Ugh, not a good day.
I brought the bus to a heavy diesel shop (that I trust) to have them look over the front end. It gets the death wobble above 65 occasionally.
But, he didn't fix it. The reason he didn't fix it was because he said the rot to the frame was pretty bad.
Where the suspension meets the frame its getting thin. The engine cradle is pretty rotten.
Needless to say, I'm bummed out.
Whaddyathink? Weld it up? Scrap it? Part it out?
Sad day.
Here is my project thread.
http://eagles-international.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4786&sid=1e26ef64d91eeacdeea7d694ae516faf
Went from a little rust replacement to entirely replacing the skin and all tubing in the engine area, with the engine. WWAI
If your in love with it, you can fix it, but might be cheaper to start over
Thanks eagleguy. I'm not sure I want to go down that road. I mean the total restoration road. But at the same time, I'm into this thing for over $8000. Not sure what to do.
My fault for buying it sight unseen...
MCI's are a challenge to repair rust where on a Eagle with the frame you just keep cutting away till you find solid metal cannot do that on a MCI the way they are constructed, that is a bummer for anyone we feel for you
Ouch, that is bad. If Cliff says it is a hard fix, believe it. If you can, take some pictures of the bad areas with good lighting, maybe somebody who has been in a similar fix will have some suggestions. In the meantime, drive it slower on smooth roads. Buying a bus without checking it thoroughly is a gamble, but at least you have learned how to handle the transmission. Unfortunately, salvage metal prices are at low points lately. Your best bet might be in selling parts. It really looks like the previous owner took advantage of you. :(
It seems like the amount of resources, labor, time, and dollars, to get the bus mechanically sound makes you uncomfortable. If you choose not to take on the restoration and conversion project, you can consider several options.
Sell the bus. You'll likely not get what you paid if you disclose its condition. It is tough to sell a bus today and downward pricing pressure is immense.
Part it out. Mostly likely will take awhile and require your involvement for marketing and selling the parts. You may be lucky and get a fair return. For example, if the motor was recently rebuilt by a recognized rebuilder and fully documented, you should see grins in the mirror. However, the more likely scenario is a tough slog just to recapture some of your costs. The final act is hauling to a scrap yard to receive your final death benefit payout.
Charge forward with your project and undertake the issues know today and those discoveries exposed once the initial list is checked off. Lock up your guns and throw away the key so you remain sane and alive. lol
Good luck whichever path you choose.
Second opinion time.
Mechanics are not body guys, truck guys aren't bus guys...
Take it to a place that does collision repairs to highway coaches for an evaluation.
Don't prime them or bias them with your tale of woe, just hand it over and say "I've been told this might need some structural repairs, what says you?"
And you will be expecting to pay for some shop time.
Do not waste their time, in and out.
Then you know where you are.
Right now, you don't.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
A second opinion sure would not hurt but his guy has found the spots that send the MCI's to the bone yard ,he is going to find a lot of rust behind the siding on the front clip I am almost sure ,it is a shame the 96A is such a nice looking bus.All buses rust here is a Prevost that needs attention
You might try to find another 96a that has spent its life in the south and keep yours for a parts coach if you have the room. I would get the next one with an automatic, as manuals are really hard to sell later when you move to a newer model.Unfortunately, too many go for the great selling price first. If anything, youll know now that more inspection is necessary before you buy. If you dont have the space for a parts vehicle, just bite the bullet and unload it for whatever the loss may be. Some of the structural repairs detailed here in the past are not for the faint of heart.
Yep like the Kenny Rogers song "you got know when to hold and when to fold" most people hang on then fold after spending a lot of money and time
Thanks guys, for all the thoughtful replies. I may just go get another opinion. I don't mind fixing it - I'm handy with a welder. I also don't need it to be perfect just structurally sound. He said the middle part of the framework is good it's just the very front and back that are soft. I'm so bummed! I don't have the money to get another bus and start over and I also can't afford to scrap this thing and think I'm getting another any time soon.
It's unfortunate but I'm exploring the option of repairing it.
Good luck, remember to block the MCI in the middle,front and rear perfectly level before you start cutting or you will have a mess on your hands
Its an Eagle but its also a bus:
http://www.busconverter101.com/aboutus.html (http://www.busconverter101.com/aboutus.html)
http://www.busconverter101.com/ (http://www.busconverter101.com/)
This situation brings into play something called "The Sunk Cost Fallacy". The basic meaning is that one should not consider past expenditures in deciding future expenditures. The past money is gone and never coming back, so you should only look at the value of future options. It is pretty common for us to think the other way though. It's what my father used to call, "throwing good money after bad."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
Anyway, you really do need a second opinion from a qualified source to make the best decision.
Quote from: AndyinCT on February 05, 2020, 08:01:18 AM
I don't mind fixing it - I'm handy with a welder. I also don't need it to be perfect just structurally sound.
Welding skills may be your salvation, just make sure you fully understand how the structure is laid out. You are not the first person to find rust in a bus, just don't spend more than a decade fixing it (because some people have). :o
Also, and being a welder I expect you know this, any time you make a weld on a frame, do your utmost to make sure you don't make vertical welds. The classic example is grafting a replacement stub on one end of a frame rail. Welds should be stretched out in the diagonal to spread the load and avoid creating a stress riser which can lead to cracking. Which is why you used to see diamond shaped frame splices. (sorta frowned on by DOT these days I've heard)
Jim
The MCI 96A used Corten steel 6011 or 7018 is what MCI recommends for welding
Which one you use will depend on whether you have AC or DC equipment. The 6011 will work on AC or DC+, but the 7018 works with DC+, and you have to keep the rods dry. 7018 is a smooth flowing rod, and the metal will be stronger, but if you get the flux moist or it cracks, you have to throw it out.
There's also a 7018AC rod but it isn't as smooth running as 7018 rod on DC. Harder to start, but it can make a good weld once it's going. For MIG I wouldn't trust anything less than a 220v rig for this kind of work.
Jim
unless you are a full time structural welder you are going to have a very hard time welding 7018 out of position.
Also: https://www.keenovens.com/articles/7018-storage.htm
Excellent point, the puddle needs a little support to keep the filler from falling out. Not a great choice for an amateur laying on his back and that bottom edge is going to be a PITA regardless as will the lower diagonal. 7018 would be a challenge there no matter who you are. Might want to pick a rod that is good on overhead welds.
Jim
My preferred rod would be 6013 or 6010, 6013 is really nice to burn on the flat, 6010 better for overhead, depending on experience range.
I have been using LH70 rods 7018 they are called now since the 60's I don't find them that hard to run LH70's is all we ever used to repair heavy equip
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on February 07, 2020, 05:12:40 PM
6013 is really nice to burn on the flat
It sure is nice on clean flat metal, but it does not penetrate as well in any other position. Anyway, he needs the best rod for Corten, and a bus rotater for the vertical welds. :o He might have to pre-fabricate repair panels that don't need vertical welds, or use heavy rivets or bolts. We have not seen pictures yet, it might be very difficult to repair.
Everybody has their favorite rod, I won't go more into that ;)
Andy, could we see some pictures?
This may or may not apply, I've seen Gary and Van at B&B take a front fire and another rear fire buses, both Prevost, cut the bad parts off and marry them together. Probably will cost more than buying another and just transfer all your goodies, lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on February 08, 2020, 09:15:26 AM
This may or may not apply, I've seen Gary and Van at B&B take a front fire and another rear fire buses, both Prevost, cut the bad parts off and marry them together. Probably will cost more than buying another and just transfer all your goodies, lvmci...
Ah those were the days my friend, second chances.
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on February 08, 2020, 06:52:20 AM
Everybody has their favorite rod, I won't go more into that ;)
Andy, could we see some pictures?
No idea why these are upside down...
Take it to a bus body guy.
I've seen ones with all the "lattice" chewed up, welded up and down the road.
There are different acceptable short-cuts to re-inforce all that. Find the old guy who has fixed dozens of these to make the call.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
It's been patched once before so the only way to do it right is slide the engine out and go for it.I have a MCI 9 here at the shop the towing company bent the drivers side engine rail down a 1-1/2 in and inward about 2 inches if the frame guy coming is unable to straighten it with out it breaking. I am going to need to cut the rail out and start over a job I am not crazy about doing because of the cost to the owner the young man has soaked a lot of money into the bus already
Was a little bored around here with a bit of an abundance of free time so i was cruising the forums. I just knew this bus had to be around here somewhere. This is the project i picked up, so now i'll be the one doing the repairs. That lattice in the back is definitely in need of some love. Position isn't great to be worked on but some time with a grinder and a good mig and things should be sturdy if not pretty. Haven't really found much in the front to be overly concerned with. Still, with oil that looks like a defrosted coffee milkshake in the front hubs its all getting torn down before it goes anywhere else and then i can get a much better look at things.