I know that other people have done this, so I hope I can get some idea of what is involved in removing the OEM leveling valves and installing a system that can be manually controlled.
Two goals: Allow for some degree of manual leveling at a campground, and eliminate the problems I have with the factory setup going out of adjustment.
How much plumbing needs to be run? What type of manual valves and gauges, etc.
Trying to see if this is a practical idea.
You don't need to remove leveling valves. You install Bendix double check valves near every
Leveling valve. One port is connected to original valve. The front air bags are seperated during manual leveling, revert to factory in highway position. The other port is run up to a control panel where it is convenient to you. Panel has a selector valve to chose between highway and camping. Panel also has 4 mini pressure gauges, and 4 air ride seat push-pull valves. About 150 feet of 1/4 inch air line, assorted tees and elbows, etc. I had the system in our 4104. Installing one in our 4905. All done except for assembling components on panel. I want to post copies of original system papers and include a list of the components and part numbers/ brands of each item. Just haven't got around to it yet.Btw, on mine, I purchased different color air lines for each corner for any diagnostic issues down the road.
Some connect leveling valves to choke cables and do it that way. Since the one in the 4104 worked well, I stuck with it. I'm using all dot lines and fittings. I don't know whether it is necessary, but I'm a little anal/fussy about things.
Ok, so I don't need to remove the leveling valves. But could I?
Don't know why, but I'm constantly finding they're not keeping the bus at the correct height. When I was at Luke's last fall, Bill spent over an hour trying to get the rear set correctly. He thought that it was done, but after just a few hours on the road the bus was about 1-1/2" off left-to-right.
My guy in Milwaukee set it again when we got back. It held for a while, but on the way to the shop to have the Jakes installed it went out again. Parked in the shop's lot and was down on one side again.
They adjusted it, took for a test drive, and when they got back it was tilting the other way. Same issue Bill encountered.
Any advice? Both rear valves were replaced at Luke's, twice just to be sure.
Wondering if the feed lines maybe experiencing intermittent blockage or sluggish response due to dirty filters.
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 16, 2019, 07:43:21 AM
Wondering if the feed lines maybe experiencing intermittent blockage or sluggish response due to dirty filters.
If you mean filters at the leveling valves, there was nothing there when they were changed. Bill was totally stumped - he said that he'd never had such trouble trying to get a GM to sit even with the pavement. The air system in the bus is pretty clean as well, nothing but water comes from the drains (which are drained every day I've got it on the road).
This might sound like a stupid question, but could the leveling difference be the result of weight?
I remember someone had a similar issue last year, and (if I'm remembering correctly) they had to set the valves differently to accommodate the weight on the right side.
This thread is older, but there is a lot of good information:
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=6868.0
The original leveling valves used a glycerin fluid that worked for a delay. The repair kit came with o-rings, new check valves, and a bottle of glycerin. Was a total pita to rebuild them. Throw them out and get universal ones from Luke.
Supply line from Accessory tank to valves and four 1/4" lines. one to each corner at bags. I left in the leveling valves just in case I ever want to hook them up. I measured the body off the ground for correct clearance when driving and found that 85 in the rear and 80 in the front works well. In a campsite I just lift or lower according to my inside levels on dash and side panels. :)
A difference in weight should not effect a properly operating valve. It is weight transfer that tells the valve through geometric change in the leveling arm that air is to be added to or expelled from the air beams. Richard were any of your valves replaced at US Coach? It would seem to me that would be the next move. I have a rear leveling valve that gets finicky once & awhile. It normally operates ok but if you go to screwing around trying to level with it, it will make you crazy. I wouldn't ever do away with the original triple valve set up for obvious reasons. Have you ever noticed that a three legged stool normally sits with all three legs on the surface it's setting on where a four legged stool will usually rock unsteadily? (Hint) ;)
Hi Dave I think we posted almost simultaneously. Maybe MCI & GMC are different air bag specs. Da GM book shows 75 psi as max amount of pressure on the air bags...
Is that spec for the double donut type? We had the 4104 up to 90 to 100 psi occasionally with no issues. Course the bags were in good shape, no cracks.
Dave, that is a great looking control panel, I'd like to build something similar. Are those valves or switches?
Jim
Quote from: Dave5Cs on April 16, 2019, 11:44:01 AM
Supply line from Accessory tank to valves and four 1/4" lines. one to each corner at bags. I left in the leveling valves just in case I ever want to hook them up. I measured the body off the ground for correct clearance when driving and found that 85 in the rear and 80 in the front works well. In a campsite I just lift or lower according to my inside levels on dash and side panels. :)
Four controls and only two gauges - do you have a way to read each corner's pressure independently?
Quote from: dtcerrato on April 16, 2019, 01:07:15 PM
A difference in weight should not effect a properly operating valve. It is weight transfer that tells the valve through geometric change in the leveling arm that air is to be added to or expelled from the air beams. Richard were any of your valves replaced at US Coach? It would seem to me that would be the next move. ...
Yup. I had the bus in Luke's shop last fall. The last thing Bill had on the list was to level out the side-to-side situation for us, but it took him hours. He was frustrated not being able to do what he says is normally easy. Both rear valves had already been changed with new ones from Luke, and Bill changed them again on the outside chance they had been clogged up with something in the air system. Still had problems.
The thing will keep parallel to the road for months, and then on a weekend trip will list to one side so much that we roll out of bed.
The original leveling valves were designed to keep the bus level as passengers got on and off as well as baggage being loaded and unloaded. Since out weight rarely ever changes more than a little bit, I was thinking that it might be time to go to a manual system. It would allow me to set the ride height as we needed, and it would allow me to make some adjustments at a camp site to accommodate a wonky site.
Hang on... roll out of bed?
Is this levelling problem while driving, or after the air has bled down while parked?
Axle is slightly askew parked... air bleeds off, the leveling valve on one side is calling for lift... the air EMPTIES via the now lower pressure supply line, back to the tank and away via the little leaks.
The other side isn't calling for anything and stays sealed up...
Some valves have check valves, some don't, some have failed, as an aside, this is how to crush a busnut quickly, the coach simply lowers when the pressures balance, or worse, the busnut empties the tank, doing maintenance...
There's always a reason, keep digging. Busnut use is unique, and the obscure conditions sometimes stump the pros, used to traditional fleet use conditions.
Nobody cares about a an occasionally leaning empty seated coach.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
like Daves system I put 1/4 " lines 1 per corner no splices to the gauge control and 1 air in line with 5 air gauges .simple air only push to add and pull to let air out . I ended up removing the original leveling system as I never used it after I installed the leveling system . before you start measure all 4 corners in height so you can adjust the pressure to that when you drive the coach
Dave
The Daves agree, LOL
Dan don't know about your coach but our MCI 5C bags according to Goodyear our double convoluted bags can handle 110 lbs safely. We have had them to 100 more than a few times with no problems. I keep them between 60 and 90 depending on how rough a road is. And I would never go back to leveling valves. Our bags stay up where we put them for as long as we want them too.
Richard there are 4 needles in two valves so there is a needle for each corner independently.
Jim they are air valves.
Quote from: buswarrior on April 16, 2019, 03:05:46 PM
Hang on... roll out of bed?
Is this levelling problem while driving, or after the air has bled down while parked?...
Buswarrior
Our air doesn't bleed down. When we park, it will hold that height for months. I parked the bus for winter at the start of December. When I started it the next time in mid-March the height was exactly where we left it. So, at least that part we have - the bus will stay up. For whatever it's worth, at the moment we have no air leaks in the suspension system. The auxiliary tank will bleed down overnight, I think because the wiper switches bleeding air, but the suspension holds itself up.
What I'm talking about is how the bus is in relationship to the road. Assuming a perfectly level parking area, usually we'll pull in to park and the bus will be level side-to-side, as it should since the pavement is level. Occasionally however, it will list to one side - perhaps an inch lower on one side than the other - in spite of a level parking area. This is what I mean by rolling out of bed. When it acts up, it will act up going down the road as well - not maintaining the bus parallel to the road.
Am I correct in assuming that when driving on level/flat pavement the bus should maintain itself parallel to the pavement? And the job of the leveling valves is to maintain the bus parallel to the pavement as the weight load changes inside the bus?
One other question after seeing what you guys have done to manually adjust the height...
The GM has only three leveling valves from the factory - two in the rear for side-to-side adjustment and one in the front for front to rear adjustment. Could your system be configured to maintain the tripod setup that we've got now? If so, then it sounds like I'd need to do is run two airlines from each leveling valve to the new control panel and then use the adjustment valves/gauges like you have in place of the leveling valve. Or do scrap the existing airline feeding the leveling valves and install one master feed line to the new control panel, and then run a single line to supply air to each of the three locations where the leveling valves are now?
Your suspension bellows and levelling valves maintain air pressure integrity when parked, their air source does not.
That's the set-up for the irregular exhausting I described.
Yes, the levelling valve's simple job is to maintain the distance between body and axle at their mounting points.
If weight in the chassis is uneven, the valves care not. Whichever side is trying to be lower or higher will have air put in or taken out to return the body to axle distances.
Put the bus on banking, the body will take on the same angle as the axles.
They lead as busy a life as what a shock absorber does, pretty much in constant motion due to road imperfections. They often develop seepage leaks that trigger the sinking while parked seen on some buses.
The last commercial operator is not going to be fixing air leaks, as they flog the last bit of life out of the coach, so we busnuts inherit a common problem, and levelling valves get a bad name in our hobby.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
You are ready to change your leveling system before you get it figured out? Thousands of air ride coaches with the same system that work fine....keep digging. Is there still air pressure in tank below driver when this happens? If not, think about an auxilliarry air compressor. See post previous on air compressors. You could, at least try one to help in diagnostics. Leaking bag or fitting?
Quote from: chessie4905 on April 16, 2019, 04:56:13 PM
You are ready to change your leveling system before you get it figured out? Thousands of air ride coaches with the same system that work fine....keep digging.
Any suggestions where to look? New leveling valves (x2) from Luke. Two different shops have tried to keep her balanced. I'm out of ideas.
Interesting discussion. Roads are normally not level. They are canted from the center to drain at 2 to 4 degrees or from one side to the other. So if you are driving a bus lets say down that road and it turns around a corner the bus liens one way or the other so it is not at any time the same measurement between the body of the bus and the road unless you are parked on a perfectly level pad.
Going around a clover leaf the bus will after 2 seconds change to level itself or go to its level. Meaning that bus may have been set to out of level like most buses in service are so that the passengers are comfortable on those out of level road.
So if its measurement stayed the same between the body and the axle then it would not be functioning correctly.
If it is less of a lean and then back to level because of the preset and time delay it will not react at all if it is within those original perimeters.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on April 16, 2019, 06:48:03 PM
Interesting discussion. Roads are normally not level. ...
If it is less of a lean and then back to level because of the preset and time delay it will not react at all if it is within those original perimeters.
Using this most recent visit to the shop as an example: The bus was pulled into the shop - parked in a level bay. Driver's side was about 1" lower than the curbside. Ride height was set so that the bus was withing 1/8" side-to-side. Held overnight at same height. Bus went out for a test drive, returned to same bay. Now the driver's side is 1" too high. Ride height was set again, going back to where things were when this all started, but this time the bus sits level.
What's confusing is why it seems to randomly change the side-to-side height settings. It can return to that same level bay half a dozen times and sit perfectly level, and then on the 7th trip out and back it sits off to one side (and may stay there for a few more test trips).
When it was at US Coach last fall, Bill kept setting the ride height. Then he'd dump the air and see if it would come back to the proper height. Each time he did this it seemed to come to a different amount of tilt to one side.
Seems to me like something is sticking, but other than the ride height valves what moving parts are there that could stick?
As far as manufacturer recommendations for air bellows psi - it would differ between the manufacturer of the bag (Goodyear, Firestone, etc.) & the manufacturer of the bus (GM, MCI, etc.) I'm thinking when da 4104 "GM" book says 75 psi max. they're not referring to what the max pressure is that the bag will hold, but are setting the design parameters of what the engineers designed the coach's preferred ride height to be at which in the case of our bus it states to maintain a measurement of 3-1/2" to 3-3/4" distance between the axle & rubber bumper which probably corresponds to the 75 psi air bag. Going a step further than that - would be the ideal relationship of the drive train angles (drive shaft, u-joints, etc.) because they change with height...
We have the capability to manually level our tripod to level out the bus in an uneven campsite or to lean the coach for assisted more efficient dumping of the holding tanks, etc. We didn't change the function of the leveling valves just added tees with 12 vdc activated solenoids between the leveling valve & the air beam. also have a solenoid that will let air expel out of the auxiliary air tank. Taking advantage of the pressure regulator valve we bring the air down to 65 psi - at that point the regulator valve won't feed air to the suspension system so once the bus is manually leveled or leaned to dump using the 3 tripod solenoids it will stay w/o building back up. Being a nickel squeezer (penny pincher) the system cost under $50 and took a whole day to install!
Dan don't know what to tell you but it works fine for us. The reference to the 110 was not that I fill them to that it was just that was what you don't want to go over according to them. Yes I know that keeping it close to 3-1/2 " in height at the bump stops is pretty close to what it is at. We like the ride at 85- 80 better than at 65-75.
I also know you like to keep your coach original. That is something I don't always do. I like to upgrade when possible. Your engine is transverse and ours is a T drive which are slightly out of phase but not much with drop box so not a problem. ;)
So anyway Richard wonder if they cleaned the bag filters right at the end that connects to the bags if they are similar to MCI's. Seems that if it is leaning to the right side that it would definitely be the rear valves.
Check the leveling valve links that connect to the body. If they are too tight, they could cause valve to bind. They should have rubber grommet at each end with a metal sleeve through the grommet, where the bolt attaches. Sleeve missing or worn grommet can cause slop causing your problem.
Quote from: chessie4905 on April 17, 2019, 04:08:32 AM
Check the leveling valve links that connect to the body. If they are too tight, they could cause valve to bind. They should have rubber grommet at each end with a metal sleeve through the grommet, where the bolt attaches. Sleeve missing or worn grommet can cause slop causing your problem.
Thanks - it's now on my list of things to check.
Regarding air pressure - from the Service Manual for our 4108:
..Normal system minimum pressure is 102 psi and maximum pressure is 115-131 psi...System apparently begins to once the pressure gets to 65 psi.
if it was me I would remove the old system and install 4 new lines one to each corner . then you can adjust the height at any time . I have even adjusted the side to side adjustment when I was driving in a wicked side wind .
dave
Quote from: sledhead on April 17, 2019, 04:36:32 AM
if it was me I would remove the old system and install 4 new lines one to each corner . then you can adjust the height at any time . I have even adjusted the side to side adjustment when I was driving in a wicked side wind .
dave
I've read that using 4-corner adjustment on a GM doesn't always end well - something about torquing the body if the adjustments are done wrong and result in a twisting.
Perhaps like you said but with 3 new lines? (Two for rear and one for front)
Quote from: buswarrior on April 16, 2019, 04:52:16 PM
Your suspension bellows and levelling valves maintain air pressure integrity when parked, their air source does not.
That's the set-up for the irregular exhausting I described.
Yes, the levelling valve's simple job is to maintain the distance between body and axle at their mounting points.
If weight in the chassis is uneven, the valves care not. Whichever side is trying to be lower or higher will have air put in or taken out to return the body to axle distances.
Put the bus on banking, the body will take on the same angle as the axles.
They lead as busy a life as what a shock absorber does, pretty much in constant motion due to road imperfections. They often develop seepage leaks that trigger the sinking while parked seen on some buses.
The last commercial operator is not going to be fixing air leaks, as they flog the last bit of life out of the coach, so we busnuts inherit a common problem, and levelling valves get a bad name in our hobby.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I understand the single front valve and dual rear valves automatically maintain the proper level. I suppose weight couldn't matter unless all four corners are independent?
I always try to understand what improvements I should make...hence my interest in this topic.
But overall...is a independent, manual system an improvement over the existing system or would it add another item to the long list of weekly checks?
Or, could it be beneficial to plum an accessible connector directly to the three existing valves and maintain the height with the existing levers?
Questions are part of my thought process...I don't expect answers, and I am grateful for the post. ;D
I'm grateful for this chance to learn ahead of time. Spme of these are pretty sophisticated. They lock in position if the supply tank is under 65 psi, so this is how you bypass the automatic system for leveling in camp with the manual system? I was wondering how that would work. Both systems stay fully operational but you dump the air from the supply tank and use another source to level manually is what i got from that.
It also sounds like there are two types of systems, one with a link to the axles like on a semi that just maintains body to axle height, and one that has some sort of level sensor? (like a turn and bank indicator)
Dave, are you willing to share where you got your dual gages and those slick fill/drain valves?
Jim
All of the commercialy avalible systems Ive ever seen have been 4 point. 4valves 4gauges.. We run 40 right & left front, 48 right rear & 45 left rear..our normal road settings, we weigh 24580 lb fully loaded...
Jim these are where we got them. You can get them assembled for 30.00 extra or they send all the parts and they just snap together no big. Also have 3 ways and two ways etc. :)
https://www.avsontheweb.com/4-x-pneumatic-switches-dual-gauges-panel-with-fittings-airline/
Another one who makes similar stuff is Airbagit.com
I have a 3 point level system in my featherlite now but later years
( newer) they ( hwh ) used a 4 point system as I think it makes it easier to level the coach .
on the M C I it had a 4 point system and in the 10 years I had it never a problem
dave
Quote from: sledhead on April 17, 2019, 09:36:04 AM
...on the M C I it had a 4 point system and in the 10 years I had it never a problem
dave
Big difference between a GM and MCI. The MCI buses use body-on-frame, as does nearly every Class A diesel pusher out there. The GM buses are unibody with no actual frame. (Corrected)
The 3 height control valves in a GM still control air bags at four corners, not a tripod of air bags. The front one will adjust the pressure in the front two corners, raising or lowering the front of the bus. The rear valves each control one side at the rear. If one rear corner goes up or down, the corresponding corner at the front follows since the air can flow between the front two corners.
This isn't the same as a tripod leveling system used in some trailers that has one jack at one end and two at the other end - the GM bus is still supported at all four corners. However, with the factory setup only one axle can be controlled for side-to-side adjustment - the other just follows along.
Our MCI 5A did not have a frame, don't know if any of the MCIs ever had a frame.....don't think so.
Nope our 5C is the same unabody no frame. Originally it had one leveler in the front same as yours that controlled up and down tilt and the rear has 2 one at each side to control side to side which actually is a tripod as in 3 levelers just like yours Richard.
I believe Prevost is the only one with a frame in an actual 35 and 40 ft older bus models but i may be wrong on that.
Now we disconnected from the levelers and connected to the paddle valves in the cab that I installed by the drivers left leg and then directly to the airbag so each side can be adjusted singly or together etc. :)
Thanks for the correction. I thought all MCI buses had a frame. Live and learn.
That torquing the body is bull. If that could be the case, all our coaches would be twisted.
Agree Chessie. If that was the case there would have been a lot of people waiting on twisty roads for another bus with all the luggage. lol :)
If understand all this correctly (which is a long-shot at this point) there are a few main ways guys crack this nut:
Run a new set of lines to each corner of the bus with a T fitting between the current leveling valves and the air bags. These lines would be fed from the new controls/gauges next to the driver for use in leveling at a campground. When going down the road the regular leveling valves would still do their thing.
or
Eliminate the current leveling valves from the system, and use new feeds from the front controls/gauge to control the ride height as well as leveling when in a campground. This could be done using the existing 3 feed points (2 rear, one front) or by splitting the front and using 4 feed points.
Either option, I need to supply a new master supply line to the new control panel and then a feed line to each of the (3 or 4) feed point.
Question - How well do the controls being used hold air in the long run? Will they maintain the set height (pressure) for days/weeks/months or do they bleed down?
Mine held air for months . That's why I ran 1 line to each corner with out any other connections . The air leveling was way faster then the hwh system I have now , maybe because of only air push pull valves and not all the solenoids that control the hwh system
One thing I added was a one way valve and a small air tank for the leveling system to stop any leaking from the rest of the air system
it was a very simple system with all controls right beside my seat so if I needed to I could adjust it on the fly
dave
One thing I don't think was mentioned is the importance of setting proper ride height for motoring.
Suspension geometry has been designed around that height.
On a level surface, get those underbody axle to bump stop distances set, then choose a more readily available external point to do measuring for routine setting. The wheel well, the bumper, the step bottom, whatever.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Too bad there isn't any easy way to monitor the bump stop distance when driving. A simple turn and bank indicator could help you stay level on crowned highways but it looks like you would have to rely on bag pressure to maintain the ride height. I wonder if that relationship stays constant with temperature changes?
I sort of favor the tripod system, and HWI apparently sets up their hydraulic systems that way too, at least Dave's S&S is. I also used a tripod on my old Coachman when I built that system but I only used one cylinder in the front. It worked quite well but as you would expect it was much more sensitive to side/side leveling than front/back. It seems to me that a 4 way system would be sensitive to wracking, and knowing what that does to an offroad truck I'd hesitate to subject something 45 ft long to any more of that than I had to. No matter how rigid it is, that's going to stress the skin. No guarantees I'm going to be the only one to ever mess with the controls, or that an airbag or line won't leak.
Jim
I kept my 3 position automatic leveling valves. At each position I added 3 air 12v solenoids-one normally open and two normally closed. Between the air bags and the automatic leveling valve I put inline the normally open solenoid. Between the normally open solenoid and the air bags I T'd in the two normally open solenoids. In operation, when I activate the normally open solenoid, it closes off the air line from the automatic leveling valve. Then with the two normally closed solenoids-one is attached to the air system of the bus to add air and the other is to simply exhaust air. So now it takes about 10 seconds to level my bus. I used RedTop solenoids and the switches are right behind the driver's seat. Good Luck, TomC
As long as I have air, no need for solenoids or any electrical components.
HwH is a leveling system that uses the air bags that come on the coach and not a hydraulic jack system and there should not be any flexing of the body as it uses the same air bags that is part of the suspension of the coach . not like the system on a low end s/s motor home like a old Coachman
I agree a simple air system is all you need . buy do what ever makes you happy
dave
OK - I need some help understanding how this thing is working/not working.
Took the bus to a local resort area for a one-night shakedown cruise last weekend. It sat perfectly level (parallel to the road) all the way there and back, and while parked in the Walmart lot sat just as I expect it to.
The slab at home is slightly askew - out of level in both directions. The drain at the downhill end of the slab is located at one corner, so the whole thing is sloped towards that corner with a few inches of drop diagonally across the slab from the upper corner to the opposite lower corner.
When I got home I parked the bus like I normally do. The high corner of the bus is the driver's side front corner, and the slope of the slab puts the curbside rear corner in the downhill position.
As normal, when parked on our wonky slab the curbside of the bus sat about 1/2" closer to the slab than the driver's side. It seemed like the leveling valves just couldn't quite figure out how to adjust themselves to the wonky slab.
Then came the problem. I had to reseal the black tank discharge valve, so I needed to turn the bus around so that the curbside was now parked towards the higher side of the slab. This involved a few back-and-forths on our sloped gravel back lot and then reparking on the slab. Ideally the bus would sit parallel to the slab, but since it's wonky I wasn't expecting it to be perfect. At the worst, I expected the same 1/2" problem as before, but towards the opposite side.
When I got done parking and the bus finished trying to adjust itself, the side of the bus which is now on the downhill side of the slab now sits a full 1" closer to the slab than the uphill side.
What would cause the bus to bring the downhill side of the bus closer to the slab than the uphill side? It really seems that the system just gets confused and doesn't know what it's supposed to do when parked on our wonky slab.
The rear leveling valves were replaced (twice - once here in Milwaukee and then again in Luke's shop last fall just to be sure they were good). Bill inspected the entire system and couldn't find any problems.
Is this just a quirk of the system trying to level after parking, or is there an actual problem?
Stock valve function is not to "level".
They are to set and maintain the ride height between axle and body.
If the slab leans, so too shall the axles, and so too shall the body.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
But all this is acting on a rubber balloon, with rubber radius rod bushings, with uneven loading of the weight in the coach...
There's room for squirm here, if you are using a micrometer.
I can assure you, no bus mechanic is using one for suspension adjustments.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on May 08, 2019, 04:33:36 PM
But all this is acting on a rubber balloon, with rubber radius rod bushings, with uneven loading of the weight in the coach...
There's room for squirm here, if you are using a micrometer.
I can assure you, no bus mechanic is using one for suspension adjustments.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Would the bus being 1" closer to the pavement on the downhill side than the uphill side still be within normal variance? Seems more than an micrometer here.
The bus sits perfectly parallel to the ground on level ground. Put it on a side-to-side slope and it exaggerates the slope by dropping on the downhill side.
Or, is the 'squirm' of the rubber air bags and rubber bushings allowing enough sideways movement towards the downhill side of the slope that it's affecting the relative position of the leveling valve arm in relationship to the body/axle?
The HWH Active Air only works with a bus with the computerized chassis don't do like I did and rush out and buy 1 ;D it even reads the steering.You can solve building a system with Norgern or Humphery valves between the bags run wires not tubing base it on the low and high level the new buses are using
Quote from: luvrbus on May 08, 2019, 06:41:29 PM
The HWH Active Air only works with a bus with the computerized chassis don't do like I did and rush out and buy 1 ;D it even reads the steering.You can solve building a system with Norgern or Humphery valves between the bags run wires not tubing base it on the low and high level the new buses are using
Not sure I understand. HWH wasn't on my radar as an option. I want to keep things as simple as possible, but still be able to have the bus ride parallel to the pavement.
Usually this is only a problem parked on a sloped pavement, but on the way home from Luke's we had a problem where the bus seemed to want to exaggerate the slope of the road by dropping the body on the low side of the road. Very frustrating since Bill had just spent hours working on this.
When we got home my local shop was able to get things set right, but it still acts up from time to time (like today).
Quote from: richard5933 on May 08, 2019, 06:44:43 PM
Not sure I understand. HWH wasn't on my radar as an option. I want to keep things as simple as possible, but still be able to have the bus ride parallel to the pavement.
Usually this is only a problem parked on a sloped pavement, but on the way home from Luke's we had a problem where the bus seemed to want to exaggerate the slope of the road by dropping the body on the low side of the road. Very frustrating since Bill had just spent hours working on this.
When we got home my local shop was able to get things set right, but it still acts up from time to time (like today).
The reason I mention it was because HWH built the manual system for old buses and air bag RV's that is what most people are copying here but HWH no longer sales the kit ;D ;D ;D only the Active Air. That kit with the gauges and all the hardware from HWH for the manual leveling system was only $600.00 I installed one on my MCI 8 .You still can take 2 Norgren 3 way slider valves,a little wiring 2 -3 way toggle switches and build that system for 250 bucks
Richard, pull the coach on to plank stubs to compensate for the your screwed up pad, till the tires are on level. If that fixes it, get a dozer and fix the pad.