I have been looking for one of these (preferably already converted and roadworthy, with an engine that is powerful enough to negotiate the altitudes of the Rocky Mountains) but for now, I would appreciate any background information, search suggestions, what to look for, and of course what to avoid.
Last time I came close to getting one the seller just didn't seem to be the person that I would have wanted to buy a bus from for any number of reasons. In the end, I lucked out in not buying it as I saw it on one of those episodes of "Shipping Wars" and it was definitely not in the condition that I would have wanted, and believed it to have been, at the time that I was considering the purchase.
I have owned a couple of RV's in my life, including some of the larger ones, but this purchase would be my first "Bus Conversion" so I am really looking at getting off on the right foot when I do find one to buy.
Welcome to the fun!
Any reason in particular you're seeking a Scenic? There are lots of great conversions out there, some at prices really nice right now. If you have some flexibility there are bound to be more than one that will suit your needs.
It is the basic design of the coach, with a lower front level that has an independent seating area before you have to walk back up into what was the "coach" or "bus" area so that the living area of the RV can readily be isolated from the driving area. I have always liked that idea, as there was that space unlike the Eagle series that may have the extra "step-up" but was not designed for anyone to be riding along with the driver in the frontal area.
Additionally, and this began before the newer generations of diesel engines, the SuperScenic Cruisers (if memory serves me right) had two separate diesel engines that propelled the bus through a combining transmission, the concept of which was/is analogous to the CH-47 "Chinook" helicopters that I have flown during a part of my military career. While it is no longer as important as it was in the past, having that second engine to enable me to have what would have been a second source of engine power (just as does a multi-engine aircraft, fixed or rotary wing) to get myself out of some really adverse circumstances, in actuality converting a crisis into what is more of an inconvenience, especially in remote areas where I go so much of the time when I am working on my CIS-oriented program with some moderately disabled veterans (longer story, not specifically relevant to SuperScenic Cruiser RV's but which I would be more than glad to better describe to you by direct message). It is a coincidental trait that the exterior profile provides me with the best of all worlds for bot antenna placement as well as having the extra space that is available for the installation of both primary, and supplemental equipment used in the program. Now that the reliability of newer diesel engines, electronic engine, and vehicle control systems, as well as "Good Sam" towing and vehicle recovery that is probably less of a justification which is for the best as it is my understanding that virtually all of the remaining buses on the road today have been converted to a more simple one engine, one transmission vehicle. In the end, it is those rows of seating that were in the original SuperScenic Cruiser configurations that make road travel more being in a separate, individual driving and passenger area while retaining the utility of having an RV.
Oddly enough, I was a bit surprised when you said that there were a number of these conversion busses on the market as I have been looking (again) recently without much luck. The very few that I have discovered were either ridiculously overpriced, most especially in this economic environment, or would have required so much work to return them to a viable, and reliable operational state. That is one of the reasons that I came to this site and this board as I was hoping to be able to discuss these coaches with someone who had more current information and was more knowledgeable than I am on the subject.
I am looking forward to improving my knowledge base on the subject of these vehicles, both operationally and in the marketplace as to price and availability.
That is one tough bus to convert,I can count on 1 hand the people that done a conversion on 1 and made look decent most are real hack jobs done with people trying to make a level floor for a conversion
Don't think you'll find a Scenicruiser with the dual 4-cyl engines anywhere. I believe they were all converted to 8V71 pretty early on.
The upper section of a scenic, by itself, is on the small side to be the full coach side of a conversion. It can be done, but most I've seen use the front for living area as well.
If you are just looking for a couple of seats behind the driver, take a look at the buffalo style GM coaches like the 4108/4905.
We've got a fully converted 4108, and the co-pilot sits nearly alongside and on the same floor level as the driver. I believe that the seated coaches have another row of seating at/near the driver's level as well.
Like mentioned earlier, doing a conversion well on a Scenic takes a special amount of care due to the lower floor level of the aisle. A buffalo has a basically even floor behind the steps. The other big advantage of a buffalo is the huge storage bays below.
Look at the interior of the PD4501. Then look at the interior of the MCI 102C3. 6" wider, 6" taller inside, big picture windows, flat floor, straight side and parts still available for the bus (including the glass). The PD4501 is a classic one of kind looking bus, but it is a very hard conversion with not many parts available-unless you buy a couple of parts buses. Hard considering they only made 1001 of these buses. Good Luck, TomC
You had best check several models of buses in person to see things first hand. The Scenicruiser was an exciting bus when it came out, and caused many imitations, but it also had many problems and issues. If you park a 45 ft. Eagle or MCI next to it, it won't look so big anymore. The Chinook is still flying probably in greater numbers than the remaining Scenicruisers, and both were born at about the same time, but would you spend money to restore a 1957 Chinook?
Hi Expl, When i first looked for a busconversion, I too wanted a scenic cruiser, even then, so many years ago it was a difficult find.
My first bus ended up being a 1966 MCI5A, and it was great, didn't have a lot of problems to overcome, Clifford and Gary, helped a lot, teaching me the ins and outs. My wife and I decided to retire and go full time early, sold the 5A within a month, very unusual in that time period, and looked for a C3 or 40' D3, single radiator, 8V92 or 4 stroke.
My suggestion to you is to get an older, already converted 2 axle GM or MCI. Do some retro fitting to your liking, then you will have a better idea as to what to do and look for. I'm very happy with my C3, I'm 6' but I like the extra headroom and more modern chassis, didnt get a single radiator, as most of those were still being used, but got an 8V92, that had decent power, happy that I had the 5A first, lvmci...
Before you leap, I'd suggest you look at a '95 or '96 MCI 102DL3. Very nice coach, lots of good features, and inexpensive.
Jim
I suggest you get in touch with Kyle Brandt.
I think he tried to corner the market in scenic cruisers.
He finally found a Newell at a good price.
uncle ned
In the end, it all depends on your priorities. If you want a vintage bus, then there are lots out there already converted and ready to go. If you have had difficult finding them, you're looking in the wrong places. The classified section of this site as well as the other bus sites have plenty.
If you really want something with the split-deck configuration like the Scenic, Flxible also had a model that had a similar layout. I was in one a few years ago which was really nice. Different than a GM, but equally unique.
If you're open to newer models, then there are lots of options. I've seen a couple of newer 45-foot buses which maintained a couple rows of seating for the kids/in-laws, and then continued behind that with the RV stuff. A partition could be included as well if you wanted. Endless options.
Once the current madness in the country settles down, it would be a great idea to get out and get your hands on a few different models. Drive some if you can.
I also love the Scenic Cruisers. Also MCI MC-6. Fortunately time and closer inspection of both made the reality of using either one a costly endeavor due to inherent design and parts availability issues. If you want something different and a conversation piece, go for it. Otherwise if you enjoy travelling and camping, then find a common shell that isn't going to cost a fortune in time and money.
Btw, all these coaches are just like cars. They lose value as the years pass and are cheaper to purchase.
I have owned more than 12 Scenicruisers over a period of 15 years (most at a single time was 7). I was even able to drive some of them home. :o ( the rest taught me a lot about Landoll towing )
A Scenicruiser (PD4501) is the best looking coach ever built. Even the ugliest one will attract a crowd anywhere you stop. You can forget about quiet fuel stops!
The full weight carrying tag axle allows for a much lower front axle weight - which means a smoother ride. 8)
A PD4501 is a T-drive, (all other GM buses are V-drives). The driveshaft is about 4 feet long, so there is easily enough room to repower with almost any power train you would like.
With the seats removed, the PD4501 weigh about 25,000# -- Lots of aluminum was used in the construction.
ALL PD4501s were converted to the single 8V71 in the early 60's as the dual 4-71s were quite problematic. The 8v71 in stock greyhound tune will perform very well & can even get 10 mpg if driven appropriately.
Converting any bus isn't for the feint of heart or shallow pockets - a Scenic will cost more than almost any other due to almost everything on it being worn out! Especially the rear suspension bushings. The rear bulkhead is prone to cracking at the engine cradle mounts, so watch for that.
Due to the age, there will likely be lots of rust & corrosion - I've seen a few really good ones, but they are the exception and the price will reflect that.
As Ned said, I found a Newell classic ready to go for less than the cost of the basic house systems I needed to buy for the 'cruiser.
The Newell I got has a 8V92, automatic, 12.5kw genset, large fuel, water, & waste tanks.
--- But, the thing I like the best is the driver's seat isn't as close to the windshield as it is in a PD4501 so there is more legroom. Also, the side entry door allows the co-pilot seat to be even with the driver for a more inclusive driving experience -AND- the living room feels larger.
All that said, the heart wants what the heart wants.
What is your budget? If we know that, we can provide better advice.
If anyone wants to see money and work spent. Try to run down Pat McNeil with the big 46 ft. scenic.
Only thing wrong is he put the door on wrong.
He also did not go to the trouble to strip. He just put new stainless
Probably the most impressive coach i have ever seen.
And quite a great guy.
uncle ned
The 96 and 102A's are a great platform for a MH. I noticed that luxurycoachforsale.com has a nice Custom Coach 102A for sale. Only would need a little interior reconfiguration from executive to MH, cheap enough to do. Look at the size of those windows! And you can't beat Custom Coach for the older conversion work. Then again if you are stuck on Scenic's, and independently wealthy, just buy Pat McNeils!
From Wade Staleys site on facebook...
Thank you all for the great advice. I guess I was just unaware as to how hopeless this might be.
I am neither handy, nor especially wealthy, but the bus would double as my mobile office (another great reason for wanting the segregated lower deck). When I travel, it is usually with just one other person and my service dog and my current plan is to be running beta testing on a program I am developing for other disabled veterans who may not realize the potential careers that are available for them in the GIS career field. I am double, or triple retired, for the most part, having taken "Of Counsel" status from my firm, though I do special projects and handle the needs of some of my oldest clients until I can find a partner that they really like.
Right now I have a 45' Monarch RV, which can do the job, but I really would prefer to be on a chassis that was designed from the ground up to be on the road for long-distance travel. It has helped to train me to drive a long motor home with a long trailer behind it. I am also spoiled by the 515hp Cummins that powers it. Its internal layout has some shortcomings though.
I do know how difficult it can be to find the things that I have mentally "decided that I have had to have" along the way. Looking for one of the Volpar Conversion aircraft like the ones operated by Air America that I had the opportunity to fly just often enough to learn to crave flying them broke me of the "have to have" habit. Right now I am looking for a group of partners to invest in a Jetstar (Series II)731 aircraft. Probably one of the most underrated early "business class" jets ever made, though my current partners are convincing me that that a Sabreliner is more practical [2 engines (like the first ScenicCruisers ;))] rather than 4 engines and less expensive to maintain, but the Jetstar, if we can find the right one, with an engines program, can be a real deal if we shop correctly. And, quite honestly I would love to have a Chinook, though not he 1957 CH-47A models with the fixed rear gear (I think our ARNG unit was the last one to own one, they couldn't even transition us into them at Ft. Rucker, we did CH-47B, C & D models but had to come back to the unit to finish our in-type quals.) & I have even got an IFR (ILS/GPS) FAA approved approach at the heliport on the ranch (not even close enough room for a runway) but I wouldn't even think about it in a Chinook except for the F-models. Unfortunately, they require a record-setting winning Powerball ticket just to fund the 4-man crew and the replacement hydraulic fluid that any Chinook helicopter can consume.
I guess that being an anachronism comes from old age. I will either keep the Monarch, or trade for an interim late-model Eagle and then keep my eyes open should I ever stumble upon a 4501 that has already been converted and that can pass a pre-purchase survey and inspection.
Again, thank you to everyone who has contributed to my discussion, and if anyone should run up upon that "mystical creature a.k.a. the properly converted SuperScenicCruiser that is in the condition necessary for extended road trips in the Rockies (MSL>10,000') please take note of my interest in same, and send me a PM before the word gets out and the bidding wars start.
Lot of small fortunes made out large ones in aviation LOL!!!