Hey everyone, just bought a new project( 1999 mci 102d3 ) and i am intrested in seeing some ways that you have set up the cargo compartments for sewer and power. I currently still live in my 1989 102c3 but i am not happy with the setup i currently have. Any pictures or sugestions will be greatly appreciated. Or if there is a place on the forum that already has these . And i will post my bus pictures hopefully today.
Thanks
Another one! Great! Yours is the 40' version then? The bays would be a little different. Do you have 2 storage bays in the center rather than 3?
I'm using almost my entire rear storage bay for water and waste, the tanks are stopping just shy of interfering with the access door for the HVAC. My genset is in the front bay. It'll be about 3 weeks before I get back on that.
Your toilet drain pretty much locates the black tank.
Jim
I have a MC9.
Back bay is water tanks, hot water heater, plumbing stuff and a little bit of storage. I'm thinking of reconfiguring. I have my black tank so close to the drive side bay door I have no room to store things like hoses and what not. My bathroom is right above it, so that's the way it goes.
Middle bay driver side is electrical and has a hole in the floor to run all wires, inside it's below the electrical closet with breakers, solar wires, etc. I have a wall dividing that from the other side, so I can mount my inverters on the back wall there. The wall between bay 1 and 2 holds the solar chargers and whatnot. Then on the other side is mostly storage. I'd like to build some roll out compartments for it. It's filled with tables / chairs and other stuff, but a pain to use and get at.
Next is the most forward bay. It's mostly empty except the propane furnace, it's up against the OTR heater core wall because I use the OTR ducting, so it pulls in air from the OTR bay then exhausts heat into the vents, propane exhausts into the floor. I plan on switching to $150 Chinese diesel to air heaters to save space and get better heating, but ours is used 3 seasons only, so not a huge issue. Then I carry a backup generator because reasons, still figuring out which one I'll keep, the onan or the predator. Onan is more bullet proof, but the predator is quieter. Then the passenger side there I store whatever, sometimes kids bikes, hockey bags, sticks, a grill, whatever. I'd like to eventually do a roll out kitchen here maybe.
I have 3 bays, i am thinking of leaving the original bathroom in place and making a rear shower. Good info thanks.
The tank on the original bathroom doesn't have much capacity. I don't remember the spec, seems like about 20 gallons though. On the wrong side for most dump stations too. Plus having to go through the master bedroom to get to the bathroom. Plus any plumbing lines have to go through the engine bay, then the wheel bay and finally the rear bulkhead. I wondered why everyone removes it, mainly it is just inconvenient in all respects. But possible, definitely possible.
Jim
New Tiffin motorhomes have a master bath at the back, two sinks, shower, and toilet. Tanks are forward of drive axle, not sure how they ferry the water forward...
Quote from: 6805eagleguy on May 18, 2019, 07:54:28 AM
New Tiffin motorhomes have a master bath at the back, two sinks, shower, and toilet. Tanks are forward of drive axle, not sure how they ferry the water forward...
Macerating toilet?
The shower and sinks would not be a problem. The macerating toilets can carry waste horizontally with only a slight drop to the tank, but they do use more water and rely on having 12v power.
Gravity toilets are the most reliable.
My idea for leaving the original bathroom would be like a private room in the bed room. I am also puting in a mid bathroom with shower for any guests. The original I think would be great for travel since that's what it was designed for. Use the secondary bathroom for when parked. What is the common tank sizes people are using.
I was thinking 50 gal fresh, 50 gal grey and 30 black. Need to do some measuring but I would like to use the center bay for all electrical( generator/ a/c inverters and batteries) I would think weight distribution would be important. I will post pics of my current 89 mci that I live in and its compartment setup.
After calculating the weights on my '96 DL3 and removal of the seats as best I recall I found I had over 15,000lbs of usable weight capacity available to me. It's not likely I will ever use all of that. That thread shouldn't be hard to find. Buswarrior warned that there is a risk of going too light on the front axle and losing steering authority. Hence the forward bay for the genset. I'm constructing a 250 gallon tank for fresh water, my holding tanks will go in the rear bay. The center bay will carry a SxS 4x4 buggy eventually that I plan to make road legal.
You can get by with small holding tanks if you always plan to camp where there are hookups. But I suspect that running a ground snake around the back of the bus so you could dump the private toilet might get old.
Jim
In the early stages, we used the stock toilet while still "steel tent" camping.
The problem is the smell is into the coach, whether that be horrible fragranced chemicals, or the waste.
Try it, but don't bet the farm on keeping it in your final design.
Busnuts are cheap, if it worked, you'd see an awful lot more doing it and saving the expences of toilet and tank and labour to install, and you don't...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: petarm1 on May 19, 2019, 05:32:29 AM
...What is the common tank sizes people are using.
I was thinking 50 gal fresh, 50 gal grey and 30 black...
Not sure why a gray tank is even necessary. We have a combined waste tank and have never had a problem. Helps keep the waste liquid so that the tank drains completely. I know that some will say that the gray water can be used to flush the dump hose, but there is usually a water hose at the dump station specifically for that purpose. We've never encountered a problem with the combined tank. Less plumbing and less to go wrong.
Our waste tank and fresh water are the same size. Never a chance of over filling the waste tank, since we always run from the fresh water tank and not a city hookup. When we have city water available we use it to fill the tank, and then run from the tank.
Our tanks are 90 gallons each (fresh and waste), which gives a usable capacity of about 75-80 gallons. Enough for 2 of us to go almost a week if we are cautious with water use.
Is it hard to remove the old stock bathroom. My current mci was already removed and my 89 prevost got sold before i got partway through the conversion. But yes. Maybe keeping the old bathroom could cuase some smell issues i dont want
Quote from: petarm1 on May 19, 2019, 04:15:10 PM
Is it hard to remove the old stock bathroom. My current mci was already removed and my 89 prevost got sold before i got partway through the conversion. But yes. Maybe keeping the old bathroom could cuase some smell issues i dont want
Yes it's a big job to remove the stock bathroom...but look ! No more...not even the floor is there anymore.
Washroom removal requires a lot of smart thinking, and a little physicality, or a huge amount of violence, if you choose to not find all the fasteners...
Some guy put it all together in a certain order, you can reverse that, or fight with it.
It is the one thing on the bus that outlasts the rest of the bus...
Search this site and BNO for the stories.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I used a air chisel and a sawsall and a big mallet and head phones and eye glasses and gloves . beat the crap out of it ! it will come out
but yes of all the things that were removed from the bus it was a lot of work but it was all worth it
dave
I remember on my prevost the anger the sticky film on the bathroom window caused me ;D
Quote from: petarm1 on May 20, 2019, 05:43:26 AM
I remember on my prevost the anger the sticky film on the bathroom window caused me ;D
Right ! I will have to do it too.... :(
A plasma torch cuts stainless nicely.
I got lucky. The bathroom had already been removed when I got my bus. The tank was still there and getting that out took some head scratching but it does just bolt in. I have to think the bathroom itself is the same.
About the tanks though:
First, grey/black vs combined. If you live out west it makes little difference, you often can't dump grey water anyway so you might as well run combined. Other places it can make a great difference. In the East, almost any place you go it is permissible to run your grey water out on the lawn where it does no harm and may be beneficial as long as you go easy on the detergents and chemicals. So your gray tank size isn't really much of a limitation, having a suitable sized black tank, and adequate fresh water can make life more pleasant. The question is, what is adequate? If you allow 10 gallons per day per person with two adults 250 gallons is about a two week's supply. That's enough to let you and your SO take a shower every day. How important is that to her? During that 2 weeks how much waste goes down the toilet? Are you willing to let that be the limiting factor?
A gallon a day per person means about 25-30g for that same two week period, so 50g would give a reasonable safety margin for the black tank. But what if a water hose is sometimes available? Now maybe double that could be in the cards for extended boondocking.
So what about the weight? Water weighs 8.34 pounds per gallon, so 250 gallons weighs a couple thousand pounds plus a hundred pounds or so for the tank. In a D series bus that's roughly 1/8th of your overall cargo weight capacity, so significant yes but not excessive. grey and black capacities don't count because as you fill those you drain the fresh water tank and the weight just transfers.
What it does do is use up a significant portion of your usable bay storage capacity, so careful planning is in order.
Jim
If being able to drain gray water to the ground is desired, then there is still no need for a gray water tank - you could just install a diverter on the gray water drains and open it for direct discharge through a hose when possible. That would eliminate the space a gray water tank would take. I'm not sure that there are that many places where dumping gray water is permissible though, except maybe on private property. Campgrounds and most parks will still restrict it in many places east or west.
Even the high-end truck conversions are only topping out with 150 gallons of fresh water. If you've got room and weight capacity to carry 250 gallons that's great, but I'd suspect that for most needs much less would be doable.
How big is that tank that you're installing to carry 250 gallons?
Quote from: richard5933 on May 20, 2019, 11:30:35 AM
How big is that tank that you're installing to carry 250 gallons?
Well, I remember when I was processing my WVO for my truck I used plastic totes. They are 275 gallons and about a 4 foot cube.
So that gives you an idea of what kind of space would be needed for 250 gallons.
Seb
wow ! 250 gal. tank ?
I have a 153 gal. fresh tank and only fill it to the max when we are camped and are on tap water . My wife can go through that in 3 days between her bath tub and the washer and dryer . when we travel most times I only fill it with about 50 - 100 gal. depending on how long we are on the road with out a water source . as if I do not have to carry all that weight why fill it . and the fact if I do fill it some times it takes 20-30 min. to fill it depending on the water source
as for holding tanks I would not go with out a grey tank as if you can empty it it sure saves on emptying the black tank . not that I would ever do it ( ;) )but I have a switch right at the drivers seat that will dump grey water out to the ground when ever I might need to with out doing any thing else
my tanks are 153 fresh
76 grey
53 black
my 153 gal. tank is about 14" wide 20 " high and 70 " long from memory
it is sure nice to have the size and never have to fill them unless you need to
dave
Quote from: sledhead on May 20, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
...not that I would ever do it ( ;) )but I have a switch right at the drivers seat that will dump grey water out to the ground when ever I might need to with out doing any thing else...
I've got a similar switch for my waste tank. I'm told that it was common on entertainer coaches as well, and that they were designed for use at the end of the day when the driver would pull over the tank access hatch to dump the tank when returning to the bus yard. I'm sure that it saw use at other times as well.
I have the dimensions in another thread but approx 4ft by 56" by 29" IIRC. I had the tank, just had to cut down the height. I still need to add baffles and a lid but won't get to that for another 3-4 weeks. Then fittings and waste tanks. Considering plastic for the black tank, probably stick with the stainless for the gray. Maybe plastic for the fresh water tank lid, acrylic might be interesting. Anyway as mentioned just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it. But since it worked out this way I'll take it. I would not have planned for that large of a tank otherwise I don't think but I won't complain about having too much fresh water. It'd be nice to not have to think about it. I'm considering adding a drinking water tank as well but no hurry. Maybe I'll run across something suitable.
Anyway the rear bay will be tankage up to the swing of the HVAC door. That'll leave room for long things that are removed regularly.
Dave, just be sure you don't "accidentally" hit that switch going over a cheese grater bridge. I heard the driver for the Steve Miller band dropped a load on some pleasure boaters in the Chicago river and it cost them millions by the time the dust settled.
Of course, if it's raining... and it's grey water... who's to know?
Jim
"Of course, if it's raining... and it's grey water... who's to know?
Jim "
that might work !
I have a 6 stage reverse osmosis system with a uv light , after the 2 stage system ( 1 filter 5 micron and 1 carbon filter ) that is before the fresh water tank and now we never need the crappy ( spring water ) from walmart for drinking all off the fresh water tank
dave
You filter all your fresh water as it goes in? That seems... well great if you can do it. (I see filters in your future Jim Blackwood :o)
Jim
this filter 2 x 1 with 5 micron and the 2nd with the carbon filter before the water tank . the reverse osmosis system is after the tank
https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rainfresh-whole-house-water-filter-0621023p.0621023.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwoInnBRDDARIsANBVyARFEdDBRw_9FLbtyVylP0n9ibrSFaeDLg-kFkCB8VZF6q7qKsduSTMaAvqkEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
dave
Why not just filter the water used for consumption after the tank. Toilet don't care.😝
Tank volume calculations:
Using inches to measure
Length x width x height
Divided by 231
Gives you US gallons.
Measure your space, check the tank catalogue, order custom, or construct your own.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I like the 2 filter pre tank as less crap can get into the tank
wow! my memory must be really bad ! as the tank has a 153 gal plate on it . I will go measure it
dave
Quote from: sledhead on May 20, 2019, 03:00:12 PM
...I have a 6 stage reverse osmosis system with a uv light , after the 2 stage system...
How much water does the filtration system consume during the process? We have a reverse osmosis system that was used to make water for an aquarium, and it seemed to waste more water than we got out of it. RO systems can do a good job of scrubbing water, but they use water in the process and the end result is missing the minerals which are beneficial to us.
Maybe I am missing something, but I don't stress over our fresh water tank so much. We sanitize the system at the beginning of the season, and I either fill from our house before leaving or from known safe water sources while on the road. We use a particulate filter when filling, and I have another particulate filter in the system between the tank and the water pump. A carbon drinking water filter supplies drinking water at the sink. That is the extent of our fresh water filtration system. We don't buy bottled water either at home or on the road.
Before you ask how I know a water source is 'known good' or not... I ask. Most campgrounds will be required to have their systems tested and will post the certificate. Only once was there a problem, and checking with the office let me know that there was a boil warning due to a potential problem. We did not fill our tank there. We never fill from unknown sources, and if no signs or certificate is posted we ask others in the campground about the water before filling. You can get a lot of information (some helpful, some not so much) by asking a few long-term campground residents.
We all drink water straight from the tap more than we know. Most restaurants are using it to make soft drinks, mixed cocktails, etc. They use it for cooking. Processed foods are made with tap water. Etc. Etc. Fortunately, in the US you generally don't have to stress over water quality, with obvious exceptions.
as far as I know the rate for RO is 2 to 1 or to make 1 gal of RO water 2 gal go down the drain . I have my RO set to drain back to the fresh water tank . yes I know this is not ideal but we do not waist any water and because of the volume of water we carry and the amount that we drink as the RO is a separate small tap at the kitchen sink ( drinking water only )
the other way we save water is we have a solenoid on a timer ( most times it is set to 15 sec. ) that we turn on so hot water is sent back to the water fresh tank not to waist it . this way when you turn on the hot water tap the hot water is already there when you need it
dave
There are online calculators that will quickly convert cubic inches to gallons if you have trouble remembering the conversion factor. (I do)
Dave, that's a clever dodge with the hot water. Dad once installed a loop in the hot water line at his house that was intended to keep the water hot in the bathroom. It didn't work very well and the valves were shut off pretty soon. Sounds like yours will be much more effective. I plan to put the water heater in the cabinet below the kitchen sink, with the shower right on the other side of the bulkhead (hmm... may want to relocate the fridge to the other side). They will be pretty instant but the bathroom will be a longer run. Probably use a small line for that though, say 3/8 or maybe 5/16" and run the line as direct as is practical. Not going to worry too much about filters for awhile, and if I do put in a drinking water tank that should pretty much eliminate the need. Just have to avoid sulphur water. I installed a filter and drinking water tap in our S&S and it worked pretty good. I'd say it was fine for all but the worst of water sources. I doubt the quality of water has changed much in the last 15 years.
Jim
Reminds me of an old western movie about a wagon train. Cook told individual to rap the drinking barrel tied to wagon with the water dipper. When person inquired why, cook said it caused the polly wogs to swim to the bottom so you didn't get them in the dipper.😵
Yeah - but I bet the polly wogs kept the mosquitoe larvae at bay...
Maybe that's where the expression " got a frog in my throat" came from.....
Quote from: sledhead on May 21, 2019, 05:18:41 AM
the other way we save water is we have a solenoid on a timer ( most times it is set to 15 sec. ) that we turn on so hot water is sent back to the water fresh tank not to waist it . this way when you turn on the hot water tap the hot water is already there when you need it
dave
That is brilliant. I would be interested in more on that.
I have lived in homes that had a hot water circulating pump, so that water at even the furthest tap from the water heater was hot imediately, but this seems to be a new twist and more suited to a bus.
Seb
kind of simple
t in the hot water line near the farthest tap to a solenoid controlled by the timer that sends the water back to the fresh water tank
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06XD753ZQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.ca/Baomain-Brass-Electric-Solenoid-Valve/dp/B01GL478RG/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_60_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QC5ZAEF37GN8TNGVWN8C
should be a lot less $$$ on amazon .com
my fresh tank 23" w x 21" h x 53" long,ish man my memory sucks
153 gal
dave
Thanks for the conversion chart for sizing the tanks. I also have to consider that my coach will have a washer/dryer combo and a dishwasher but those will only be used when hooked to land probably not run through my holding tanks, i beleave i am going to go with the seperate grey and black. Curently in my 89 mci where i live i can dump my grey on the lawn but i have to haul my black in totes to a rv dump site.
My black is currently 30 gallons and i think i might want to go a bit biger on that.
My thoughts are my thoughts are 100g fresh, 50g grey and 50g black.
Does that work with some of your folks math for a good ballance?
And again i love hearing all your design thoughts.
Quote from: petarm1 on May 24, 2019, 04:58:22 AM
Thanks for the conversion chart for sizing the tanks. I also have to consider that my coach will have a washer/dryer combo and a dishwasher but those will only be used when hooked to land probably not run through my holding tanks, i beleave i am going to go with the seperate grey and black. Curently in my 89 mci where i live i can dump my grey on the lawn but i have to haul my black in totes to a rv dump site.
My black is currently 30 gallons and i think i might want to go a bit biger on that.
My thoughts are my thoughts are 100g fresh, 50g grey and 50g black.
Does that work with some of your folks math for a good ballance?
And again i love hearing all your design thoughts.
If the reason for both black and gray tanks is so you can drain the gray to earth, you can still eliminate the gray tank with a bit of extra plumbing. Run your gray water drains to your waste tank through a single inlet, and install a diverter valve at a point before the waste tank. When you want to drain to earth just switch the diverter valve to send the gray water to a discharge hose. Since gray water can flow easily, the gray water discharge hose can just be a garden hose.
If you have a septic system, you can use the garbage disposal setup and pump the black water tank into your septic, or sewer by a garden hose that is ONLY for that use.
Chessie, you might want to elaborate on that, I'm sure I'm not the only one who found it puzzling but intriguing.
Tank size is something that gets a lot of discussion and is very much a personal choice type of thing. So now while in theory it might sound sensible to make combined black/gray capacity equal fresh, in practice it is almost never necessary. Only if you are practicing some pretty extreme conservation/environmental methods is it ever going to balance out and if that is the case the combined tank probably makes more sense, but likely doesn't have to be as large as the fresh. What will usually happen is that your grey tank fills first, then you run out of fresh, then last the black tank gets full. The first two problems can often (usually) be dealt with without moving the rig but the last is a much larger inconvenience.
So my advice is to size the black tank to allow the longest extended stay you can forsee, make the fresh as large as you can to cover as much of that stay as possible, and use what space is left for the grey, assuming that at some point you may visit a site that doesn't allow draining the grey into the yard. And if that is likely to happen more often, shift the whole thing towards the grey.
Your 100/50/50 will certainly work. But if you have the room both the fresh and grey could certainly be larger.
Jim
I 2nd what Jim said . if your tanks are bigger it does not mean you need to fill them every time but the volume is there if you need it
that is how my tanks are w=153g b = 53 g g= 73g
as for dumping the grey and black I installed a under laundry sink pump and use a fire hose style 1 1/2 " roll up hose ( 2 x 50 ' )to dump black and grey .
this way I can pump it out FAST and I can go up hill if needed to .
I carry a 1 1/2 " sump pump hose ( 25') if I want to dump in a camp ground tank as the fire hose only works if it is laid out with no kinks in the line
dave
One of our members uses a garbage disposal with a garden hose size outlet. The inlet is convenently 3" which can easily be adapted to tank outlet. It is portable. He even has a nice support for it. He'll probably chime in.
I've got the Flojet version of the garbage disposal pump. Let's me empty the waste tank uphill into the septic tank through a garden hose.
You mean this one chessie, LOL
Will go up hill too to 145 feet in a 5/8" garden hose. :)
Yep, Dave. You're the guy!
Pretty slick. I like the direct connection, the portability, and the wash-out fitting. Seems like you have it all covered.
Jim
Got to give steam-punk the credit. I just added to their design and used a stainless steel unit. Its been going strong for 8 years. :)
Masadisposerator.....