I'm in my early 50s. Been doing the truck and 5er thing for 20 years. I love my work and have no plans to stop working anytime soon. I would really like to have a nice 45 foot coach to take on multiple trips every year. I want a Series 60 or a Cummins. No 2 strokes.
I binged watched Lacroix Cruiser and Rehabit8. Lots of work, but also looks like they will have very good coaches too.
So what does a guy do ? Keep doing the truck and 5er thing ? Frankly, I'm tired of it. Buy a Class A ? Buy someone else's conversion ? After seeing what Lacroix found in theirs, I'm not a fan of doing this. Buy a used professionally converted coach ?
Or buy a used seated bus and take the plunge of doing your own conversion ? Spending the time, doing it right, like these couples are doing ? I'd probably hire a helper to assist me.
On one hand it seems like a huge make work project. But on the other hand, good coaches are very expensive. And I love building things. Surely there is a decent return on time invested in there some where.
Are there any parallels between converting a coach and doing renos on your house ? If so, what are they ?
Advice ?
A few thoughts...
- You'll never get more bang for the buck than buying an already completed conversion, even if you have to update things to make it your own.
Even if you buy a professionally converted bus you will have issues. - Convert one yourself, you'll know all the in's and out's and will have clarity on what was/wasn't done.
- Convert one yourself and the end result is limited to your skills & budget.
There is an attraction to doing a conversion yourself, but I'm at the point where I don't know if I have the energy & physical oomph to complete the project. The control freak side of me likes the idea of knowing exactly what went into the project and being able to make the necessary decisions, but the realistic side says it's a bad idea to take on such a project.
Both of our buses have been previously-converted buses. The first was a fairly low-budget buy, and while there were issues it was largely in great condition. It was not difficult to correct the problems, and the overall layout was one that worked for us. We did the necessary mechanical repairs/upgrades to get on the road, and we were planning to make gradual changes to the interior to suit our tastes. No way I could ever have done this myself on a new conversion for the same money.
Our current bus was an older high-end conversion which only had 41,000 miles when we bought it. The interior layout was fine for us and has not been changed at all. There were some mechanical issues, but most of my time & money went into upgrading the house systems (electrical mainly, also some plumbing).
Buy a factory conversion it's cheaper in the long run,just make sure you get the manuals or they can be a nightmare too,remember the money you spend you will never recoup and using a bus several times a year they get exspensive to maintain some shops are at a $150.00 a hour now for bus work.
I have doctor friend in Scottsdale that buys a new Prevost every 5 years his new Foretravel Prevost cost him almost 3 mil beautiful bus with a steam room,all he is after is the $1000.00 a day deprecation for his taxes lol I don't know many people that need that type write off.I have a couple of business that I can write off the fuel and maintaince it takes the bite out of ownership a little
There are lots of 2000s and 2010s professional conversions for sale at very good prices. Also look at high end RVs such as Country Coach, Marathon, Newel, Tiffin, Newmar, Foretravel, etc.
A couple of days ago we toured a gorgeous 2005 Monaco Dynasty 42 foot. Roadmaster chassis with Cummins ISL 400 HP and Allison MH3000, air suspension with HWH auto levelling, 4 slides, all maintenance records, low miles, everything upstairs and downstairs is high quality. Could be had for C$100,000, that is $65, 70,000 US. People get old, etc. In Canada, the snow birds won't be able to go South this winter, so they're getting back into a house. Lots of good used coaches on the market.
Anyway, as much as I like a real bus (I am an old bus driver), I could jump over to a high end RV quite easily.
My first bus was a 5A, Clifford Allen and Gary Bennett, helped me with all the mechanicals and I redid the interior, I'm one of the few that made a profit on my bus and sold within a month. I bought a shell 102C3 and designed it from scratch, Gary and Van built and showed me what to do on the interior and fixed some mechanicals, then Clifford fixed and installed, showed me what to do, on even more mechanicals.
If you have any access to the wonderful and knowledgeable guys on the 2 boards, it will lead to a successful conversion, even if it's just from the boards themselves, lvmci...
For me it's the budget. There's no way the wife would have gone along with a $50K loan to buy a completed conversion. She wants a B+ because she is intimidated by the size. So the only way for me to do a bus was to buy a seated coach and do the conversion myself, which I have the tools and the ability to do, what remains to be seen is if I have the gumption. However I'm on a 5 year plan and if it takes twice that this will be acceptable. Naturally everything has to be done inexpensively but not cheaply. That means time spent to find the best deals on everything from the shell to the last bits. Sometimes that won't be possible, the propane tank is beginning to look like one of those.
I am attempting to do with 20K what I could have bought for $50K, with possible periodic additions to the war chest. Possible yes, easy no. But in the end assuming I get there it will be an unapologetic conversion. Nor do I feel there will be any need for apologies along the way. It is never expected to be a showpiece but to be very functional and comfortable. In the end if it sells for half of what I have in it I will be happy.
So, with about 60% of the war chest remaining at this point I have a '96 DL, genset, water tank, 15 sheets of 3/8" mahogany marine plywood, a water tank, hydronic heater, alloy wheels, r134 AC system, a suitable air compressor, and other odds and ends. Just barely getting started? Yeah not much progress to show for the first year. But, one end of the air leveling system is done, the inside is partially framed, and plans have been made.
If I had the money and the freedom to just go out and buy a converted bus I'd like to think I could have found something suitable. But at that price I think I would have had to lower my sights. The DL is a widebody. It's pretty new by comparison and so far the market hasn't been glutted. So I dunno.
Jim
I'm in the early stages of converting/redoing a conversion on my 5A. If you want a fun project that will teach you some new skills its definitely the best route. In my case it was already converted but was done so badly I'm yet to find a part worth saving. I probably would have been better off buying a seated coach rather than having to rip out all this junk and moldy carpet. On the other hand my coach spent most of its life in the southwest and is in pretty decent shape for rust.
I really can't offer any advise on buying a pre-converted coach other than if you have the cash up front it will probably save you some money in the long run. I would never do this because I value it being built the way I want more than saving the money.
Expect the conversion to take a while if you are doing the occasional night and weekend. Make sure you also expect to throw some money at lots of drivetrain parts you didn't know existed before you found out they needed replaced. I'm 24 and am converting my bus while also entirely re-doing my house and still have other project cars needing attention as well.
Jim - I think you inadvertently mentioned one of the biggest advantages to buying a converted bus. Even if there is lots of work to do in the updating department, it's likely that an existing conversion can be made road-ready in a fraction of the time it will take to do a conversation from a seated coach.
Under your best-case scenario of five years, that's four and a half years working on a bus while I'm out camping and traveling. My 4106 took only 4 months to get ready enough to hit the road, our current bus less.
Not saying there aren't advantages to doing your own, but there are costs in time as well as money. If the goal is the experience in doing the build, then by all means a DIY is the way to go. However, if the goal is to be able to hit the road, then maybe not.
I totally agree. My wife hits retirement 5 years after I did, hence the timeline. And 5 years would be pushing it a bit to pay off the loan. We all have to work within the constraints we have. Otherwise disaster looms.
And I've been pretty good at finding bargains. For instance, my bus which cost me about $6500 delivered to my door, came equipped with a rebuilt series 60 and B500 automatic plus some other extras as well as good batteries and tires. So at any time if I should have to bail on the project the the money is recoverable, or at least a large part of it. Right now just the engine is worth more than I paid for the bus.
But you are right, the time is the thing. And for the next few years Edith won't be setting out on any extended vacation trips and neither will I. If we had a completed RV we might, but in that scenario it would be a Sprinter. I don't especially want a Sprinter. I could tolerate a couple weeks in one but for what that costs... well you know the answer to that. It doesn't make good sense in any number of ways. Her experience is with a 32 ft S&S. So naturally she thinks a 21ft Sprinter would be just as accommodating and easier for her to drive. (not) I keep telling her she has to actually drive one first which she has no interest in doing. But the argument stands nonetheless. Well, if I'm going to be doing the driving it'll be a bus. Which leaves me with the entirety of acquiring said bus. How far do you think a retiree's funds go towards such an end? So make do is the name of the game. I think I've done rather well at this point.
Jim
"I would really like to have a nice 45 foot coach to take on multiple trips every year"
Right there is your "return on investment"
How many people buy a house or a car based on what they might sell it for "someday"
A bus conversion is like a car.Expect it to be worth less when you sell it than when you bought it.
One of the big advantages I see in buying an already converted coach(professional or owner converted) is that the essentials are all there.Generator, water system,waste water systems,
and all the miriad of parts that add up(and take a real depreciation hit) So maybe you want new window shades or counters or couch or what have you.You can do that piece meal as you go along and still get full use of the bus.And, if your handy, you can do most of it yourself.
I know several people that have sold their late Prevost conversions and now just rent one for a month,they tell me it is cheaper than owning one for year with plates,insurance and up keep.I would not like that myself but it works for them
Thanks for the replies. Lots to think about here.
Quote from: Fred Mc on August 07, 2020, 02:56:45 PM
How many people buy a house or a car based on what they might sell it for "someday"
A bus conversion is like a car.Expect it to be worth less when you sell it than when you bought it.
A lot of folks their home is their investment.If i was this guy when I sold my home I would invest the money in something with a return and let the return pay for a bus or RV of course I am not him.When you sell your home and spend the money on a bus it is gone forever and you may never get a second chance
A lot of folks their home is their investment
That's true.My home has quadrupuled in value since I bought it.But when I bought it the last thing on my mind was the value when I would sell it.I was WAY more concerned with getting a mortgage. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2uU15M6Xzg
I'm a hands on guy. Mechanic by trade but have built a couple garages, remodeled and built a couple houses. Even gutted and rebuilt a couple boats. Thought a bus would be no big deal so I bought a partially converted 96a3 with the plan to take my kids to Disney in it. A year passed and I got nowhere near completed what I had planned. By my calculations my kids would be grown before we made it to Disney and bought a completed professional conversion with slide out and solar set up.There was no way for the money I paid for it that I could duplicate it. Best decision I ever made. Have been enjoying it ever since and modifying it as we went. Also sold 96a3 for a profit after I swapped out many of the better components.
I have purchased a couple of converted busses over the past 15 years and done some adding to and remodeling. That is, in my opinion, the value route to go.
That said, I would love to do one from scratch and have it ALL done MY way.
My problem is we full time and there is no way I am going to stay in one place long enough to do a project like that.