Hi all, so up here in New England we're finally starting to thaw out - was testing some things on the 4104 recently and discovered the following air leak; only when holding down the brake pedal, there's a significant and constant air leak coming from the front, probably the driver side but it's tough to tell. This leak is not audible at all when not applying brakes or when the park brake is engaged(maxis in the back), and it's not coming from the foot valve or anything in the tool compartment under the driver. I've read that this can happen if the valves get some junk in them, but a few hard stomps on the pedal did not fix it.
Right now the ground is too mushy to safely get under the bus, but my plan at present is to wait until it firms up, block it up, and wiggle under to find the leak and repair or replace whatever's going on. Might be that that's all I can do, but I figured I'd ask you all and see if there are any suggestions to try or check in the meantime.
You might have a hole in the diaphragm on the front brake pot. Easy to change if it is not too rusty
If the diaphragm is leaking, just replace both front chambers. They are pretty cheap and Luke can get them. One item done and never need fooling with again.
Quote from: chessie4905 on February 28, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
If the diaphragm is leaking, just replace both front chambers. They are pretty cheap and Luke can get them. One item done and never need fooling with again.
X2.
Just swap 'em both when you find it leaking.
Preventive maintenance. Fresh air lines to get full marks.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Yes, the connecting hoses are common item and also inexpensive. Do them also. You can get those most any truck parts supplier just match length and thread size on ends on hoses. Or Luke also.
Makes sense, I'm very much in favor of replacing things I'll probably never have to replace again, particularly safety bits. Now I've just got to lay eyes on it to figure out part numbers and lengths. Thanks
Forget part numbers. Just remove hoses and take them to a hd truck pparts place and match them up. Fortunately it is one of the common items used on coaches.
Might as well change the slack adjusters too
Quote from: Raymond smith on March 01, 2020, 06:30:08 PM
Might as well change the slack adjusters too
There's nothing to age in a slack adjuster, they may be re-used until their mechanical condition dictates replacement.
I would certainly confirm they are tight in their moving parts, and go at them with lube, to make up for any oversite of previous owners. Disconnected, i'd run the adjuster as lube is being applied.
Doubt they are ASA on this old bus.
Replacing parts with rubber in them is always good preventive maintenance, replacing mechanical parts for no reason gets pricey in a hurry.
We have to keep the greenhorns from spending all their ca$h in one place?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Mine is in the same boat, replaced the one, going to do the other as well. With an Air Impact wrench it went quickly.
Quote from: buswarrior on March 02, 2020, 04:54:25 AM
We have to keep the greenhorns from spending all their ca$h in one place?
Oh I assure you, I'm spending all my cash in many places!
If you go the route of just replacing the diaphrams, have some baby powder on hand. Lightly coat the edges of the diaphram with baby powder to help "settle" the diaphram into position during re-assembly and make sure the steel bits of the brake chamber are ... you guessed it, "clean as a baby's bottom"!
Okay! So I got my new ramps built and the bus up on them
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PocBCi9V2icrXvOGmZ1ryi8Soaxhq7W_gjgBOTk0qoIol9FBWmZ7W-qenHReKHar5nzdrL7gFJGIThNv_hxd85o6quac_dQ-EBjuxEQeZxGL2umypM9l23x-be1NiAJbLlEuzFWhT4D22_fLZ6eZRFsOaErbxqdLMmVKZyKEADavBP4SRKN3US0ohwRVcSg8FHUZrC4bc_qCgVCLPmhq7kyjY-VIPb-KMVnMmV9lnrMWpbiWM__DuEuIAA7r0FHpI_BxdT615PUhy92-jZmC9KLoo0ruJqN6Kx_1Y44GI2wXRZqQBU_GOSjLNmGXInLG4DoP8sBR5p82KdQM789LGETxa0eNVwAvfch_1C_HYYzmFbEpAEbYx4ou6otDqYzqYOcqvS4NIjKXG21PNhK7eWMbJ2kRlyahQcZS0s6KXEWloZvi9_OJSC837sRMBebX7oA7HMvzgGI9tdSk116wYvXUI3EqDC698qHReF8fxZNX_zlMNpNFfsZQg3-9kMquGHeG_JnttZbR_RozF0qJ0vunxnBSwHRVo_ESUSE6iuhiqz6lk4phP9dvqPX1t6uvTvt-RBU8oMlk1QqnMuYRO1K71rqfmInSLqeTM3YSg0Zj9NcMxb2PKSugLwKeWmG1halxfo47PbeY3DlwrcphPmRMULTkgZttQmBn1EdUQZdorHumCEgwwoxeRX5T5EwPsOuB67lUIDSWFGYmXBAIkFUCvYwhyVygGIrxBdQZBtdNwhQt=w997-h1329-no)
so I could wiggle under and see what's leaking. As expected, it's the passenger side brake chamber. Now, I'm a newbie to air brakes and am not sure exactly what to call this type of chamber - seems both DD3 and Spring refer specifically to the rears, not sure if the fronts present any of the same hazards but have no intention of opening the chamber anyways. So, question is, what's the proper way to remove these bad boys? Is it as simple as unhooking the air line, knocking the clevis pin out, then removing the two bolts?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fdft38EJYr6NVhGhn8cz23frjKv6gP8yjTdh1q4qGnY6N2OcaA4YNaQAbv8oz3SqlJw-OY0ssGmZvJR2LfZRZP4ZTC7CCm_RwxaboBn3cUlbRw0rZRcFDuavNZiSTXfjD8R1KmUvz28MbQCbsvwxjd6ZCwof0o7LkrSxtitq4oPlYNsxGaxr5JFlAZR3Gk1soj26t2LVe4NMqR2odI2yVrqeQUXh5AgS0BZYeBrc68qdD_09bLAhsqiQSstWoB0Z0K4IyC5_jKcrY5Na5feOf0A2uGE1SqrxmLuTYZJW2zdkio4I3eg9BdFdqAEJCQKtHpEmsBakeQSVg4A-MzOmAObWSyET3HeepbsaHpmSybOu12zxpI3FDG-BKBzCLR-soPd_S4Rv7fxUFs1fYglcJUNDxjqFBTh6gm_mliLtu-BrNQnkKBrEUgORdRx_4GiPgTYpx4Eji7fO7GRmBODqrQ_JY91404V18Wtj48whP1Azi0noTQ3DKugTfBFYd2iU_m_nc4LTqKc7FuegCt9Pc8ulWhGTLfUBe-1z14v_mGdz-gvpoXp06YkaZb2If55PuCWngRfVW8jsj0WIF8jSC-Gny5M5lKf-xlUzQrTwR8UroRmkk7Iawszqx4CK2gXkUyRVIOzIU5Lfj5HDpbEW9xiec5Zm-E4rWf2C6MpQtfMIKwnaI64rk6Eg8N184tEtha2SVwAKWMD7Dh8SX_nMUbKEyfEeuXlxtpEN-_-3Cg-xa4MG=w997-h1329-no)
Also, looks like I have manual slack adjustors here if I'm not mistaken, I imagine this would be a good time to upgrade to autos? The current adjuster has some port-starboard slop as well, seems that probably shouldn't be there.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AcHDbMY0UaUy7FvpcvMu0bZwHVbh1DpGbJLultsxWcLGDgOWOmQfTQVJXrlejsMA5k56zZJ0hEZiGuZkS2cpkb3vdDzQohfUqkzFST9PHfGl82kZjX51cKZmT-IuwIVaQRbfJoa51XdsGfXWzcJFJa1g2kKetupGhdLBsFtftfJR_FN6AMFDNBs9_6uR9pTaoB3z2DQTB7vc5iF7AtYS_yZSz0Wdp6deLkEYH8D3LhsId4kqPNMMUQ7pQLnkCyLcmgrSJoQ1itwe1Q4-Piza7AW9hWPEAJ0GaUmzNcH7gujSiE_-3DSunNnmOohRuKpRFhshVSrdxJjMB6B4ry765kMBifdt3Qbi6EtdudeJpgN54tKeBK6ibAoVJg6V_fkyFoU0N8QSZwTRIhYPc4P93Ic9Bf0iFAt4qoEWX6SsqIgHsYA7WVeaaOrj3cpX_jP-K1suXZHEE17gfPcDrynhvyzxClNKs2a7qeMoPOK2SZH3mWLahqYEi-Rt6KyLJ95olf1gvghOrahsZ_1KQjv4hqrihNPRS-7QO5dyakE0rAX4G4v1M3UrYPa73WDKN0DQ3HMjaPsMHoaFDGugUZP4NTTCpXxEXT7409N1pQIDi-QT65Kp8mUyqUb_l8AGcEdTIZ7LOIc_K2d97Wi1nM-zN96XPWRTEkkV9KFWsDHW8WfPOL5gUE1HVb5OlDwIW-7-NXGYSoR-wzxgsPMAFOx3taTyfEMw0gn4J2HeVlPfiuomJtl4=w997-h1329-no)
NICE!
I believe you are correct - spring brakes/DD3 are rear brakes. Fronts are usually simple brake cans.
If this were mine I'd just swap out the brake cans. They're not that expensive and they are pretty simple to R&R. You've got enough rust on those that I wouldn't bother trying to rebuild.
They are as simple to R&R as you describe, based on what I've seen on Scott's videos on BGM. Luke should have replacements that you could have delivered by the end of the week.
Not sure I'd swap to automatic slack adjusters - the manual ones have been working for more than a few decades, and it's unlikely you'll put on enough miles to make auto adjusters worth the effort/expense.
If there is slop in the adjusters, it might be a good idea to pull the wheels & drums to see if your brakes need attention. I'm wondering the state of the S-cam bushings, as well as other things that can add slop.
If the rears brakes haven't been upgrade to DD3 on a 4104 you will the ICC system a single chamber no parking brakes unless it stays aired up or the driveline brake if it works
Hey nice ramp build, I also have some similar and like you realized, those work just great.
Sounds like ya got a nice project in the works to check and kick start your plan.
I found a big aluminum bakers sheet pan can be beneficial for Scraping and parts washing off some of those adjusters and other parts in certain places.
That way I don't blame the dog as much for empty grass spots hahaha
Have a good day
Floyd
Re the port-starbord slop of slacks
You see there are big washers/shims on the shaft, either side of the adjuster. Add to reduce slop.
I would also be a loud voice saying simply on principal, a tear down of the wheel ends is mandatory on a new-to-you bus. Brake issues are a big reason buses get sold, previous owner used up the capital and isn't investing anymore, you have no idea what preventive maintenance has, or has not been done.
Experiential learning, when it comes to lack of brake performance... there may not be a second time to apply what was learned under terror the first time...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Thanks all - one of my early plans here is to bring the bus by a heavy truck shop I know which said they would work on it for a professional check of the brake systems, but I'm not taking it anywhere with a blown chamber! It's only my passenger side leaking at the moment, but I'm going to replace both chambers and lines while I'm at it. The adjustor slop is only the adjuster itself moving side to side, so additional washers sound like just the ticket. Stopping by today to try pulling the chambers, I'll let you know how it goes!
Washers are not always the ticket, the splines get worn on the s-cam and the gears and splines wear out on the slack adjusters but they are cheap too,the S-cams can be a little pricey
Success!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0gfUL0oWq78wWtfd1tt6tX5rFbB-ju3S9sH5WNzdl6cWtjOjQcGcgPYSHtx4LshhKogycsbFxVRahEfTjVn2zaezLSR-Tqx6BGXvLVfpnCHbH-Dd8JJ0zVPHx93w_Z02MXrNMBFyQX1i9ctDYDOJMX6DXNpiqmbOsjcrrKNvw6aPGMHcVtJSVRBlcb3yFlfUjY9r-4XqZrA30qBgg81CJfF76DgzkdsGomFEW1XYApjWLGb_fTDZOoj94TyZ7hIpYdZBIQh25cvMI1on1aYlIJsDIhfTVZDvfpwVAOFsQ8NApowXFGUaPtfz_8vKCnCzFWdHcU9lyM2-hhsDCtQCAgCLGD737fxopAXKZLEIYJ358WboYwvhzYJneeDSFdToAeAONP_Eot38_mRN0L9Ju8TtOT9Z59hiQEhraDPaKPqvYVFRWFjWvQOWwnuUcMyfXIxnCieIZpWpNGSCBXGChnRf09ENkzaqTRUz0g2KF1i_-7wZ4n9V0U8uL3lz19aHy5H14D3G7V1hKLasUdN66oI_KNxIZo_sdzBHEMhehtarmpNplgx0F9bp6GjA-Vz-7yP0YCqarKHPibjbmYlthGMYQS5la4G1h-po-2cXs1BQqn55HWOKKbQMAETW0ty-ktbJEkWkaBZtZaT8Od8PIH4xVzb_oUD5NELIHVOLq7kKjaFJZuulaX6gP8VNQIFPBK4Lgt0MzXsu83qRQRkBM3wlus2TF7Thgiac8SsrS9LKZSs=w797-h1063-no)
Thank god for breaker bars, wasn't sure if impact tools were safe to use (have read they're a no-no on the rears at least). I'm leaving the slack adjusters and the rest of the brake system as-is for now, I'll have those professionally checked over once I've got new tires on. Going to swing by Napa tomorrow to see if they can just match the chamber and hose for me, I was fifteen minutes too late to catch them today.
Oh, and a small detail, just something that can be done better. Replace your cast pipe thread elbows with brass.
Don't forget to get new cotter pins to put in those clevis pins. Check for wear in the slack adjuster bushing by putting the clevis pin back into the slack bushings and check for play. A little dab of never seize onto the clevis pins when reinstalling would not hurt.
X2 anti-seize on clevis pins.
Duty cycle on bus conversion, they sit alot, seized clevis pins are a popular problem for us.
Effects smooth release the most, something you won't know well from driver's seat until smoke comes out... can lead to dragging brakes, as the return spring in chamber not strong enough to pull back thru the corrosion, what the air pressure powered thru.
Lack of clevis pin maintenance can burn your bus down.
So little, so important...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Behold the new and old!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eIPYPxHP22LL2HsV73wJqKLGRkcIVsN2bu5IRg4ycYUCUqavLs_PoHAmjKveb2ZYsxGYVxy5EQ4l38k2GzuLjj3Hisougz5m5SCTKYlAC8FuYfyBibGXP6eihW5dar5FLa4yza2HSowlgKLfOt0wr9w6RaSSQQITu6Gjb40j501PUkm0GpRMLIVWiCBIlEYeO_XU4fC0mLPYCjU2SyzzxP6AMxavEuDKlthk7DpcUTy7a39uPyiyjpHW-lO_Pbk5dF7Tnx7YomE-REeoj8svA7oF7QVBU2JF0wIbfHSCU9ZCn4QrKIHzHTWLF2f1s4EqfzLyooNW4PfigPmEYfzPblgDPkw5kweg-rzjxIW4BV2YfHr13aeNP1hXKAE0sjLOE8_Ctl1dmqZAMev-2HO0QFMHwAW08V-niph24QDzdZ068JbKV1Vsxi0WTuaDrjqkz1KDDdJfaFIb5jLY2mmqs4supUPP5WW31j1ZDUXdnAxm4DArFb4WLGipkveWwx_qG5uiY2PA2-srp2dpms-vsKulGBgrscmusAH4dO9BMi95ANbd0p8ks-iAAdpU09NTajqj_q5jR9n5prGaYWo1liqqI-Kio4rgoq1AVMQgaEAcTY9g4tSi543gJ4tH3N0-Xf9IDuGSAfhzxD61lFhpoB6NiGjPbKTf8REg8LxmqNw7VaerWQdW77aYro9SPEosMZ-yZS54WxdZVAiQx-yUuouW92CSNkfvHenOUft6HHIRShP5=w997-h1329-no)
In stock at Napa for a bit over $50 each, plus another $10 or so for the lines. Thanks for the advice on the clevis and the elbows, I had already picked up an adapter for the line (new chamber and hoses are both 3/8) but I was going to leave the bus-side elbow in place, I'll swap that out instead. Now, question - is there a reason why I can't use the alternate air port (on bottom in picture) instead of putting a new elbow in the central connector? I figure the fewer connections the better, but there may well be a reason why things were done the way they were.
Make sure the throw is the same, it appears that the new has a longer shaft!!!
Hope that it doesn't need that hump where the studs are.
Best to use the original port. The air line/system is designed such that the hose will not rub on the tire or stationary bits. Unless there is clearance during the full travel of the wheel from lock to lock and zero strain throughout the suspension travel it is probably worth the extra fitting.
For future reference, Luke carries most of these in stock and can ship same day. I know it's not as handy as getting something when you need it locally, but if the part has to be the exact one it usually works out best.
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 11, 2020, 07:41:48 PM
Hope that it doesn't need that hump where the studs are.
It's actually not a "hump" but rather a relief around the edges opposite of the mounting studs for mounting clearance. A newer design but in that size it is not really a benefit. Probably just cheaper to manufacture.
Fittings, lines, diameter, lengths, elbows...
All effect the speed and rate of power application with which the brake chamber will perform.
Symetrical both ends of axle is really important, you don't want the brake on one end to be snappy and quick, and the other slow and lazy, the coach will pull to the side under heavy/panic stopping.
The designing engineers selected every little bit of it. Now, whether previous owners have been faithful...
The crap the hobby has seen on these forums in this regard is epic. Strokes cut too short, hoses fittings just stuffed in there on a whim, total ignorance, but a handyman attitude, can fool the next owner.
As always, refer to the books, not what is typed online...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Glad they worked. My nephew replaced his on his 4104 and that style wouldn't clear. Maybe he tried to use a larger chamber. Dont recall the details now.
Good call on the hump, but fortunately they do fit - I checked it out before cutting the rods down just to play it safe.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tfASgMoZyUwQE0EReLIS7Q58afmSnzRfNa7-73U46vely7mBaqa_KUlJI16WiW6vwINxrcgUr5Yu95OuX45YDQ1IZTKNzlLKtuMJkIbIOOfspPEymDkpHew4Y_4wp-5_5LPhgHAFsmIyLJ_soM1NR2bk7k8Pk4GDjm1I-rvPol2u06q8A1lnASlUpYrmPFRsfvRnJR0n6zT7sJc4X1Rj2ugyKjRL1Y7n9fjFehvUpE84lsvp7O9iumQC3i_6cBP2ojh2DWuxvm3oUR0NFGs38NZ4Q3VfiN2_yd8WV1PoNd1H6kpHsNbVqCyjItXsPklRiVYQ9qNrP4nzC7g3xmhyh8jIRL9OpmiGW40EQv0Ymvbz1aluuypPCS5yywnZbKhmBf9047A2SNnMg77qsNP-rmNWiT5Y8Y72ZvP0G6NRrqX-srHUZ0xHkznB0amNiTo7nqCl6lTqvLpJc55mC5GFrbOAdiQTZhIY2MaHSpmXaFrGhSxw3Yydq38GeLxF3joSxLfviuJ3DPD062d40UONZw5n7sYWG7flkJBDWfTC07tuB0oXbKAJWsTnLzffOCYocQ7CnO4MrR5RN_UIpIghKMY4DEeiVmKL2nlQwNKhmYUq1RQQ8z6qeeHo26qq0nlC6yMLQzsVTqddqv6T8Z4-aR6OHSTFM97msMCL3a21k1k0njBNX-E8t4vG4U1qRb2gnqdgpPRhc8N4k5U5cFPWyDPsa_3a6e7j0W5r-RzqvE8_p3ZD=w997-h1329-no)
I figured for a key service item like this, updating to something I can source on the road would be beneficial; now if I ever blow one again, I know it and the lines will be plug-and-play from the nearest Napa.
LOL made in China has to be good
At least remove the label. :(
A 5 dollar diaphragm in his old one would have better I cannot believe NAPA sells a made in China chamber for 50 bucks
Ditto...
He did the best he could though to get him going,but you don't want that Chinese crap on your break system I have saw those thing blow the can off the anchoring bolts before
Most of them come from China anymore. Like tires, people don't want to spend anymore than they have to, like the previous tire thread. Of course their their new tires ride great. Full tread and new softer rubber than their older tires with less tread and drier, harder rubber. Not worth screwing with that old can. Maybe on a newer coach it would make sense just replacing the pancake.
Not everything with a "China" sticker on it is garbage - these chambers seem solid and well made, and I'm sure I trust them more than I do the 60 year old American-made chambers. It's a Euclid made by Meritor, a reputable company by all accounts. If I don't get a full 60 years out of these ones, I'll forgive them.
Goods made in China are as good or bad as the specs and the QC provided by the company placing the order.
High-end and high-quality companies in the US have a reputation to protect, so they generally inspect the incoming products. Not always, but usually.
If this has a name brand on it I wouldn't be as concerned as I would if it were more of a generic product.
Those chambers are made by ECO in Xiamen China they are sold as different brands here peel and stick a label on for the buyer ,had my NAPA guy check for me
I've seen that happen before, where one factory produced goods for multiple companies in the US.
When searching for parts online, I'll often see 3 or 4 brands with identical parts with nothing different except the label. But when looking further see that there are different specs, different item weight, etc.
Without breaking down the cans to examine the components inside, there is no way to determine if they are identical through and through or if there are variations inside.
Likely they are the same, and it's often difficult to determine which one is better (if any).
Back in the 60s and 70s my grandmother was the accountant for a top-tier handbag company in New York. I remember her telling me that they sold only first-quality goods - no seconds or other lessor goods. But, she said, the first-quality goods they sold to Neiman Marcus were substantially better than the first-quality goods sold to Macy's. On the outside they may look identical, but she said there were many differences that could not be seen. Since she was their bean counter, I'm pretty sure she knew all the details of the differences.
Ever since that talk/lecture from her, I've always inspected the quality of goods beyond the surface & labels.
Looks like a wrap. One thing nobody mentioned was to check that the angle between the pushrod and the center line of the slack adjuster should be as close to 90 degrees as possible when fully applied with the correct brake adjustment. If you don't have a helper. jamb a stick onto the brake pedal then go under and check. As always when working with pressure, wear safety googles.
Some PO or mechanic may have cut a replacement rod to the incorrect length sometime in the buses lifetime.
Quote from: Nova Eona on March 12, 2020, 03:26:39 PM
Good call on the hump, but fortunately they do fit - I checked it out before cutting the rods down just to play it safe.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tfASgMoZyUwQE0EReLIS7Q58afmSnzRfNa7-73U46vely7mBaqa_KUlJI16WiW6vwINxrcgUr5Yu95OuX45YDQ1IZTKNzlLKtuMJkIbIOOfspPEymDkpHew4Y_4wp-5_5LPhgHAFsmIyLJ_soM1NR2bk7k8Pk4GDjm1I-rvPol2u06q8A1lnASlUpYrmPFRsfvRnJR0n6zT7sJc4X1Rj2ugyKjRL1Y7n9fjFehvUpE84lsvp7O9iumQC3i_6cBP2ojh2DWuxvm3oUR0NFGs38NZ4Q3VfiN2_yd8WV1PoNd1H6kpHsNbVqCyjItXsPklRiVYQ9qNrP4nzC7g3xmhyh8jIRL9OpmiGW40EQv0Ymvbz1aluuypPCS5yywnZbKhmBf9047A2SNnMg77qsNP-rmNWiT5Y8Y72ZvP0G6NRrqX-srHUZ0xHkznB0amNiTo7nqCl6lTqvLpJc55mC5GFrbOAdiQTZhIY2MaHSpmXaFrGhSxw3Yydq38GeLxF3joSxLfviuJ3DPD062d40UONZw5n7sYWG7flkJBDWfTC07tuB0oXbKAJWsTnLzffOCYocQ7CnO4MrR5RN_UIpIghKMY4DEeiVmKL2nlQwNKhmYUq1RQQ8z6qeeHo26qq0nlC6yMLQzsVTqddqv6T8Z4-aR6OHSTFM97msMCL3a21k1k0njBNX-E8t4vG4U1qRb2gnqdgpPRhc8N4k5U5cFPWyDPsa_3a6e7j0W5r-RzqvE8_p3ZD=w997-h1329-no)
I figured for a key service item like this, updating to something I can source on the road would be beneficial; now if I ever blow one again, I know it and the lines will be plug-and-play from the nearest Napa.
Unless an original equipment bus part is in total failure we strive to rebuild or recondition. Up grade to a newer part is low on our list. I'm proud to say we run most of the original brake blocks, all the cans, some of the bellows, etc. etc. That were on the bus when purchased 40 years ago. The bus is totally safe as it was including the drive shaft parking brake and conventional brake system, no dd3 or spring brakes. But I must admit we had to replace unobtainium parts like charging system, fan hub, brake application valve & so on. Just part of the madness of owning, operating, & maintaining an antique bus I guess. In post war times things were manufactured to last much longer than their design life (just like us humans! lol). Today we live in a throw away world & it shows around every corner...
It's ironic that it was GM that started the concept of planned obsolescence, which helped our migration to a disposable part world.
Just one of many many big corps that created that concept...
Well gang, I have decided to hang onto my old chambers - I'll set them aside for a rebuild sometime when I have fewer critical things to work on, and they can reunite with the bus when and if I have any issues with the Chinese chambers.
That said, I'm very glad I'm doing this - correct me if I'm mistaken, but the below angle looks quite wrong for these, my understanding is the angle with brakes applied should never be greater than 90:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2C8Tqg1e29H3VZpXL40xzseUsJrnKWqdyXwVGmQJUpJIGECvm_0VrsDFIH1YnTaPW5UMMIDgOx97xK0o6IqU8qVCFejnPKGkqKe1e_Ghrgt3w9P0rFfttsFJxklxgBrON0Eru6mubtVop5uvW_mrKA7JnHaPFxlvoQviuRjn_xbq0yyAQJQeqeiEQneLmcRmP-I11qiWM4XKP_uypvQ5dLAtWgQzCFARpX8ZF5g48dbRIxMD1pTKh1sMfUEF7fGD-MTDASrM67zqmTMLgjPBa2sKGSW72fak9NmIDnNI-wBeMVLcKBlqkAb8ww-HGXAr34LTJ-BC1DBKTij7OpxsLj0lKNbUx6aAHic5C_Meln-oYfaXOFa_RnUWnKtsymWYT_H8RR5bb9Qhc7bs-P9BPmDtoi2kakgRYyfwKUIzCKO_JDoxmiD5op51YyCXPGTFHQDH4kkRq852KWG4l6Um3TkTMWDE9vPf7USepvyPCbuVc2PazHq6xeEAI48AtHhZBVLyHYlaMCAf7kRkjFs5sHVGTWaIosZ7_Q2Rr4ci6HHJqpX2i1swJe0fdECsJTkqjua_vH1dApej-H69K9rpIWcF24-8mYnN9IwdIEPwc9PzStMlMCKiUWFHZC7qVHpJ1xQsrTrm6g_C0MqHca6QDEatvZc3ljdnyl5mUZ0EKHxyGn6hFMJ6-4kEIVpkFCy9dEm0mvyJo_K8iX5nWnVHECq50dCkQPCWcqFfa8rEKrxyLxF-=w997-h1329-no)
Above is the driver side (which started leaking while I was working on them today), while below is the new can on the passenger side which I had cut down to match the take-off, then cut down a bit more today:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yzvND7Y9HIroaxv-xswP0TNkOLul0H5LB1kentFNMl3j8AmucaX69Mrr2VHLhZzkYqjeg9uzTEXO1mBb97oWzn8-U0YrFkx_fZN9LEruMFK5TdnJ87aPZ5IfHWhM27kcgGxfvJuYFv5-99gGKjtNytyC_kiW-A_PuPBn57SgFAKGPV-Vql0pd1j8i-imkLfotKS3FQxsveX-yDiQOXzzKeygJE5CAWFECIemQ_XquGD80AeBEYEbW454YU7MOa97Uc_08gwAB2ad_o5hmfFl-QqUlrvnUPralT4f9cFndzTkcx_m-hmmsfVluwwjnX9J2X-Pn_tqcFoXEtj-RP6vlAOBBxscUhvQ_8WlyuMmLGFSmAXaaoBZ_YGw2xzNiPYK9j_1mTpNaW53rKrpq07dRq-yeKI_NvZJ4bHi9OojR1rHVXM7YOGmarQO9c361Q6SjPkqvS7v_ix70hu1ONwMrXBdybi6ZiI2hNS1okEkWw1v2ncmzlPxJbDN8soqQQ4pUJTNpiQWTwsNlv9Ym36Ikqln3cKTvrd6xr3uDeDwJ0DSoModBqwo7L5-yP5GrCgIb_tKbZP7oIjMckGflRb9rAsbOH7s28juihRidB2YuRS3nYT2VxWvs5S_hQxHMODk2Oc_qvxqsafwW_HevBHrATi8b4nR-qoSwg8Brk5yQLTYnkBYAqPSbD7A368ZxUi6ZM27kqBn9dIskcAPrPB5RGVVaRTk1U2w2looiGafu5smDU-m=w997-h1329-no)
Right now my plan is to take another inch off the rod on the passenger side, then cut the new driver side chamber to match it, with the goal of getting down to that 90 degree angle point. Let me know if I'm missing something here.
Well, yes, the horrible cracks in your tire(s). They look like they might blow any minute. I would not take them on the road. Replace! :o
Oh I'm well aware of those - I'm fixing the brakes now so I can creep slowly down to the local tire shop, those tires are 21 years old.
That would put them in the three digit DOT code area. Some shops would be very scared to work with them with pressure still in. Don't linger near them, the shrapnel would hurt. :'(
Are those tubeless tires?
Nah, they're radials, just ones old enough to drink. Date code 118, which means they actually had a birthday this month and are now 22. Once I get the brakes squared I'm going to slowly head over to a tire place nearby to get some fresh rubber on; it's a bit tempting to just pull the front wheels and take them in to get replaced first, but I don't have a concrete or paved surface to block up on and I don't trust the ground this time of year.
Sometime you have to know how it is supposed to be done and not to just depend on how it was done. Looks good.
Yes radials but is the tire diameter 20" or 22.5? In other words one piece rims or split rims with lock rings?
One piece budds, 24.5" - they're old but not ancient.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZW0ziH9oZUAa6146yk6XIEVli6E3OQno9FAxi1PMQ0nAP7o1D57B3KRDR8JySocCcHVrSDIRZMbEbBNsY3JsbSPF-WYi7BGA6Q-DmpaZGLTKD0uyS-h0cqnRXzmpxBceh6otBDwtmRb7g0nQ0fqAjdsKp1RbbAVBEs74B9ibEvrlHbQu4xqWK8Wnh5QVxHQHUaKETZhrsN490-ODKI6lYrx3CMQeZFqZg8or7uLO77yY-vuZRAxt9UfDMl5Qn4eXAGZ-gbESaFnO6e4c1lgrjta1pxGsyfMyW-SOEMZJgILzCOcWGgo2Jnfssn2ZU7RkyNqBh201jZ9z4dH_VzGp7gTjhVvA-lHotESNF7o6y_vwwKoZJkhAOsZHncI1KYjZR8fdDW0_fCDcqzFUUZ53_N6GmkE2XbeodFK-BwfiLJtWgFeF9eoQcfxeqiY2wmUB236vmwmyXWMIxoai1WRdPqtSxILSsf6tZIBTOYmb_4GeBorAj7jY7FdIlHV3ckyOVBbOOiaWmoiWQnkHaSOKK5ZOEgVrxWR8bXDQ9yhToiteCbNDPaDtBPti--RH3hROx47GHoYlklb6mFKzStySeuo4KP7ERGA_ClGzkfbeCqMQPcscpXnPNlh6RsP3HT8FotonhMM8mUxIm9dHHe-Sh6wNSF90zbvmS-WAFx6BCKYGNx61WxLxkD3DQuCim7M0-wLVl9GRUqaYGvAMHwW9vmbTIWDkVwsgh_r8UkUuysdBR2RTZ41yKYM=w997-h1329-no)
Thats good. There are still 4104's around with the old split rims. Glad you dont have to find new wheels.
Quote from: richard5933 on March 14, 2020, 04:47:37 AM
I've seen that happen before, where one factory produced goods for multiple companies in the US.
When searching for parts online, I'll often see 3 or 4 brands with identical parts with nothing different except the label. But when looking further see that there are different specs, different item weight, etc.
Without breaking down the cans to examine the components inside, there is no way to determine if they are identical through and through or if there are variations inside.
Likely they are the same, and it's often difficult to determine which one is better (if any).
Back in the 60s and 70s my grandmother was the accountant for a top-tier handbag company in New York. I remember her telling me that they sold only first-quality goods - no seconds or other lessor goods. But, she said, the first-quality goods they sold to Neiman Marcus were substantially better than the first-quality goods sold to Macy's. On the outside they may look identical, but she said there were many differences that could not be seen. Since she was their bean counter, I'm pretty sure she knew all the details of the differences.
Ever since that talk/lecture from her, I've always inspected the quality of goods beyond the surface & labels.
Even if the product is exactly the same, from the same production batch, what happens is the first quality units go to the contracts with brand name companies. Those not passing QA go to lower tier contracts and the rest, the stuff we typically call chinese crap, gets a whatever label and sold off cheap.
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 15, 2020, 10:46:57 AM
Thats good. There are still 4104's around with the old split rims. Glad you dont have to find new wheels.
Me too! Got the new chambers' rods cut down today, mounted, and adjusted for a 90 degree angle. Adjusted the slacks and greased all the zerks while I was down there, time for new tires finally!