Hi all, thanks for letting me join this forum. I am totally new to either bus conversion or RV ownership, and thought this site would help me begin my journey of education. Any and all advice is much appreciated. My very first question is: are bus conversions superior to an already finished RV? I am leaning towards the bus because I will be towing a vehicle, and I need the storage capacity for a garage full of home building tools. My thoughts are the bus is more durable and has larger cargo capacity. We are selling our house here in sunny Socal and looking for adventure while we are still young enough to enjoy it! Thanks in advance; budget is $200,000.00
Martin
I know no one who opted for a bus over an RV and regretted it.
The bus will be more durable (all things being equal), have more carrying capacity, and be much safer. That being said, you can find a lemon in the used bus market as easily as you can in the used RV market.
Number one rule - have it inspected by a qualified bus mechanic.
Good luck!
Mike in GA
With that budget you can buy an excellent and up to date bus conversion with everything already done. There are also some very nice pusher diesel RV rigs in that price range of very high quality. Maybe the best question might be how long you intend to own it?
Jim
After owning buses for 30+ years Eagle,MCI's and Prevost I opted for a higher end RV ,but with a lot research I knew what I was looking for and found it in Texas a 2008 with 35,000 total miles,3 open bays and all the bells and whistles,20,000 lbs towing and 600 hp (now 650) Cummins engine and I love it.The 200k is about what I paid and I have no regrets on my part so far.LOL don't buy any RV thinking of it as a investment that they are not
If you are carrying lots of tools, consider a truck conversion. Much easier to work on-and any truck place will work on them. Your carrying capacity will be higher. Course, ride quality won't be as good, but I think that's minor. Good Luck, TomC
It's no contest whatsoever, A solid bus conversion, truck conversion, or high-end RV (which mimics a bus) far exceeds a traditional stick and staple RV. There is no need to spend $200,000, there are many good conversions for sale that cost half that, or less. Save your money for upgrades and maintenance costs. The newer the conversion you get, the more depreciation you will suffer. The best value to is to buy a conversion that is basically ready to go directly from the experienced owner that put a lot of time and money into it. If you want to waste money, buy something from a dealer that does not know the details and history of the conversion. Above all, check out many brands and models, and go for the one that suits you layout wise, and is aesthetically appealing to you. Since you have little experience, you had best seek the aid of people who are familiar with the conversion you want to check out. There are hundreds of details to inspect in any candidate, and there are some sellers out there that will cheat you, if you let them. Run your choices through this forum, and you will get many good opinions. :^
Sell ya mine for $199,999.99 LOL ;D
Any work on a coach will cost ten times what a regular rv costs. Many places don't work on bus conversions. Both will depreciate tremendously. A bus conversion has more going fot it with years and time compared to an rv. You need to drive both before making a decision. You need to be able to do a good bit of work yourself to enjoy having a conversion.
Cliff now has a nice rv, but the electronics will, at times, make him batty. He had worked hard over the years, so time to enjoy life with Sonja without all the drama, associated with a conversion.
Based on your "805" handle I assume you are in the Ventura or Santa Barbara area. I was thinking about buying a bus conversion when I lived in Ventura. I drove a truck for 35 years so I went around to all the local shops I knew of including authorized Detroit Diesel (DD) shops; there are a few shops which were servicing DDs in the oilfield and marine industries, but the mechanics who knew anything about two stroke DDs were dead or retired and the State of California made the users retire the two stoke DDs. None of the local shops in the area including DD shops, dealer shops and independent shops would touch a bus with a two stroke engine. Therefore I would stay away from any bus conversion with a two stroke engine.
For the time being two stroke engines in converted buses which are titled as RVs are exempted from the emissions rules that trucks, the oilfield engines and marine engines were under. Who knows when that could change with the stroke of pen.
There is another regular poster named TomC on this forum; he is in the 805 area; he is very experienced and he may have some more guidance for you regarding what you are up against in the 805 area.
Good Luck!
Mike in Kern
For us the big issue which pushed us to a bus instead of an RV is safety. I figured that RVs are designed to be comfortable while parked and adequate on the road. A bus is designed to be on the road all the time. My calculation was that a bus would have better road manners and be better able to withstand a crash.
A couple of years ago that was put to the test when we were hit head on by a Honda when the driver fell asleep. We both walked away and the bus was largely intact. Insurance adjuster said most RVs would not have stood up nearly as well.
Ditto what Richard said. We RV'd in a class C for 6 years prior to our accident. When we saw how the S&S came apart - the only thing that kept us RVing was the transition to a bus conversion. We sometimes refer to it as a civilian tank...
Buses were designed for passenger safety I have seen my share of bus wrecks the driver does not fair well with a direct hit on the front end ,this guys budget of 200 grand will put him in nice late model Prevost if he shops with cash in he can get into a 2005 Prevost lol and Chesssie it will be loaded with electronics too>To be honest I looked at 6 Prevost Conversion 2003 to 2005 models buy never could find one with a open floor plan and most had a bath and half what waste that is I am happy with my purchase 7000 miles on a oil change and added not one drop of 40W lol
I don't care for the Prevost's. When I was touring those there is a Bald, fat, older man that followed me all through the coach. I couldn't get rid of him... ;)
"7000 miles on a oil change and added not one drop of 40W lol"
Ya but I'll bet your motor gets rusty. ;D
The great part about buses was you could do it your way,that doesn't happen much anylonger people just buy what is available already converted on the open market simple economics in todays world.People buy the 2 mil+ conversions now for one reason mostly and that is for taxes,a boat or high end conversion is about the only thing the wealthy can buy that will lose a $1000.00 a day in value .I purchased mine from a doctor in the Woodlands Texas it was 12 years old 35,000 miles always in a climate control garage there was no more left to write off in taxes so it was time for it to go.He started over again with a new 3 mil Foretravel Presvost conversion some one will get a buy on later
I started by converting a 1990 MCI and enjoyed it for 10 years but wanted more power . so I went looking for a high end RV or a bus conversion in the 2000 -2003 years as I did not want any emission crap . If you are looking for a older used coach there are a ton of great deals out there but most will need a redo inside do to age .
very happy with what I have now and I have way less money in it as I had in the MCI . oh ya tons of power and better mpg as well
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gugiWTHqveXwt7Cp8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xGfcjrAZi7YqVbX8A
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C5P5w6K22hve8Ux86
dave
Bus manufactures limit the HP for fuel economy, I stayed under 2010 for the emissions
You know, this guy could buy a reasonably good conversion, all done, and probably with the 4 stroke DD for 1/4 of his budget. He could probably also get a diesel pusher RV for that. They were selling new for $100K not that long ago and had been a couple decades ago so there should be plenty to choose from, so the selection is wide open. Question is, how new does he have to have? At today's prices could he still buy a new pusher? Maybe, maybe not. He's not going to buy a new bus conversion. I think that speaks to both the efficiency of the RV manufacturers as well as the purpose of the bus initially. One provides relatively cheap mobile housing, the other provides many times the expected mileage range over it's intended life. So, driving or parking, what'll it be?
Also, the bus is more solid as a whole which will contribute to weatherability. Once again, how long does he intend to keep it?
Jim
They have some junk in the RV pushers that start around 200k,I found out quick on my CC you don't order a spare water pump without asking the price that friggn Headhunter water pump was over a $1000.00 if and when it goes bad it will be replaced with the standard RV water pump for a 100 bucks I can stand the noise the water flow and pressure I may miss
Quote from: luvrbus on June 23, 2020, 09:41:16 AM
if and when it goes bad it will be replaced with the standard RV water pump for a 100 bucks I can stand the noise the water flow and pressure I may miss
No worries Clifford I gotz a new one sittin here you can have as a spare, I like my water loud ;)
Buses are/were designed to be used.Rv's are designed to be sold.
Some on here may remember Technomadia.There live/work in their bus doing
internet programming.About 10 years ago they bought a 1963 GMPD4106 and had the motor rebuilt and other mechanical upgrades. I read their stuff occasionally and they do not have any
maintenance issues other than routine.
Another one who had bought a 4106 was Juan Trujillo. (there is a theme here in that I also own a PD4106) They are converting it for their family of 4 kids to full time.He had Bus Grease Monkey do extensive brake and suspension work and motor tune up.Cost of parts was 10 grand but it should be safe and reliable for as long as they own it.
You have LOTS of options which your budget allows(fortunately).
good luck
Fred.
Quote from: Fred Mc on June 23, 2020, 10:46:50 AM
Buses are/were designed to be used.Rv's are designed to be sold.
Some on here may remember Technomadia.There live/work in their bus doing
internet programming.About 10 years ago they bought a 1963 GMPD4106 and had the motor rebuilt and other mechanical upgrades. I read their stuff occasionally and they do not have any
maintenance issues other than routine.
Another one who had bought a 4106 was Juan Trujillo. (there is a theme here in that I also own a PD4106) They are converting it for their family of 4 kids to full time.He had Bus Grease Monkey do extensive brake and suspension work and motor tune up.Cost of parts was 10 grand but it should be safe and reliable for as long as they own it.
You have LOTS of options which your budget allows(fortunately).
good luck
Fred.
You have it about 1/2 right bus are made to roll not set they go to hell in a hurry setting like Juan's setting in this nice 114F AZ heat today.Buses on this board are RV's everyone has a choice lol I do know that Carl Blades and his Newell RV compete good with Prevost and their converters
I like my Wanderlodge. It's a bus. Bluebird All American coach. It was converted at the factory. Any the best thing is the Wanderlodge forum is very active, like this one. Pretty much any problem you have, someone else has had and can tell you how to fix it. With your budget, you could have one with a low mileage series 60 and all the bells and whistles, factory set up 10,000 # tow hitch, and still be way under your budget. Plus those in your price range will have all the factory manuals and repair history since new. Check them out!
TOM
I bought my 1977 AMGeneral 10240B in 1993, started conversion in 1994 was finished in 2,000. Now 20 years later still using it with minimal maintenance problems. Just replaced the 2-10 gal electric water heater I installed in 1994 (try that AquaHot users!). When's the last time you saw a 1977 stick and staples motorhome in tact not coming apart? Good Luck, TomC
There is a lot of good information here. I will just add some observations. Do not rush into anything since you will have to live with it. There are junkie RV's, but there are also good ones. Wanderlodge, Newell, and some others are basically buses that are manufactured as RV's and have excellent reputations. There are also professional bus converters like Liberty that do a great job. I would think with the budget you propose, you should look to a something like ones of these that was planned for RV use. Home made conversion can range from awful to wonderful depending on who did it. But even the best of them generally lack the documentation of factory. You could end up spending a lot of time trying to figure out what the PO (previous owner) did and did not do. Plus most of those will have been revenue haulers with several hundred K miles on them.
It is true that buses can go for half a million miles, but that is if they are kept running. Like any vehicle, they will deteriorate if they spend 340 days a year just sitting. Also remember that buses were not designed to be maintained by amateurs in their back yards. That is exactly what lots of us do. If you don't want to you must be prepared to pay heavily for professionals to do it. Replacing your bus engine could be in the range of 25k-35k. A gas RV engine would be far less. This goes for all sorts of mechanical parts as well. In either case, getting a recent enough model that most all parts will be easily available is going to save you effort and frustration.
My uncle made it pretty simple for me. He says you don't see 40+yr old RVs on the road. I have a 45yr old MCI and my dad just sold his greyhound that was built in 53.
Quote from: sledhead on June 23, 2020, 06:24:47 AM
I started by converting a 1990 MCI and enjoyed it for 10 years but wanted more power . so I went looking for a high end RV or a bus conversion in the 2000 -2003 years as I did not want any emission crap . If you are looking for a older used coach there are a ton of great deals out there but most will need a redo inside do to age .
very happy with what I have now and I have way less money in it as I had in the MCI . oh ya tons of power and better mpg as well
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gugiWTHqveXwt7Cp8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xGfcjrAZi7YqVbX8A
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C5P5w6K22hve8Ux86
dave
Nice unit. You totally changed my mind about high end RVs.
Is that the original interior or did you update it ?
But then there is this to consider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuRtNajq-Yo
Quote from: someguy on August 05, 2020, 05:14:43 PM
But then there is this to consider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuRtNajq-Yo
You got to beat that,a entry level RV on a 1ton Ford pickup chassis no comparison to Dave's Vogue
"Didn't want to hit the white car", what nonsense. Hit it, guide it over, shove it over, but don't plow into a trailer and get ripped apart. The driver failed to plan ahead and react appropriately. :o
FYI, the front of MCI Js are designed to fold up and back in a collision to protect the driver as much as possible. Supposedly way safer than a Prevost H. Though neither is very good compared to a Class 8 truck.
This my Country Coach with the Dynomax Chassis and HWH slides only way for me was HWH slides it is beefed up if you look up Dynomax the generator is mounted in the front to absorb a head on.A long time bus owner I did a lot of research before buying a class A RV so far I am very happy
Quote from: luvrbus on August 06, 2020, 03:37:48 AM
This my Country Coach with the Dynomax Chassis and HWH slides only way for me was HWH slides it is beefed up if you look up Dynomax the generator is mounted in the front to absorb a head on.A long time bus owner I did a lot of research before buying a class A RV so far I am very happy
I hear that a lot about the generator, and on initial thought it makes sense. But, have you ever seen any studies showing the generator makes any difference in how the RV holds up? Or that it make the subsequent damage further back any less?
I know that we hit a Honda head-on at 55 mph in our 4106 and walked away. The structure of the bus held together largely intact. I imagine all but a very few motor homes would have disintegrated on impact. Very few use a metal subframe throughout the coach, and the ability of the coach to stay together is only as good as the materials used.
Quote from: richard5933 on August 06, 2020, 03:56:24 AM
I hear that a lot about the generator, and on initial thought it makes sense. But, have you ever seen any studies showing the generator makes any difference in how the RV holds up? Or that it make the subsequent damage further back any less?
I know that we hit a Honda head-on at 55 mph in our 4106 and walked away. The structure of the bus held together largely intact. I imagine all but a very few motor homes would have disintegrated on impact. Very few use a metal subframe throughout the coach, and the ability of the coach to stay together is only as good as the materials used.
Mine is a raised rail frame 9" from front to rear 45'and 5" same as a truck.There is nothing in the way of metal in the center of a bus just look at the spare tire compartment the corners are beefed up on a bus,I always thought it was a joke when people would say always carry a spare on a bus it will protect you if have a head on
Quote from: someguy on August 05, 2020, 03:17:47 PM
Nice unit. You totally changed my mind about high end RVs.
Is that the original interior or did you update it ?
the original inside was like a stripper mobile with a ton of mirrors and a lot of gold . but no stripper pole ! heck there was mirrors on top of mirrors . yes I redid a lot of the interior with cherry and removed all the old carpets . redid the aqwahot system and redesigned the a/c system as well .plus lots of other stuff as it gives me lots to do , but the bones were awesome so it was worth it .
from front to back the coach has a stacked frame and the 12.5 k genny is right behind the front bumper with a ton of steel frame up front under the floor and under the front window . so in a head on crash I believe it would do better then my old 102c3 .
before https://photos.app.goo.gl/A9e1p2dqxCALjqsY7
after https://photos.app.goo.gl/LxL2jMYa7yT9cwMW7
and tons more work went into it and I love the coach and the POWER !
from what I found out if you want a huge engine with over 500 hp they are only in the top of the line rvs
dave
Yep I am at 650HP now up from 600 on my ISX Cummins 3500 miles so far on this trip SilverLeaf says 7.3 mpg average in AZ,Utah and Idaho and cooling running 188F,LOL I didn't care much for the $504.00 oil change and grease job at Boise Peterbilt though ,2 oil filters,fuel filters and a water filter plus 12 gals of Delvac 15/40
Quote from: luvrbus on August 06, 2020, 04:14:57 AM
Mine is a raised rail frame 9" from front to rear 45'and 5" same as a truck.There is nothing in the way of metal in the center of a bus just look at the spare tire compartment the corners are beefed up on a bus,I always thought it was a joke when people would say always carry a spare on a bus it will protect you if have a head on
With the spare tire butted tight to the front axle there doesn't need to be anything down the center but their is at the bottom compartments floor - double corrugated at right angle solid aluminum side to side and front to back. Where my hat comes off is your 3 Xs the HP, size, & weight at the same mpg. Too big for the places we like to go but an awesome rig...
Quote from: luvrbus on August 06, 2020, 04:14:57 AM
...There is nothing in the way of metal in the center of a bus just look at the spare tire compartment the corners are beefed up on a bus,I always thought it was a joke when people would say always carry a spare on a bus it will protect you if have a head on
It's not the spare tire per se that protects - it all the cross bracing and extra pieces of structure that go into making the compartment.
Granted, it was 'only' a Honda that hit us, but between the bumper and the structure up front the impact of the car was diverted towards the side of the bus. The structure of the bus, nose to tail, absorbed the impact. It wasn't just the front that took the hit, but the way things are tied together front to back ripples/waves were present along the length of the bus after impact.
I'd imagine that at the least the front cap and side wall of a common modern motor home would have come apart during the impact.
On you coach, do the raised rails go all the way to the front? If not, then what connects the front stub frame to the main frame rails?
Quote from: richard5933 on August 06, 2020, 08:20:05 AM
It's not the spare tire per se that protects - it all the cross bracing and extra pieces of structure that go into making the compartment.
Granted, it was 'only' a Honda that hit us, but between the bumper and the structure up front the impact of the car was diverted towards the side of the bus. The structure of the bus, nose to tail, absorbed the impact. It wasn't just the front that took the hit, but the way things are tied together front to back ripples/waves were present along the length of the bus after impact.
Yes it does the generator slides between the raised rails the has 2 inch square tubing holding the front fiberglass on the generator slide,it will take hit ok,The driver and passenger area has a cage also to protect both the driver and passenger.The way the manual reads the generator is supposed to go down not up into coach area when involved in a front end wreck lol I hope I don't need to verify that,We almost had to depend on it in Tuba City last week when a pickup flipped in front of us
On you coach, do the raised rails go all the way to the front? If not, then what connects the front stub frame to the main frame rails?
Back when I owned the Coachman I saw a big RV that had gone into the median in SC where they had a line of pine trees in the middle. Yep, the RV hit the pines but apparently it had flipped on its side first. Opened it up like a zipper. Two big pieces and a whole lot of scattered garbage. Doubtful there were any survivors, an airliner crash would be safer than that one was. That was about the point where I decided I wanted a bus. Would a bus have done any better? Good question. I suspect the driver would have had it in any case.
Jim
Feel pretty safe in my XL have seen a couple fender benders in the class a rv's in a crash. Not pretty. Heck if the original poster was looking for a bus I'd take $200,000 and give Him a $150,000 rebate. ;D
The Class C S&S accident that made us Bus owners:
1973 Fireball on a Dodge chassis.
Got rolled over in an extreme crosswind climbing the I-5 Grapevine southbound - lights were flashing, young & foolish.
A tall chain link fence peeled open the entire passenger side before I tried steering back for the highway which was the move that laid it on it's side.
Notice the overhead sleeper is not in the photos, it landed 30' from the wreck my boss was sleeping in it - a ton of dirty laundry saved his life...
After an accident like that I've (we've) driven the bus event free for 40 years now & hope to continues the same... :o
Footnotes:
The chain link fence ran along the fresh water aqueduct feeding LA. The holding tanks exploded causing a shut down of the aqueduct.
A federal marshal was following me up the hill & assisted immediately at the accident. He said if the rig caught fire we'd need to walk away.
When I climbed up to get into the drivers window - he came after me and our 100 lb Malemute nailed him - dog went to jail (the pound) and damn near lost him, they wanted to put him away - like the wreck wasn't bad enough to deal with...
That rig sure appears to be top heavy..>>>Dan
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on August 06, 2020, 07:09:31 PM
That rig sure appears to be top heavy..>>>Dan
Which rig ? mine is not top heavy solid as a rock around curves and in the wind it's friggn heavy period 52,000 lbs GVW
Quote from: luvrbus on August 06, 2020, 09:01:08 AM
What are we looking at in this pic ?
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34803.0;attach=35137
Wake up Cliff,, the post right above mine..>>>Dan
Are we allowed to joke about the counterweight in the sleeper causing the rollover? 8)
Jim
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on August 07, 2020, 06:07:10 AM
Wake up Cliff,, the post right above mine..>>>Dan
Tie a pork chop around your neck West you may get lucky and the dog will play with you
Quote from: luvrbus on August 07, 2020, 09:12:49 AM
Tie a pork chop around your neck West you may get lucky and the dog will play with you
[/quoteIt must be working for you.!! So you can get some attention??...>>>D]
https://www.kptv.com/news/three-people-injured-in-rollover-crash-on-nb-i-205-in-tualatin/article_571e094e-d9b8-11ea-9a67-5fdd2c761261.html
So sad....
The only time a true bus could look like that is at the crusher...
Quote from: dtcerrato on August 10, 2020, 11:20:16 AM
So sad....
The only time a true bus could look like that is at the crusher...
Another entry level RV on the Ford chassis bites the dust,I saw some RV's in Phoenix with the FreightLiner chassis for 250k I would be afraid to drive one in the Phoenix traffic they were terrible were named Berkshire named after the company that manufactures those owned by 1 of the richest men in the US that could afford to build a good product Warren Buffet