I have been reading about Buses with 6-71 and 6V71 Detroit Diesel Engines and how they could be converted to having 6-92 and 6V92 Detroit Diesel Engines. As the 92 Series Detroit Diesel Engines are basically from what I can understand really just a bored out 71 Series Detroit Diesel Engines, unless I have been mistaken in my reading and research. I think that being able to convert a 71 Series Detroit Diesel Engine to a 92 Series Detroit Diesel Engine would be great. Having increased cubic inches 6-71/6V71 = 426cuin 6-92/6V92 = 552cuin of displacement would not only increase the power H.P./Torque ratings but also the effectiveness of a Jake Brake if I chose to install one. Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts, opinions, or answers. I would really like input from people who have worked on or rebuilt one.
Regards,
Rifleman
Quote from: Rifleman on March 04, 2019, 07:09:45 AM
I have been reading about Buses with 6-71 and 6V71 Detroit Diesel Engines and how they could be converted to having 6-92 and 6V92 Detroit Diesel Engines. As the 92 Series Detroit Diesel Engines are basically from what I can understand really just a bored out 71 Series Detroit Diesel Engines, unless I have been mistaken in my reading and research. I think that being able to convert a 71 Series Detroit Diesel Engine to a 92 Series Detroit Diesel Engine would be great. Having increased cubic inches 6-71/6V71 = 426cuin 6-92/6V92 = 552cuin of displacement would not only increase the power H.P./Torque ratings but also the effectiveness of a Jake Brake if I chose to install one. Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts, opinions, or answers. I would really like input from people who have worked on or rebuilt one.
That is not really true 92's have a totally different liner it not the same size on the top as the bottom
Regards,
Rifleman
Thanks for your input luvrbus. Unfortunately I didn't think it would be that easy, as much as I want it to be. Would it even be possible to do something like this? Or are the dry liners and wet liners that different? I know that the heads are very different.
Regards,
Rifleman
No. 71 series has dry liners, 92 has wet liners. There are other differences too. Easiest would be to swap a 6V92TA in place of a 6V71. Same size, same motor mounts. You would have to fab the exhaust and intake piping.
JC
Thanks JC, here's what I was wanting to do. I was wanting to take a 4V71 and bore it out to accept 92 Series Pistons to essentially make a 4V92 for a more heavy duty pickup truck.
Best Regards,
Rifleman
I think you are visualizing a cast block like in gas engines that can be bored out to increase cubic inches. That will not work in this situation. Some people have put Series 53 Detroit Diesels in pickups, but that is about all that is possible. If you want diesel power in a pickup, get a Ford with a Powerstroke 7.3L. If you want troubles, get the 6.0L, or newer ones. Then there are Cummins engines in the Ram pickups, and the Duramax diesels in the GM's. In all cases, the older versions are better for dependability.
They weren't made to be bored out. The bore stays essentially the same and have oversize liners available to deal with block wear, but they aren't much oversize. I would imagine you would get into the head bolt holes at the very least trying to overbore, along with other issues. You could turbo that engine for increased power, but it will never hold a candle to a Duramax, Cummins, or Power stroke, no matter how much you hop it up and keep it reliable. Plus the noise in the vehicle from that engine and the weight and height of it. Maybe you can hook up with an owner of one on You tube and pick their brain.
Here's a little reading on the engines. Forget the high horsepower numbers though. Boats can run those hp numbers because they have the whole ocean to cool the engines.
Too bad they never built a 6-92.
That would have been a power upgrade to the 6-71 and pretty much fit in the same powertrain setup.
Rifleman, what engine are you running now?
CM how about using a 6-110? I wonder if the angle drive in a 4104 would handle a 6v-92?
Hello CrabbyMilton, someone please correct me if I'm wrong or mistaken but at one point or another didn't they make a 6-92 or at least a 6V92 Detroit Diesel?
They built the 6V-92 for many years and that was the standard engine in most transit and over the road buses from about the early 80's until they phased them out by the late '90's. These were also the standard engines in fire apparatus much of that time frame as well. The 6V-92 pretty much replaced the 8V-71 and the 8V-92 was offered for those that wanted more HP in over the road buses and fire trucks.
The 6V-92 was a V6 as was the 6V-71. The 6-71 was a straight 6 and I don't believe there ever was a straight 6 version of the 92 series. The
In my time reading and researching I may have been misled or led astray from different sources like this [ thedieselpageforums.com
wyodetroit
aluminum Detroit V653T twin turbo- supercharged
1988 Chevy 4x4 1 ton truck with Detroit V653T twin turbo- supercharged aluminum block engine and Allison automatic trans. Engine starts and runs perfect. Has twin 5.9 cummins turbos along with stock supercharger. Very fast, pleanty of power, Very light engine, block is aluminum. Injectors were 170s, from diesel doug world record Detroit 6V53t drag car racer, but truck was too way fast, replaced with 90s. Massive torque, turbos match engine perfect and spool up fast and responsive. Transmission is 654 Allison and transfer case is out of light & power truck. Set up right. Truck has so much torque just driving easy it barks tires in all gears, even when it goes into lockup at 65 mph.
here is link..
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4673103375.html
The Good---- rare aluminum block 6V53T Detroit, runs perfect, cheap to work on entire fuel system can be replaced for 400 bucks, injectors on ebay are only 50 bucks. less than 1200 bucks rebuilds entire engine. Solid truck and solid engine and trans. 100% rust free Wyoming truck NO RUST.
The bad --- needs new carpet, paint job is fading in a few places, radio does not work, rear tires hold air, but rubber is thin..
truck is for sale locally, reserve right to end auction early.. Just this rare engine alone as core you can pay 5k, only want 8k for all of truck, and engine does not need rebuilt.
If you need help shipping , I can help as long as truck is paid for 1st. truck is located at 82301 zip code..
Detroit V653T aluminum block engine facts
Detroit V653T alumuim block engine only 1200 lbs instead of 1900 lbs cast iron block ^v53 engine.
V653T alumuim block Has 4 bolt main craddle all the way down unlike standard cast Iron block.
V653T alumuim block has Higher compression 21:1 proformace with turbo, not 17:1 like non turbo standard cast iron block engines. higher compression starts easier in cold weather.
V653T alumuim block Stock dyno 330hp 800 ft lbs torque with N70 injectors.
HP can be bumped up to
400hp with n90 injectors
650 hp with N 160 injectors
with nitros can go to 950 hp and still be a daily driver.
OIl pressure is high volume oil pump 90 psi unlike standard cast iron 6v53 engines.
more water jackets around sleeves lower down for better and faster cooling.
even though block is alluim block it has brass inserts so it still has full integretiy and strenght.
Twin turbos off of 5.9 cummins 12 valve diesel.
larger oil pan , with special sump so oil pressure even at masive inclines.
extra water ports in block in lower part of block for exstreme cooling.
But has smae irom pistons and sleves as iron block engine.
Iron heads.
Bell houseing is SAE 3#, but can be changed if needed.
because it is alluim block, it only weighs 1200# lbs instead of 1800 lbs#
stock RPMS
no load 3000 rpms
with load 2800 rpms
detroit diesel had fire ring head gaskets before it was cool.
Detroit also had the first roller cam stock that all newer gas engines now have.
wwII won.
Also will run any fuel, diesel , keresene, waste oil, gasoline oil mix, if it burns engine can be made to run on it.
] as well as this [ Gone Fishen
The 71 is a dry liner engine. Can be bored to 0.010,0.020, 0.030. Hp went from 265 to 400 hp depending on how much fuel you wanted to put in. The 'n' engine was the best configeration. Problems arose when someone decided to put a turbocharger on them. Went down hill from there. Then came the 92 series. Early engines had the same problems as the old 71. Slobber tubes leaking, excessive idling, cracked liners ect. The 92 series came out turbocharged from the get go. They did make an 'n' configeration but I only saw them in industrial applications. Then came the 'silver' engine. Blocks were beefed up, water pumps were better, cooling was better, hp went to 475 with 'normal injectors. I did a few with 9225 injectors. 9290 was the norm, 90mm output. 9225 was a 125mm output injector. The early 92 series had head problems but then they corrected that. The new style had a different part# on the head casting and a 'dog-bone' mark on the casting also. The 92 could take 220* for a short while.
Now the next thing heard here. The 71 and 92 are the same size. Blocks,flywheel housings,heads,blowers,turbo's injectors ect ect. The difference is 3/4 inch longer for the 92 motor mounts. THAT IS ALL. Oh ya the hp is different but everything can be interchanged. However do not try to mix the heads, cooling passages and valves are different configeration. Yes they can be bolted on each other. It won't work but they can be bolted on each. Nest came the new improved cylinder kits. (https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/phoney.gif) They all were a 2 piece design and had a 'rubber' seal between the piston skirt and piston dome. This was a much better design because the old models had a metal sealring. A lot less oil dripping. The blowers can be intermixed between them, turbo's also, injectors are the same size, fuel lines, NOT the valve bridges, jakes were a 71/92 configeration, same thing. same setting. Anything I have forgotten? Oh ya, DO NOT let any contamination get into the 92 oil pan like diesel or coolant. The main bearings will spin and ruin the crankshaft/block. The 71 seeries will take it but the 92 will not. Interesting enough is that the 71 and the 92 crankshaft bores in the block are the same except for 0.0005 difference. 92 is that much larger due to main bearing torque of 50ft# more. The bearings can be mixed up but DON"T Do IT. They are different. DDA is trying to get out of the 2 cycle business, has been for years. You will find out in todays market that parts are scarce. They are not making them anymore and someone else is. We have 2 92 series in shop now and the waiting list for parts for us is 2 months for parts. Forget the 71 parts, go find parts in the wrecking yards. Cannot get a used/new 8v-71 head for love or money. Now did I forget anything???????? Oh ya, 92 series went to 500 hp with electronic's. Did see a few 515 hp in motor homes. (https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
] according to Gone Fish the 71 Series Detroit and the 92 Series Detroit are more similar than I had originally thought, and if by simply upping the injector and turbo size like wyodetroit did to a 53 Series then a 6V92 or a converted 4V71 to 4V92 should blow the doors off modern diesel pickups. For just a hair more engine weight than a 5.9/6.7 Cummins. Also may just be wishful thinking on my part.
Rifleman
Another case of you can't believe everything you see on the internet. Check several sources before you get your hopes up.
I agree with you completely DoubleEagle. It's to bad things aren't fact checked before it's actually able to be posted to the internet. I'm also from Missouri and I generally don't believe anything unless you can actually show it to me. Just thought that I would make the things I've found visible so no one travels down the rabbit hole to nothing. The only thing that I've actually found to be true is when people change little things in the 5.9L 6BT Cummins. Like changing intake and exhaust to get you a little more power (normally less than 50H.P.) But I do like how the 2-Stroke Detroits sound not much better in my opinion.
Rifleman
Go buy it. Just remember issues like cracked heads, rare parts. I wouldn't try to tow with it. If oil hasn't been changed recently, get oil sample. Sure it can be done, but good luck trying it in a coach with serious weight many btdt over the years.
Thanks Chessie4905, who are some of the 2-Stroke Detroit Diesel experts here in the states that I might be able to get into contact with? For some reason there seem to be a lot of 2-Stroke Detroit Diesel experts in Australia I really wonder why that is. I know that there is Shafer Diesel in Tennessee, Leid Diesel, Industrial Injection, and maybe Scheid Diesel but I really don't know if any of the above really specialize in the 2-Stroke Detroits. Be nice to be able to contact the companies that do pulling or drag racing events or marine boating applications with the Old Detroits as I'm sure there is a wealth of knowledge there regarding what works and what doesn't.
Rifleman
6-110 is a VERY heavy engine-like as much as a 12V-71. Externally the 6V-71 and 6V-92 are virtually identical. The only way you can tell the difference is by the 92 on the block.
The is no such thing as a 4V anything. There is a 4-53 and 4-71.
I think it is time for all to consider switching to a modern 4 cycle engine. 6-71 can be replaced with a Cummins ISB (280hp 660lb/ft torque [HD rating]). 6V-92TA can be replaced with Cummins ISL (450hp and 1250lb/ft torque). Good Luck, TomC
The more horsepower on the DD 2 strokes, the more heat issues.
FWIW 21:1 to 25:1 is pretty standard for the 53 series and are wet like 92 series the aluminum blocks the liners are pressed into a heat block sorry little engines short life but they will make hp and noise
Tom C
Have they figured out how to make those Cummings turn backward.
uncle ned
903 can turn backwards.
On a V730 or V731, they make a reverser gear. Right hand engines that have run through the V730 with reverser gears is the Cummins ISL, ISM, ISC and Detroit Series 50. Cummins 903 V-8 is able to run left handed. I know of at least one 4106 that has a Cummins VT903 running through the V730 directly. Good Luck, TomC