Howdy, long time lurker, first time poster :-)
My family and i (wife and 3 kids aged 9-13) currently own a 2008 Winnebago Sightseer 29R while the unit has been great for us in the past I think its time to move up and build a new unit on my own, based on a Prevost chassis.
Currently we do two types of trips in our RV.
- The first (most common for us) is heading into the mountains pulling a flat deck of ATV's and camping in heavily wooded areas where the existing 30' unit its a tight fit already. Its high ground clearance, solar, upgraded battery capacity, large water capacity and ability to run almost all appliances off propane etc make it great for use away from hookups.
- The second use is more long distance. I usually take one month off work a year and we head out in a specific direction without a real plan seeing how far we can get before having to head back. Last year we made it almost all of the way across Canada and back home to Calgary Alberta via the USA stopping off at every possible point along the way. The Previous year we traveled from Calgary down to Mexico and back up along the west coast stopping at every town and city along the way.
While the existing unit we have is great for camping in the mountains i would like to create a better unit for taking long trips in. Hopefully something that the wife and i can use more often once the kids have moved out on their own. At this point i see myself keeping both units unless i could come up with a solution that works for both situations.
Here is a list of things I would like the new unit to have
- Be quite while driving down the road. The Winnebago has hundreds of squeaks that come from the cabinets and windows that drive me insane. Even when the cabinets are empty they squeak as the body twists and moves.
- Solar, with a large battery capacity. I would like go for weeks without connecting to shore power and hopefully not have to run the generator. Our current Winnebago has 500 watts of solar and 4x 6 volt batteries. We can easily camp for weeks without starting the generator even when the weather is bad.
- Appliances that don't require 120Volts. Once again i don't want to require shore power. A propane fridge would be ideal, along with a propane oven and range, furnace, water heater, etc.
- At least 100 Gallons of water storage with a matching 100 Gallon Grey tank, maybe a smaller black tank.
- Storage for at least 80 lbs of propane, dual 40 lbs portable tanks or an automotive tank would be fine
- Has to sleep at least 5, 2 in a queen size or larger bed then bunks for the kids or maybe pull out beds from couches, etc.
- I would like an outdoor kitchen, maybe something that pulls out of the storage bins at the bottom
- I have to be able to tow a toad behind me (currently a Dodge Caravan)
I have been spending a lot of time looking at the local (and not so local) classifieds and there are a quite a few Prevost chassis (old passenger buses) for sale. The closest to me is a 2000 PREVOST H3-41, they are asking 25K CAD for. If i am willing to fly and drive back (2000KM) the bus unit i can pick up a 1999 Prevost H3-45 for the same price. Both units have around 570,000Km on them which i believe is pretty low for a bus of this type and age. My understanding is that the H3-41 unit's were only available in Canada and are 4' shorter then the H3-45. They have one less bin under the chassis. In addition to the buss i have been considering buying a written off 5th wheel for parts. This would provide me with kitchen stove, furnace, water heater, fridge, and maybe some cabinets, etc that i can reuse.
I plan to buy a unit that it still setup as a passenger bus, remove the seats, flatten out the floor, modify the existing bathroom plumbing to suit, add new wiring as required, build the interior space. I have the skills for all of that, i work on cars all the time and have built a kit car before, i have finished basements and helped build houses in the past and best of all I own all of the required tools.
Now to the questions i have:
- Has anyone had experience with both the H3-41 and H3-45. Are there any differences between the units other then the 4' of length. Would the 4' of additional length make the unit harder to get into cities/campgrounds? What would you choose if you were me:-)?
- Is it common to setup these units to work without shore power? Running mostly on Propane? Where are propane tanks usually mounted, would i need to remove one of the storage bins underneath or find a way to vent it?
- What is the range of money usually spent on a DIY conversion. I was hoping to pull this off for $120K or so, is this reasonable? I don't need it to look like a luxury home, just livable :-) (My time is free)
- Do people with Prevost ever try to pull off the road and into random camping areas, how much of a problem is the ground clearance. I understand that there are airbags that can increase the clearance, do all Prevost buses have airbags? How high do they go?
- Many of the buses that i find have a wheel chair lift mounted to a separate door on the side of the bus, is it best to avoid these buses? Do people just remove these lifts?
- What is the interior height of the H3-41 and H3-45? are they the same? I am 6'2" will the height be a problem?
- Ideally adding a slide or two would be great but i'm not sure it would be worth the cost/time. Does anyone offer a kit for adding a slide that comes with the bearings, seals, hydraulics or motors, etc? I realize this would require a lot of fabrication and welding.
- Many of the campgrounds i have been to in the USA have rules restricting units that are older then 10 years. Do they try to enforce these rules for Prevost buses as well? I understand there are update kits that replace the rear fiberglass and front fiberglass to make it look like the newer model, i guess this upgrade could be done, then you could just tell them its new..... is this 10 year old limit a problem?
- The existing bathroom on the bus must have a black tank, water tank, water pump, grey tank? How much of that is usable when converting the unit over. I would like to move the bathroom closer to the center of the bus, will this matter?
I have a lot more questions :-) but i think that's a good place to start.
The H-41 were available in the US also I owned 1 they are good buses ,the over engineered air system can be a real PITA though.For 120k just buy a converted Prevost on the VIP motor home chassis with low miles and go unless you just like pain and misery .A 1994 VIP Prevost with the series 60 engine with low miles is a better choice than a worn out charter line bus with a million miles on it for sure
By air system do you mean the air braking system or the Aircond system?
120K is the high end of what i would spend, if i can do it cheaper then great. To be honest I do enjoy what you call Pain and Misery, powering through problems is most of the fun. In the end i will know more about how the systems work then i ever would if i bought a completed one.
All of the charter buses i have looked at are under 360K Miles. My understanding is that these chassis can get up into the millions of miles with proper maintenance, i don't see myself even doubling the mileage to 720K. What is the average life of one of these chassis? have people had problems with key parts wearing out under 500K miles?
There are a few completed Prevost motorhomes for sale in my area as well. All of them need a lot of work and have a lot of outdated tech/style. TBH if i saw the perfect unit at the perfect price i still might not buy it, converting it myself is what i am looking forward to the most! :-)
The air system in a bus controls the suspension, the brakes, and a lot of accessories. As Luvrbus says, Prevost cars are over engineered and complex, and overrated in my opinion. But a lot of people like them. They are a good bus since the 1990s. Prior to that, not so much. Do not limit your horizon to Prevost. MCI cars are really a good, basic bus that is easy to work on, with good factory support for 20 year old units or less. Lots of used parts too, because there are so many of them in the US and Canada.
Save yourself a lot of time and money, and buy an already converted bus that is close to what you want/need. They are 50 cents or less on the dollar. You will have lots to do to modify it anyway.
The ideal coach in my opinion is a diesel electric, no propane. That is one with a diesel boiler like a Webasto or ProHeat or the like to do all your heat requirements: engine pre heat, hot domestic water, cabin heat, etc. And a diesel generator in the 8 to 12 kw range to run everything when boondocking. The more batteries the better. And solar panels to take advantage of sunny days.
I am near Blackie about 3/4 hour from you. Private message me and I could show you mine, and talk about buses if you like. Although I am really busy now driving grain trucks.
JC
Beware the mileage claims on seated coaches.
How the blazes did the original owner pay for the coach, if they weren't running 80- 100k miles per year?
Miles on engine? Miles showing on the 3rd speedometer/odometer that's been in the dash?
Get a download from the engine computer. How long attached, how many miles...
At least you can confirm or deny what's gone on with the engine...
Prevost wallow on highway ramps. Only because they offer lucrative terms for the converters, and hence the market, do we end up thinking they are the height.
I'll take an MCI thank you. Line run and commuter work is a tough life, note who rules that market...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Mileage and care are utmost, rust a close second, if you can find a factory conversion, it will be the best opportunity for the least amount of problems DD series 60 or newer if you can find it, speak to JC and take him with you to look at the coach, don't start with the $125K thought to purchase, lots of good conversions already done for sale, go to some bus rallys, drive as many as possible before committing, lvmci...
Thats a good point on checking to make sure mileage is real. I will have to do some research on how to pull mileage from the ECU. I doubt these buses support ODB2. I bet i can find a local bus mechanic that could inspect the bus before i buy it. Rust is a big problem here, i would never by a vehicle without getting under it and looking for rust. :-)
The two buses i was looking at are both Detroit Diesel series 60 with 6 speed Allison transmissions. From what i have read that is a reliable setup.
Honestly i didn't expect the masses here to be so against converting a bus on my own. Buying someone elses conversion or an old professional conversion doesn't really appeal to me. I understand it may be cheaper, I understand it may be less work. However the pride of ownership value wouldn't be there, at least for me.
A little about me: When i came to the point in my life that i could have bought a high end sports car, i didn't, i bought all the parts to build one from scratch. I didn't start with an old rusted body, I started from a roll cage and even though that project isnt quite finished yet, it still brings me pride to show my family and friends its progress.
The more i think about it the more i don't think 41 feet is going to be enough unless it has slides. I have watched several youtube videos where slide systems were added to a variety of types of RV's. Used buses with slides in Canada seem to be $200K or more, and i would want to gut the complete unit anyway. If i were to build my slides i would need a barn or large indoor warehouse to store the RV for the 6 months or more that it would take me to build the framework and get the bus exterior sealed again. It would also take this project from a 1 year project to a potential 2 year project. Maybe i should work on securing some space to work on the project next.
Does anyone have any answers for my original questions?
As for slides the Prevost motor home shells were the only chassis designed for slides with a beam from front to the rear the passenger's carrying buses are not,you would need to buy a electric slide mechanism from some outfit like HappyJack because HWH will not sell you a hydraulic slide.You cannot tell for sure how many miles are on a bus by lifting the info from the ECU ,California is the place to buy a 2000 to 2002 bus they selling for under 10k to get them out of state from the CARB ruling and no rust either
Interesting. I just checked out https://happijac.com/2011-08-15-13-57-08.html (https://happijac.com/2011-08-15-13-57-08.html) That unit looks perfect for the bedroom. Mounted under the bed and bolted directly through the floor.
The beam in the floor of the RV model, that's interesting. First i have head of that, but it does make sense that more reinforcement would be required. Do you have any diagrams on the size of that beam or where that beam is located, does it run down the center of the bus or are there 2, one under each side of the bus to take the stress that the walls would normally pick up?
I found this photo online, this person had removed the skin to install slides.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sellabus.com%2Ftumlinson.jpg&hash=3e58eb58946a7cdfb0dd61a1a2518828d12f7d70)
I think steel would have to be added above the slide as well to stop the roof from sagging. It should be possible to add the same beam that Prevost adds by removing the floor and bringing it in though the front windshield hole.
Still not sure on the whole side idea, I found a company online that says they will install slides in an Prevost chassis for $1400 a foot. That company was in the USA so it doesn't do me any good but if they can do it then someone local can, or i can :-)
This might be the project that makes me move to an acreage and buy a barn :-)
Be thankful that the $1400.00 per ft is in the USA that way you don't deal with Sam Walker
Remember, the people who do things, don't have time for idle chit chat...
If a busnut isn't in the frame of mind to do another one, they will advise in that direction.
if doing the build is your passion, then absolutely get building!
You already know camping.
There are quite a few busnuts who launch into this and don't know how they are going to use the coach, because they don't know camping.
TONS of former busnuts move on to the next inspiring hobby, and we don't hear from them anymore.
Find LOTS of people who HATE SLIDES, and listen to their reasons. Real former owners, not repeaters. It is a large undertaking, and if those things are likely to come to pass, might be good to learn vicariously rather than first hand?
Make sure the ones who do LIKE THEIR SLIDES have enough experience and mileage with them that they just haven't learned yet... and aren't still trying to justify it all to themselves out loud...
And pick YOUR middle ground.
The only person who needs to be happy through it, and at the other end, is YOU. By extension, that also includes the long suffering ADMIRAL...
We have seen a number of home-built slides in various stages of completion swing past bus rallies... and don't see them again. Where did they go? Where did the coach go?
Nobody brags about it when stuff doesn't work out the way they hoped.
The available information is skewed, unfair representation, fake news, bad data...
The archives make for some fascinating reading, both here and at BNO, slides have been discussed at length back there somewhere in the last 20 years a few times.
Don't let us dampen your enthusiasm, we're all damaged goods...
Bus damaged?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Very rare to see a picture of a slide run in to travel position in the rv and travel trailer industry. Good luck getting a dealer to run one in at an rv show.
I built a slide in a 1990 m c i 102 c3 because of the extra roof support and because of the 3 " in extra height that the bus came with .
It was a lot of work and I built in 5 adjustment points in case I needed to adjust it but in the 10 years we used the coach I never needed to adjust it .
The biggest reason I built from a bus was because I wanted as much insulation as I could get and I wanted full floor heat ( I would not do floor heat again ) as it worked awesome when driving but it took to long to feel the heat when champing .
I had $ 110 k in it when I sold it after 10 years and sold it fo $ 58 k
I would buy a already built unit and rip out and change what you want and make it the way you want . way way less money and time and the way I did it on the coach I have now is after I did the bulk of the redo I do a project each year between camping seasons .
The biggest reason I changed from the m c i was I wanted way way more power and this was the best way I could do it with out spending a ton of money
There a ton of 1998 - 2003 ( no emission crap ) units out there with very low mileage on them that need a gut job but everything is already there to reuse so you will save a ton of money and time . with all the changes I have made to mine I have less then $ 80 k invested now . The only thing that I do not like is the 45' length but then again it is only 3.5 ' longer then the m c i but WAY more power and a lot newer engine and transmission
All said I do miss the work involved on the build of the m c i but at the time I had a large garage that the m c i was built in and with help from some workers and friends it only took 1 year to build
I could not find any pics of the outside of the slide but it was 24" deep x 13' long
hope this helps
dave
more pics
no workin ?
Hi grifter, There is a prevost stripped down to the bones in Las Vegas. He also has a MCI 9, that he has had for a while. Done by an electrician a car hobbiest, comes with a great deal parts,I will p.m. you wheni find his name and phone, tom, lvmci...
Thanks for all of the input.
Buswarior: I see what your saying about the slides, getting them to seal, and work reliably will be a difficult hill to climb, learning from people that have built them before and have put them through their paces will be important.
Chessie4405: I know what you mean about seeing RV's with slides in. My current Sightseer has 2 slides, both on the same side. The slides also don't protrude excessively from the side of the RV. This allows the RV to still be usable with the slides in. I imagine units with 3 slides are pretty tight with the slides in.
Sledhead: your slide looks great. Do you have any photos of the manufacturing process... maybe something with the framework visible?
lcmci: Sounds great, i live in Canada, Las Vegas isn't too far away. I have imported a few vehicles over the years and its not without its challenges. If the vehicle still runs and drives its much easier and will just require an inspection when it gets here. So tires/windshield/brakes/lights/horn/bushings/etc all have to be perfect within a short window of it being imported or they will require it be exported back to the USA.
Doing your own conversion is appealing within the confines of your own mind, but in reality, it will take a long, long time. Economically, it does not make sense, given the prices of decent conversions for sale. Let someone else pay for all those wonderful upgrades. Buy a conversion for pennies on the original dollars, and make subtle changes over time to make it yours. The layouts on most conversions are very similar, despite all the attempts to be original. Be practical and consider MCI's, Prevost's will suck your money up quickly, their air bag valve system is a nightmare of complexity. ::)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on September 09, 2019, 04:38:50 PM
Buy a conversion for pennies on the original dollars, and make subtle changes over time to make it yours.
Is there a reason you want a Prevost over the other brands ?
Are you going to need more than average ground clearance ?
Are slides really needed? Sometimes, less clunky furniture & trim can diminish the need for extra width . . . .
The cost of a shop & tools will be substantial.
As others have said - the opinions of you & the Admiral are the only ones that matter.
Very recently I was looking at purchasing a late 1990's Prevost H3-41. My offer was rejected but I was prepared to meet the asking price when I decided to investigate whether I could get opening side windows with screens. Peninsula Glass used to manufacture windows that replaced the curved H3-41 side windows but when I contacted them they indicated that they no longer manufacture windows for Prevost H3 buses. Further searches found no windows. I contacted the Prevost builders forum and inquired there about where I could source the side windows. The only response I received was to buy them from Prevost. On contacting Prevost Parts, the person indicated opening windows were available but they were a little pricey. List price is $16,000 per window but they would sell them for $8,000 each. As I would need 4 to 6 windows that was an atrocious cost just for windows.
Maybe others are aware of a source for Prevost side windows but I have given up on purchasing a Prevost H3-41, although I very much like the look of that unit. I am now looking for a late 1990's MCI 102D3 but it must be rust free.
There is a 2001 H-45 entertainer with bunks for sale on F/B he asking a 100k and I bet 80 to 85k will buy it,those are not hard to change floor plans and usually have everything shower,bathroom,tanks, generator and so on
The Prevost I was talking about looks like the picture on your fourth topic reply, he said the engine worked great when he pulled it into his bus barn, and it's surrounded by all kinds of parts utilities, cabinets, air conditioners, everything you might imagine, I hope you got my private message , lvmci...
Plenty of Frenchy busses on Ebay motors waiting for a home,some 80 percent completed most with the 60 series.
Slides require some mechanical ability. I'm on 4th and last. Do lean toward Prevost for modifications. Plus I like the stainless riveted coach.. 60 series with 10sp Eaton auto shift. Haven't been to 10th yet- start in third set back and watch traffic. Visit prevostcar.com.. check out their website site. Circuit is and wires are numbered on Prevost. Guide available to you coach specific. haven't seen any Prevost with engine on ground from rusted frame. windshields less than $200 delivered to you(xle) Entertaner coach would really have to be very low mileage. H series when they catch fire basically burn to ground. BW and others will get kicked out of this post! I have done MCI and prevost. If you parked for 6 weeks slides are great. Down road would preferred not to have them.. 60 series -- no doubt unless you can get Cat engine..air system on Prevost =keep it moisture free--norgren valves can be refurbish for $11 each or bought new for $60.Mileage 18mpg-- 9 there and 9 back=18. some have flurted with elusive 10 mpg-- I plan on 7-8.
build time over 1/2 dedicated to slides.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 09, 2019, 07:57:59 PM
There is a 2001 H-45 entertainer with bunks for sale on F/B he asking a 100k and I bet 80 to 85k will buy it,those are not hard to change floor plans and usually have everything shower,bathroom,tanks, generator and so on
I dont have face book, where is this unit? What facebook page is it on, i can get my wife to look it up. do you have more information about it that you can send me?
All of the information you guys have been posting is great. I like the Prevost chassis for a few reasons, most of all is how it looks quite frankly. I have never been a fan of the stainless steel look or buses that have an older look to them. Second i have read a lot of good things about their quality. I never even considered windows that open however i have seen some mods where the rear windows are replaced with RV windows that dont curve over the top and that does look pretty good.
Kyle4501: Ground clearance is a concern. My Current RV is quite high and i do scrape occasionally when entering parking lots or trying to get into some campsites. The thought of getting high centered is a bit of a fear of mine.
I'm still not sold on the idea of slides, I started drawing some scale(ish) diagrams of possible layouts to get a better idea of what i can do with or without slides. The Master bedroom seems to be the hardest to configure while still having room around the Bed and a place to hang clothing. Having a slide in the bedroom really helps, when the slide is in the bed touches the cabinets, opening the slide gives that extra space to open the cabinets and walk around the bed.
Does anyone know the interior dimensions of the raw H-45 and H-41 shell? How much is lost to the engine cavity and the front driver area? I made some guesses but accurate numbers will be better for drawing out possible floor plans.
Where are you located?
Quote from: grifter on September 10, 2019, 09:10:17 PM
I dont have face book, where is this unit? What facebook page is it on, i can get my wife to look it up. do you have more information about it that you can send me?
All of the information you guys have been posting is great. I like the Prevost chassis for a few reasons, most of all is how it looks quite frankly. I have never been a fan of the stainless steel look or buses that have an older look to them. Second i have read a lot of good things about their quality. I never even considered windows that open however i have seen some mods where the rear windows are replaced with RV windows that dont curve over the top and that does look pretty good.
The H-45 for sale is located in Jones OK look on Facebook Market Place ,the H-45 is a heavy sucker on the front axle and the passenger H-45 will have a straight front axle not a IFS
,if converting I would prefer the H models also even with the fiberglass siding the thing I don't like is the roof not being 1 level on the outside .
Even with the series 60 DD and the Alllison you need to watch the mileage and get all the records the series 60 usually are on their last leg in a bus at 600 to 700,000 miles and the Allison either the B500 or 4000 series the life span on one is around 400 to 500,000 miles
Kyle4501: Ground clearance is a concern. My Current RV is quite high and i do scrape occasionally when entering parking lots or trying to get into some campsites. The thought of getting high centered is a bit of a fear of mine.
I'm still not sold on the idea of slides, I started drawing some scale(ish) diagrams of possible layouts to get a better idea of what i can do with or without slides. The Master bedroom seems to be the hardest to configure while still having room around the Bed and a place to hang clothing. Having a slide in the bedroom really helps, when the slide is in the bed touches the cabinets, opening the slide gives that extra space to open the cabinets and walk around the bed.
Does anyone know the interior dimensions of the raw H-45 and H-41 shell? How much is lost to the engine cavity and the front driver area? I made some guesses but accurate numbers will be better for drawing out possible floor plans.
LOL I posted the location of the H for sale in the middle of the last post and do not know how to move it ::) you may get the lower section windsheilds for 200 bucks on a H on sale but don't bank on it those are a pain to install
Quote from: luvrbus on September 11, 2019, 05:26:11 AM
LOL I posted the location of the H for sale in the middle of the last post and do not know how to move it ::)
No worries i found your response in the middle :-)
Quote from: Van on September 10, 2019, 09:43:52 PM
Where are you located?
Calgary Alberta Canada
What about A slide out the back above the engine for the bed, if your bus radiator is on the side below..
Grifter, just know a few things:
For years now we see quite the flock of people join the site, with tons of enthusiasm, ask all of the exact same questions you're asking, kick the tires of dozens of buses, and then they disappear months later....
A small percentage of those people actually buy a coach...
A smaller percentage actually start the conversion process...
A smaller percentage actually finish the conversion to a level that is useable...
A smaller percentage of those actually keep their coach for more than a year or two and become amazing valuable contributors to the forum.
That's why the responses you're seeing. Just a weeding process. And even if it's beweildering to you, some of these real to life discussions have saved countless people from making an expensive mistake and getting a bus that they would have never ever been able to finish converting and using. If you can weed out and deter those who aren't fully committed to the major pain in the bum it is to convert and own a coach, then you're helping humanity lol. So take it with a grain of salt. If you're destined to be part of the 1% club who buy, convert, use, and keep their coach, congrats. If not, then "we told you so".
Ok now that I've got it out of my system:
30ft was was tight in your campgrounds if choice. A bus ain't gonna work in those campgrounds if that's the case.
Head up into the mountains... if you're regularly driving mountains, absolutely don't buy a two stroke bus. Just don't. 60 series, Cummins cat...anything but a two stroke.
If you want to enjoy camping with your coach in the next 5 or 6 years, forget about adding a slide and just convert it. Or buy one with a slide already in. Monocoque chassis are not easy to add slides to. Both my coaches have had roof raises and I can tell you from experience that the body does weird things when you start cutting it.
Don't ever ever believe these coaches have the mileage on them that the odometer says they do. If they are seated coaches, the odo is lying. Add a million miles to every odo number you see and that's your mileage. Unless you're buying a newer coach, there ain't no way on earth it only has 500,000 miles. Nope no way.
Don't try to compare building a sports car with building a bus. If you go forward with this, you'll agree with me someday. We had a guy a few years ago say the exact same thing..."I've built a sports car from the ground up so I can convert a bus" and he never pulled it off. Just not the same. Not even close.
I'm an MCI guy. Converted and fulltimed now in two different ones. But I do look at Prevosts and wish...so I'm on the same page as you in which brand you want to convert. I would stick with the shortest length you can find just because it appears you like to camp more than glamp so you'll find that even a 40 foot coach is tight in a lot of campgrounds. Rv parks have no issues with larger rigs though.
No matter what you buy, if it's a seated coach, pull the floor. They are nasty underneath. You can insulate, run some wiring chases, etc. Don't skip this step. So many people do. Pull the floor.
That's my advice.
10-4
With all that weight hanging from the back, consider carefully before doing any cutting or modifying back there.
Take everything said in this forum with a grain of salt. Including this. Scott is both right and wrong but he did the right thing to warn you.
I'm one of those in the midst of a conversion, perhaps it is 10:1 I won't finish it but I'll take those odds, they are much better than other odds I've beaten in the past. Still, recognize that it is a long and difficult path and time is your biggest enemy. I'm on a 5 year plan and will be 70 by the time I'm finished. I hope to have about 20 years to enjoy the results but you never know do you? Still, If you have adequate funding up front and you stay healthy and motivated there's no reason why in 5 or ten years you can't have exactly what you wanted. Not willing to wait that long? Might want to consider buying one that's done. I intend to enjoy the process, and hope I'll have no real need for it before it's due date.
"Not like building a sports car." Both true and false. In either case you can easily spend $100 doing it. Or more. Or less. In either case you need the same skill set to overcome unforseen challenges. Obviously the scale is much greater, you have to incorporate some home construction, and a number of systems are unique to the bus and/or trucking, plus others unique to RVs. Still, the same old 'divide and conquer' approach holds true.
As for the coach of choice, being in Canada there is a distinct bias towards Prevost. Whether or not that is justified is for you to say. Down here in the states it is not, except for the category of ostentatiousness and conspicuous consumption. I'm not saying anything negative about Prevost, but you can get an equally suitable coach (and some would argue better) for considerably less money. Where you are it may be different. If you are willing to spend the bucks just to be able to say you have something that most others do not, well that's your choice but I have better things to spend my hard earned dollars on. In my opinion. You don't have to agree.
Sliders: Just don't do it. Yeah, it's cool and all but do you really need the room? A 102x45 is a BIG bus. Why invite leaks, structural instability, and mechanical complexity into your life while setting your build schedule back by years and tacking on additional huge expenses when the end is somewhat uncertain anyway? If it's a must have, buy one that's already done.
Ripping out the interior: Why? Oh right, you are in the great white north. OK, Nevermind. I lean towards the ABDFI school but then I never was a fan of cold weather.
Anyway there must be at least 3 of us on this board who were able to buy good solid, usable 102DL3s for around $6K or less. Something to think about.
Jim
Converting a bus does not need to take 5 years. When I converted my GMPD 4106 in 1987 I was working 6 days a week in my own business and did the conversion in a year working on it evenings and weekends. Granted, it doesn't have any of the modern electyrics like inverters etc(not common at the times) but it does have everything else. AND, there wasn't the tremendous knowlege from forums like this at the time.Heck, Bus Conversion Magazine hadn't even started yet. So all the knowlege I needed came from looking at motorhomes, trailers and campers. With the exception of slides I would suggest 2 years should be the maximum time needed to complete a conversion if you kept at it.I should also mention the bus I bought was purchased from a shop that specialized in bus remodeling and repair so had been gone thru mechanically before I bought.it. I was also 45 y.o. :)
And if you want further encouragement go to "Beginning from this Morning" This family is converting a 4106 that he anticipated would take a year. Its going to be 2 years but they can only work on it weekends due to HOA restrictions and he has put in the total lithium battery pack from a Leaf as well as a whole roof covered in a double layer of solar panels that automatically extend not to mention a host of other electronic capabilities.Not only does he tells you what he does but also shows you HOW he did it in videos.So it is possible.
This has turned into a very good and interesting conversation.
Scott, I don't agree that 2 stroke Detroits are not good in the mountains. They have been pushing buses and trucks up big hills for decades. They just need to be well maintained, and driven properly.
Jim, I don't see how being from Canada would bias anybody toward Prevost, since MCIs are also built in Canada.
A friend of mine converted a Prevost XLII from scratch in 6 months, evenings and weekends. Other people never finish in a lifetime. But in the last 15 years or so, an already converted bus is WAY cheaper than doing it yourself. So doing it yourself doesn't make any sense. Plus if you bought one already done today, you could be camping in it tonight.
JC
The trouble is that you buy one already converted today, and have no money left to use it or fuel it😬
I spent 10 years converting my bus. The first 5 were spent rebuilding everything mechanical from the engine to the front end; plus outside skins and paint. Then I did the storage bays to house tanks, the generator/inverter as I planned out the floor plan. Finally, the interior (which I consider wonderful).
I could not repeat this again. I love what I have and it's my forever bus conversion.
To the OP: Buy one already converted with low miles, change to suit.
Soooo now you got the whole picture... Welcome to the choice ---build to full fill a hobby= buy to enjoy the hobby before kids get to old and leave before you get finished.....Lots of old guys ageing out that can pass a good coach on! Personally my heirs have the problem. Now it don't cost but about $500 a year to sit (tax and insurance) Good place to go to get out of house....Would they think of putting me in bus and covering us up? Big dang hole.
Lots of good ways to go about this. It all depends on where you gain the most enjoyment. Do you get your pleasure from the process or the result?
JC,
Of course...and Model A's have been crossing the Rockies for years too. I'm so sick of watching the temp gauge...having to pull over on a hot day and a long grade...can't find a mechanic to ever work on a two stroke...heck even when I do, they want $150 an hour shop rate versus $90 for a truck. I drive my bus 15-20,000 miles a year and I am always dreading the next breakdown...next tow...the next set of phone calls to find a two stroke mechanic. Ugh. I can't wait to sell my bus and get a truck.
Scott: I can't wait to get my bus running! :P
OK, back to a question I can answer. Slides: RUN AWAY!! After working on the framework of my Eagle more then i care to admit I would not want to put a slide in any bus. My brain just doesn't see how the bus could be anywhere as strong as before with a slide in the side...
4 things it takes to convert a bus (IMO) 1. TIME 2. $$$$ 3. TIME 4. $$$$ and a little basic knowledge of mechanical things. (Did i mention that is takes time to convert a bus?)
Of course, changing the engine takes more time and $$$$$$$, so please buy a bus with the engine you want. ;D lol
my 2 bits
Lol. You're right about the dollars lol. Lots of dollar signs if you drive it a lot. I will say, to counter my negativity a little, that I love a couple of specific things about my bus. Remember, I have a wife and two little girls ages 19mo and 3 yrs and we are fulltimers. I LOVE that my spray foamed coach is quiet. I can park at a truck stop and all four of us sleep like babies. None of my friends RV's are this sound proof. It's awesome. I also love that my coach rides down the road quietly. No major squeaks or rattles. Lots of wind noise but it rides soft and nice. I also love that this coach has huge luggage bays. I have 150 gallons of water and 150 gallons of fresh grey combo and that's just a lot of water/holding tank ability. I even stuffed a 40 gallon water heater under there. My coach feels like a house with a washer and dryer and full house kitchen. I love that it stays planted in high winds when rvs are rocking back and forth. Lots of things to love as a fulltimer...but if I just used it occasionally to camp, I'd be in a normal rv.
Yeah slides would be nice as I bought a brand New Alfa fifthwheel in 2006 while building a new house and that puppy had slides all over and was nice. Like a small apartment . Never pulled it up and down the road so didn't know how it would hold up. Heard the rubber/air seals on the Prevost's slides where a pain and expensive to replace. Oh and Scott feel the same about the 8V92TA's and finding someone to work on them. Haven't had any problem with mine since blower seal replacement down in san antone a couple years back but you never know. I say if you have the time and money on the slide build, go for it. I'd buy. 8)
Scott, de tune the engine 100 hp and your heating woes will be over. Horsepower makes heat in all diesels. Fact of life. Also do you have an air cooled oil cooler? So, you lose 5 mph on the hills... and engine will last longer.
Before you make a decision, carefully calculate just how it costs to travel anywhere@ 6-8 miles per gallon, the cost of diesel fuel, and don't forget insurance, if you can even get it. Then calculate how much it costs to take a 500 mile trip. Many of us got into conversions when fuel was one to two bucks a gallon. Make sure you have a place to store it while working on it. Some localities won't allow an unconverted coach.
I have a theory about fuel prices. Can you say "Manipulated"? Funny how they go up and down if you watch the pattern. Seems like every 30-40 years or so, just about when you'd expect the old guard to retire and the young guns to come aboard we see a spike. Up to about $5 a gallon last time around. Sheesh, talk about overly optimistic. Then the economy crashes and the only way to recover is to lower the fuel prices. Odd how they've dropped gradually to about $2.30 a gallon? I don't think so. Meanwhile the other commodity prices that were driven up by fuel costs stay up. I mean, why wouldn't they right? Uncertainty in the fuel prices does that. So there's no way fuel prices can come back down to where they started. As always, wages are the last thing to increase so everybody gets caught in the squeeze and the recovery takes a decade or two before things get back on an even keel again. Everybody pays. Including the young guns who thought all this was such a good idea to start with. So how was it again that greed is good? Those who don't learn from history, etc, etc. We can expect to see the same cycle start all over again in, oh maybe 2-3 decades if we are lucky. Those of us who are still around. Why can't those arsholes at the top TEACH their children something important for once?
Jim
Thanks for all the great replies, work had me away from home for the last 10 days so i am just catching up now.
I am starting this project by drawing up some scale drawings to see if i can make everything i want work without slides. I agree with everyone that slides are complicated and add complexity and maintenance, but its possible they may be required depending on how i can make this all fit.
I have been keeping my eye on whats for sale. I found a 1991 H3-41 already converted over to an RV for $99K, might be worth going to look at, although $99K seems like to much for something i want to rip apart and reconfigure, its also 9 years older then the chassis i was looking at before. Its only a 3 hour drive away, maybe the are willing to take less. I'm not sure how long ago it was converted, the interior looks like late 90's early 2000's.
If i do find a used chassis does anyone here know how to confirm mileage claims? Do the 1996 and newer buses have OBD2? or is the computer system proprietary? Does the ECU contain the Bus VIN as well so i can confirm that it has not been swapped out with a lower mileage unit.
You need to assess the condition of the components of the bus in question, and not be overly concerned about mileage. Actually inspect a number of buses (and not just one make), and when you have a candidate, have a qualified mechanic check it out. Yes, $99,000 is way too much to spend on a bus you are going to tear apart. Forget slides, unless you want trouble. :o
Slides are ok if factory the home brew slides can be a nightmare Prevost never had factory slides till 2001 or 2002 FWIW.Some of the factory class A motor homes are well built if you buy the upper end like Foretravel,Country Coach and Newell.I don't have a problem with those,we are trying to close a deal on a 2007 Country Coach 45 ft Rembrandt with 4 slides,600 hp Cummins ISX engine not a bus but built from the ground up with 42,000 miles and don't forget about the BlueBird those are also good