I'm thinking that the fact the nut is welded onto the end of the axle housing is bad.
Probably also helps explain the stripped lug bolt and the loose Brake linings.
I will get a grinding wheel for my Dremel tomorrow and see if I can get the nut off.
Anyone seen anything like this before?
New rear-end housing in my future?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Fhub.jpg&hash=efa2179f8e5d34d9b18e6b241458425ef84d9124)
Peter
WOW! I think I would replace everything on both sides as who knows what else the previous owner did. Then you will know you won't have to worry about it.
Gary
That sort of crap is beyond intelligent comprehension...
You want to do a full inspection on every wheel end... and a really close look at the steering too.
In medieval times, we would hunt this sort of person down and put the exorcist onto them...
Truly possessed.
Good that you got into it and found this!!!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
That's not good 1st time I ever saw that,I have come across a few the outside nut was tacked to the inner nut before for some goofy reason
When I took my clutch cover plate apart to rebuild it the finger height adjusters were welded to the straps. The threads for the nut were probably stripped on that axle, so it was probably weld it or find a new axle. Now it's probably find a new axle...
I saw a fuel delivery truck at the shop years ago that had the axle flange welded to the hub. Mechanics replaced three hydrovacs because they couldn't get any pedal. I had them cut the welds loose and remove hub. Sure enough, the brakes on that side were shot. New drums, lining, studs and axle shaft and guess what??? Good brakes then. Truck had been sitting in shop for two months before I got there.
The trucking industry has mobile welders put new spindles on trailers.
Can you do that with a drive axle?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Anyone know where I can find a Drive axle assembly for a 1989 MCI 96A3?
WIll the drive axle from a 102A3 fit will the drive axle from a B,C or D model fit? Maybe from an MC9 or MC8?
Any small project is just one issue away from a major project.
The reason I opened that hub up was to replace a stripped out Lug Bolt the Bus came preequiped with, then found oil on the brake shoes, then found the pads loose cracked and broken.
Debating if I should cut those welds and remove the nut and hub to see what else is damaged, If I do that I have crippled the Bus, I could reassemble and still move the Bus until I get a replacment Axle assembly.
Buswarrior,
Do you have any more information on the spindle replacers?
Peter
What I would consider doing is leave it until I had a plan in place for the worst case scenario. If the hub bearings are good. It's obviously been like that for a while. Can you replace the stud and the brakes with it like that? Are you using the bus a lot, moving it a lot, or mostly working on it?
Quote from: bevans6 on July 30, 2019, 08:02:16 AM
What I would consider doing is leave it until I had a plan in place for the worst case scenario. If the hub bearings are good. It's obviously been like that for a while. Can you replace the stud and the brakes with it like that? Are you using the bus a lot, moving it a lot, or mostly working on it?
We are currently not using it a lot, The hub bearings appear to be good, there is some side to side slop in the nuts not being tight to the hub.
The Stud would be difficult to replace without removing the hub, probably not impossible.
I will attempt to clean and tighten up the current liners on the shoes, don't see much point in putting new liners on to be covered in gear oil, the seal is leaking pretty bad.
I suppose I could remove the welds replace the seal and possibly bearings, make sure everything is good and then weld the nut back on?
Then I could replace the brake linings.
That would give me time to search for a Drive axle assembly.
I am now suspect of the entire drive axle, I see that it is leaking at the differential gasket as well, also the hub was packed full of grease.
I need to pull the axle on the passenger side and see what mysteries await me there.
Peter
You need an axle from a 96 wide bus, the 102 is no good to you.
The configurations of all the mounts need to be confirmed.
The MC12 may be a good donor candidate, and there might be spares still kicking around, with greyhound having run a few million miles on them.
You have to be sure about compatibility.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
If MCI still sells parts maybe they can give you the info you need. Or give Luke a call.
It sounds like you think the bearing is loose, no/incorrect pre-load, so I would not run it. I would cut those tacks and undo it to see what you can see. Might be spun bearings, loose races. Nothing good about installing bearings with a Mig welder...
Don't disable that coach until you have a total solution planned, and further, confirmed that you can act on it.
I'd go after a donor axle and build that back up.
If something goes wrong with parts availability, once it is apart... you are doomed to spending money, even to scrap it.
Keep it a roller, you have options.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on July 30, 2019, 07:03:02 AM
The trucking industry has mobile welders put new spindles on trailers.
Can you do that with a drive axle?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Yes, Peter should be able to find a mobile axle doctor who can replace that spindle. I would look into that before replacing the whole axle housing.
Bob
I cut the welds off with an angle grinder and pulled the nuts off.
The Hub finally came off with a little persuasion, hub actually looks to be in good shape, will need new bearings.
The threads on the spindle are pretty well shot, the spindle looks a little bent at the end and the inner race on the outside bearing was cracked.
I could tell this was not the first time a nut had been welded on to this spindle.
I talked to Luke at US Coach about my options, he recommended I look up the Axle Doctor, I contacted the local guy, he will come out to where the bus is and cut the end off the spindle and weld a new one on, he's been doing it for 40 years.
I need to pull the axle on the curb side to see if we have any more surprises before I make an appointment.
Then new bearings, seals, a couple of lug bolts and Brake linings.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Fhubbearing.jpg&hash=822eddf9a3ca95310dcc8cfebab443d087d01fe3)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Fhubbearing1.jpg&hash=f61f3c4f36343fe5792757ccd8c828b1937ad081)
Peter
That seal surface looks pretty messed up also, or is that a replaceable rub ring?
Quote from: chessie4905 on July 31, 2019, 06:35:25 AM
That seal surface looks pretty messed up also, or is that a replaceable rub ring?
The Axle doctor says they cut the axle housing back before the seal surface and replace everything.
Peter
You chose the right avenue. I have had Axle Master replace spindles before and the finished product was very impressive and not prohibitive as far as cost. Pull down the other side and repair as needed while he is there to check everything for straightness.
Always good news when a plan comes together.
Take a bunch of pics and report back how it goes!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Yes, definitely check other side doing a second spindle while he is there isn't going to be double since travel time is for getting to you, not per stub.
Did the previous owner give any hint of this problem when they sold the bus to you? If not, it sure looks like a fast one has been pulled to avoid having to spend money. They surely should have known you would have discovered this problem at some point. I guess pulling the axles will become one of the check points when checking a bus for sale, if you can't trust the person selling it. :(
Wow! For a bunch of bad luck you sure had some really good luck! That broken inner race could have progressed to a fatal accident. People are unbelievable at times. Makes a person want to grab them and beat on the top of their head until they are whistling through their zipper >:( Jack
It has been a few weeks, a lot has been done, a lot still to do.
I checked the Spindle on the curb side, everything was good except the axle seal was bad and everything was soaked in oil and caked with brake dust and road dirt.
The Axle Doctor Scheduled me for Sunday morning at 10 am (his call), Arrived on time and got to work.
I had stripped everything down to the Spider, after removing the 6 bolts it was still attached with 3 large solid rivets, those were cut off and driven out and the Spider came right off exposing the axle flange.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle.jpg&hash=358f3cf542c6f5713fd0480b2e51b493178a9987)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle1.jpg&hash=8124326a59753f18b39ee7c913d5ecfec91a1f35)
After making multiple measurements, and drawing multiple lines,
He got to work with his cutting torch and shortly had the end of the axle housing sitting on the ground and the end of it beveled.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle2.jpg&hash=254c0c7608dbfa9e995573cfed884a3c52d331d4)
At this point it went sideways a bit, According to the Doc, the axle is an oddball size and he did not have a base plate for the alignment jig that would fit, He ended up going back to his shop to machine a new one, he was back three hours later and mounted the newly made base Plate on the axle Flange.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle4.jpg&hash=28e5d6f4c5375a87aa862b0cfc70c9caa3e63f53)
Then he took the new spindle they had machined and mounted it in the alignment jig using the inner and outer bearings and the Preload nuts, then mounted it to the Axle flange and base plate, the new spindle was already beveled.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle3.jpg&hash=6e7d400d12590087ca0c4a7ac4e1bb5e427258d9)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle5.jpg&hash=558f3ab4bd391838d9543780ebcacff23a4ecc48)
After measuring and adjusting many multiple times he tacked the spindle in place through three openings in the alignment jig.
The Jig was removed, after another round of measuring and test fitting of the hub and axle he welded the entire beveled area up solid and then ground it flat enough to fit the Spider back onto the Mounting flange.
You cannot tell it was ever replaced.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle6.jpg&hash=d527a6b627b39f582e099545634c445a378c96d8)
I am still cleaning some of the parts, have received a large cache of Parts from US Coach including new seals, Gaskets, Bearings, Bushings, Races, Lug bolts and Brake linings.
I still have the S-Cam bushings to replace and I need to put the new linings onto the Brake shoes and I need to source a couple of grade 8 bolts to replace the Rivets.
I hope to have it back together this weekend.
If you ever need a an Axle repaired in the Tampa Bay area, I would not hesitate to call these guys.
The Axle Doctor and Surgeons Tampa FL
http://www.theaxledoctor.com/ (http://www.theaxledoctor.com/)
Peter
Incredible there are still people who have the necessary skills and gumption to get it done like he did. Most would have turned and run away.
Glad to hear it worked out.
I appreciate you sharing this. I've heard of it being done, but have never seen the procedure. Thanks!
Excellent report!
Thanks for sharing!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Peter, where in tampa are you?
Quote from: niles500 on August 13, 2019, 04:43:53 PM
Peter, where in tampa are you?
I live in South Tampa, near the Air Base.
The Bus lives in St Petersburg Near Tropicana Field.
Peter
Following up on progress.
All new bearings, bearing retainer nuts, Brake linings and seals, and reasonable weather (not raining), although hot, 95.
I put all new seals and bearings into the hub and mounted it on the new Axle everything went together pretty easy, It was a good feeling to screw the new bearing retaining nuts onto the new spindle.
The worst and most time-consuming part was cleaning all the parts, Gear oil mixed with Brake dust and road debris, It was like everything was coated in over an inch of thick sticky tar.
I had to scrap it off with a putty knife before cleaning it, the only thing I found that would cut it was gasoline.
Eventually I got everything clean, bolted together and the brakes adjusted.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle8.jpg&hash=92537e9bf680e7e5040482d0243da15a1930beb9)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle9.jpg&hash=2300ee6783e627ba66aba4eefeb8c6356b0aa6bf)
I found a new use for my Motorcycle jack, mounting the Brake drums.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle11.jpg&hash=23f61bdce8337ce4fe74e57d35804516add895d9)
I was only able to put the one tire back on the drivers side (the other one is exploded)
Now I need to buy some new tires.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peterbylt.com%2Fmci96a3%2Faxle7.jpg&hash=7b94b2826a98a0a74d90f152e1508d66ba3e81bd)
Peter
Re-purposed motorcycle jack...
Excellent!
One of those is likely cheaper than the specialized rig for drums, and doubles as a motorcycle jack!
Princess Auto or Harbour Freight examples to the rescue!
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior