This is obviously in response to DETROIT going strictly proprietary since PIERCE had an exclusive deal with them as an alternative to CUMMINS. I have to wonder if MCI or VAN-HOOL will offer PAACAR engines at some point. How is the quality of these? They are certainly not newcomers.
https://www.piercemfg.com/paccar-mx-13
There are huge engineering costs these days, to offering any particular engine as an option. Emissions and cooling packaging are real devils.
The bus industry is very shy of new stuff, there would be great risk of not recovering the development money, and taking away from that which was done on the other engine options.
The world has vertically integrated for many reasons, but this is a big one, when it comes to engine choices.
Very expensive.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on June 16, 2020, 04:05:36 AM
This is obviously in response to DETROIT going strictly proprietary since PIERCE had an exclusive deal with them as an alternative to CUMMINS. I have to wonder if MCI or VAN-HOOL will offer PAACAR engines at some point. How is the quality of these? They are certainly not newcomers.
https://www.piercemfg.com/paccar-mx-13
Those are good engines ,I recall when Paacar purchased John Deere stake in the engines and built a plant in Mississippi you may see those in buses before long that huge plant has the capacity to produce enough
Paccar MX13 engines are in Peterbilt and Kenworth trucks now.
PACCAR parent partner is DAF trucks and buses. MX13 is a DAF engine. Not bad, but I'd stick with Cummins mainly because Cummins is the only independent engine company left that all trucks and some buses offer. I'm not necessarily impressed nor do I like Cummins a lot. I wish Detroit Diesel was still an independent engine company also so it was offered in more than just Freightliner, Western Star and Setra buses. Good Luck, TomC
The new Detroit's are just M/B engines ,after owning 5 trucks with the Cummins 444 I swore I would never own another one.With the new coach with the 600 ISX I am impressed with it for power ,fuel economy and the quietness plus the engine brake is the best I ever had.I had it Cummins in Phoenix for 2 days this week just for service and the shop discovered the PO never had the upgrades done 10 years later Cummins did the upgrades to the EGR cooler at no charge that saved me 3k down the road lol the 12 gals of Vavoline oil change and 15 gals of Cummins antifreeze makes you a little lighter in the wallet though
The Detroit DD engines were first made by Detroit Diesel here in the USA. Mercedes sat back and watched to see if they would be successful (they came out in 2007). So in 2010 when smog laws increased and Mercedes V-6 and V-8 Diesels could not be modified enough to come up to smog standards, Mercedes took the Detroit DD plans and made their own engines which now are the OM471 (DD13), OM472 (DD15), OM473 (DD16). They are basically the Detroit engines but with about 150 changes to fan mountings and Mercedes own electronics. This is the problem with Setra buses, they are using the Mercedes version in USA. Still the best engine out there. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on June 19, 2020, 06:12:42 PM
The Detroit DD engines were first made by Detroit Diesel here in the USA. Mercedes sat back and watched to see if they would be successful (they came out in 2007). So in 2010 when smog laws increased and Mercedes V-6 and V-8 Diesels could not be modified enough to come up to smog standards, Mercedes took the Detroit DD plans and made their own engines which now are the OM471 (DD13), OM472 (DD15), OM473 (DD16). They are basically the Detroit engines but with about 150 changes to fan mountings and Mercedes own electronics. This is the problem with Setra buses, they are using the Mercedes version in USA. Still the best engine out there. Good Luck, TomC
I know a lot of truckers with the DD 15 that are not happy truckers ,Roger Penske told me one time that it was going to be to exspensive for him to stay in the engine business was the deciding factor with him selling Detroit to Mercedes,M/B was a stock holder in Detroit when Roger owned it he sold the rest to M/B in 2000 fwiw M/B has owned 100% of Detroit since 2000
Actually (I know I'm splitting hairs), Mercedes create Diamler Trucks USA. They own Freightliner who owns Western Star and Detroit Diesel. Mercedes also owns a portion of Fuso (Mitsubishi) trucks that also get the DD engines in Asia.
All engines will get some kind of complaint from truck drivers-complaining is what truck drivers do. But you won't here them complain about the fuel mileage they get with the DD engines. Good Luck, TomC
Clifford, are the radiators very large for your Cummins? 15 gallons...tom...
Quote from: lvmci on June 22, 2020, 06:50:52 PM
Clifford, are the radiators very large for your Cummins? 15 gallons...tom...
No the radiator is not that big it ended up 18 gals with the surge tank and the recovery tank.We just came from Scottsdale down 95 N through Wixeup cruise set on 65mph never saw over 188F on the long climb into Wixeup through the canyon with temps around 110F ambient.The Red Cummins did alright the Silver Leaf says 7.7 mpg I guess Cummins was right set it at 650 hp it would get better fuel mileage and it did,being a old 2 stoke guy the 38-39 lbs of boost scared me at first though