Quote from: windtrader on August 17, 2020, 10:50:36 AM
Dave - Man, that is over now it is understood just what people dump in the drain. And nobody wants that crap in compost that gets back into the food chain where we lap it up the toxins, chemical, and start glowing like aliens. lol
Windy not from the drains re-read post from pumping out septic s. :)
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on August 17, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
I think the rule on boats is that if you are 3 miles or more offshore, you can dump your tanks. If you can do the same with your bus, I believe that would be okay.
Just remember to close your valve before you head into port. ;D
Agree our Buses are one piece on the bottom right? so they must float right? ;)
Quote from: Dave5Cs on August 17, 2020, 11:01:40 AM
Windy not from the drains re-read post from pumping out septic s. :)
Ah, even worse. In CO today, that'd get you put in the slammer for a long time.
Does a bear sh!t in the woods? Deer? How about fish and frogs and nastier aquatic creatures? Industrial chemicals that never die? (I've heard DDT is making a comeback) Given all that, I'd say we are responsible first and foremost not to put industrial chemicals in the water and after that it becomes a sliding scale. So what about the biggest industrial chemical we have, Gasoline? Does anyone today truly believe that there is nothing harmful left after it goes through a catalytic converter? I doubt it. But at least we've cut down on that. And that raises the question of how much is too much, which applies across the board. The historic answer has always been, how much can you live with? We are creatures of convenience and will rarely go beyond the necessary, at least on a group basis. So given the polluted world we live in, is some gray water in the grass going to have any impact at all? I think sometimes it will and sometimes it won't. Mostly it won't. Unless you happen to be loaded with long lived pathogens in which case maybe you should be taking extra precautions.
Speaking of which, that points out another disadvantage of a single holding tank. If you add a diverter to drain away the gray water, you now have very little control over timing, as in when and where the gray water goes to ground. It'll go when it is used, which could end up being irresponsible. Like if you forgot to divert it back to the waste tank and someone takes a shower while you're sitting on the Walmart parking lot in the middle of the day. Or even just having water running out of the RV when people are walking by. With separate tanks that should never come up. You could drain at night or during a rainstorm if you like, the point is you can wait and pick your time.
But should you drain graywater during a rain? Well completely apart from the camoflage, it dilutes the gray water, lowering the concentration of soaps and dirt. Since the very definition of Earth is dirt, I really don't see the dirt being much of a problem, the other primary concern is human specific pathogens, in particular things like cholera that can survive in groundwater. Best rule of thumb there, if you are sick don't dump graywater. It's more a matter of the concentration of the pathogens than their absolute elimination which we will never do anyway in most cases. Then the soaps. Do you know what makes a soap? It's a base and a fat. The base can be a wide range of things, an alkali, lye which can be derived from wood ashes, phosphates etc. The point is these are things that exist in our environment, and they do not cause a problem until there are too much of them, just like anything else. Again it is concentration that is the issue, so the more it is diluted the less of an issue it becomes. Doing things like burning the contents of the black water tank which concentrates these components is probably making the disposal problem worse, not better.
So is sending the gray water to a central location where the components can be concentrated a good thing? I'd say only if they can then be separated out and reused. Otherwise it creates a disposal problem similar to nuclear waste.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on August 17, 2020, 11:35:27 AM
Does a bear sh!t in the woods? ...
Jim
Jim - You and the others can defend and explain this all you want. There's no getting around that dumping untreated gray water has potential problems. My mom used to wash our cloth diapers in the sink before putting them in the washing machine - that is gray water. Every time we shower fecal matter is in the gray tank. There's no way to explain away the fact that gray water is not clean water. Yes, it's legal dump to the ground in some jurisdictions. Great. Because it's legal doesn't necessarily make it a good idea.
Countless cases of disease have spread through the wilderness areas through improper disposal of human waste. Countless vegetable crops have been contaminated with field workers crapping in the fields.
Agreed - dumping an RV's gray tank is low on the scale when compared to DDT, but that's not a fair comparison. Just because mega-corporations pollute more than a little guy doesn't mean it's okay for the little guy to pollute.
Again, it's amazing how we as a species of that special knack of peeing and crapping in our drinking water.
They don't treat rain or run off they do everything possible to keep run off or rain water from entering a sanitary sewer treatment plant.There is huge different in treated and recycled water all the car washes in AZ use recycled water ran through filters,in the west lot of towns use recycled sewer water on golf courses but you don't drink or lick your balls,treated sewer once it leaves the drying beds in a solid form is still used in fields lol and you probably bought a bag before at Lowes or H/D and never knew it.Watching what comes out of a storm drain outfall line into creeek,river or lake a little gray water is the least of our worries
I think you misunderstand me Richard. All I'm saying is to use some common sense, and that works both ways. We should avoid making things worse but we should also realize that sometimes the cure is worse than the problem, as in bypassing treatment plants during times of high runoff for instance. How could it possibly be better to dump concentrated sewage in the water supply rather than widespread dispersion of gray water before it ever gets there?
As a species we are pretty resilient. It takes a rather concentrated dose of anything to hurt us, and sometimes lengthy exposure as well. So the concentration is the key. One bacterium will not do it. That will get killed off as soon as it makes contact with us, if it makes contact. Which is a good thing because otherwise we would have all died long ago. The problem comes when that stuff gets concentrated enough to overcome our natural defenses and that takes some doing. Now what does your shower do? It dilutes oils, dirt and such, often including a very small amount of crap. At least we sure hope it's a small amount. (btw if anyone is still using cloth diapers it'd be a good idea to put the rinse water down the toilet instead of the sink drain, especially since that's where you wash your dishes.) Diluted is better. It's safer. The more diluted it is, the less dangerous. So what we need to be working towards is dilution rather than concentration.
Unfortunately the holding tanks aren't helping us there very much. I don't know anyone who has tested the concentrations of pathogens in sewage but it's probably available online. Common sense says some will increase over time, some will decrease, some will be eliminated by anerobic decomposition, some by aerobic, some vice-versa. But without knowing for sure it's mostly shooting in the dark. What we do know is that gray water's threat level is way way below that of black water, and possibly low enough that we could wash our hands in it with no adverse effect. After all, you take a shower in it don't you? Not that I'd recommend that, but treating it like it's radioactive is not a sensible solution because it will lead to draconian measures that are not justified and unintended consequences like overflowed treatment plants.
In all probability the only way a person could be brought to harm by contact with gray water would be to drink it or swim in it, neither of which is going to happen if it is used to water the trees and shrubs. And for the record, they like the fertilizer as well. Agriculture has a long and fruitful history of fertilization with waste products, both animal and human. Today we try to avoid using human waste because it may contain bacteria that infects us but that hasn't slowed the use of animal waste. Urine still has many uses and historically was a widely used supply stream for the manufacture of explosives like black powder. These uses were accomplished without decimating the lives of the citizenry, so more or less safely. In fact they tended rather to improve society rather than to harm it.
So all I'm saying is to think about what you are doing and know your facts. The wonderful earth saving goal you are enamored with just may be a bit tarnished.
Jim
Ah surface water is the reason I don't drink Budweiser beer lol I seen what surface water from Lake Houston looks like
I have worked in some bazillion $$ island cottages that were 200 years old and on one of them the old cast iron ? 3" pipe was still in the water that went out 50 ' so when they flushed the crapper it was far enough as to not wash back up on the beach . ya right !
how things have changed
dave
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on August 17, 2020, 01:52:59 PM
I think you misunderstand me Richard. All I'm saying is to use some common sense...
Jim
I get it, there are times when dumping gray to ground sounds perfectly reasonable.
But being perfectly reasonable assumes that people will have common sense to use. After watching people contaminate the fresh water spigot at numerous campsite flushing out their black tank hose, I seriously doubt that there was enough common sense to go around this generation.
We try to keep things simple on our bus. We have a 90-gallon fresh water tank. We have a 90-gallon waste tank. If our waste tank is full, it means we are out of fresh water and a trip to town is necessary either way. True, we can get by toting extra water from town, but we don't do that. Our tanks will take us at least a week. If we were going to be dry camping somewhere more than that, we'd have to make arrangements for getting our tank dumped and our fresh water filled. Wouldn't help a bit to be able to dump gray to the ground, as we'll pretty much be out of water when our tank is filled.
Some will have the ability to carry extra fresh water, in excess of their waste tank(s). Then they will have to figure out a way to deal with the situation when the tank(s) gets filled.
I once set up a gray water system at home. The water from the dish washer and the washing machine only went into a 55 gallon plastic drum. There was a hose attached to the bottom that then drained the water into a cactus garden. It worked well without any smells or mess for maybe 5 years or so. One day I decided to check out the drum itself. Well, the noxious sludge at the bottom was, to say the least, formidably disgusting.
I disconnected the system with a plan to re-engineer it to be easier to clean but have not gotten around to it yet in the past year. I probably won't. Anyway, the point is that it was the tank that was the problem. Whatever went to ground disappeared without any consequences other than some grateful cacti.
The problem with "common sense" is that its not very common.
Grey water/Black Water: When I was stationed in Korea in a harbor, we were told that if we slipped and fell in the water that we would automatically be given shots like Gama Globulin because of the severe contamination from the sewage that was dumped in the bay, and incidental things like unwanted babies and animals. Some of the things that get into the water are used by various organisms, and other ingredients are broken down by sunlight and wave action. Over time, everything gets recycled. The water cycle brings us rain that is cleaner than the foul water it came from when it evaporated. The Earth continually cleanses itself, the main problem is too many people that don't. So, one tank, two tanks, just make sure they don't leak, and dump them appropriately.
Yes that's very true. Somehow we seem to survive anyway, sometime I wonder how. Maybe we are like the bacteria, we've exceeded critical mass so we survive in spite of Darwin.
That story does make a good reason to be able to flush out the gray tank somehow. Hadn't really given that much thought.
I haven't built my waste tanks yet and may commission them instead but the plan is to make them about 65 gal. each. The black water tank should be good for a couple weeks or more and I consider that the limiting factor. I've completed the fresh water tank and it is 275 gallons but of course just because the water is there does not mean we have to use it all up. I would expect that in the course of filling the black tank, however long that takes, the gray tank would have to be drained, maybe as much as 3 times. I do not think we could go 2 weeks without draining it at least once, but if it was overflowed into the black tank that could be possible. Clearly I shifted the compromise in the direction of fresh water. There were a number of reasons for this and usage was only one. I will also consider options for enlarging the waste tanks, I think it is possible to do that, but by how much I can't say at present. Still they aren't likely to reach the volume of the fresh water. (actually I was somewhat disappointed in the final volume figures).
But as we know it is all a compromise and we do the best we can. It's not my intention to dump any more gray water than I have to, but I'm not overly concerned about it if I do. BTW, I always just assumed that the water hose at the dump station was about as sanitary as the outlets of the various waste tanks that had been there, I don't know how to look at it any other way.
Jim
Some years back I remember a fancy 40' fifth wheel camper with a matching HD truck. The truck was equipped with factory molded tanks for potable water & waste where you could pump what was in the fifth wheel camper into the truck for making the waste portable & visa versa for the fresh water back to the camper. I think the name of the rig was the "Dreamer". I thought that was a pretty good design. We enjoy "portability" in our conversion. We carry 25 gallons of portable potable water & sometimes a 20 gallon waste tote so the toad can do portable runs in a day of running anyway. Our LP is also portable @ four 30 LB tanks. Redundancy & portability should be considered for those converting for boon-docking. IMO
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on August 17, 2020, 07:32:49 PM
...BTW, I always just assumed that the water hose at the dump station was about as sanitary as the outlets of the various waste tanks that had been there, I don't know how to look at it any other way.
Jim
True - the water at a designated black tank dump site is usually marked "Non-potable" and is not intended for consumption.
Earlier I was talking about the habit some are in of using the freshwater spigot at an individual site with full hookups to rinse out their black tank discharge hose. Not a problem is you have 10-25 of hose between so the splashing is not going to hit the spigot, but often you'll see people hold the end of their discharge hose directly under the spigot and rinse away.
Those spigots are intended to be used to fill freshwater tanks or for running directly to rigs that have city water connection points. They are not intended for directly rinsing black water hoses.
Right about that. Probably is a good idea to give the spigot a good wash and rinse before hooking up. Make it a part of the routine.
In practical terms there is only a very small area of the spigot that could retain anything harmful and the concentration would be low so there isn't much risk, but the thought is enough to turn your stomach isn't it?
Jim
Clorox cleaner with bleach in a spray bottle is excellent to keep right there at the dump valves...