Hi guys. My breakdown thread is too long and no longer relevant. Most of you know I'm performing an engine swap here at Jack Conrad's place in Florida. He's leaving tomorrow morning so I'll be on my own from here on. I have some specific questions that I need simple answers to. The engine I purchased was set up for a truck so I have to swap some things over like the water pump housing, fan pulley/harmonic balancer, and the water cooler thingy on the side near the bottom of the engine that feeds coolant to the tranny heat exchanger. Do I need to purchase a specific gasket for that and do I need to purchase a water pump housing gasket too? What about the gasket for my air compressor? And power steering pump?
Cliff can probably help here. I'm sure has has plenty of spare gaskets over the years. He'll chime in after he gets out of bed lol.
Post some photos of the rear of both engines I don't think what you are try to do is going to work without changing bell housings and a auxiliary drives,? aren't the oil pans different.there is no gasket on the water pump it uses a square cut o=ring where it mounts to the block,you cannot just swap the harmonic balance from 1 engine to the other ? why do they need changing or is the pulley that needs changing
Here's the issue I'm running into that cliff may have been mentioning earlier. I was able to get the air compressor mounted fine in its accessory hole but there isn't one available that I can tell for the power steering. I opened both plates and nothing was behind them. There is one running off the blower drive that is just an empty pulley. Can I somehow use that to run the vickers pump? I am not using the 50-DN Alternator so I'm not worried about that. I'm going to just buy a small belt driven 24v alternator and run it off the blower pulley. I really really REALLY don't want to have to change the entire bellhousing
I used a 92 truck engine for my engine swap into a MC8 and I had to change the block plate between the flywheel housing and block that has the gear drive for the steering pump and had to change the flywheel housing as well because the starter location was different. I run a belt driven alternator off the blower drive as you are suggesting and it works well.
Scott is a resourceful young man he will get it done lol his one day time frame may not happen though ;D
10-4 on Scott's resourcefulness and also on "timeframe". What we have really learned in 40 years of bus ownership is being flexible takes a lot of the pain out of it - non related to the wallet of coarse..! Lol
Lol ok ok. So it may take me more than one day to swap the engine lol.
Tomorrow I'm tackling removing the stuff in the way of removing the tranny from old engine so I can get to the flywheel housing and gear sets. Anyone have any more pointers? Where do I buy the copper crush washers and oil seal that I'm supposed to not reuse?
Order you end plate gaskets and washers from PC Industries 877-885-4724 or 307-885-4724 speak to Allan and use only aviation type Permatex no RTV,if you are not clear on what you need Allan can call me and I'll help you. they have a $25.00 min now on orders so order everything you need ,don't buy the copper washers from Harbor Freight use the right ones
Cliff I was impressed when you mention Alan Johns with PC - he was very helpful as is their interactive website when we did our in-frame.
Scott if you do a bank draft with them instead of a credit card it will save you $$. At least 5% I think... Fwiw.
Quote from: dtcerrato on February 16, 2020, 06:44:07 AM
Cliff I was impressed when you mention Alan Johns with PC - he was very helpful as is their interactive website when we did our in-frame.
Scott if you do a bank draft with them instead of a credit card it will save you $$. At least 5% I think... Fwiw.
I have been dealing with Randy ( owner} long before Allan now Allan doesn't ask me for a serial number because he knows I am on a different cloud
Quote from: luvrbus on February 16, 2020, 04:47:31 AM
Don't buy the copper washers from Harbor Freight use the right ones
Say what? ;D ;D
Quote from: Van on February 16, 2020, 09:38:52 AM
Say what? ;D ;D
They are a special cooper washer for the bell housing the Harbor Freight washers are too thin to seal
Yeah, for this get the correct ones. The Harbor Freight ones are too hard to seal correctly.
So cliff mentioned that my starter location may be different on old vs new engine which might require me to change the flywheel housings over. I'm thinking of just not switching over the flywheel housings and gearsets just for the silly power steering pump. I need a new pump anyway and am hoping maybe they make a high pressure integral steering pump that is belt driven. If so, I can use the blower pulley and be done with it. Starter is located exactly in the same places on old and new engines...what say you?
Mounted mine on other cam drive but you will need adapter plate and drive gear and check rotation.
Mine is 871 but that is same setup. Bob
Bob, both of my outer cam gear housings are empty. I only have the one for the air compressor and one for a pulley off the blower drive. Could I in theory use that drive for the pump?
Quote from: Scott & Heather on February 16, 2020, 05:48:49 PM
So cliff mentioned that my starter location may be different on old vs new engine which might require me to change the flywheel housings over. I'm thinking of just not switching over the flywheel housings and gearsets just for the silly power steering pump. I need a new pump anyway and am hoping maybe they make a high pressure integral steering pump that is belt driven. If so, I can use the blower pulley and be done with it. Starter is located exactly in the same places on old and new engines...what say you?
Measure from the block to the outside of the starter hole and be sure they are the same that is were the difference will be if any.Trucks don't run power steering pumps from a V belt most are clog belts that is another can of worms.Change the stuff there is nothing back there that will eat you lol
I still say change the housings. If you don't, and run into more issues when it is ready to hook everything up, you'll wish you did in the first place. Just pay Cliff to come and help. He can probably do most of it with his eyes closed. Besides, he'll need the money to get his satellite dish the way he wants it.lol
Scot, the larger 5 bolt cover to the right of compressed the problem will be coming up with the adapter. I found one but had to have a spacer made to mount the pump. Bob
Here's the real deal rub. I'm not scared of changing stuff. But I literally have 13 days to get this coach on the road. I don't have flexibility in my schedule at thus point. I have two different contracts for the month of March and April in PA and IN to sing several nights a week as well as 8 weekend concerts already scheduled between those two months. Tearing further into things, possibly creating more leak points and issues literally just for the power steering pump seems like a risky venture with my time frame. That's what I'm trying to avoid...waiting days for gaskets and seals and crush washers to ship from Wyoming only to realize I needed something else or messed up a gasket or oil seal. That's the only reason I'm trying to weigh my options here. If a belt driven pump can't work for my integral steering, then I'll just have to bite the bullet today...but I'm into this my first week already and I'm rapidly running out of time.
If I'm going to tackle this,
My manual states I need these tools. I don't own any of these, so what's the next best thing?
Stud set, alinement J1927-01
Stud set, alinement J25002
Installer, seal J21112-B
Expander, seal J4239
Handle J3154-1
Tool set, seal and wear sleeve J35686
Are the oil pans the same on both engines ?
You should do it right, even if takes a little longer. Once you start, it is surprising how fast it actually goes.
Most "special" tools, you can do without with a little ingeniousity.
Good luck.
JC
Only tool he would need is the installer and puller for the wear ring on the crank and that should be new with no wear for the few hrs the engine was ran
Scott, I have one thing to say and I will shut up.
Any time you get in a hurry it will cost you.
Time, money or both and more besides.
That's OK if you are willing to pay the cost. But with what you are doing the cost can be pretty high. Also the old saw, there's never enough time to do it right but there is always time to do it over. Just bear that in mind. Doing it over in this case isn't unthinkable, but man, what an inconvenience.
How would you handle it if you didn't have the choice? If there was simply no way to meet your deadline? There has to be an answer there somewhere. When working with big equipment like this every effort should be made to be sure it is right. It ain't like yanking the B&S off the go-kart.
Jim
There's always time to do it over but never time to do it right the first time.
You're a smart guy and you've got friends. Borrow/rent a coach if you absolutely have to. I've never regretted doing it right the first time.
Good advice...
Turns out the blower drive gear fits the power steering pump
Perfectly. So that problem is solved. No need to swap the housings and gear sets.
Got the transmission mated to the new engine today. Tomorrow will be starting to swap over accessories. Things are clicking along nicely now.
Looking good Scott. Wish you were closer and I'd lend a hand. That 1500 miles would be a killer. Hope Bus Folks around there will lend a hand.
So we have the engine almost completely ready for reinstallation back into the bus. Tomorrow I have to install the new power steering pump, make a bracket and install the new 24v alternator, and finish hosing up the various lines to the new air compressor. Also installing the new starter tomorrow as well. Going to go over every square inch of the engine with a fine tooth comb. Also going to fill the engine with oil and look for leaks. I have a pressurized engine primer that I'll use to fully prime the engine with oil before trying to start it. Probably won't be ready to start it unit I get the Hayden oil cooler/fans/mounting kit and new hoses installed. I'm hoping for a first start attempt by Monday...we will see if I can make that date...
Looks like the old engine was from a truck also both have truck oil pans and the 0 tilt air compressor
Sounds like you are making very good progress, I hope it continues to go smoothly for you.
Jim
After you get it on the road and accumulate some miles, you may want to collect an oil sample and send it in for a baseline and an indicator of any potential issues. I think blackstone?? Labs do them as well as Cat.