From. National Bus Trader Magazine:
Irizar created its own company last year Irizar USA LLC – which is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada. The company is already well positioned to carry forward the distribution and aftersales support of the Irizar i6 motorcoach by recruiting the well-qualified team members that have been a part of the initial step of introducing the Irizar brand to the market.
Irizar USA will move forward with the marketing, sales and support of the Irizar i6 motorcoach, a 45-foot long integral luxury motorcoach, but a new phase will nowstart with renewed enthusiasm. Irizar is a world-class leading coach manufacturer with 130 years of experience with more than 3,500 employees, and Irizar USA is a 100 percent factory-owned distribution company. The establishment of Irizar USA is to show the firm commitment of the brand towards the U.S. market
The range of products in the current catalog includes the 45-foot i6 motorcoach, which comes in two height versions, the standard and the SuperCargo version offering best-in-class storage capacity. The Irizar i6 motorcoach has a Cummins 12-liter engine and Allison B500 driveline
The service network is still in the process of expansion. Irizar service provides personalized solutions designed and created to provide the best: financing, repair and maintenance contracts and pick-up of your used vehicle. Having an integral repair service, tune-ups and maintenance with the maximum guarantee 24 hours a day 365 days a year is still a value that cannot be beaten.
Customers are given close follow-up and advice that translate into optimization of vehicle reliability and availability. It includes integrated electronic management, Irizar connectivity, as well as fleet management solutions and remote diagnosis that result in a considerable reduction of consumption and emissions.
The spectacular design is one of the strengths of Irizar: the aerodynamics optimizes fuel consumption and confers prestige on its owners. At the same time, exceptional comfort for drivers, guides and passengers is offered guaranteeing an unforgettable experience.
Another Irizar maxim is the option for unlimited customization it offers to the market and to operators, which is undoubtedly a competitive advantage.
I've already seen several Irizars on the strip, looks reminiscent of 1940/60s MCI & GM areo style fronts , lvmci...
We are in Mexico now. They are common here, as in many other parts of the world. They face an uphill battle against Prevost and MCI in the North American market. But if they are indeed luxurious and well built, with good after sales support, the charter companies and the tour companies will embrace them. Prevost and MCI aren't perfect. I drive late models of both brands, and they still have flaws that haven't been addressed. It will be interesting to see how Irizar cars will be accepted by the industry. Remember a few years ago when ABC started bringing in VanHools and touting them as the bees knees. They never broke into the top two most desirable buses that are MCI and Prevost cars.
JC
There are lots of Irizars in the UK, usually on Scania chassis from what I have seen. They are built in Turkey I believe. Nice coaches for sure, but quite 'heavy' looking I've always thought - there are more subtle and stylish builders
Jeremy
This Irizar 3rd time around to try the American market they may get right this time but I have my doubts ,I read in bus magazine where Volvo dropped them as a body builder and went with another company and PO Irizar the Spaniards didn't like it much.The buy America for transit authorities is forcing manufactures to open plants here Vanhool just built a plant here the commuter bus is a big market that MCI rules
https://www.metro-magazine.com/motorcoach/news/725497/one-year-later-irizar-i6-gains-in-u-s-market1
Well see. If they hold up well and the company is on top of customer service, they may have a bright future here. I would imagine they are very competitive due to lower labor costs.
I can see MCI closing shop in a few more years due to increased competition, if they keep losing market share, and they can't control production costs.
A friend of mine who has passed now had 6 of the Irizar buses. They were on Sparten chassis and all six were different in some way. He liked them but of course they are long gone.
Jack
MCI has a foot hold on the commuter bus market that not going away anytime soon,Irizar cannot sell to that market even Prevost gave it a shot and came up short and closed their plant in NY
Yeah, GM had a foot hold....ONCE!
I went to Irizar's office (shop?) not far from G&R and B&B's old shop, they have a big lot but looked mostly empty...
Quote from: chessie4905 on March 10, 2019, 03:40:26 PM
Yeah, GM had a foot hold....ONCE!
GM killed themselves off.
Basically no product development on the highway side after the late 60's, and, same as their autos, arrogantly thought no one could touch them on the transit side, even though the competitors were making ever increasing sales as each year passed...
Accountants vs engineers/product people, we all know how that worked out, and still see the impact today.
I'd like to see some competition, good for keeping everyone honest and working hard.
Virtual monopolies lead to laziness and silly ideas.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
What about the RTS series? Also came the Buffalo series. Even so, things like labor costs in an old company will hurt compared with a new company with young workers, many years from guaranteed pensions.
MCI and PREVOST still dominate and I can't see that changing anytime soon. MCI's J4500 is a fine solid coach and they are everywhere with much acceptance Same holds true with the PREVOST H and X models. Many of the early VAN-HOOL's over here had problems but the newer ones have improved. TEMSA and SETRA are also players that hold their own especially TEMSA with their 35' coaches. So with IRIZAR, time will tell if they will become a formidable competitor to the old guard or a disaster like BCI when they tried to make a dent in the market but their quality was horrible.
MCI is not going anywhere they are the only manufacture of commuter buses (not transit) that have a CNG engine or Hybird setup the D4500 CNG buses are popular in CA and are the only buses that have been Altoon tested for safety the other players have some catching up to do to enter that market
Having hybrid and CNG coaches was much easier after transits developed and proved the application. If competitors use same driveline but can provide superior relialability and service, along with much lower cost to purchase...who knows? Hope it never happens. Problems with obtaining parts at a reasonable price and availability for for Our Eagles and GMC's is serious enough without MCI's going the same way.
Unintended or intended changes in regulations and laws have tripped up many businesses over the years.
There's also the MCI/New Flyer overlay, they've revamped their entire parts system and the duplication of product lines seems to be low, compared to a lot of big company mergers and purchases...
I've owned fleets of new buses and fleets of old buses. When you start buying new buses you don't just buy the bus, you buy into the manufacturer, technical and parts support, and their people and most importantly, the resale value of the bus say 8 years down the road. Guys that buy these cheap oriental and Euro buses only look at the low get in price then they find out they are not worth anything 3+ years down the road. VanHool gave us the rush, a great sales pitch, I said what's it gonna be worth in 10 years compared to MCI or Prevost, they wouldn't answer that one. Parts availability crummy too; they said they would give us 10K of new parts in our parts room for free if we bought. I was right, 5-8 years later the VH was worth WAY less than H3-45. At Prevost I could call up anyone from the regional tech rep clear up to the president of the company at any time if there was a problem, that my friend is good support. Irizar will be another fail but they keep trying, lol.
That's what creates brand loyalty being involved in the business as you stated.
But at the same time, brand loyalty does no good if the quality suffers and the customer keeps buying from the same builder anyway just because the salesman is nice is rather foolish.
Irizar is only a body builder of course, and I guess their success or otherwise in the US will very largely depend upon whose mechanicals are used - if they use Volvo for instance (since Volvo = Prevost) then presumably that would answer many of the concerns about parts and servicing?
According to Wikipedia Scania, MAN, Volvo and Mercedes are the usual chassis that Irizar use, and of course in Europe (and I realise the US market is structured very differently) it's the customer who specifies which chassis they want their chosen body to be built on - I'm guessing though that in the States Irizar will be partnering with a single chassis supplier to offer just one off-the-shelf package
(BTW, I know I keep using the term "chassis" which is incorrect given that everything nowadays is obviously monocoque - I don't know what the correct terminology is now though - 'subframes' perhaps)
Incidentally, I was wrong before when I said they were Turkish - they're actually Spanish
Jeremy
I think you can just call it a platform.
That's interesting so I wonder now if the ones over here will use a FREIGHTLINER platform or are these like MCI and are built completely in-house hence no outside platform meaning no divided responsibility.
If an existing company partners with them... those are decision made by short sighted accountants...
Why would you commit suicide by nurturing the competition?
Someone at MCI finally figured that one out, when they dumped their Setra fetish...
Separate body on chassis are firmly positioned in the lower tier market in the US and Canada, are built cheap, and are disposable.
Integrated platform that won't shake itself apart on pothole filled roads is the path to success.
Van Hool still can't keep their coaches, single or double deck, from falling apart, pounding around the Northeast USA... to be fair, they are trying, but there's further to go...
Let's see if the new owners of Coach USA/Megabus continue to buy them in large numbers...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Partnerships between body builders and 'platform' builders (that's as good a term as any BTW) isn't 'nurturing the competition' - rather the opposite, it's bringing together two companies who specialise in different things and who both need the other in order to succeed.
Having said that, I've always wondered quite how Mercedes view things given that they DO build their own bodies (and also own Setra) in addition to supplying their oily bits to other bus builders.
Out of interest, what mechanicals are Van Hools sold with in the States? Also - Freightliner was mentioned - I know they build motorhome chassis etc but do they do 'platforms' for monocoque bodies as well?
Jeremy
The VAN-HOOL CX and TX over here are offered with CUMMINS or DETROIT engines and ALLISON transmissions as does the TD which is the double decker but I think that one is CUMMINS only.
FREIGHTLINER generally builds bus chassis(or platform) for bus builders that don't build their own in house version. https://www.freightlinerchassis.com/
They are owned by DAIMLER so yes, that can be a spaghetti plate of potential questionable practices about your suggestion of helping the competition. But they serve areas where they don't really compete.
So in fact Van Hool do it slightly differently again; I've looked at the Wikipedia page about them and it says exactly that - that they build both complete buses themselves (except the engine and transmission), as well as the usual bodies for fitment onto the usual Volvo & Scania etc platforms. And I remember years ago seeing a reference to a 'Plaxton Van Hool' and puzzling about exactly how that could work - but presumably if Van Hool build some of their buses with their own suspension and sub-frame assemblies then no-doubt they've sometimes sell those assemblies to other body builders too.
Isn't the bus industry in Europe complicated?
Jeremy
Edit: I've just looked on Plaxton's own used bus sales website and they actually offer Van Hool CHASSIS as one of the search options
Irizar is very well established in Mexico, and positioned there as a premium product - most of the First-Class and Executive-Class operators have large fleets of Irizar-bodied MANs or Scanias. The scale of long-distance bus services in MX is on a completely different level to anything in this country - for example, Mexico City has four huge, and I mean well over 100 bays each, bus stations that are 100% busy 24 hours a day, with services to popular destinations such as Guadalajara leaving every few minutes: you have to see it to believe it! Most companies there are using MAN, Scania and Mercedes running gear with bodies by Irizar and Marco Polo, or Volvo 9700s with factory bodies. In other words, Irizar is already catering to a very competitive market, and doing very well there especially with its PB body in both two and three axle lengths. In my personal subjective experience I would say that the Irizar PB has fewer squeaks and rattles than equivalent Marco Polo bodies on the sometimes very rough roads where the heavy trucks have broken up the surface, such as 57D north out of CDMX that is really bad. They appear to be well-made, and even buses with many hundreds of thousands of KMs on their odometers still are tight and quiet without body noises; I've ridden in relatively new Van Hools here that are more rattly than Irizar PBs.
Let's not write Irizar off just yet. They won't put MCI and Prevost out of business, but there's always room for more competition, especially from a good product. I hope they do well here, even if it's in a niche market such as Setra's and Volvo's.
John
Only market Irizar can sell to is the tour operators in the US that well covered by Prevost,MCI and Vanhool I don't see the market for Irizar,M/B with the Setra never could compete on a large scale even with a parts and service outlet in the US.Irizar had a crappy reputation for electrical problems in the past with the CAN system and who knows what chassis they will use for the American market. I give them A for trying though they will try with special financing like deferred payments and free service but who is going to drive a bus across the US to Vegas for service
Blackberry and Nokia had the US phone market pretty well wrapped up. No one really expected that to change anytime soon. And then came the iPhone.
If Irizar (or any company) comes up with a new/novel product that makes everything else obsolete they'll be the new king of the market. Until something better comes along.
That's very true. IRIZAR may or may not be a good coach in Mexico or other areas but it still has to prove itself here. MCI and PREVOST have nothing to worry about as long as they keep doing fine overall work and yes, competition is always a good thing.
Sure we're all bus fans here and we all have our favorites. However, the non bus person taking a charter trip won't care who built the bus just so long as it's comfortable and doesn't konk out right in the middle of nowhere ruining an otherwise fine vacation. That makes both the charter operator look bad not to mention the coach builder
And don't forget the revolutions (long-distance electric vehicles and driverless buses) that are just around the corner. The world moves fast nowadays and there is no such thing as a company with a safe market share. The big auto makers are spending $billions on R&D and even they aren't safe from complete upstarts like Tesla, and there are (for instance) vast corporations building cars / buses / trucks in China now that no-one in the West has even heard of yet, and they'll all soon be wanting to expand overseas too. Everything will be to play for over the next few years
Jeremy
Well the driverless idea for vehicles has a ways to go yet before people feel confident about them.
I'm not too crazy about the Chinese imports since I'm mostly a "Build it here" man. However, if a charter operator wants to buy such a product, then all the more power to them. But if it fails, I'll have to resist the urge to say I told you so. :)
Las Vegas buys the double decker Vanhools with their own funds they are not allowed to purchase those with funds from the US government they try and work around restrictions by leasing.You guys forget Neoplan builit a plant in CO that is now closed to sell their buses here that billion dollar deal didn't fly and left cities holding the bag like Houston Metro.Bluebird is gone,Eagle,BCI,Neoplan and others Prevost and MCI are not worried
NEOPLAN USA was great until they decided that quality was no longer important.
They certainly had a wide range of buses in their lineup.
While I was in Vegas with my wife I noticed the VanHools all had one thing in common they all said out of service
Maybe they put those "out of service" signs up to discourage the drunken gamblers from trying to board or flag down the first bus they see.
Or, they are broken.
LOL I was close to maintaince and training shop they were broken
So what exactly is the problem with VAN-HOOL over here anyway?
They've been selling various models of buses for over 20 years so how long does it take to get it right?
At G&R bus shop in LV, VanHools have a lot of air conditioning problems, over and above mechanical problems. lvmci...
Quote from: CrabbyMilton on March 12, 2019, 06:29:59 AM
Well the driverless idea for vehicles has a ways to go yet before people feel confident about them.
I'm not too crazy about the Chinese imports since I'm mostly a "Build it here" man. However, if a charter operator wants to buy such a product, then all the more power to them. But if it fails, I'll have to resist the urge to say I told you so. :)
No need for "I told you so"s. I'm not trying to tell anyone anything, just to point out that it ain't the 1950s anymore and there's a hell of a lot more going on in the world than just MCI, Prevost and Detroit Diesel. Stuff that happens in other countries is important, and new technologies are important, no matter how much of a short-termist "it'll never happen here" mindset you take. (And to make the point - I believe I'm right in saying that MCI, Prevost & DD themselves are no longer even American-owned any more)
Jeremy
I do realize that it's not the 1950's but what does that have to do with desiring to build a product designed for America to be built in America? Sadly, we've done so much over the decades to chase business away then to attract them. Then you have the masses who don't care where their stuff comes from just so long as they get it and have no appreciation for history or heritage. True MCI, PREVOST and DETROIT DIESEL are not American based and that presents a spaghetti plate of who owns what. But I guess for better or worse, I have to put myself in the place of the often clueless masses and say it could be built from little green men from Mars and if it works that's fine. But why not build it here if possible?
Oh, CUMMINS is an American based company so is ALLISON.
That is true Jeremy but they have American parts not the off the wall European crap like the differentials,brakes and other components and our trade with Canada is different also hell they even build Fords and Chevy in Canada and MCI has a plant in the USA ,Vanhool will soon open a plant here to comply with the build America for transit use.Don Laughlins Casnio here his VanHools give a lot of electrical trouble lol I like the VanHools they keep me busy.The difference you call MCI or Prevost for parts overnight you have parts call ABC for Vanhool it sometimes takes weeks.Anyone know what the base price of the Irizar is going to cost ? I bet it going to be well below the 600k of a MCI or Prevost the Vanhools are.i do know they will be made in Mexico because of our trade agreement with Mexico
No body home! Maybe they just wanted a Nevada address for a corporation address, lvmci...
That is the old BCI building isn't it ?
Well they moved away to a different building, eliminated the INA, now it's Irizar company, but no room for buses out side, but 2 garage doors, lvmci...
Clifford, the building is less than a mile south (past Orleans) from B&B on Arville st. A street called Business Center Way, tom...