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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: mqbus767 on August 04, 2019, 10:48:56 PM

Title: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 04, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
I'll need to replace the windshield gasket on my 2001 DL3. The replacement gasket is a single piece with a loop around the "windscreen" (hole that the destination sign sits in. Since I've plated over the opening with some sheet metal, I no longer need the upper part of the gasket.

My question is has anyone reset their windshields using universal windshield gasket material similar to this?

https://www.amazon.com/Window-locking-windshield-windows-equipment/dp/B00NUHRFYE/

I don't have a good feeling about ordering a replacement gasket from MCI and then immediately cutting the to portion off.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: chessie4905 on August 05, 2019, 04:18:31 AM
My nephew replaced the windshield gaskets with this on his 4104. He reused the "t's" from the old gasket. Said it works fine. Then, he discovered that Luke just received new gaskets for GM's, which were unavailable.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: buswarrior on August 05, 2019, 05:28:09 AM
The newer D models don't have the upper windscreen.

Check that all the D use the same windshield, then the newer gasket, without windscreen, should do what you want.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on August 05, 2019, 06:29:27 AM
Quote from: mqbus767 on August 04, 2019, 10:48:56 PMI'll need to replace the windshield gasket on my 2001 DL3. The replacement gasket is a single piece with a loop around the "windscreen" (hole that the destination sign sits in. Since I've plated over the opening with some sheet metal, I no longer need the upper part of the gasket.... 

    Is a photo available showing the "windscreen" with the "windshield"?  I'm lost.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: chessie4905 on August 05, 2019, 06:43:36 AM
https://www.google.com/search?q=image+of+2001+dl3+mci&oq=image+of+2001+dl3+mci&aqs=chrome..69i57.18725j0j4&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=HJ2ikGlBBtHQnM:

Looks like you could just cut off top of factory gasket. However, he may be looking for a cheaper solution.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on August 05, 2019, 07:12:55 AM
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 05, 2019, 06:43:36 AM
https://www.google.com/search?q=image+of+2001+dl3+mci&oq=image+of+2001+dl3+mci&aqs=chrome..69i57.18725j0j4&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=HJ2ikGlBBtHQnM: ...

   Thanks, but none of these seem to show the part in question and there are lots of different photos, some with "split-windshields" and some with one-piece windshields.  I suppose that it doesn't help that I wouldn't know a 2001 DL3 if it ran over me.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: Jim Blackwood on August 05, 2019, 08:38:25 AM
Mine's a '96 and it has a separate glass piece above the twin windshields that has been painted black on the inside. (I think it is a single piece)

I also need to replace the driver's side windshield but am putting it off for awhile.

Jim
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 05, 2019, 09:57:02 AM
Here's the illustration and parts list from the manual/catalog. The "windscreen" is the rectangular window above the two windshields.

I'd like to use the universal stuff because it's cheaper, but I imagine I'll have difficulty at the corners where the gasket would have to be mitered.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: chessie4905 on August 05, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
Everybody takes pictures of the fronts from 2 angles providing poor detailed image.

https://www.busesandmore.com/mci-model-specifications/
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: buswarrior on August 05, 2019, 01:51:40 PM
The earlier generation D model had a full width piece above the 2 windshields.

Not to be confused with a regional transit destination sign option, with the whole front of the roof formed around the sign window.

The third piece makes trouble, and was abandonned in favour of a solid roof, very similar rounding to the old GM 4104... aerodynamics is aerodynamics...

Leaks, sunshine pounding in, wouldn't stay in the rubber seal, and all of ours were some sort of plastic, which starts showing the strain of all that sun and wind loading, as the years go by.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 05, 2019, 02:13:51 PM
Indeed. Called MCI and they confirmed that the style without the "windscreen" is more of the factory design. The windscreen/sign hole was added to accomodate transit needs. Anyways, the part number for the gasket without the windscreen is 03-27-1742. The rep on the phone said the nominal thickness for the glass in this bus is 1/4". He could not confirm the thickness of the frame, so I'll have to research that more.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: Jcparmley on August 05, 2019, 06:55:03 PM
Please let us know when you figure this out.  I need to do the same thing.  I need a new gasket but I am covering up the upper windscreen. 

Quote from: mqbus767 on August 05, 2019, 02:13:51 PM
Indeed. Called MCI and they confirmed that the style without the "windscreen" is more of the factory design. The windscreen/sign hole was added to accomodate transit needs. Anyways, the part number for the gasket without the windscreen is 03-27-1742. The rep on the phone said the nominal thickness for the glass in this bus is 1/4". He could not confirm the thickness of the frame, so I'll have to research that more.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: lvmci on August 07, 2019, 08:16:38 AM

Gasket is gone, thanks for the interest, lvmci...

Hi All, I received a new windshield gasket (FENCE is what MCI calls it) new sealed in a box with this clean tear, then they shipped an unbroken one to me. This clean break could be fixed with crazy glue I think. It's for a 102C3, but should work on all MCI 102s and some 96s, it's yours for $50 plus shipping, PM me, lvmci...
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: luvrbus on August 07, 2019, 08:43:24 AM
C's and D's take the same gasket and windshield fwiw ,I have a heating iron to join those back together 
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: lvmci on August 07, 2019, 09:13:11 AM
Gasket is gone, lvmci...
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 07, 2019, 09:33:03 AM
Hey lvmci,

Can you take a profile picture of the gasket where it's cut?
Can you measure the width of the gap on the frame side of the gasket? (1/8" maybe?)
Can you measure the approximate width of the gasket overall? (1" maybe?)
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 13, 2019, 09:25:59 AM
I've researched this a bit more:

For the windshield "fence" without the "windscreen" (Part No. 03-27-1742) - MCI Direct Parts - $450, WW Williams $324.78, Clark Power Services $405. (plus shipping)

I cut away some of the windshield gasket to examine the profile and found the folllowing:


This means replacing the "fence" with universal gasket material would require:

* A length of inline gasket with 1/4" left and right side gaps for the center (between the two windshields)
* A length of inline gasket with 1/4" x 1/8" for the top edge and possibly the sides
* A length of offset gasket with 1/4" x 1/4" for the bottom

Trim-lok is one brand of gasket that appears to be popular for this application. A reseller on Amazon sells the material in 25' and greater lengths. Trim-lok themselves only sell it in 100' rolls. A rep with Trim Lok says they use an acrylic adhesive to bond the gaskets.

* 1x 25' length of 1/4 x 1/4 inline - $62
* 1x 25' length of 1/8 x 1/4 inline - $42
* 1x 25' length of 1/8 x 1/4 offset (Trim lok doesnt make 1/4x1/4 offset) - $60
* 1x adhesive (i.e. Permabond TA4610) -  $20-$30

For a cost estimate of $194. So there's a potential cost savings of $130, but I'd have to work with the following differences:

* Trim Lok's gaskets are significantly narrower on the outside than the OEM gasket (1 to 0.8 inches vs 1.5")
* Will the 1/8 x 1/4 offset work where 1/4 x 1/4 was previously?
* The widths vary between the gaskets so mitred corners would not be simple
* Adhesion may or may not be sufficient to weather proof the joints

Decisions, decisions....
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: luvrbus on August 13, 2019, 11:28:45 AM
This what I use I don't glue those
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: chessie4905 on August 13, 2019, 11:29:24 AM
Since the correct one is still available I'd bite the bullet, install it, and move on. If you assemble the other one with multiple sizes, there is a fair chance you will be dealing with leakage in the rain down the road. Gaskets do shrink some in time. For the amount of saving you are talking about, I don't think it is worth it.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 13, 2019, 01:11:37 PM
Luvrbus, That looks truly medieval.  :P

I concur. Part ordered from WW Williams. Should be here in about a week. I'lll let ya'll know how it goes.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: luvrbus on August 13, 2019, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: mqbus767 on August 13, 2019, 01:11:37 PM
Luvrbus, That looks truly medieval.  :P

I concur. Part ordered from WW Williams. Should be here in about a week. I'lll let ya'll know how it goes.

That it is to join rubber or plastic
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 22, 2019, 01:52:50 PM
Got the rubber window gasket in this week, but it does not come with the locking rubber strip. I tried to get the locking strip from MCI resellers, but they weren't able to find the part number. I called 1/2 dozen rubber companies and finally landed on www.wefcorubber.com. They have a massive 200+ page catalog with every rubber profile shape you can think of. If you print out a page, you can place a cross section of your piece on it and see if yours matches theirs.

Anyways, I found my profile and ordered the 30' I'll need to lock the window in place. Not cheap at $2/ft., but probably not scandalous. If you need rubber extruded EPDM parts, seems like these guys have the stuff to do it.

P.S. My locking strip has the exact shape profile of their part no. "0011G-4", but dimensionally part no. "2179" seems to be a better fit.

Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: lvmci on August 22, 2019, 02:32:35 PM
Hi mqbus,  my locking strip looks like a V belt, a fan belt from an old car, lvmci...
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: chessie4905 on August 22, 2019, 02:37:58 PM
Probably the same one that is used on GM's. Tip: Avoid stretching lock strip when installing. Cut it about an inch too long. Work the extra back into the channel. Otherwise, in about 6 months to a year, you'll have a gap.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 22, 2019, 03:01:44 PM
Great tip. I'll definitely do that.

In the bottom two pictures above you can see my small cut section of the old locking strip. Yea, it very much looks like an old-style v-belt.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 24, 2019, 07:58:29 PM
Here's the final wrap-up for my MCI vs. universal debate. The windshield gasket is more complex than it appears to be from the outside. The middle and top pieces have channel blocks that slot into rails on the window frame to give significant structural support to the gasket. I'm very happy with my choice not to try and reproduce this using universal gasket material. I would have failed at this first critical and unforeseen feature.

We spent about 4 hours getting the window/gasket out and the new gasket/window in. It's not a job for the faint of heart. Like all things old bus related, I think things have shifted or torqued. The glass fit, but only barely and in some places it's compressed the new gasket so far that there is hardly any room left in the locking strip channel. I'm going to leave it in place and see if it settles a bit before trying to put the locking strip in.

It seals well except for the top edge which leaks like a garden hose. I think the fiberglass and aluminum skin are just too thin for it to seal properly. That probably explains most of the gooping that was on there with the old gasket and "windscreen". We did start a new crack in in one of the windshields that was already cracked. I'm sure this starts the countdown timer on windshield replacement. This particular pane also has some water fogging beginning between the layers in one corner. It will be tempting to take this to a glass company the next time around because I'm assuming they can grind the edges of the glass for a better fit.

For posterity sake and future bus nuts I present you with the disected bits of the windshield gasket. (The squeamish should look away now) Please be aware that these are approximate measurements. The old gasket is worn out and is most certainly distorted.

Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: mqbus767 on August 24, 2019, 08:00:31 PM
And a few pictures of the new gasket installed:
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: chessie4905 on August 25, 2019, 05:21:59 AM
If you have or can get a tiny ceramic drill bit, drill a hole at end of crack or it'll keep spreading. Seal the hole with Duco cement or some other clear glue.
Title: Re: 102DL3 Windshield Gasket - MCI or Universal?
Post by: DoubleEagle on August 25, 2019, 01:56:06 PM
Thanks for finding Wefco Rubber Co., they have gaskets for collector cars as well. They even say if you can't find it in their catalog, they can make for you.  :o