There has been a lot of discussions on mini-splits as well as solar and lithium ion batteries lately.
Bus Grease Monkey just uploaded a fairly comprehensive 20 minute video on his installation on solar panels and lithium batteries including costs, sources and advantages. He even charges his golf cart batteries from his solar. Very informative and worth the viewing.
Regards
Fred
Go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHX_PQseAf4
He is not breaking new ground ,Solar,batteries and inverters have been beat to death for years on these boards ,anyway you slice the pie no heat or sunshine you better have a backup plan in place and a good one
No, solar and lithium are not new.But a lot of people are interested in it and always like to hear from someone who has "been there,done that". BGM has been living in his bus completely relying on solar for over 5 months. To me that's a pretty good test of design and equipment.
I'm also on a DIY Solar forum and lots of guys there are designing systems for living in their van/motrohome/trailer and they are talking about having enough power reserve for a few days.This guys has done it for 5 MONTHS.
Quote from: Fred Mc on July 28, 2020, 08:58:33 PM
No, solar and lithium are not new.But a lot of people are interested in it and always like to hear from someone who has "been there,done that". BGM has been living in his bus completely relying on solar for over 5 months. To me that's a pretty good test of design and equipment.
I'm also on a DIY Solar forum and lots of guys there are designing systems for living in their van/motrohome/trailer and they are talking about having enough power reserve for a few days.This guys has done it for 5 MONTHS.
Took him months to get it right if he has gotten in right ,I am just saying there has been plenty before Scott,with solar you follow the sun or you plug into a pole or run a generator wait till winter in TN
We use our bus in all conditions, including winter from Canada to Mexico. Solar is great this time of year when the sun is high. We have 700 watts of panels on the roof. In January, you need a good generator, and it has to start reliably at 20 below... No amount of panels and fancy batteries will keep you warm overnight at a rest area in Montana at 8000' in a snow storm, BTDT.
JC
Quote from: lostagain on July 29, 2020, 06:43:00 AM
We use our bus in all conditions, including winter from Canada to Mexico. Solar is great this time of year when the sun is high. We have 700 watts of panels on the roof. In January, you need a good generator, and it has to start reliably at 20 below... No amount of panels and fancy batteries will keep you warm overnight at a rest area in Montana at 8000' in a snow storm, BTDT.
JC
How well does that solar work up in the Great White North when it is snowing outside JC? ;D
Re: staying warm with batteries and solar at a rest stop. Eh, we kinda did it a few months ago. I ran a 1500w space heater all night to keep us warm and we refilled my ancient AGM telecom bank (22Kw) with solar the next day. Only got down to 30 or so, but I also didn't have the advantage of a hot engine that you get at a rest stop.
If you cover the top like some of us have done, you can do quite a bit on solar. Only issues are when it's hot and cloudy or very cold and cloudy (long term heating isn't feasible on electric of course), we had a rough patch in Montana.. 90s and overcast, busted out the genny.
Solar works good in Arizona since we get 300 days of bright sunshine a year,the boon dockers in Quartzsite get real serious about solar ,I saw a guy on top of his bus washing the panels to gain 1 or 2 watts a day he said when asked
I've seen 10-15% increase in my output by cleaning them. I'm up to 2600 watts of panels, I try and solve it by throwing more panels at the problem.
A well designed and executed bus conversion will adapt to varying conditions.
Putting all the eggs in one basket is asking for problems.
Where in the lower 48 do we not hear cries of anguish when there's a hard freeze? Disabled air systems, frozen plumbing, and now exploding lithium batteries, because someone decides to skip a robust battery management system?
Just more stuff that peeps brag about installing and using, and strangely silent when it goes wrong...
Do proper research, make your own decisions, there's a big difference between doing proper research and copying someone else.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I don't doubt that lithium batteries are very nice... for cordless tools and such where the cost difference is worth it partly because the total cash difference is not that great. But for a bus we're talking about thousands of dollars more here. And I'm not convinced the longer lifespan offsets that. A conventional lead acid battery has always had a lifespan around 5-7 years. The extra weight isn't an issue. Bulk might be but not all that much. And they seem to me to be more tolerant of ignorance. Great for the high roller but maybe not such a good deal for the average bus nut is how I'm seeing it.
Jim
The times they are a changing. We have 1500 watts on our Bus roof now and will be working on a battery soon.
Windtrader built his own battery a lot cheaper than buying Liths. His is really small in size but huge in Capacity. Gained a lot of Battery space and is getting ready to install a couple of mini splits that it all will run. I have room for two more panels which will bring me up to 2000 watts at 47.5 Volts and a Victrom Charge controller which will bring that down to 24 volts which my Magnum is. I still have the generator should I need it. :)
To me the great advantage to lithium batteries is speed of taking a charge. Next is being able to discharge more, resulting in a higher net capacity.
I'd be able to virtually double my capacity in the same space, all while keeping weight the same or maybe even shaving a few pounds.
Weight does matter on a bus, just like any other vehicle. We're pretty much at our upper safe limit right now, so anything new requires losing something old. These things take on weight quickly. For example, we would like to add 4 solar panels to the roof. That will require taking weight off somewhere else. Would be nice to have that happen with a battery swap, but first we need to get the battery heater situation solved.
Quote from: richard5933 on July 30, 2020, 04:01:41 AM
Weight does matter on a bus
I can see where with an older bus the cost might be justified, especially where you are trying very hard to find room to add more weight to the roof in the form of solar cells. But here in the East we get a lot of overcast and I see you guys struggling to get enough wattage to run heat or even the AC, so solar cells still aren't any real bargain here. A 2000 watt heater just won't cut it.
Not so much on the DL. At one point I calculated the payload capacity and it was something like 15,000 pounds after figuring in the weight removed with the seats. Which means battery weight isn't really very much of a concern with these beasties. Might as well take advantage of the lower cost of lead acid.
Jim
Quote from: Jim Blackwood on July 30, 2020, 06:52:21 AM
I can see where with an older bus the cost might be justified, especially where you are trying very hard to find room to add more weight to the roof in the form of solar cells. But here in the East we get a lot of overcast and I see you guys struggling to get enough wattage to run heat or even the AC, so solar cells still aren't any real bargain here. A 2000 watt heater just won't cut it.
Not so much on the DL. At one point I calculated the payload capacity and it was something like 15,000 pounds after figuring in the weight removed with the seats. Which means battery weight isn't really very much of a concern with these beasties. Might as well take advantage of the lower cost of lead acid.
Jim
My 8-D LifeLines are 155 pounds ea x 6 ,the problem I have with ion batteries is the cost for one reason $10 a amp hour vs a dollar for golf cart batteries or $3 dollars for AGM batteries .a big difference for no more than the average owner uses his RV, fulltimers is a different ball game,no way would I invest 10 to 15 grand on a electrical system in a $7500.00 bus make no sense to me
Not sure if it's feasible everywhere, but I've been hounding down these telecom AGM batteries. 18 months on a set of 6, added 4 more recently. I'm paying near scrap value for them these days. I've got $1200 into this battery bank. My rough calculations show 23,040 watt hours at a 20 hour rate. I haven't done a full capacity test on the new batteries yet, but I've taken the entire bank down to 40% soc without issue, I think we were still above 12v or darn close.
Next bank will be lithium for sure, but for now, hard to beat these in a bus.
Eddy you could have lithium's for what your wire costs. ;D
I do equal lengths to a common bus bar because I was getting imbalances when I'd run my Air Conditioner all night. I didn't cost that much, Maybe $100 I think? I make my own cables and crimp my own lugs with the 2/0 wire.
We're gonna be cutting & crimping our own 4/0 wire & lugs with the new Magnum MS2812 real soon on a 12 vdc system. We're not set on batteries yet and been reading into this one steady. I may be tempted into AGMcs but don't see Liths in our future yet.
Quote from: luvrbus on July 30, 2020, 07:16:36 AM
My 8-D LifeLines are 155 pounds ea x 6 ,the problem I have with ion batteries is the cost for one reason $10 a amp hour vs a dollar for golf cart batteries or $3 dollars for AGM batteries .a big difference for no more than the average owner uses his RV, fulltimers is a different ball game,no way would I invest 10 to 15 grand on a electrical system in a $7500.00 bus make no sense to me
Right there, cost per amp/hour to acquire, we could adjust that to cost per usable amp/hour to get the field a little more level.
Since none of us has to put together budget documents for the boss...
Every busnut is going to do, what they want to do, and none of it has to make sence.
Every faith has its Evangelists, and they sure don't like being put in the same room...
Golf cart batteries and one of those fancy new Balmar smart monitors to watch 'em live a long life for me, thanks.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Most are pretty much in the DIY camp so building your own battery bank is realistic. I just built a 12kW lithium ion pack for about $1500 including hardware (busbars, bolts, nuts, etc.). That is about $100 a kilowatt. Other brand names mentioned here are more like $1000 per kilowatt. Weight is about 125 pounds.
Don are you getting your aluminum over on west El camino. There is a good place with decent pricing next to RV parts store and Happy Daze RV.
Cardo? I've been going to Big R Metal on Roseville Road and a place off Sunrise in Rancho. Will check out the place on W El Camino. Thanks for the tip.
Used Tesla battery packs are going to totally change RV energy storage in the near future. They are feasible right now, but it is technically finicky.
As far as keeping warm at -20 on a snowmobiling trip, why not leave the coach engine idle while it is driving 2x 150A 24V alternators ? Truckers do it all the time. You should have more than enough heat and electricity to do whatever you want.
I'm assuming the coach heat system is tied into the engine and the coach has an inverter or two to use the power from the alternators.
Lot of them are using Leaf batteries also with little problem at all.
The majority of people in the DIY Solar world are going with the EVE 280ah LifePo4 cells. Really not hard at all to build a 12v 280ah hour battery for 40% or more less than buying a drop in LifePo4 battery.
Heck, if I can do it almost anyone can.
What was your price for the EVE lithiums including shipping.
I can give you an exact quote if you know how many you want and will give me your zip code.
I am actually putting the finishing touches on a very large buy and have arranged for some of them to be dropped shipped to other people. They get the bulk buy price, but get them shipped right to their door.
The price would be DDP....meaning it includes everything. No extra charges or surprises when they hit the states.
The shipping is less per cell the more cells you get, since higher weights get lower rates per KG.
Nearly all of the orders that I am having dropped shipped have run from $90.00 to just under $100.00 per cell.
So with four cells to make a 12v battery, you end up with a 280ah battery for between $450 and $500 on the high side, depending on what BMS you get. A 12v 100ah Battle Born ready to drop in runs between $900 and $1,000.
These cells all come with bus bars and screws. So some wire, the BMS, some plywood to make a case out of (or a lot of guys are using ammo can or any kind of plastic box that is the right dimensions) and you are in business.
Quote from: Fred Mc on August 06, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
What was your price for the EVE lithiums including shipping.
I have to correct that last post for you....after I sent it, I went in and looked at where you are, and that is a problem price wise.
Right now they are not allowed so ship by boat or rail to Canada. So they have to ship by air. Shipping by air means you get them a LOT faster, but the freight charges are a LOT higher. Unless you happen to be heading to the stats LOL, it will cost you more. I have one order from a guy in Canada (Canada K0K 2T0), and for 8 cells it will cost him $1,199.80 for 8 cells. So a just a bit under $150.00 per cell because of the darn air freight. But he will still end up with 2 280ah 12v batteries (or one 24v battery) for $500 or $600 less than he would pay for 2 Battle Born 12v 100ah batteries.
'Ill keep that in mind for when they open the frikken border. Still have a package at my drop off depot in Lynden.Wa.Its been there for 4 months :) Can't go camping where we like in Wa state either.
Quote from: Fred Mc on August 07, 2020, 09:46:54 PM
'Ill keep that in mind for when they open the frikken border. Still have a package at my drop off depot in Lynden.Wa.Its been there for 4 months :) Can't go camping where we like in Wa state either.
yeah, once that happens, if you clear it with the campground, I can have them shipped there while you are there...or ahead of your arrival so you can pick them up when you get there. I do this with things shipped to me all the time as my wife and I full time and bounce around a lot.