Trying to help a guy check to see if his engine is stuck.
He's got an 8V71 in a Buffalo, mated to a V730. There is a hydraulic fan on the pulley end of the engine.
Where would he turn the thing over from? Is there an access plate on the bell housing where he can use a pry bar, or is there some other place. He's not seeing anything on the end of the crankshaft - seems that the fan drive is in the way.
He should be able to turn it at the pulley nut takes a 1-1/2 socket,
Quote from: luvrbus on January 04, 2020, 02:00:25 PM
He should be able to turn it at the pulley nut takes a 1-1/2 socket,
Which pulley nut? The only one pulley he can find is the one higher up towards the rear cylinder bank. He says that the fan assembly is blocking any access to the crankshaft pulley. Is there one back that that he's missing?
There is a v belt pulley on the lower head camshaft says 8v71 t turn the engine there the muffler may be hiding it they do on a 4106 I can do a photo for you if it helps
Here is the pulley
Sounds like the engine is stuck.
Anyone have a rough guess what the engine/tranny/cradle weighs? How big a forklift is needed? He's thinking of pulling it to take to a heated shop to do the repairs.
Just under 4000 lbs with the cradle
Building the jig for removing the cradle makes life much nicer.
The jig is your engine stand for working on it, helps remove the cradle from the bus, and gives handy safe way to engage the forklift.
Nobody brags of damaging their engine trying to fork it out alone...
The jig plans are in the old maintenance manuals someplace.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on January 05, 2020, 12:17:17 PM
Building the jig for removing the cradle makes life much nicer.
The jig is your engine stand for working on it, helps remove the cradle from the bus, and gives handy safe way to engage the forklift.
Nobody brags of damaging their engine trying to fork it out alone...
The jig plans are in the old maintenance manuals someplace.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I'll pass this along...
If he decides to go the route of removing it, he's going to have to do it while the bus is parked on gravel using a fork lift, and then take it to his shop 100s of miles away. Bus is safe where it is, but too cold for him to continue working outside on it.
I would pull the injectors,, then try to turn it over,, if nada you haven't lost anything.>>>Dan
Hard to damage a 8v71 on the cradle from a GM with a fork lift or a pallet jack,I guess it could happen if you worked at it long enough
It's really not difficult to put jacks under the cradle,, unbolt it,, and push the bus away from it.>>>Dan
That's the way I used to do VW Vans. 8) little easier to push too!
I think he would be better off having it hauled back home. Hauling engine cradle back and forth, although cheaper, would be a major pita due to all the little issues, especially this time of the year.
He does need to get the bus home,because it has major problems and it is not fun working on it the dirt I won't do it .I have a guy in the shop now been here for over a year that is carrying on a long distance 1200 mile relation ship with his bus
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on January 05, 2020, 07:21:12 PM
It's really not difficult to put jacks under the cradle,, unbolt it,, and push the bus away from it.>>>Dan
Worked for us huh Dan but we were on concrete not in the dirt and gravel freezing our @$# off either
Also works well when having all the tools needed on hand.>>>Dan
I have also done it using a friends tow truck hydraulic arm to lift the whole unit,(including the trans) out and back to a staging area... (Put it back in using the same method) >>>Dan
Yes, but in this case, the thing has to come out, get loaded into what conveyance, travel, offload, be placed somewhere, worked on, re-loaded, travel back, off-load and then re-install.
It would be much safer for the assembly and everyone touching it, for it to be on the spec jig.
The opportunity for damage at every move...
And with wheels on the jig, quite a lot less pain in the backside for being in the way while the project evolves.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Sorry to hear, how hard these GM's are to work on.
Our MCI's you just pull the bumper and disconnect two hoses and then unlock the cradle and then they just slide right out on rails. If you unlock the spin Pal you can even rotate the engine to work on the bottom end or pull the left/right / reverse lock and you can turn them around to work on the back of the engine and the transmission. Just push it back in when done and lock it back down.
Oh sorry was have a dream.... ;)
The problem I have with "barring the engine over" with out removing the injectors is the possibility of a cylinder full of a fluid.. With enough "barring" you can bust a piston or worse..>>>Dan
Always turn it backwards first if it is lock up
If I were in this situation, and if it is in a safe location, I would put a big tarp over it and put in a kerosene heater. I've worked on bulldozers and loaders that way in deep snow, which helps to keep the tarp down. I would not be surprised if the real problem is corroded cables and ground contacts not allowing normal cranking. I would open the inspection plates on the sides and see if there are any fluids in the wrong spot, or signs of rust. If barring shows any movement, then a bad starter or bad connections could be it. When was the last time the engine was running?
Quote from: DoubleEagle on January 07, 2020, 10:05:51 AM
If I were in this situation, and if it is in a safe location, I would put a big tarp over it and put in a kerosene heater. I've worked on bulldozers and loaders that way in deep snow, which helps to keep the tarp down. I would not be surprised if the real problem is corroded cables and ground contacts not allowing normal cranking. I would open the inspection plates on the sides and see if there are any fluids in the wrong spot, or signs of rust. If barring shows any movement, then a bad starter or bad connections could be it. When was the last time the engine was running?
The bus had been running earlier in the day, doing about 300 miles towards its new home.
The starter cables and battery cables have been checked, as have the ground cables. He has confirmed that the starter will spin with no load applied, and it was starting the engine earlier in the day. When the starter engages the flywheel it won't turn over the engine. Not a budge. It was puking oil out the filler tube just before all this, and then was getting hot when he shut it down. That's the facts as I know them.
Quote from: richard5933 on January 05, 2020, 12:29:09 PM
I'll pass this along...
If he decides to go the route of removing it, he's going to have to do it while the bus is parked on gravel using a fork lift, and then take it to his shop 100s of miles away. Bus is safe where it is, but too cold for him to continue working outside on it.
Richard- did I miss the location- Wisconsin? I have a cart in Ohio I built for mine. It has screw jacks welded to it that lift the whole assembly out and it rolls away. Obviously a concrete pad is the best, but because it cradles the assembly, you could do it on gravel and use a towmotor to pick up my frame rather than chance bending something on the engine. We rebuilt the engine right on the cart. I'd be willing to part with it if someone needs it to
save a buffalo and is willing to drive to northeast Ohio.
It's somewhere in the NW of the USA. Not sure exactly where. I'm posting questions since he's in an area with nearly non-existent reception and no internet.
Quote from: richard5933 on January 07, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
When the starter engages the flywheel it won't turn over the engine. Not a budge. It was puking oil out the filler tube just before all this, and then was getting hot when he shut it down. That's the facts as I know them.
That does not sound good, at all. I assume this was a recent purchase, and perhaps the previous owner might not have told all. But since he might have crossed some mountains on the way to his breakdown, the engine might have overheated because of not checking fluids, or lugging the engine. The only thing to check where it sits are the inspection plates on the sides to see what has happened. This looks like a disaster that might cost more than it is worth or he can afford. It would be helpful if the exact location of the bus were known in case there is a local bus owner nearby that could help. :(
What could cause oil to puke out the filler tube?
The additional volume of water and antifreeze is one possibility, or a bad seal in the oil fill cap, or extra crankcase pressure.
Quote from: richard5933 on January 07, 2020, 06:36:11 PM
What could cause oil to puke out the filler tube?
He broke a liner
Quote from: zimmysurprise on January 07, 2020, 11:18:14 AM
We rebuilt the engine right on the cart. I'd be willing to part with it if someone needs it to save a buffalo and is willing to drive to northeast Ohio.
And if someone were willing to drive that far, they could swing over to southwest Ohio and pick up a 8V71 from a Model 05 Eagle, if that would work in a Buffalo, and save it.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on January 07, 2020, 07:04:47 PM
And if someone were willing to drive that far, they could swing over to southwest Ohio and pick up a 8V71 from a Model 05 Eagle, if that would work in a Buffalo, and save it.
A ton of work involved doing that Walter
I figured that, but I forgot all about the right to left hand rotation switch-over mess.