Hi All and especially Gary,
I've become recently irritated by the ever increasing usage by young people and newbys who are new to BUS CONVERSIONS, infatuated with the term "tiny homes". The tiny home movement was started as an alternative nonmoving house developing out of the guest house, mother in law bungalow, separate building in your parents back yard. Now Wikipedia calls it, "a residential structure under 400 sq. ft is generally considered[2] a tiny home.[3] The tiny-house movement promotes financial prudence, economically safe, shared community experiences"
Our community experience, we have always described and named ourselves BUS CONVERSIONS or BUSNUT community. The internet and Facebook chat rooms are full of people applying that term, tiny home to all kinds of trailers, structures, schoolies and increasingly bus conversions.
I'm sorry to single out the young couple in this months BUS CONVERSION MAGAZINE, they seem like very nice people, and I dont mean to sound as harsh as Im sure some will interpret it, but, this group of BUSNUTS, is a community based, self accepted term applicable to our bus community, and we really don't call ourselves, TINY HOME NUTS. There are certainly nuts here, there are some that live in their bus homes (we call them full timers), and we call a full time non motorized tiny home a trailer. And no bus nut is financially prudent.
It is great that this young couple has found our BUSNUT community, we have always been willing to extend our group knowledge to any newby, including me. But would it be possible for you Gary, when editing the articles to inform these great, ambitious, sprouting BUSNUTS, who like so many here have grown into our community and may very well grow out of their trailer/non wheeled tiny structure and graduate to a city/touring/inter city/bus or shell. Might you suggest, they should not refer to us and our hobby as tinyhome builders? And understand we are on to our own, in the land of RVs and small wheeled domiciles. thank you...
LOL you are late to the dance Tom those tiny home builders gather in the desert at Lake Havassu every years converting buses, vans,box trucks what ever they have and call them all tiny homes ,I think you are stuck with that term buddy ;D
Probably am...
The term "tiny home" at face value blurs the distinctions between the various sects but the term is current, cool, and attracting many potential converts to all forms of bus/truck conversions, trailered wood homes, traditional RVs, sheds, etc.
That translates into increased interest in our special club. Hopefully, prices will gain some footing and remove the lead on the price scales.
"Tiny homes"
Putting lipstick on the hippie culture stigma pig?
Rich people slumming down?
Poor people putting on airs?
Fancy name for my broken bus?
Normalizing economic reality?
Like it or not, the tidal wave has come ashore.
What happens when it drains back is rarely pretty, but we'll see...
However, in the here and now, Gary has some hard choices to make in order to keep his enterprise alive.
Kind viewer, be glad you don't have to figure out how to keep the lights on. The "traditional busnut" is both dying out and the rest are evolving.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
What I've seen is that tiny house people and are just like bus nuts with one major difference - they are concerned almost exclusively with the 'house' portion of the build with little to no concern or thought for the bus portion. They are working on a house that happens to be on a mobile platform.
Many will use what ever shell they can find - bus, truck, van, storage container, wood box on trailer, etc. Many will never actually want to move their tiny house, and when they do they'll have someone else tow it to the next place. Some don't even bother to make their tiny home mobile and just assume it will stay put permanently.
We, on the other hand, are working on a bus that happens to have living accommodations inside it. We care about the bus systems and want the final product to be functional and safe going down the road, something we do often.
Of course there are tiny house people that also want a functional road-worthy vehicle, but the name itself shows where the priorities are. Just think about how many of us try hard to keep our buses looking like a bus, while tiny house people try to make theirs look like a cottage or something.
Tom if you look at the MCI on the MCI Facebook page now that is a tiny house it is not practical for RV use but he did a real nice job anyways
Quote from: lvmci on May 08, 2019, 08:22:32 PM
Hi All and especially Gary,
I've become recently irritated by the ever increasing usage by young people and newbys who are new to BUS CONVERSIONS, infatuated with the term "tiny homes". The tiny home movement was started as an alternative nonmoving house developing out of the guest house, mother in law bungalow, separate building in your parents back yard. Now Wikipedia calls it, "a residential structure under 400 sq. ft is generally considered[2] a tiny home.[3] The tiny-house movement promotes financial prudence, economically safe, shared community experiences"
Our community experience, we have always described and named ourselves BUS CONVERSIONS or BUSNUT community. The internet and Facebook chat rooms are full of people applying that term, tiny home to all kinds of trailers, structures, schoolies and increasingly bus conversions.
I'm sorry to single out the young couple in this months BUS CONVERSION MAGAZINE, they seem like very nice people, and I dont mean to sound as harsh as Im sure some will interpret it, but, this group of BUSNUTS, is a community based, self accepted term applicable to our bus community, and we really don't call ourselves, TINY HOME NUTS. There are certainly nuts here, there are some that live in their bus homes (we call them full timers), and we call a full time non motorized tiny home a trailer. And no bus nut is financially prudent.
It is great that this young couple has found our BUSNUT community, we have always been willing to extend our group knowledge to any newby, including me. But would it be possible for you Gary, when editing the articles to inform these great, ambitious, sprouting BUSNUTS, who like so many here have grown into our community and may very well grow out of their trailer/non wheeled tiny structure and graduate to a city/touring/inter city/bus or shell. Might you suggest, they should not refer to us and our hobby as tinyhome builders? And understand we are on to our own, in the land of RVs and small wheeled domiciles. thank you...
Here, here, harumph, harumph.
I understand what the rest of you are saying too, but the fru fru names conote a different goal than many of us have.
"Prudent" hah, if you are looking for a cheap way to domicile a 35,000 pound aluminum and steal can with internal combustion monster is not it. Buy a a garden shed kit at Home Depot and park it in you uncle's back 40. That's a tiny home
If you want the adventure and lifestyle of seeing the continent on your terms and time table you are a busnut.
My personal addition to the rant.
Seb
I saw a conversion of a school bus on Facebook a couple of months ago and ago. I was really impressed how it turned out. A lot of whites and Pergo type floors. The issue I could see down the road was what the condensation and water leakage around those typical school bus windows was going to result in. The surfaces looked to be, I'm guessing now, particle board with a melamine type finish. Anyway, there are some impressive ideas in some of those jobs. Yes, there are going to be many who loose interest and many vehicles will end up in junk yards or be abandoned, but some will move on to coaches like ours and keep our hobby going. I would like to think that after I'm gone, someone will buy or inherit mine and will keep it going instead of it going for scrap. How about yours?
The difference between a "converted bus" and a "tiny house". About $75,000 on the asking price!
What's more irritating, Tiny Homes, or Diesel Pusher? ::)
Skoolies.
As opposed to the traditional term of "STICKS AND STAPLES" How about calling these folks "STICKS AND NAILERS? I don't expect to see too many of these out in the fun lane, to each his own I guess.
Clifford, is this what you're talking about?
The main difference I draw form the "tiny home" "Busconversion" argument, is that most true "tiny homes" have no holding tanks of any kind and depend on grid providers to function.>>>Dan (Evan tho some have rooftop solar)
Another real problem with true "tiny homes" on a trailer chassis is the lack of stamina over the road,, they would fall apart in 100 miles of today's over the road use,, internal and external.>>>D
Another pet peeve of mine is the overuse of the slang term "RV".. In my opinion that term can mean anything from a motorcycle to a boat,, today its used as a substitute for anything more specific.>>>Dan
I know I always wanted a trailer after I saw this movie...I was happy to call the Streamline my trailer, by the way my wife collected rocks too!...
Quote from: lvmci on May 09, 2019, 07:45:00 AM
Clifford, is this what you're talking about?
LOL not quite the one he did remarkable work in the kitchen but it's a house type kitchen done in white
Yes he did a nice job, sure hope he anchored the fridge, dishwasher and oven to the wall and floor...
By the way Gary and Phil, thanks for making the pictures so easy to load...
This is an interesting topic, I'm surprised how many people have a passionate opinion one way or the other. I think Richard is absolutely correct - people who use the term 'tiny home' are looking for just that, they don't care what the donor vehicle is. Those of us who have bus conversions as a means of traveling enjoyment shouldn't take offense when people with a completely different use for busses call their bus something else. Since the term 'tiny home' is still relatively new it will take time to figure out how we can all coexist/understand each other. In the meantime I think BCM is wise to showcase how other people use their busses. We might get something out of their different perspective and incorporate ideas into our own busses. Just my .02...
The title on the header reads Busconversions Magazine. Some people will be unobservent, some people will go out of their way to fit in to a group, they want to be a part of. My thoughts are, tiny homes are great for the right people and right now the term is a FAD or a TREND, morphing who knows in what direction. A tiny home has started out as a small studio style building for one or a start for a couple. Bus Conversions are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Some new Bus Nuts have figured out to jump past all the interm recreational vehicles in their life, to what they would like the most, some have to go thru all the steps to get to busnutdom.
Trailers evolved from Conestoga Wagons, 5th wheels evolved from tractor trailers, motorhomes evolved from buses. FMCAs logo still depicts a Bus Conversion on their logo. I just feel we have the correct term for our hobby and we dont need to be trend followers,.
This topic is trivial. For someone who has a commercial stake in this market niche (busnuts), it seems highly relevant. As we all know this community is aging out and needs new blood. As mentioned earlier, hopefully folks like Gary are seeking ways to get swept up in the "tiny home" phenomenon for increased sustainability for we busnuts.
triv·i·al
/ˈtrivēəl/
adjective
of little value or importance.
synonyms: unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential, minor, of no/little account, of no/little consequence, of no/little importance, not worth bothering about, not worth mentioning; More
(of a person) concerned only with trifling or unimportant things.
synonyms: frivolous, superficial, shallow, unthinking, empty-headed, featherbrained, lightweight, foolish, silly
Lvmci; where did you get that picture? It's Clifford's first conversion.
It was the first cab over camper, Clifford designed and built it for the Beverly Hillbillies ...
A bus conversion can be a tiny house, but can a tiny house be a bus conversion? I don't think so, not without a lot of work.
A tiny house has no intrinsic need to move, to store fresh water or waste water, or to have any sort of independent power source. If it does have all those things, is built on a bus shell, in a way that allows it to stand up to travel, then I think it is a bus conversion. If only part of that is true then maybe it is a tiny house instead. Or just a really poorly done bus conversion.
BUT, it's not entirely a money thing. I've seen ridiculous sums spent to build tiny houses. To the point where you really wonder why the builder didn't just build a regular house. So what is the motivation to use a bus shell anyway? Appearance? Is there really any social value in being able to say, "I live in a bus"? Not from what I've seen except among a very select group. Less work to keep it clean I guess, and at least a decent intercity bus has a good roof that isn't prone to leakage.
OTOH, a well used school bus can still be had these days for not a whole lot over $1000 I believe, (It's been a few decades since my last purchase from Edwin up in Columbus so take that with a grain of salt.) and that's dirt cheap for a roof, floor, and walls even if they are full of windows and seats. For someone with a real cut-rate budget it's not a bad place to start. And I can see where you might want to call it a tiny house initially, especially if you have permission to park it in Dad's back yard and hook up to his utilities. But I think you do yourself a disservice that way by encouraging building practices that will ultimately have to be re-done if you ever want to take it on the road. Maybe sometimes there isn't a choice starting out, but as dedicated busnuts we are in a prime position to lead, instruct, and advise those wannabe owners and let them know that a little extra care take in the beginning can pay off big later down the road. So maybe we should be thinking about how we can mentor those newbies and help them stay out of trouble and not paint themselves into a blind corner. Wouldn't that be a better way to deal with this type of an "invasion"?
Jim
Might be off Topic.
This last February we went to a Bus Rally, called a Skoolie Swarm.
The School Bus converters all refer to their Buses as Skoolies, I did not hear the term Tiny House at all, although there are usually a couple of Skoolies at most Tiny house events.
There were 50 – 70 buses there, 3 of them (including mine) were Coach type Buses, Two MCI and one Prevost, our Coach style buses were totally accepted into this community, a great group of people, all the Skoolies wanted a tour of our MCI.
The Skoolie owners are just as passionate about their buses as we (Busnuts) are, they put just as much work, effort and money into them, most of the buses I toured were all well-constructed, the Skoolie mind set is a little different, most of the Skoolies have a composting toilet as opposed to a flush toilet and Blackwater tank, Skoolies tend to be a little more utilitarian than the Coach conversion.
The Demographic for the Skoolie owners appeared to me at this rally to be between 20 and 39 years old, there are some older but the majority appeared to fit in the Millennial age bracket. This also appears to be the same age bracket that the Tiny House movement falls into.
From what I have observed in my personal experience, this age Bracket does not have the greatest abilities when it comes to mechanical skills.
I do not find that to be the case with the Skoolies, almost everyone of them that I meet are very mechanical and do all their own engine and conversion work.
On the other hand, most of the Tiny House people that I have meet have no mechanical ability and just want to live in a prebuilt little house as opposed to building or working on one.
I have noticed that the Term Tiny House being applied to a Bus Conversion of any type is usually applied by the Tiny House community, and not used by the Bus community.
Peter
We all know the saying,"The more things change, the more they remain the same." Lots of things are just recycled old ideas given a new vocabulary to make them acceptable to newer people who want to believe that they are doing something different. The frumpy image of the old family station wagon was reincarnated as the more hip family SUV. People now go "glamping (short for glamour camping)". They even pay exorbitant prices to stay in someone's old trailer through Airbnb as long as it's listed as glamping not camping. For those who care about the descriptors, it's preferable to say your part of the trendy tiny home movement than to say you live in a van down by the river.
No offense, Van.
Just think of the tiny house movement as a logical transition from cardboard boxes under bridges. Some are even making homes out of shipping containers, some even stacked.
A guy in Ft Mohave called wanting to sell me engines and other components from 6 MCI 9's he bought,you never would believe what he was doing with 6 buses lol I pull in the sides and roofs are off all parked in a nice neat roll I thought he was raising the roofs,I find out he converting old buses to friggn green houses, He told me buses were cheaper than green house frames plus they had storage
I think a Tiny Home has all the features to qualify it for a great Bon Fire at the next Bus rally. :P :-X :o ;D
What irritates me is an article of some gal from NY converting a 40ft GMC transit bus. Making a "tiny house" is different than making a motorhome.
I have about 40,000 miles since conversion on my AMGeneral with zero problems of cabinets coming loose, or plumbing or electrical problems. Tiny Houses are not designed for lots of driving. This is why bus conversions are so extensive and if professionally done, VERY expensive. Compared to a band bus that does 100's of thousands of miles, a Tiny House would be built more like a Winnabagel. Good Luck, TomC
I have to hand it to guys and gals even if it is not a conversion they have neat ideas and loose not 1 inch of space they utilize every square inch not like the average bus converter does that waste a lot of space
I agree, some very clever space usage. I think in a way similar to a 'B" class motorhome and their artistic creativity is great.. Most furniture, bath, living areas serve dual purposes, but, a lot use Ikea like furniture in a box, particle board type build up items. Would they know to secure it to the walls and floors? I worry about these tiny home on wheels in an accident, more than tiny homes staked to the ground or trailers. I created a very open floor plan with little above head cabinet space for my tiny wife. The illusion of openness is counter to tinyness, lvmci...
There is a benefit to all this. Currently, the majority of RV's, except for high end ones are almost the same, same color fabrics, same ceramics,same layouts, many slides, same hardware, same chassis, etc. Only a couple of companies build most of them. When the TV market collapsed a few years ago, many companies were bought out by the few. Not much in the way of ingenuity any more. We've seen this for the past several years at the TV show in Hershey, Pa. Another thing; they never show an TV with the slides run in.Hopefully some of the ingenuous ideas from SOME of the newcomers take hold.
The cabinets in some of 2.5 mil Prevost conversion are particle with laminate I saw one that had cardboard to look like wood on the sides.I am sorta impressed with some of the young people most are apartment dwellers paying up to 20 grand a year for a apartment no larger than a bus.Andrew bought the MCI that was at my place for a year for 2k spent another 3 k on and had a place to live when I asked about the money he spent his answer it was only 3 months rent on my apartment in San Diego I am a head of the game by far I see where they are going I think ::)
The entire alternative living space movement is wonderful to see grow as it offers very affordable, creative, unique, and exciting ways to repurpose old stuff into new use. In fact, my son is mid-20s and seriously looking into one of these options for a few already mentioned reasons: affordability, freedom, and building a substantial nest egg rather than throwing rent money down the drain.
I've not studied it but it seems one can find a fair running skoolie for very little which works fine for those located in a semi-permanent space. And if designed for "park" use, much of the mobile/boondocking features/systems are avoided.
In the end, I don't care what someone calls my bus. They can call it an RV, a motor home, a bus conversion, a tiny house, or a portable outhouse. The only thing I care about is that someone is willing to cough up my asking price when the time comes to sell one day. The more people that are interested in things similar to our buses, the only result can be an increase in demand.
Quote from: richard5933 on May 10, 2019, 12:07:59 PM
In the end, I don't care what someone calls my bus. They can call it an RV, a motor home, a bus conversion, a tiny house, or a portable outhouse. The only thing I care about is that someone is willing to cough up my asking price when the time comes to sell one day. The more people that are interested in things similar to our buses, the only result can be an increase in demand.
Fuel price rising I see they are losing value again every ad I read says reduced by X number of dollars
We don't see many, if any busnuts doing the build/sell cycle anymore.
Used to be a collection of busnuts that would build to order, do your roof raise, install your electric, strip your coach, whatever bits you wanted to hire out.
There used to be some fun money in that.
If the peeps who did bits aren't making money...
This is a hobby, and hobbies cost money.
Tiny homes resale in 10 years?
I got a line on some land in Florida for us to invest in...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I know two people that are renting out their bus conversions on their lot. Not exactly legal.
A couple places I've seen, including one in LV, rent Airstream trailers as motel rooms! Good idea if your thinking of buying one
Tiny motels I guess! lvmci...